Toby Gerhart
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In a fair world he's a tailback/feature-back with anything from 4.49-4.55...his football weight is 235; his baseball weight is 225...does he report to Indy Combine weighing somwhere in between??
I'll be interested to see Blount & Dixon there at the combinetoo...I'm sure all the experts would like to havethem as feature-blacks...
The Chargers would then be my favorite AFC Team with Gerhart, Hester, Weddle & Gregory...
I'll be interested to see Blount & Dixon there at the combinetoo...I'm sure all the experts would like to havethem as feature-blacks...
The Chargers would then be my favorite AFC Team with Gerhart, Hester, Weddle & Gregory...
Jack Lambert
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I have to throttle the idiot who wrote the comment on the end of this.
From Rotoworld:
If that's the case retard, let's put Slowshon Moreno, Beanie Wells, Brandon Jacobs, and every other black RB that can't break off a 4.5 40 at fullback shall we? That will include EVERY single black RB that doesn't run below a 4.5 at the combine. Since when does a RB have to run 4.43 forty to be an NFL RB. I guess only if you're white....
From Rotoworld:
If that's the case retard, let's put Slowshon Moreno, Beanie Wells, Brandon Jacobs, and every other black RB that can't break off a 4.5 40 at fullback shall we? That will include EVERY single black RB that doesn't run below a 4.5 at the combine. Since when does a RB have to run 4.43 forty to be an NFL RB. I guess only if you're white....
Jack Lambert said:
I noticed that too and had the same reaction. If you're White and 235 pounds and won the Doak Walker Award you still have to run below 4.5 or else be "ticketed for fullback." Yeah, the NFL is just full of 235 pound black running backs who also run below 4.5. I wonder what the reaction would be if year after year every black college quarterback who showed some ability was"ticketed" by the media and "draft experts" for another position unless, say, he scored a 35 on his Wonderlic test to compensate for Whites' mysterious natural ability to see the field better. Edited by: Don Wassall
from nbcsports.com:
NEED FOR SPEED
Stanford RB Toby Gerhart
A once-in-a-generation athlete, Gerhart wasn't just the 2009 Pac-10 Player of the Year, Heisman runner-up, and 1,871-yard rusher for the Cardinal football team. Gerhart was a 105-game starting outfielder for Stanford baseball, batting .275 and logging a .995 fielding percentage in three seasons. Gerhart has chosen the gridiron over the diamond, but questions remain about his long speed.
And fair or not, the fact that Gerhart is white, plays tailback, and tore his ACL in 2007 will be held against him. Should he run in the 4.6s, NFL teams may project the 6-1, 235-pounder as a fullback. Something in the 4.4 range could solidify Gerhart as a second-round pick. Perhaps no draft-eligible's stock hinges as greatly on his 40 time.
link
NEED FOR SPEED
Stanford RB Toby Gerhart
A once-in-a-generation athlete, Gerhart wasn't just the 2009 Pac-10 Player of the Year, Heisman runner-up, and 1,871-yard rusher for the Cardinal football team. Gerhart was a 105-game starting outfielder for Stanford baseball, batting .275 and logging a .995 fielding percentage in three seasons. Gerhart has chosen the gridiron over the diamond, but questions remain about his long speed.
And fair or not, the fact that Gerhart is white, plays tailback, and tore his ACL in 2007 will be held against him. Should he run in the 4.6s, NFL teams may project the 6-1, 235-pounder as a fullback. Something in the 4.4 range could solidify Gerhart as a second-round pick. Perhaps no draft-eligible's stock hinges as greatly on his 40 time.
link
and another one from Sporting News:
Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford
No one denies Gerhart is tough, physical and aggressive, with the playing strength, balance and agility to run through contact. He will be drafted before the fourth round regardless of his Combine performance, but if he demonstrates big-play speed in Indy, then he could move up draft boards substantially. Gerhart may be a straight-line athlete, but we have a feeling he will surprise people by running the 40 in the low 4.5s or high 4.4s, which could result in him being a late-first-round pick.
