The War of Northern Aggression

Michael

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The War of Northern Aggression, a.k.a. "The Civil War", the War Between the States, or whatever name you call it was the point that the Communist gained power in the USA. Russia was not the first to fall to the Communist the USA had become communist by an unholy deal made by the Yankee "elite" with the 48ers who had fled to the Anglo world after their communist "revolutions" had fail in 1848 in Europe.In Russia, it was the Red and the White, in America it was the Blue (in the red role) and the Grey ( in the White role).

Though, the communist prevailed in open warfare, they fail to impose their agenda fully upon the American people as the White Southerners fought a resistance campaign to "reconstruction" and the blacks proved to weak and cowardly to be the oppressors that the communist envisioned them being.A compromise was reached as the communist used the USA to spread their communist terror throughout the world and too wait until the time was right for a second "reconstruction" to begin that they called the "Civil Rights movement."
 

jaxvid

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I think it was more the result of interference by shape shifting aliens.
 

Menelik

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Michael said:
The War of Northern Aggression, a.k.a. "The Civil War", the War Between the States, or whatever name you call it was the point that the Communist gained power in the USA.




You're joking right?Edited by: Menelik
 

C Darwin

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i think it's fair to call any post-french revolution centralization advocate a communist. i find 'history' people like to refine the term communist to cold war russians, because that was truly their label. but the term communism's primary function is that of an adjictive, not a noun.
 

Menelik

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Actually its not fair or correct. Communism is a social-political movement striving for a classless society. Now if you can prove that the Union was influenced by Karl Marx, which it wasn't, you might have a case. As far as any movement after the French Revolution you need to read Plato's The Republic. He espoused communistic ideals way before the term as we know it came into being.Edited by: Menelik
 

Colonel_Reb

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Whether Lincoln and his Radical Republican successors were influenced directly by Marx and his writings or not, the waging and the outcome of The War in large part led to the socialist/communist mess we now have.
 

Menelik

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I sure would like to see any proof if you really think they might have been influenced by communism. Communism/socialism are two dicked up movements and they are responsible for a lot of problems that we face today but the war between the states wasn't one of them.
 

Observer

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Michael said:
...48ers who had fled to the Anglo world after their communist "revolutions" had fail in 1848 in Europe.
An interesting thought. I had never connected revolutionary 1848 Europe with the situation in America few years later.

Like Menelik, I would be interested in seeing further documentation on this.

I suppose the place to begin looking would be at the American counterparts of the Freemasons, Carbonari, and such other groups that were busy in the European 1848 revolutions. The Vatican was exceptionally sympathetic toward the South; and in particular, Pope Pius with Jefferson Davis. As I re-think things, this may have been because Pius saw in Davis a kindred spirit who had also suffered at the hands of Masonic or "communist" revolutionaries.
 

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I've never seen any such "proof" with my own eyes, Menelik. Thus I can't provide you with it here. I can provide you with some reading material that can hopefully serve as food for thought.

The following excerpt is taken from: http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w62.html



In their fascinating
recent book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Red-Republicans-Lincolns-Marxists-Marxism/dp/0595446981" target="_blank">Red
Republicans and Lincoln's Marxists: Marxism in the Civil War
,
</a>Walter D. Kennedy and Al Benson, Jr. examine the role of the
"48ers" â€" veterans of the 18 interconnected revolutions that convulsed
Europe in 1848â€"1849 â€" in creating the Republican Party, bringing
Lincoln to power, and conducting the war against the South.</font>


Lincoln himself
hailed the proto-Marxist revolution of 1848 in terms that seem,
for him, profoundly odd. "Any people anywhere, being inclined and
having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing
government, and form a new one that suits them better," insisted
Lincoln in a January 12, 1848 speech. "Nor is this right confined
to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may
choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may
revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as
they inhabit."</font>


