UFC 70

[White Shogun]

I think it is very wrong of you to post the results in this forum before the fight has been televised here. Very wrong. And without so much as a 'spoiler alert' anywhere to be seen. You could have started your own thread, "UFC 70: Results" and let only those who wanted to know the results without watching the fight view it and discuss it.

I popped in here thinking I'd read more predictions and discussion before the fight, not see the results of a big upset just posted so blandly like any other throw away post. If I wanted to know the results before watching the fight, I'd go to Sherdog or MMA.tv like everybody else.

Would you please reconsider before posting results like this before the fight is televised next time?

Thanks.

EDITED TO ADD: p.s. especially when the fight is going to be shown for FREE on Spike TV.

Edited by: White Shogun

 

[Bart]

I think Cro Cop KO's him, but given the recent number of upsets, who knows?

All right then, why are there so many upsets lately? I've heard other people say they had a bad feeling about the Crocop fight. Is there any funny stuff going on? It seems a loss here and there makes for greater drama. Except for Fedor, no oneis a safe bet. Maybe it's just a damn tough sport and everyone loses from time to time.

 

[White Shogun]

I don't know about drama, Bart. It seems to me that these upsets cost the UFC bigger dollars in the long run than they will earn. Cro Cop v Couture would have been huge. So would GSP v Hughes in a rematch. But now... Couture v Gonzaga? Even with the win over Cro Cop it certainly doesn't have the same luster, does it? Same with Serra v Hughes. Despite the bad blood between these two, I don't think it is compelling as a GSP / Hughes rematch would have been, dollar for dollar anyway.

If anything, this will make the UFC reconsider 'tune up' fights, and instead just match the big names when the time is right. Maybe that's why they didn't waste any more time scheduling Rampage v Chuck. Rampage might have gotten KO'd along the way by the likes of Keith Jardine or something. They'd have lost one of their biggest paydays ever if that had happened.

Personally, I'd have rather they waited to put Cro Cop in against Couture or Tim Sylvia instead of Gonzaga. Now we may never see that match up.

 

[White Shogun]

Spike TV at 9 pm ET via tape delay. The show is almost over now so beware of spoilers.

A prophet thou art.

 

[Triad]

I popped in here thinking I'd read more predictions and discussion before the fight, not see the results of a big upset just posted so blandly like any other throw away post. If I wanted to know the results before watching the fight, I'd go to Sherdog or MMA.tv like everybody else.

I did the same exact thing. Thought I'd catch a few predictions/discussions before the fights aired since I've been avoiding sherdog and mmaweekly this afternoon. I was cautiously scrolling down the new posts and one post f'd up the main event. Lesson learned.


A few thoughts ...
Bisping again dominated a can so it's time for him to move up big time; Werdum/Arlovski was very disappointing; too much adoration for Kongo from Rogan; the undercard bout with Etim/Grice was good. Now I'll watch the suspenseful main event.

 

[Triad]

CroCop/Gonzaga

WOW, Total domination. CroCop only landed one body kick first round, no punches. Gonzaga immediately took him down and elbowed him for the next 3-4 minutes. The ref gave CroCop a break with a bogus stand up even though Gonzaga was very active. And out of nowhere Gonzaga lands a right head kick that knocked CC completely out. He fell with his ankle/ knee mangled under him. I knew very little about Gonzaga but he would have killed CC in another 10-15 seconds. These upsets are great for the sport, IMO.

After the fight Couture entered the ring and looked HUGE.

 

[nhl411]

yeah gonzaga absolutely dominated crocop i was shocked, BUT very impressed by him (and he does look pretty white as well)..he actually fights out of a town real close to me..and yeah captain america looked massive

 

[Poacher]

Man, who could have predicted Gonzaga by head kick? What will UFC do with CC now? They've brought in Nog and Arlovski won again. How about CC and Arlovski? How flexible is CC when he can walk out of the octagon after his leg damn near did a 360.

It is time for Bisping to be given a real opponent.

Grice should have won that friggin' fight.

Kongo is as one dimensional as they come. Rogan was right when he said "Can you imagine what Randy Couture would do to this guy?"