link
and the draftdaddy's comment about these 2 items:
DD.comment: We aren't quite sure why Silva (and many others) insist that Gerhart and Dixon must run sub-4.6's to avoid being lumped in as blocking fullbacks at the next level. We usually have access to the "official" Combine numbers that the N.F.L. records each spring and can tell our readers the average running back at the Combine usually runs in the 4.6 range. Last year (2009), for example, the exact averages were 4.56/4.57 hand-timed 40's for the tailbacks. 4.62 was the average electronic time....The first running back selected in the 2009 draft, Knowshon Moreno, 40 times were as follows: Hand-timed 40's ranged from 4.50 to 4.59. Electronic 40 times were 4.62 & 4.68...Chris "Beanie" Wells hand-timed 40's ranged from 4.52 to 4.57, while his electronic times were 4.59 & 4.60. Shonn Greene, who had a strong rookie season for the New York Jets, proved a sub 4.6 is not a must: His hand-timed 40's ranged from 4.62 to 4.71. His electronic 40 times were 4.65 & 4.68....Also, Kahlil Bell and Gartrell Johnson did not run all that fast in Indy, but still got carries as N.F.L. tailbacks in 2009. Bell's ET 40's were 4.78 & 4.79, while Johnson's official ET's were 4.81 & 4.86.
Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford
No one denies Gerhart is tough, physical and aggressive, with the playing strength, balance and agility to run through contact. He will be drafted before the fourth round regardless of his Combine performance, but if he demonstrates big-play speed in Indy, then he could move up draft boards substantially. Gerhart may be a straight-line athlete, but we have a feeling he will surprise people by running the 40 in the low 4.5s or high 4.4s, which could result in him being a late-first-round pick.
link
and the draftdaddy's comment about these 2 items:
DD.comment: We aren't quite sure why Silva (and many others) insist that Gerhart and Dixon must run sub-4.6's to avoid being lumped in as blocking fullbacks at the next level. We usually have access to the "official" Combine numbers that the N.F.L. records each spring and can tell our readers the average running back at the Combine usually runs in the 4.6 range. Last year (2009), for example, the exact averages were 4.56/4.57 hand-timed 40's for the tailbacks. 4.62 was the average electronic time....The first running back selected in the 2009 draft, Knowshon Moreno, 40 times were as follows: Hand-timed 40's ranged from 4.50 to 4.59. Electronic 40 times were 4.62 & 4.68...Chris "Beanie" Wells hand-timed 40's ranged from 4.52 to 4.57, while his electronic times were 4.59 & 4.60. Shonn Greene, who had a strong rookie season for the New York Jets, proved a sub 4.6 is not a must: His hand-timed 40's ranged from 4.62 to 4.71. His electronic 40 times were 4.65 & 4.68....Also, Kahlil Bell and Gartrell Johnson did not run all that fast in Indy, but still got carries as N.F.L. tailbacks in 2009. Bell's ET 40's were 4.78 & 4.79, while Johnson's official ET's were 4.81 & 4.86.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
I'm willing to be at least half the running backs in the league run a 4.5 or worse. So if Toby did run a 4.5 how does that make him a fullback? The double standard just continues to progress.
I keep hearing about his knee injury on various sites and they list it as an ACL. It was a PCL injury which is totally different than an ACL, it is the least serious for runningbacks, does not affect their ability to make cuts and usually doesn't lead to future problems like an ACL. I guess they are using anything to make him look bad.
Toby is going to come to the combine at 220/225 lbs. He is going to break off a 4.44 to 4.47 forty. He will excell in the rest of the skills, but make no mistake the forty is key to his status as 1st rounder and big dollar.
If Toby runs in the above range and is not selected in the lower 1st round to top 2nd round, a well placed source by Toby's management needs to sound the alarm and call racism.
If Toby runs in the above range and is not selected in the lower 1st round to top 2nd round, a well placed source by Toby's management needs to sound the alarm and call racism.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Westside said:
I highly doubt any white player would call racism. For blacks it's the norm to blame racism every time something doesn't go their way. They like others to take responsibilities for their flaws. A white player who plays the race card basically assures himself that his NFL days are long gone.
ok, so now that media realized that Toby might pull 4.4 off, they changed the angle, this is from the rotoworld:
Citing two sources, Yahoo's Jason Cole reports that Stanford RB Toby Gerhart's medical checkup at the Scouting Combine will hurt his draft stock.
The physical is reportedly "likely to feature a number of lingering injuries from his hard-running college days." Cole goes on to say that the injuries will be "enough to drop Gerhart out of the first round," but he was never projected that high anyway. It's worth noting that Gerhart tore his ACL in 2007. He was also a 105-game starter on the Stanford baseball team, leaving the 6'1/235-pound outfielder/tailback susceptible to additional wear and tear.