Those seeking
to "revolutionize" Europe weren't secessionists content to withdraw
from existing political entities and leave others in peace. Their
objective, as described by Kennedy and Benson, was to overthrow
the existing political order under which they lived, and then consolidate
power over larger territories. The objective was to reconstruct
society, not merely to withdraw from oppressive, unjust political
arrangements. </font>


Germany provided
both the best example of this centralizing revolutionary effort
and a large supply of failed revolutionaries who migrated to the
United States and later joined the struggle to suppress Southern
independence. German revolutionaries, in describing their vision,
declared that all of Germany â€" which at the time was a fractious
collection of principalities â€" henceforth would be "a united indivisible
republic." </font>


Certainly,
the revolutionary program appealed to idealistic impulses by promising
to free people from arbitrary rule and feudalist institutions. "People
were to be freed from local decentralized control," write Kennedy
and Benson, only to be "placed instead under centralized authoritarian
control" in the name of "Democracy." </font>


When the revolt
of 1848â€"49 was crushed, the "48er" diaspora brought many of
the most ambitious and radical of the revolutionaries to the United
States, where they were taken into the bosom of America's home-grown
collectivist movement.</font>


Many of them
were instrumental in creating the Republican Party and mobilizing
fellow expatriates to vote for Fremont and Lincoln. Some of them
â€" such as Joseph Wedemeyer, Charles A. Dana, Franz Sigel, August
Willich, and Carl Schurz, to name just a few â€" rose to commanding
heights in the Union Army during the war. <a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1851/letters/51_10_16.htm" target="_blank">Dana,
a personal friend of Karl Marx and Frederich Engels</a>, was assistant
secretary of war under Lincoln.</font>


Gen. Wedemeyer
was <a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1846/letters/46_05_14.htm" target="_blank">a
friend and close associate of Marx</a> in the London Communist League
before migrating to the United States, where he distinguished himself
as a publisher of Communist tracts (including the first American
edition of the Communist Manifesto) and helped organize the
Republican Party, and commanded a Union army. </font>


Gen. Willich,
whom Marx incongruously described as "A Communist with a heart,"
served on the Central Committee of the Communist League. His fellow
48ers referred to the Union General as "The reddest of the Red."
A passionate admirer of the deranged terrorist John Brown, Willich
gave a speech in 1859 urging his audience to "whet their sabers
with the blood" of southern slaveholders.</font>


Franz Sigel's
command experience at the time he was given a Union army consisted
of leading socialist troops in a failed uprising in Baden, Germany.
Carl Schurz, another veteran of the German socialist uprising, did
little to distinguish himself as a Union general, but had lasting
influence as a Senator from Missouri and Secretary of the Interior.</font>


It was Schurz
who created the American Gulag Archipelago called the <a href="http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-13729096_ITM" target="_blank">Indian
Reservation system</a> (and it was his wife who pioneered the kindergarten
system, better described as the ante-chamber to the Regime's collectivist
mind-laundry). </font>


Revolutionary
collectivists of this variety clustered around Lincoln and his party
because they understood the need to forge a unitary state out of
the decentralized American republic â€" and they were very aware of
the fact that this could only be accomplished through total war.
This view was well expressed in a hopeful note Engels wrote to Weydemeyer
in which the war against the South was described as "the preliminaries
of the proletarian revolution, the measures that prepare the battleground
and clear the way for us."</font>


Lincoln's war
didn't preserve or restore the Union; it destroyed it and supplanted
it with a new polity based on radically different premises. Just
as Marxists of his era gravitated naturally toward Lincoln and vibrated
like tuning forks when he spoke the language of raw power and ruthless
centralization, Marxist academicians of our era understand the true
nature of what Lincoln accomplished. </font>


