UFC 54

[White Shogun]

What can you say about this event? It was awesome. Some observations:

Thanks to Brian Gassoway, for showing us that no matter how cut or ripped you may be, it doesn't mean that you're a great fighter.

Thanks to Randy Couture, Mike Van Arsdale, and Tra Tilligman (despite the KO), for showing us that age is just a number. Every one of these men is 40+.

Special note of thanks to Tra, for showing what value determination in overcoming obstacles and disabilities (for those who don't know, he is missing his entire right pectoral muscle and still fights MMA.)

Somebody in Frank Trigg's training camp should suggest he work on his defense against the rear naked choke. Thats at least three fights that I know of which Trigg has lost to that technique.

Jeremy Horn has big heart. I know, I know, its a cliche. Bue every time he got knocked down, once he was back on his feet, he STILL pressed the action and went after Chuck.

The match between Lindland and Doerksen was the best pure jui-jitsu / grappling match of the night. They put on a great technical show.

And thanks to James Irvin, for his flying knee to the head comeback at 5 seconds into Round 2, keeping true the adage of our own White Savage, always bet on the lighter-skinned fighter. Helluva knockout.

 

[White_Savage]

Yeah, I second the awesomeness. We all congregated at our BJJ instructor's house to watch it.

My opinion of our womenfolk has gone up a notch or two-lots of girls from the class were there, some of the guy's wives and girlfriends. I'm seeing women that have never liked any sport before get into this. Could just be because these women's natural admiration for WHITE males who have strength and prowess hasn't been satisfied, and most of them just don't desire the parade of monkoids they feed us in most sports.

Yeah, I DID poke some fun of Diego Sanchez for his Mexican-Taco stand fight music

, but I was rooting for him all the way. Guy is paler than I am, after all.

Chuck has never had a braver opponent, bar none, no other human being has ever taken that many licks from him and not gone to sleep.

Now there's only one loss left for the Iceman to avenge, and that'll be the sweetest of all, when he knocks out that mouthy australopithicus "Rampage" Jackson. (Chuck previously lost to Jackson, on the ground'n'pound, but if Couture, Ortiz and Horn can't take down the new and improved Iceman, fat chance for "Rampage")

Lindland and Doerksen was pretty awesome, and some American fans need to get a clue. One of my buddies (not a grappler) was annoying the %@@%%@%^# out of me by groaning every time a fight went to the ground and apparently didn't think anything was happening during the Lindland-Doerksen fight, which as you say was pretty much constant action for anyone with an eye to see.

And you better believe I was jumping up and down and praising all the North-Gods when Irving made yet another MMA event a big fat goose egg for the ********.

 

[White_Savage]

"Thanks to Brian Gassoway, for showing us that no matter how cut or ripped you may be, it doesn't mean that you're a great fighter."

Amazing isn't it? One sub-species of humans evolve in a climate where they've never had to face a hard winter, causing them to carry slightly less body-fat and much less intelligence. Then the fact that you can see the bumps on their muscularity a little better gets parlayed into reams of BS by racist idiots about superior physiques, "fast twitch muscle fibers", and other crap.

 

[White Shogun]

Lindland and Doerksen was pretty awesome, and some American fans need to get a clue. One of my buddies (not a grappler) was annoying the %@@%%@%^# out of me by groaning every time a fight went to the ground and apparently didn't think anything was happening during the Lindland-Doerksen fight, which as you say was pretty much constant action for anyone with an eye to see.

Its funny, when I watch these fights with guys who've never trained in grappling, I'm "Oh! He's got him! No, no he reversed! Oh MAN! Did you see that he almost had him with the keylock! Look out for the ankle get out of there!", while the rest of the guys just sort of give me strange looks. I don't mind explaining whats happening but if you turn away at the wrong time, you're likely to miss the KO or tap out.

Like Irvin over Martin, for instance!!

If Diego were a littel more chiseled, he'd look like the Greek statues of old, with that curly hair and goatee. He for one doesn't keep the shaved head, like so many other MMA'ers do, and as has been mentioned on the forum here is part of 'white heritage.' P.S. Spare the homo remarks, alright? LOL

I gotta admit though, when they stood across from each other I was a little worried for Sanchez. Gassoway supposedly had some MMA experience, and looked more fit. He even caught Diego with a few good shots, but didn't matter. Funny thing is, I didn't think the ground n' pound Diego put on Gassoway was that bad, compared to some I have seen. And he still tapped out.

