Vitali Klitschko vs. Cristobal Arreola

[whiteathlete33]

I guess I called it right. I mentioned earlier that Kevin Johnson might get a title shot against Vitali. He is just another black hope with no power and no chance.

 

[Liverlips]

Kevin Johnson is a joke. Brian Minto can easily beat this ham & egger.

This will be nothing more than an easy sparring session for Vitali (though Oldlegs Maskaev will not fare much better).

 

[Liverlips]

By the way, the Klitschkos are Ukrainian, not Russian.

 

[StarWars]

By the way, the Klitschkos are Ukrainian, not Russian.

This is true but I've heard that Russia thinks of them as their own and they also like Russia. Kiev and Russia are pretty linked.

 

[white is right]

It is strange to see the argument that the Klitschko brothers aren't big stars because they are not Americans. I have written before on the Forum that it was considered a big boost for boxing when Ingemar Johansson of Sweden won the heavyweight title in 1959. It was usually unspoken but taken for granted that a white heavyweight champion was a good thing, even if he was not American. This is a difference between 1959 and 2009.

I have a question. Suppose the Klitschkos were white Americans. How big a difference would that make?

I know in 82' Cooney would have been a huge star, but boxing was a more mainstream sport then. Around 93' Morrison looked like he could have been a big star and Golota in the late 90's had a similar star appeal. These guys have never gotten much praise(especially Wladimir). I know many heavyweight champions that were popular have had the image of street fighters ie Sullivan, Dempsey and Tyson.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Golota had all the tools and physical skills to be a champion. I thought he beat Byrd and Ruiz and was robbed. His stupidity was an embarrasment to Polish people who supported him despite his antics. Morrison was a powerhouse but lost several big fights including one to Lewis.

 

[sport historian]

It is strange to see the argument that the Klitschko brothers aren't big stars because they are not Americans. I have written before on the Forum that it was considered a big boost for boxing when Ingemar Johansson of Sweden won the heavyweight title in 1959. It was usually unspoken but taken for granted that a white heavyweight champion was a good thing, even if he was not American. This is a difference between 1959 and 2009.

I have a question. Suppose the Klitschkos were white Americans. How big a difference would that make?

I know in 82' Cooney would have been a huge star, but boxing was a more mainstream sport then. Around 93' Morrison looked like he could have been a big star and Golota in the late 90's had a similar star appeal. These guys have never gotten much praise(especially Wladimir). I know many heavyweight champions that were popular have had the image of street fighters ie Sullivan, Dempsey and Tyson.

Yes, Cooney would have been a very big star if he had won. The Klitschkos would probably be bigger if they went out and scored spectacular early KO's in most fights.

 

[space hillbilly]

It is strange to see the argument that the Klitschko brothers aren't big stars because they are not Americans. I have written before on the Forum that it was considered a big boost for boxing when Ingemar Johansson of Sweden won the heavyweight title in 1959. It was usually unspoken but taken for granted that a white heavyweight champion was a good thing, even if he was not American. This is a difference between 1959 and 2009.

I have a question. Suppose the Klitschkos were white Americans. How big a difference would that make?

I know in 82' Cooney would have been a huge star, but boxing was a more mainstream sport then. Around 93' Morrison looked like he could have been a big star and Golota in the late 90's had a similar star appeal. These guys have never gotten much praise(especially Wladimir). I know many heavyweight champions that were popular have had the image of street fighters ie Sullivan, Dempsey and Tyson.

fighter like cooney and morrison were big with the fans. but not with the media.

 

[Bart]

fighter like cooney and morrison were big with the fans. but not with the media.

I agree. If the Klitschko brothers were Americans, the press would still berate them.

 

[Charles Martel]

This first article is from yahoo.com, by Tim Dahlberg.

article by Jewish sportswriter

He bashes Vitali's style, says the fight was boring and the boxing fans don't respect Vitali.

Now here's another one from ESB:

article by non-Jewish sportswriter

This author says: "In an excellent, crowd-pleasing, one-sided battle, WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko impressively retained his title with a 10th-round TKO over game but outclassed No. 1 contender Cristobal Arreola Saturday night at STAPLES Center in Los Angeles, California."

And this by Dan Rafael:

non-Jewish boxing writer Dan Rafael's report on the fight

Klitschko's remarkable comeback from nearly four years in retirement because of injuries continued with yet another dominant performance against a quality opponent. Klitschko, who came out of retirement to dominate Samuel Peter in October 2008 and regain his old alphabet belt, didn't just retain it for the second time against Arreola. He retained with an authoritative beatdown in one of the best performances of his career.