Among that
number can be found Columbia School of Law professor<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P._Fletcher" target="_blank">
George P. Fletcher</a>, whose above-mentioned book <a href="http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Law/LegalHistory/?view=usa&amp;ci=9780195156287" target="_blank">The
Secret Constitution
</a> acknowledges what Lincoln's critics
have long maintained, in the teeth of criticism and contumely: The
so-called Civil War was an effort to bring about "the consolidation
of the United States in the mid-nineteenth-century European sense
of the term" â€" or, if you will, the post-1848 sense of the expression.</font>


"One year into
the war," continues Fletcher, "after a string of Union defeats,
Lincoln learned that the old Union could not possibly survive. `A
new one had to be embraced.' And the new Union would have to be
based on a new constitutional order." </font>


That new order,
Fletcher elaborated, would be based on the premise that "the federal
government, victorious in warfare, must continue its aggressive
intervention in the lives of its citizens." Familiar institutions
would remain, but their roles would be redefined and their powers
completely revised within "a new framework of government, a structure
based on values fundamentally different from those that went before."</font>


For decades,
the Soviet Regime and its agents celebrated Lincoln as a precursor
to Lenin, and for very good reason: Both Lincoln and Lenin displayed
nearly limitless tactical flexibility in pursuit of the power they
exercised ruthlessly in the effort to create a vast, centralized
Union (or Soyuz). </font>


Shortly before
his death, General Lee â€" in a characteristically graceful reply
to a kind note he'd received from Lord Acton â€" explained that "the
maintenance of the rights and authority reserved to the states and
to the people [were] the safeguard to the continuance of a free
government." By suppressing the option of secession, which is the
ultimate peaceful check on the ambitions of a central government,
the North had destroyed that safeguard. </font>


In words that
have the undeniable heft of fulfilled prophecy, Lee predicted that
"the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to
be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor
of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded
it." </font>


Cast a look
about you, ladies and gentlemen, and you'll behold the "ruin" of
which Lee wrote. Those ruling us have pledged <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_11098847" target="_blank">something
in excess of $8 trillion</a> â€" more than half of this year's gross
domestic product â€" to provide a financial cushion for the politically
connected criminals who preside over our financial system. In that
fact we can see the real nature of the "Union" created by Lincoln:
It is a forced marriage between the ignorant or deceived host and
eager, esurient parasites.</font>


The logic of
Lincoln's triumph, wrote biographer Charles C.L. Minor, is that
"the right to govern is paramount over the right to live, that man
is made for government, rather than government for man, and that
for men to claim the right of self-government is to deserve and
incur the death penalty." This is why the Power Elite exalts Lincoln's
name above all others and celebrates him as the Holy State made
Flesh.</font>


For those who
reside within the bunkers and gated communities of the Power Elite,
the rest of us are useful only as something to be consumed: We are
producers whose earnings can be taxed, whose properties can be seized,
whose children can be conscripted.</font>
An interesting letter Marx wrote to Lincoln in late 1864: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm

I think this book (Red Republicans and Lincoln's Marxists: Marxism in the Civil War) would be interesting as well. http://olesouthbooks.com/kennedy_brothers/red_republicans.php

Another take on the subject:

http://albensonjr.com/mrlincolnthesocialist.shtml

Mr. Lincoln The Socialist




by Al Benson Jr.
</font>



</font>
abethesocialist.jpg

Over the years I have contended that Abraham Lincoln was a
socialist--not that he was a card-carrying member of some socialist
group, but rather that his mindset had that bent. In that contention I
have met all manner of reactions, everything from some who agree with me
(and many do), to outright ridicule from Lincoln lovers in the North
(and some in the South, too). Many seem to feel, although they would not
express it in those terms, that Mr. Lincoln should be elevated to the
level of Deity. Also, I have run across almost complete apathy in much
of the South, and other sections of the country as well. Southern folks
at least used to know that Mr. Lincoln had been a less-than-desirable
president; they knew he had been responsible for alot of bad things
during the "late unpleasantness" and that was about it. Many, no matter
what their persuasion, had the thought (planted) in the back of their
heads that, for all his faults, Lincoln was, at least, a "good" man. The
contention that he was some kind of socialist really shakes them up,
and mostly, they just don't want to hear anymore on the subject. It's
not that they are apathetic--it's just that they don't know and they
don't care. Please don't rattle their chain or rock their boat--just
leave them fat and happy with their illusions.
</font>