People have different opinions about these kinds of upsets in MMA. Personally, I don't like them. The upper echelon fighters should be reliable. Either that or UFC needs to scrap the whole idea of "tune-up" fights. Styles make fights. So does attitude. Gonzaga was unafraid. Well done on his part.

What did you guys think of the Chuck/ Rampage preview? Should be a barn burner...for a couple of minutes anyway.

 

[JD074]

Unbelievable! I know I shouldn't be shocked, but I am. I'm glad I checked Google News beforehand, it would have been an even worse shock.I was a little more prepared for one helluva disappointment.

Man, just about anything can happen in this sport. There are so many ways to win, and so many damn ways to lose!

Hey guys, why do so many fighters look like they're trying to defend a kick to the body right before they get kicked in the head? Clearly he saw the kick coming.

Except for Fedor, no one is a safe bet.

I'm not even sure about anymore! Now that UFC has bought Pride, we may eventually find out for sure.

Maybe it's just a damn tough sport and everyone loses from time to time.

Exactly. Except for Fedor, everybody has been beaten down. Edited by: JD074

 

[JD074]

What will UFC do with CC now?

Dana White must be so pissed!

It is time for Bisping to be given a real opponent.

Why? He's just getting started. I don't mind bringing up a fighter slowly. That's what they do in boxing. As long as people don't over-hype them (a la Rashad Evans,) I'm fine with it. Why throw a young guy to the wolves before he's ready? And besides, Elvis had him in some trouble with a knee to the face and a submission that, according to Bisping, made his arm pop three times! Bisping was sloppy at times and he needs some improvement. He can't ground and pound everybody.

People have different opinions about these kinds of upsets in MMA. Personally, I don't like them. The upper echelon fighters should be reliable.

I tend to feel that way, too, but I guess it depends on who is getting beat, and who is doing the beating. If Anderson Silva got beat by some guy I never heard of, it wouldn't bother me. And how that would affect the UFC wouldn't be a concern for me. Nick Diaz beating Gomi didn't bother me. But GSP losing to Serra and Cro Cop losing to Gonzaga totally suck! I'm totally biased!

Either that or UFC needs to scrap the whole idea of "tune-up" fights.

I think you and Shogun make a great point. Dana White must be thinking about it. He just lost a huge marquis fight. Edited by: JD074

 

[White_Savage]

Upsets happen, but good Lord.

You ever suspect that probabilities BEND somehow by methods unknown? People get lucky streaks in gambling, and then you have runs of upsets like the one in MMA right now.

I'm also wondering if Couture has pschic power.

 

[Iron]

Got to watch my first UFC in five years and was absolutely gutted by Cro Cops knockout.Putting things in a positive perspective though,he lost to a Brazilian who looks to be of wholly European descent.A star may have been born in Gonzaga,he looks to be a great athlete with size,power and speed who's achieved that breakthrough victory.MMA is different from boxing in that you dont see them coming.This guy maybe every bit as good if not better than the likes of Liddell,Silva,Shogun,Couture etc,though that was'nt the perception before the Cro Cop fight as no one had heard of him.It was also the same with fighters like Fedor,Shogun etc before they achieved breakthrough victory's.Gonzaga's now got his,so hopefully he's given the same respect and elevated into the same elite bracket as them aforementioned fighters.

Cro Cops suffered defeats in the past so hopefully he's able to come back from this and put himself in title contention once more.The emergence of Gonzaga adds to a heavyweight division in the UFC and across the MMA world that's stacked with White talent much like boxing.With this level of talent opperating i don't think theirs any chance of a Black takeover of MMA anytime soon which would no doubt have members of the mainstream media cartels,caste sports proponents pulling their hair out and keeling over through stress.

 

[Kaptain]

When Couture picked an upset, I started thinking uh-oh he may be right. Cro-Cop went with a body kick his very first kick - those are the easiest to catch. As far as the knock-out with about 10 seconds left in the round, I was waiting for Cro-cop to throw the head-kick with little to lose and he never did. Gonzaga just seemed to have his head in the game more than Cro.

The guard defensive really took a beating in this UFC. Nobody was successful from the guard. Looked liked everybody just tried to do a leg wrap and stay on the ground and get pounded. Well the guard defense every be back as something more than just a futile last resort? And why are heel kicks disallowed or for that matter any ground kick/knee? Seems like the UFC is all about elbows these days - which is outlawed in pride. Any opinions? I'd like to get rid of all the restrictions outside of small joint locks and eye-gouging.