Source: Yahoo Sports
Citing two sources, Yahoo's Jason Cole reports that Stanford RB Toby Gerhart's medical checkup at the Scouting Combine will hurt his draft stock.
The physical is reportedly "likely to feature a number of lingering injuries from his hard-running college days." Cole goes on to say that the injuries will be "enough to drop Gerhart out of the first round," but he was never projected that high anyway. It's worth noting that Gerhart tore his ACL in 2007. He was also a 105-game starter on the Stanford baseball team, leaving the 6'1/235-pound outfielder/tailback susceptible to additional wear and tear.
Source: Yahoo Sports
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
The combine is this week so we just have to wait and see. At least the waiting is almost over. I wouldn't worry about his past injuries too much.
I need to email that guy. PCL much different from ACL. They are spreading false information
"The PCL's main job is to prevent posterior (backward) translation of the tibia (shinbone) on the femur (leg bone). This is the opposite job of the ACL which prevents anterior translation of the tibia"
"PCL which can be healed with time and anti-inflammitories, keeps the knee from hyper-extending" totally different from ACL "A torn ACL is a large setback for a lineman, and can be career ending for a running back. Without a solid ACL, you cannot pivot or cut".
It was a minor tear which didn't require surgery, he rehabbed it and has been playing for 2 years as a workhorse back, he is no more likely to get another pcl injury than any other back in the league.
I don't know what other "lingering injuries" he could have but it sounds made up. The PCL injury is not lingering, he took many hits to the knees last year (the cause of pcl injury is violent collison to a bent knee, most common cause car accident, knees hitting the dashboard, very rare in football)
I hope they don't try to use this as an excuse for him to fall to the 7th round, like Luke Staley.Edited by: dwid
"The PCL's main job is to prevent posterior (backward) translation of the tibia (shinbone) on the femur (leg bone). This is the opposite job of the ACL which prevents anterior translation of the tibia"
"PCL which can be healed with time and anti-inflammitories, keeps the knee from hyper-extending" totally different from ACL "A torn ACL is a large setback for a lineman, and can be career ending for a running back. Without a solid ACL, you cannot pivot or cut".
It was a minor tear which didn't require surgery, he rehabbed it and has been playing for 2 years as a workhorse back, he is no more likely to get another pcl injury than any other back in the league.
I don't know what other "lingering injuries" he could have but it sounds made up. The PCL injury is not lingering, he took many hits to the knees last year (the cause of pcl injury is violent collison to a bent knee, most common cause car accident, knees hitting the dashboard, very rare in football)
I hope they don't try to use this as an excuse for him to fall to the 7th round, like Luke Staley.Edited by: dwid
celticdb15
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Toby's been on every list within the last few days of players that need to prove themselves. somehow the media is once again making sh*t up to keep the white fans from getting too hopeful. Toby doesn't need to prove sh*t for his 40 in reality. But in order for him to start in modern day NFL as a white man he must perform like aSuper human and cannot have any flaws. Edited by: celticdb15
JReb1
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whiteathlete33 said:
Chris Doering called out the Caste system when he got jobbed in the draft as 2 WR's on his team were hyped 1st round picks and he wasn't even though he was better than them. He took hell for saying there's bias against White athletes and the media denied any. Chris still got to play in the NFL but never really had a chance to take advantage of his abilities.
If Toby gets jobbed by the Caste system he has nothing to lose by calling them out because he's a Stanford graduate and he can always play MLB which is Caucasian friendlier.
Edited by: JReb1
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
You make some valid points JReb but where is he going to make more money? Definitely in the NFL.
I think they are just trying to do whatever to make sure he falls in the draft, then when a team drafts him in the 3rd, fans arent going to be screaming for him to start at halfback because a 3rd round pick isn't as valuable as a 1st or 2nd.
I mean come saying he has lingering injuries and saying he had a acl instead of pcl and this: "He was also a 105-game starter on the Stanford baseball team, leaving the 6'1/235-pound outfielder/tailback susceptible to additional wear and tear."