Many years ago now, when I first began reading about the goodly number
of socialists and outright Communists in Mr. Lincoln's armies, I began
to have these nagging little doubts that, maybe, just maybe, Mr. Lincoln
was not the honest, country hayseed that his promoters tried to make
him out to be.
</font>
You
often find tidbits of interesting history in places you would seldom
look for them. For instance, I have never really cared for Carl
Sandburg's six volume story of the life of Lincoln. I felt that much of
it was just shameless promotion of the "great emancipator." Yet there
had to be some truth in it.
</font>
Often
that truth has been sanitized so that we don't quite grasp all its
importance, but it is there. I will cite one small example. In chapter
22 of the first volume, on pages 84-85, Sandburg mentioned one Robert
Owen, a "rich English businessman" who bought land in New Harmony,
Indiana. He mentioned that Owen gave a speech before Congress telling
how "...he and his companions were going to find a new way for people to
live their lives together, without fighting, cheating, or exploiting
one another...they would share and share alike, each for all and all for
each."
</font>
carlsandburg.jpg

Owen did, indeed, have a "new" way for the people in America to live
together--it was and is, called socialism! Then Sandburg informed us
that Mr. Lincoln knew about this colony of Owen's and, according to
Sandburg "The scheme lighted up Abe Lincoln's heart." It is interesting
that Mr. Sandburg didn't bother to tell his readers that Mr. Owen was a
socialist and that his colony in Indiana was a socialist experiment,
one that ultimately failed because of its socialism. Surely Sandburg
must have been aware of that, given his own background (which will be
dealt with in a later article). Why didn't he bother to inform his
readers?
</font>
And
if Lincoln, even in those early years of his life, was aware of Owen's
undertaking, he must have had some idea of what Owen was all about.
Lincoln, even as a young man, was ambitious. He was no country bumpkin.
</font>
Later
in life, when Mr. Lincoln broke into politics, he was a great admirer
of Henry Clay and of Clay's "vision" for America. For those who may not
know alot about Henry Clay, I would recommend a very revelatory article
written by Thomas DiLorenzo that appeared in the March, 1998 issue of
The Free Market, published by the Ludwig von Mises Institute. The title
of Professor DiLorenzo's article was Henry Clay--National Socialist.
Space will not permit here, but DiLorenzo aptly sets forth a blistering
critique of Clay's socialism.
</font>
Lincoln
eulogized Clay when he said "During my whole political life, I have
loved and revered (Clay) as a leader and teacher." If Clay was a
socialist and Lincoln considered him a great teacher and leader, what
does that tell you about where Lincoln was coming from?
</font>
We
are able to glean even further confirmation of Lincoln's socialist
leanings from establishment "historian" James M. McPherson. In his book
Abraham Lincoln and the Second American Revolution McPherson has noted,
on pages 24-25: "Lincoln championed the leaders of the European
revolutions of 1848; in turn, a man who knew something about those
revolutions--Karl Marx--praised Lincoln in 1865 as 'the single-minded
son of the working class' who had led his 'country through the matchless
struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a
social world." Stop and ponder just what Marx was referring to, and the
language he used--"reconstruction of a social world." In actuality,
neither Marx nor Lincoln had much use for blacks, but they did make good
cannor fodder, and they contained grist for the socialist propaganda
mill, and so both Marx and Lincoln exalted their "esteem" for them in
their public pronouncements. Privately it was altogether something else.
Marx even signed a letter to Lincoln, with others, congratulating him
on his re-election in 1864, and Lincoln reportedly responded warmly. It
was just enough of this kind of information that led Donnie Kennedy and I
to write our new book Red Republicans And Lincoln's Marxists (www.oldsouthbooks.com)
in which we pointed out clearly the socialist origins of the
Republican Party and Lincoln's affinity for socialists and Communists.
</font>
In this book we dealt with the fact of a noted socialist and Communist
presence in the Union Armies during the War of Northern Aggression. For
years this was a studiously ignored fact. No one that wrote about the
war talked about it--you weren't supposed to be aware of it or even dare
to think in those terms at all. Were you to become aware of a major
socialist presence in the Union Armies, it just might begin to change
your perception of what the war was really all about (Marxist
revolution). I realise that, for the average Southerner, it was about
liberty and repelling the invasion of his homeland; for the Yankee, it
was about empire, financial gain, and growing centralized government
control over everyone's lives and control over people's lives was the
elixir of life for the socialists. The fact that Communists and
socialists from the failed 1848 revolts in Europe flocked to join
Lincoln's armies is only now beginning to be dealt with, and even now,
most authors who do mention it tend to downplay the significance of it
and to try to move their readers along to the "more important" things,
such as who won which battle where. Don't dwell too long on Lincoln and
his socialist buddies. It might change your perspective and we can't
have too much of that now, can we.
</font>
Lincoln's
entire life reveals an ongoing affinity for socialism and for those
that practiced and promoted it. Once this is fully grasped, it will
enable us to lay hold of the fact that, for the federal government in
Washington, D.C. in the 1860s, the Northern victory in the War of
Northern Aggression was another giant step in the program of socialist
revolution that would, in time, reveal itself as the New World Order.
</font>
Edited by: Colonel_Reb
 