 

[White Shogun]

The guard is just a tool to keep you from being mounted, which is a far worse position. An experienced jujitsu player can submit people from the guard, it's just that none of the people who have been using the guard recently know how to do so. Especially not Cro-Cop.

When Gonzaga started beating on Cro-Cop on the ground, I predicted to those watching the fight with me that the ref would stand them up even if Gonzaga stayed active in the guard. They were stood up of course, even while Gonzaga was landing elbows and punches to Cro-Cops dome. I guarantee you if that was Randy Couture doing that to Cro-Cop there would have been NO stand up. The UFC was trying to protect their investment in Cro-Cop; it didn't work.

The dumb thing about this is that the UFC billed this as a fight for the #1 contender spot, to earn a shot at Randy and the HW title. Now, does anyone believe that if Cro-Cop were not in the UFC that Gonzaga would have even got a sniff at the #1 spot? IMO the UFC paints themselves into the corner with this kind of announcement. They should just make the match ups and then you can still salvage a big pay day later if one of the other 'big stars' wins. Of course, I'm offering advice to people who have turned the UFC into a multi-million dollar enterprise, so what do I know?

After giving it some thought, I think we're better off as fans when young, up and coming fighters win like this. I like Arlovski, but he is boring to watch. He has turned into another Tim Syvia. When these guys were hungry they were exciting fighters; but something happens to them on the way to the top and they just become afraid to lose. I'd rather watch Gonzaga vs Randy than AA vs Randy, or a Sylvia vs Randy rematch, that's for sure.

 

[White_Savage]

Etim-Grice and Bisping-Sinosic were entertaining fights. The rest were abit disapointing.

I have no idea what Assuerio Silva's problem was. He was able to take down "Frenchy" Kongo (LOL) repeatedly and get in dominant position, but did nothing. He could have easily rained elbows and GnPed Kongo to a stoppage/deciscion. Maybe he didn't want to sit on top of a "brutha" and pound his face into a hamburger. Foolish, since few Blacks would return the courtesy.

Arvlovski is still suffering from tentativeness that he developed after the Sylvia KO. He as much as admitted this with his appology to the audience. Hopefully this fight has boosted his confidence and he'll get the killer instinct back.

I still don't think Gonzaga is truly on the same level as CroCop, Gonzaga just camed uber-prepared and confident and Mirko took him lightly. Taking a CroCop kick to trap the leg and get the takedown, and going with a high kick out of no where are incredibly bold, risky, and surprising strategies, and that's what gave him the win. On the good side, by the brown hair, ruddy complexion, and copious body hair, Gonzaga looks to be mostly Aryan genetically. And despite the line Couture is putting out, I think "the Natural" now stands a much better chance of retaining the belt in his defense, which is great thing for MMA and his legacy.

Couture always looked much better as a HW. He's naturally mesomorphic and had to cut weight to the poing of being extremely rawboned to make LHW.

I'm not really happy about Serra's comment about Hughes, or the way MMA fans in general have been brainwashed into labely Matt Hughes as a "dick".
Hughes is TEN times more polite and reserved than Guillard, Rampage, or even a bunch of other White fighters. All of them trash talk to a much greater extent and are considered "brash", "colorful". I guess a non-tattooed blonde farm boy is just way too White to be heroized, even in a venure slightly outside of the mainstream like MMA.

 

[freedom1]

I don't like Serra or Hughes. I want to see GSP get back up there.

There's pic of Gonzaga's face on Sherdog right now, and yes, he looks very white.

 

[Triad]

Bisping isn't a rookie, he's 14-0 and held a light heavy weight belt in the UK. He started MMA as a 15 year old and although he laid off for a few years he's been far superior to anyone of his UFC opponents. Bisping/ Evans would be a good one.

One reason the Pit Bull may not be as hungry or as hairy as he once was.
Arlovski's lady

Hughes does come off as arrogant and he is generally despised on most MMA message boards. His success (their jealous) and demeanor (he doesn't give a @#$%) have a lot to do with that. But I hope he slams Serra.