BASEBALL CAUSING ADDITIONAL WEAR AND TEAR?!?! Come on lol, Hes not like a typical afflete that cant handle exercise year round. I thought staying in shape all year long actually prolongs your life and keeps you healthy longer? Most people are made to be active all year long. He was injured on a fluke, PCL injuries are rare, and not likely to happen again, and I said it before, its not like an ACL where it affects your ability to cut and other stuff a RB has to do. He didn't even have surgery, he just rehabbed it for the year.
Its not like he declined during the year, he actually got better as the season went along. Toby is going to be medically cleared as being fine, hes going to run in the 4.4 range and all of these haters can't do crap about it. Hes going to be drafted no later than the 2nd. The guy is in great shape, he said he gets about a week of rest from sports a year. You can't do that with lingering injuries, if he had some sort of problem he would have given up one of the sports.
If Toby were black hed be guaranteed to be picked in the top 5. Two sport athlete (remember how hyped up Bo Jackson was?) rushed for 1800+ yards 27 tds. Went to a school that was 1-11 and made them bowl eligible for the first time in over a decade and crushed school rushing records. Won the award for nations best halfback, Heisman finalist, that is also took 21 credit hours and has a 3.25 gpa and his major his mechanical engineering. Myron Rolle is being hyped up as a top safety because hes a Rhodes Scholar, hes not even a good safety and he hasn't played in a year, but hes smart! so that puts him at the top.
These afflete lovers really have their hands full, a White runningback who won the Doak Walker award and was a Heisman finalist, one of the most successful dual threat quarterbacks in history (Tebow, who has won the Heisman in the past) and several White wide receivers who had great college careers (like Shipley who should have won the Biletnikoff award)
Edited by: dwid
I mean come saying he has lingering injuries and saying he had a acl instead of pcl and this: "He was also a 105-game starter on the Stanford baseball team, leaving the 6'1/235-pound outfielder/tailback susceptible to additional wear and tear."
BASEBALL CAUSING ADDITIONAL WEAR AND TEAR?!?! Come on lol, Hes not like a typical afflete that cant handle exercise year round. I thought staying in shape all year long actually prolongs your life and keeps you healthy longer? Most people are made to be active all year long. He was injured on a fluke, PCL injuries are rare, and not likely to happen again, and I said it before, its not like an ACL where it affects your ability to cut and other stuff a RB has to do. He didn't even have surgery, he just rehabbed it for the year.
Its not like he declined during the year, he actually got better as the season went along. Toby is going to be medically cleared as being fine, hes going to run in the 4.4 range and all of these haters can't do crap about it. Hes going to be drafted no later than the 2nd. The guy is in great shape, he said he gets about a week of rest from sports a year. You can't do that with lingering injuries, if he had some sort of problem he would have given up one of the sports.
If Toby were black hed be guaranteed to be picked in the top 5. Two sport athlete (remember how hyped up Bo Jackson was?) rushed for 1800+ yards 27 tds. Went to a school that was 1-11 and made them bowl eligible for the first time in over a decade and crushed school rushing records. Won the award for nations best halfback, Heisman finalist, that is also took 21 credit hours and has a 3.25 gpa and his major his mechanical engineering. Myron Rolle is being hyped up as a top safety because hes a Rhodes Scholar, hes not even a good safety and he hasn't played in a year, but hes smart! so that puts him at the top.
These afflete lovers really have their hands full, a White runningback who won the Doak Walker award and was a Heisman finalist, one of the most successful dual threat quarterbacks in history (Tebow, who has won the Heisman in the past) and several White wide receivers who had great college careers (like Shipley who should have won the Biletnikoff award)
Edited by: dwid
JReb1 said:
I followed Doering's college and pro career closely and was unaware of this, much less him "taking hell" for it. Do you have any links or anything else in regard to this?
DixieDestroyer
Hall of Famer
DWID, good assessment partner. No doubt the caste machine is trying to undercut Toby in any/every way possible.
If everything was on the up & up, Toby would never make it out of the 1st round. This kid has overwhelming power, explosiveness, balance, character & heart...and is a superstar college athlete!
white lightning
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Keep your head up Toby. Don't listen to any of the stupid media, scouts, etc. Just go out there and run the 40 of your life and show them your strength as well. I would be willing to bet that he is the strongest running back in college football!
celticdb15
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WL I'm guessing Toby will be able to pump out at least 20 or so reps of 225. Too bad the combine doesn't test squatting ability.