Rafael is fair in his comments about Vitali.

Most fans have respect for Vitali:

Would Vitali be competitive in other eras?

Most people voted for the first option in the poll.

The HBO commentators, Larry Merchant, Jim Lampley, and Manny Steward were likewise fair in their comments during and after the fight (thank God Max Kellerman wasn't working).

The only people who have no respect for the Klitschkos are the Jewish sportswriters/commentators and the people who are influenced by what they write and say.

Edited by: Parody

 

[whiteathlete33]

What is funny though is Vitali actually threw 84 punches per round. That is 30 above the heavyweight average for a round. He was very active. Compare how dominate Vitali is at 38 to how Tyson was at 39 when he lost to a B level fighter in Kevin McBride.Edited by: whiteathlete33

 

[jwhite96]

I believe both Klitschkos could beat Ali. Why? I saw a very good white contender Jerry Quarry, train for the Ron Lyle fight. Both Ali and Frazier beat Quarry several times.However, Quarry was the size of the cruiserweight.So despite how American sports writers disparage the opponents of the Klitschkos, Frazier and Ali fought worse opposition. The Klitschkos would not have even considered someone like Quarry as an opponent. Ali was actually the "Klitschko" of his era. He was actually bigger than almost all his opponents. He was as big as Foreman. Ali also had the advantage of being allowed the hold constantly without ever being penalized. He would land a jab or 2 then hold the opponent to prevent counterpunches. Against the Klitschko's Ali would NOT be have the size advantage he enjoyed during his career. Frazier was 5'1l" and about 215lbs. Either Klitschko would just stand out Frazier's range and bomb him with jabs followed by overhand rights. Edited by: jwhite96

 

[space hillbilly]

tyson is the only fighter in history that is said to have ben in his prime at "24".but tyson just built his big name on "crackhead" in the 80's! but by the 90's the heavyweight were better and tyson got exposed..

 

[whiteathlete33]

He got exposed before that Lost. He was defeated by Buster Douglas.

 

[space hillbilly]

I believe both Klitschkos could beat Ali. Why? I saw a very good white contender Jerry Quarry, train for the Ron Lyle fight. Both Ali and Frazier beat Quarry several times.However, Quarry was the size of the cruiserweight.So despite how American sports writers disparage the opponents of the Klitschkos, Frazier and Ali fought worse opposition. The Klitschkos would not have even considered someone like Quarry as an opponent. Ali was actually the "Klitschko" of his era. He was actually bigger than almost all his opponents. He was as big as Foreman. Ali also had the advantage of being allowed the hold constantly without ever being penalized. He would land a jab or 2 then hold the opponent to prevent counterpunches. Against the Klitschko's Ali would NOT be have the size advantage he enjoyed during his career. Frazier was 5'1l" and about 215lbs. Either Klitschko would just stand out Frazier's range and bomb him with jabs followed by overhand rights.

that right!! most of ali's opponents was around 6'0" 195Lb.. to alis 6'3"PLUS"and 215..now for their[vitali and waldimir]opponents to be the same they would be down about 6'2" 220..but they were bigger than that.....

 

[nopictures]

I actually researched this today because I was getting sick and tired of all the talk about the Klitschko's size advantage being the end-all be-all of their current dominance. Fact is he was at least 15lbs heavier than 13 of his opponents (one of these opponents was a whopping 41lbs lighter, and another was 30, Quarry was 16lbs lighter himself) I'm sure he enjoyed a significant height advantage over many of them as well, but that's too tedious for even me to bother looking up. All the information is available at Boxrec anyway.

In the end though, pointing things out like that are mostly useless, the boxing fan's hatred of whites will annul any and all pro-klitschko sentiment, they will continue to predict either of the Klitschko's to lose again and again until father time catches up and one of them actually does, all so they can say how bad they are and how they knew he would lose all along.

 

[space hillbilly]

He got exposed before that Lost. He was defeated by Buster Douglas.

that's right!

 

[sport historian]

Gerry Cooney was criticized by some before the Holmes fight for not having fought tough competition. Cooney also had a lot of very favorable media coverage. Most of the writers for the boxing magazines wanted Cooney to win the title, from what I could tell. A white heavyweight champion would keep them in business.