The UFC refs play too big a role in the fight. Hughes was allowed to take Lytle down and hold him for three rounds and nothing was said. Couture/Sylva had similar moments. Yet Gonzaga/CC are stood up and even Kongo/Silva. They need a set guideline to determine when to stand up fighters.

 

[White Shogun]

They need a set guideline to determine when to stand up fighters.

Maybe a set time limit? Two minutes? The 'non-activity' isn't working, because Gonzaga was working over Cro Cop from the guard big time. He was certainly more active on the ground than Arlovski and Werdum were on their feet.

Maybe they should invent a rule to make fighters go to the ground if they won't push the fight on their feet.

Or instead maybe they should stop interpreting the rules to help out the 'name' fighter, before MMA turns into the NBA.

 

[White_Savage]

The only reason people "despise" Hughes is because the UFC has essentially decided to give him a sort of "villian" role, and because a disturbing percentage of MMA fans fall into the wannabe HipHop negrophile category, who give verbal fellatio to the non-White fighters, who like the tattooed freak pretend-ghetto White fighters. For them a decent, normal, Heart land Aemrican with tremendous talent is the anti-Christ.

 

[freedom1]

The Hughes/Serra match up really does have a sort of city vs country boy dynamic.

I found having to listen to Serra's big yap constantly during the reality show to be quite irritating, but all of the country boys are better than everyone else is irritating too. They're both really self-righteous guys

I think I'm leaning towards Hughes, but not by much. Again, I'll be glad when GSP gets back up there.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

I'll be pulling for Hughes against Serra. He's a country boy like me & I love his work ethic & blue-collar mentality. I'm thinking he takes his strap back. Bisping looked solid. I was disappointed that CroCop got KTFO'd, but I do think he took Gonzaga lightly. The fights weren't the best, but hey...I'll take as much "free" MMA as I can get!

 

[JD074]

Bisping isn't a rookie, he's 14-0 and held a light heavy weight belt in the UK. He started MMA as a 15 year old and although he laid off for a few years he's been far superior to anyone of his UFC opponents. Bisping/ Evans would be a good one.

14 fights isn't that much, especially given the level of competition in the UK. He made his pro debut in 2004, so he hasn't been fighting very long. As far as I can tell from his record, Elvis is the best fighter he's fought so far; if that's the case, then this fight was a small but positive step in his progression.

Bisping/ Evans could be interesting, but I suspect that Evans would take him down and "lay and pray" for most of the fight.

The UFC refs play too big a role in the fight. Hughes was allowed to take Lytle down and hold him for three rounds and nothing was said. Couture/Sylva had similar moments. Yet Gonzaga/CC are stood up and even Kongo/Silva. They need a set guideline to determine when to stand up fighters.

I didn't see the Hughes/ Lytle fight, but Couture was plenty active on the ground, IMO. Silva wasn't active enough, so I'm fine with those stand-ups. I agree with you guys that it should definitely be about activity, and the refs should be competent enough to understand the difference between Silva (he didn't do jack sh*t on the ground!) and Gonzaga (very effective ground and pound.) Herb Dean needs a refresher course on this.Edited by: JD074

 

[Guest]

Looks like Cro Cop underestimated an opponent again did'nt he learn anything from the McDonald & Randleman debacle ? .Edited by: Turner

 

[Sean]

Looks like Cro Cop underestimated an opponent again did'nt he learn anything from the McDonald & Randleman debacle ? .

He learned well enough to tap out Randleman in the rematch.

He and McDonald only fought once, and it's true he lost, but McDonald was twice dominated by Peter Aerts.

 

[Guest]

Looks like Cro Cop underestimated an opponent again did'nt he learn anything from the McDonald & Randleman debacle ? .

He learned well enough to tap out Randleman in the rematch.

He and McDonald only fought once, and it's true he lost, but McDonald was twice dominated by Peter Aerts.

Yes he tapped out Randleman in the rematch. He also said that he would never underestimate an opponent again after the randleman debacle.


Cro Cop is a great fighter but he has a history of underestimating opponents when things go well for a time he has paid the price 3 times now for this.


What does Aerts have to do with a Cro Cop discussion ?.