JReb1
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Don Wassall said:
I can't find anything online, but when Chris got drafted so late while his teammates (Ike Hilliard and Riedell Anthony) were drafted so high while he slid so far in the draft he made a comment to the media (not sure which outlet) that he'd have also been a 1st or 2nd round pick and as hyped as his teammates were if he wasn't White. His comment was discussed on ESPN (it may have also been printed in the St. Pete Times) and they all came to the conclusion that it was ridiculous that Doering was being overlooked because of his race but because he just wasn't as talented as Hilliard or Anthony. This comment by Doering was one of the first things that made me aware of the Caste system, I wish I could find his exact quote. I'll keep looking for it, hopefully I can find it or someone else who remembers it.
JReb, thanks for giving more background information. Unfortunately it's difficult to find info on a lot of things on the Internet that took place before the mid-90s. We had a thread on CF's old board about seven years ago about White RBs and WRs we followed in collegein the early to mid-90s and even then those guys were pretty much forgotten, with little to no info on them to be found in cyberspace.
Doering tore up the SEC in record breaking fashion after being forced to do the white thing and work his way up from about 8th string walk-on to becoming a starter midway through his junior season. He wasn't a "burner" but didn't seem to have trouble beating all those black SEC safeties and cornerbacks who went on to the NFL. His subsequent screwing by the NFL is one of the most ridiculous case studies in what is now a very very thick book of White college talent breaking through the Caste barriers at that level only to be stomped on by the NFL.
There were similarities between Doering and Cris Collinsworth -- both were tall and lean and starred for Florida. They even looked alike facially. But -- Collinsworth was a second round draft pick who started right away and made several Pro Bowls. He was in some ways the last of his kind just as John Riggins was the last White running back allowed to excel. The few White receivers who have managed to excel in the NFL over the past 20 years have really had to scrape and claw, being drafted later than they should have been or not at all, routinely cut and/or languishing at the end of the bench for years on end before finally getting a legitimate opportunity. The most notable exceptionshave beenRicky Proehl and Wayne Chrebet, who both played a lot as rookies, but unlike Collinsworth they weren't heralded coming into the league. The fact that Austin Collie and Brian Hartlineplayed a fair amount as rookiesis at least a hopeful sign of possible better days to come, especially with all the White talent at receiver this year. Chris Doering was never given a chance; his first six seasons in theNFL he had a grand total of six receptions before the Redskins and then the Steelers let him play a bit as a fifth receiver before he faded out of the league.
Doering tore up the SEC in record breaking fashion after being forced to do the white thing and work his way up from about 8th string walk-on to becoming a starter midway through his junior season. He wasn't a "burner" but didn't seem to have trouble beating all those black SEC safeties and cornerbacks who went on to the NFL. His subsequent screwing by the NFL is one of the most ridiculous case studies in what is now a very very thick book of White college talent breaking through the Caste barriers at that level only to be stomped on by the NFL.
There were similarities between Doering and Cris Collinsworth -- both were tall and lean and starred for Florida. They even looked alike facially. But -- Collinsworth was a second round draft pick who started right away and made several Pro Bowls. He was in some ways the last of his kind just as John Riggins was the last White running back allowed to excel. The few White receivers who have managed to excel in the NFL over the past 20 years have really had to scrape and claw, being drafted later than they should have been or not at all, routinely cut and/or languishing at the end of the bench for years on end before finally getting a legitimate opportunity. The most notable exceptionshave beenRicky Proehl and Wayne Chrebet, who both played a lot as rookies, but unlike Collinsworth they weren't heralded coming into the league. The fact that Austin Collie and Brian Hartlineplayed a fair amount as rookiesis at least a hopeful sign of possible better days to come, especially with all the White talent at receiver this year. Chris Doering was never given a chance; his first six seasons in theNFL he had a grand total of six receptions before the Redskins and then the Steelers let him play a bit as a fifth receiver before he faded out of the league.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Chrebet has to be one of the best white success stories of all time. Coming out of Hofstra no one expected much from him. He turned out to be an incredible receiver. With the almost complete lack of whites at the caste positions for Keyshawn Johnson to take shots at him shows the racism of blacks towards whites. They would like the caste positions, and pretty much the whole NFL outside of kicker and punter to be black.
Edited by: whiteathlete33
Edited by: whiteathlete33