 

[White Shogun]

WS, you hear or read anything about Tra Tilligman yet? They carried him out on a stretcher, neck brace and everything. I've gone to some of the usual sites but no one has anything up about him. It was pretty brutal.

Martin was on oxygen, too, before they cut away.

Nasty.

 

[White Shogun]

Could just be because these women's natural admiration for WHITE males who have strength and prowess hasn't been satisfied, and most of them just don't desire the parade of monkoids they feed us in most sports.

I think this observation deserves its own post.

I think if there were more strong, white role models available, white women wouldn't be so interested in black men in the first place.

Biologically speaking, women still want tough, virile, strong, powerful men. Unfortunately for us, the media portrays only BLACKS as men having those qualities. It is so bad, IMO, that you rarely ever even see a strong white hero in Hollywood anymore, let alone in sports or elsewhere. The biggest baddasses in Hollywood now are Wesley Snipes and Denzel Washington.

The continued success of white men in MMA, as it becomes more publicized, will go a long way in fighting those stereotypes. And I for one do believe MMA will eventually surpass boxing, for two reasons: 1) they're way more exciting; and 2) I think white people in reality are starving for successful white athletes.

Sorry to meander along here. Comments welcome!

 

[White_Savage]

Nah, that's the heartening thing there Shogun, most White women don't want an African in their bed, despite the agit-prop. Nature triumps over nurture!

 

[Colonel Callan]

I'm hoping MMA can reach a wider audience - but it's going to be tough
with all those pesky white guys taking out the brave dark folks with so
much regularity.

54 was a great show. Horn definitely has a pair that clangs.

BTW - what was it with Chuck when he fought Rampage in Japan? Couple
of guys have told me he was worn out, jet lagged, etc. But he made
Rampage look better than he is, because I've seen Quinton get his ass
handed to him by guys who aren't in the Iceman's league. Maybe it was
just one of those nights - in MMA anyone can get clopped, that's for sure.
Any thoughts?

I remember Diego's family on TUF - they did look part white, he looks
part white. Hey, if a guy is good, he's good. However, the media fawns
over black and brown athletes, so I'm wondering how his career will
progress 'publicity wise' if he pans out as a top gun in the UFC.

 

[White_Savage]

Diego's very "Hispanic" culturally, as his Taco Bell fight music would imply so the putrid pundits ought to love him. Don't get me wrong-I'm not hung up on the guy myself, first time he fights someone with blue eyes, I'm rooting for them. But his genes are pretty obviously mostly white, so every time he takes out a '*****, he strikes another blow against bullsh*t stereotypes.

Irving vrs. Martin-NOT a fluke btw. Martin was was going for the takedown with lousy form, bending over at the waist too much without really changing his level and just asking for a knee. Irving was really on the ball to immediately come out with that counter. So much for blacks having better "improvisation" skills, to hell with you Steve Sailer.

"My leg hurts where I hit him in the teeth"-James Irvin. Beautiful!

 

[Colonel Callan]

Steve Sailer is so scared of being called a racist he always tries to come
up with something, anything, to praise blacks, to give them a perceived
edge in some area. If blacks had better 'real time' thinking ability, the
NBA guys at the Olympics or World's would have adjusted quickly to the
sneaky Europeans and beaten them, right? He brings up jazz music as an
example - he's totally unaware (or maybe he isn't) that what he thinks is
improvisation is actually rehearsed on many occasions - I know, as I had
to sit through rehearsed "improv" sessions by various jazz musicians
during a job I used to have years ago - guys like K. Burrel, G. Benson, M.
Davis. This is one reason I detest jazz. It's not only noise in many cases,
it's also built on bullsh*t.

I agree, Irving wasn't a fluke. For some people, it's only a fluke when the
'wrong guy' wins

. You know what I mean.

 

[White Shogun]

I somehow created a double post when I attempted to edit this one.

See below for the edited post.

Sorry 'bout that! Edited by: White Shogun

 

[White Shogun]

Martin was was going for the takedown with lousy form, bending over at the waist too much without really changing his level and just asking for a knee.

If I remember correctly, I think Irvin mentioned in the post-fight interview that he noticed that Martin was doing this same thing, either in another fight or in the first round at least, and was prepared to use the counter (knee-to-the-teeth

) when Martin attempted his takedown.