 

[space hillbilly]

Gerry Cooney was criticized by some before the Holmes fight for not having fought tough competition. Cooney also had a lot of very favorable media coverage. Most of the writers for the boxing magazines wanted Cooney to win the title, from what I could tell. A white heavyweight champion would keep them in business.

the favorable coverage. i believe was a little reverse-psychology

 

[j41181]

Many stupid boxing fans don't seem to realize it's a VERY DANGEROUS sport. It's HIT and NOT BE HIT, simple as that.

The Klitschko Brothers and Mayweather have mastered that dangerous business, to hit and not be hit.

Look at the great Muhammad Ali, greatest alright and suffering from Parkinson's disease. Many will never realize it, but Ali got pummeled a lot by the likes of Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Holmes....and even from white guys like Cooper, Chuvalo, Bugner, and Quarry.

Guys like the Klitschko Brothers and Mayweather are not dumb enough to allow themselves to get hit just for the sake of these stupid boxing fans.

 

[Alpha Male]

Your absolutely right, Indian White. We are suppossed to root for a Areloa just because he parks his fat Mexican ass in east LA, praises his Mexican American heritage by whispering to Micahel Buffer for such an anncouncment, and lives off the energies of our forefathers.Man, I can't wait for an AMERICAN to root for. The announcers who constantly push that tired, old line seem comical. Larry Merchant and Ron Lampley would rather root for a Mexican than an outstanding, white man who is undoubtedly closer to their genetic lineage than either a black or an hispanic.

 

[white is right]

tyson is the only fighter in history that is said to have ben in his prime at "24".but tyson just built his big name on "crackhead" in the 80's! but by the 90's the heavyweight were better and tyson got exposed..

Mike Tyson has never been penalized for fighting old and shot opponents. Name one prime opponent that he beat? The mythology surrounding Tyson is unbelievable.

 

[sport historian]

Gerry Cooney was criticized by some before the Holmes fight for not having fought tough competition. Cooney also had a lot of very favorable media coverage. Most of the writers for the boxing magazines wanted Cooney to win the title, from what I could tell. A white heavyweight champion would keep them in business.

the favorable coverage. i believe was a little reverse-psychology

During the early 1980's, I read every boxing magazine available. A good many if not most were hoping Cooney would win the title. Even Howard Cosell was hoping Cooney would win. Cosell had him on his ABC interview show and treated Cooney as he would have Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard. Sport magazine had a story on Cooney in which the writer laid out how much money Cooney would make when he was champion.

Bob Waters, of Long Island Newsday, was one of the top boxing writers in the country. Waters was practically a cheerleader for his fellow Long Islander. It was different 25-30 years ago from today. A white heavyweight champion was very much wanted, even in the press.

 

[white is right]

Gerry Cooney was criticized by some before the Holmes fight for not having fought tough competition. Cooney also had a lot of very favorable media coverage. Most of the writers for the boxing magazines wanted Cooney to win the title, from what I could tell. A white heavyweight champion would keep them in business.

the favorable coverage. i believe was a little reverse-psychology

During the early 1980's, I read every boxing magazine available. A good many if not most were hoping Cooney would win the title. Even Howard Cosell was hoping Cooney would win. Cosell had him on his ABC interview show and treated Cooney as he would have Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard. Sport magazine had a story on Cooney in which the writer laid out how much money Cooney would make when he was champion.

Bob Waters, of Long Island Newsday, was one of the top boxing writers in the country. Waters was practically a cheerleader for his fellow Long Islander. It was different 25-30 years ago from today. A white heavyweight champion was very much wanted, even in the press.

When Quarry flattened Shavers in an upset in 73' Ring Magazine had a cover story of Quarry reviving the White Hope and had him dressed as a Leprechaun smoking a cob pipe. Also Bob Waters was later considered conservative(code word for racist) by younger writers. He was one of the old school writers that didn't buy into the Ali mystique.

 

[Westside]

From the mid 60s until Bowe lost to Foul Pole, boxing especially heavyweights were dominated by blacks. Once the Foul Pole crushed Riddick Bowe, it started to open eyes. At the same time the eastern europen fighters saw this and said I am better than that. More importantly they were allowed to fight for money and free! Hence the Klitsikos and an large assortment of former eastern block fighters who dominate the heavyweight ranks today.

The only black heavyweight having a chance to compete with today's supermen is probably a well conditioned George Foreman. His chance would lie in landing a huge bomb. But once the fight went past 7 rounds, he would be sitting duck.

WIS your right, Jerry Quarry would be a small cruiserweight by today's standards. Another thing that undermined Jerry, was his lack of conditioning. In his later fights he showed up soft. He relied too much on his ability rather than putting in the road road to be truely successful.