 

[JD074]

This was the first PPV I've ever bought! And it was worth it. Chuck is so good. I'm by no means an expert, but it has to be his take down defense which separates him from the rest. Other strikers simply get taken down to the ground and they're finished. Of course his power is phenomenal as well.

BTW, they showed the Liddell/ Jackson fight on FSN last night and Liddell looked very lethargic and uninspired. I believe it was Dana White who kept saying, "He's not following the game plan, he's not using his kicks, not following the game plan," etc. No doubt we would see a different Ice Man if they fought again.

The French Canadian who beat Trigg looked great. Looks like a re-match with Hughes. Bring it on. Couture came back in dominant fashion. I wonder what kind of a boxer Tim Sylvia would be. He seems to have more of a traditional boxing stance, as opposed to the more open stance of guys like Liddell. He's 6-8, long reach, great jab, and power. Would be interesting to see.

Man, Irving's flying knee was just incredible. Great timing. He outsmarted that guy, for sure. Brutal. This is a man's sport, no doubt about it. Edited by: JD074

 

[Guest]

i live in vegas and i used to go to every UFC. but they cost too much now. MGM wanted $200 for this show.

you guys should not kid yourselves though. black men would take over the UFC if the money was there.

 

[Kaptain]

i live in vegas and i used to go to every UFC. but they cost too much now. MGM wanted $200 for this show.

you guys should not kid yourselves though. black men would take over the UFC if the money was there.

You mean they will start taking over when it goes to what? 1,000 dollars a show? I wouldn't hold your breath many of the top black wrestlers have already tried the UFC and haven't been able to beat the best. Maybe its all that expensive and complicated equipment in the UFC that keeps poor blacks from participating. I've never seen an octagon in the ghetto have you Jody?Edited by: Kaptain Poop

 

[White Shogun]

you guys should not kid yourselves though. black men would take over the UFC if the money was there.

How much $$ will it take? There aren't any brothers in the Ghetto that would love to have a six-figure income right now? Oh, I forget, most of those guys already make more than that dealing crack, right?

And what makes you say that black men would take over? More fast-twitch muscle fibers? Better hip flexibility? Improvisational jazz? Better sprint speed?

In all seriousness, can you give a reasoned answer to this question?

 

[Gary]

I believe Pugnus is back as Jody. Time to ban him Don before he even get's started!! There is lots of money in space travel so when is Niger going to put up there first rocket?

 

[Colonel Callan]

The only way blacks could take over the UFC is a) fights are fixed or b) the
rules are altered to favor thick skulls period. Blacks generally don't have
near the pure strength of whites (Hell, find one black Matt Hughes' size
who is near as strong) and their endurance is usually awful - you don't
get a rest every three minutes as you do in boxing. Blacks know all this
too. They just don't like to admit when whites or anyone else outguns
them in a sport. Oh, they can have a champ here and there, like Maurice
Smith, anyone can win a fight or two. But to be consistently great at this
sport requires more than a long reach and a skull that is an inch thick.
The blacks are feeling the pressure, as you can see from remarks made
about the rise of European heavyweight fighters. Some if it might be due
to the fact that the heavyweights are now so big, the strength of the
whites is able to overcome the skull density and narrow jaw attachments
of the black fighters.

 

[JD074]

Some if it might be due to the fact that the heavyweights are now so big, the strength of the whites is able to overcome the skull density and narrow jaw attachments of the black fighters.

I wonder if the small gloves also help with that. Time and time again black UFC fighters get knocked down with the same strikes that get everybody else. Also, the fight is generally over after the fighter has been "concussed," so it's not like a black fighter is going to get rocked three or four times and stand up and continue fighting.

I wonder what would happen if boxers used the same gloves that UFC fighters use; if blacks would still have an advantage with their skulls/ jaws. Or if the small gloves would allow a good punch to take out anybody, regardless of race, which is what seems to be the case in the UFC.

I would also love to see a (hypothetical) study showing the rates of knock outs between white European boxers and their non-white opponents, to see if there are really any differences there. It wouldn't surprise me if much of the difference between white American boxers and others is simply that the talent pool is so much smaller, therefore they're not as skilled, therefore they get knocked out more often. But it could be a combination of things: physiology, gloves, rules, skill/ talent pool....

 

[White_Savage]

I have my doubts about the skull theory. Sure, theres some difference there, but Marciano K.Od plenty-and he weighed 185 lbs soaking wet. There's been too many whites with iron chins too, if anything they seem harder to knock out. Maybe thick skulls help with not getting as woozy after repeated skull jars from padded hands, as opposed to resisting clean knock-out shots from bare fists. But really guys, if you just do a little investigation you'll realize the situation with boxing for so long was 90% socio-economic and caste system.

 

[White_Savage]

BTW, they showed the Liddell/ Jackson fight on FSN last night and Liddell looked very lethargic and uninspired. I believe it was Dana White who kept saying, "He's not following the game plan, he's not using his kicks, not following the game plan," etc. No doubt we would see a different Ice Man if they fought again.

I saw that. All I could say was....

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH CHUCK?</font>

 

[Colonel Callan]

I have no doubt about the skull 'theory', it's fact. But it's also based on
averages, that's all. Blacks (and some other non-whites) actually do have
thicker, denser skull bones, and narrower jaw attachments. I can
remember when Hagler and Duran were getting ready to fight, and the
MRIs showed Duran and Hagler with 1" thick skulls - and Hagler's muscle
over the temple area was 1" thick (as opposed to 1/4" for the average
man). Some less PC physiology folks point out the narrow jaw attachment
is due to smaller brains and so on. Anyway, there is that flip side in
which whites with iron jaws seem to have the hardest noggins of all.
Marciano of course, LaMotta, Tex Cobb couldn't be hurt and so on. Yes,
socio-economic factors come into play, but so does the caste-system.
This is why we've had champs like Johnny Bumphus, Mark Breland, Ali
being called "The Greatest" and dozens more examples. I do pay close
attention to boxing, but enjoy MMA much more, as a lot of the
competitions seem to be unaffected by 'the campaign' against whites for
the most part.
Edited by: Colonel Callan

 

[JD074]

Maybe thick skulls help with not getting as woozy after repeated skull jars from padded hands, as opposed to resisting clean knock-out shots from bare fists.

That's what I was wondering about. I'm by no means an expert on human physiology, and I don't know what the actual "knock out rates" are among boxers of different races. So I'm just speculating about the whole thing. There seem to be a number of possible explanations, as I mentioned earlier: physiology, gloves, rules, and skill level/ talent pool among the various races.

 

[White_Savage]

Colonel,
I believe you about the average skull thickness difference, I'm just skeptical about how much of a difference it makes. Blacks get knocked out all the time, by both Whites and other blacks. For instance, yesterday on ESPN there was an old bout where Lou Saverese knocked Tim Witherspoon down-with a punch right to the top of the head. Coversely, Witherspoon gave Savarese his Sunday punch in the 1st Round, right on the jaw, whipped Savarese's head around, but didn't look like it even stunned him too much.

Fact of the matter is, I think there may be some racial slotting going on in boxing...it's assumed that the blacks will be quick and slick and good white boxers will all be tough sluggers, therefore that's probably what they get developed as, any White who has attributes better suited to a different style simply doesn't get the right training. When 90% of the kids taking up boxing are Black and Hispanic, that easily explains why 90% of pro boxers are black and Hispanic. Even John Entine says the main reason for the lack of Whites in boxing is largely sociological, citing our superior upper-body strength and endurance as making up for our supposedly inferior speed and reflexes (Which is a big damn joke, as I've proved elswhere, but that's digressing..)

You know I was watching Quarry-Frazier the other night, Quarry I guess being the best white HW from his period, and it struck me-this guy's physique nor his skills were all that impressive. Looked like he got off a bar-stool and into the ring. And he was a top contender who by definition could knock out 90% of the ******** on the planet!

 

[Colonel Callan]

Good points, WS. Entine is ridiculous. FYI: All testing on reaction has
shown whites to have faster reactions than blacks. There is no doubt
some slotting going on - and I have felt that on many an occasion a white
who looks like a threat was derailed by whatever method(s) could be
used, including slotting as in the wonderful world of the NFL. I've
mentioned the difference in upper (and in fact lower) body strength
before. If whites hit boxing in the same numbers as blacks and browns
who are ENCOURAGED at all levels, there would be a vast change in short
order.

Quarry was an interesting case, and people should note that he fought
many if not most of the top fighters while enduring a severe disadvantage
in weight. He was simply a very tough guy.