JReb1

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One thing is for sure IMO, America would be a much superior country right now had the South prevailed in the Civil War.
 

Menelik

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How so? Col. Reb thanks for the link!
 

Michael

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An article entitled "If Obama is the New Lincoln, What Should Be Expected

Amongst the ill informed masses of America, some of the people are aware of the Russian Revolution of 1917, though fewer still the actual causes. Most have been fed on a tonic of: the evil Tsar this and the evil Tsar that. Fewer still remember the 1905 Marxist revolution that was crushed in the Russian empire and all but none know of the first Marxist revolutions, that of 1848 (though it may be argued that the French Revolution was a proto-Marxist revolution in and of itself). In the year 1848, armed with the Communist Manifesto and Marx's wealth club of financiers: the League of Just Men, Socialists and Marxists rose up in 18 separate revolts, throughout central Europe. The kings of Europe crushed these revolts and those instigators who were not arrested and rightly hung, fled to the United States and Canada. Some fled to England but of those, most wore out their welcome rather quickly. Four thousand 48ers escaped to America, taking new careers in the virgin land, as journalists, teachers and politicians, where Marx is still a god to this day.

Thus men such as Friedrich Annete, a Prussian officer discharged for membership of the Communist League in Prussia or Carl Schurz, another German communist who fled to America and after a stint became one of the founders of the Republican Party in 1854. After Abraham Lincoln's election he became envoy to Spain. Upon his return from Spain, this Marxist was awarded the rank of Major General and command of the 3rd Division, Army of the Potomac. After the war he became editor and chief of the Detroit Post. Yes, that is correct, the Republican Party of America was founded by Socialists and Marxists. Is it any surprise at how Bush and others have acted on the world stage?

As a matter of fact, there were many Marxists who founded the Republican Party, got Lincoln elected and were rewarded by him. Let us explore a few more:

Franze Sigel, born in Baden, Germany, a former Prussian officer who took part in the 1848 revolution and fled to the United States via Switzerland and than England. Prior to the Civil War, he rose up to be the head of the public school district of St. Louis. That is correct, the northern Midwest, Lincoln's old stomping grounds. He entered the Union Army as a Colonel, commander of the 3rd Missouri and was quickly promoted to Brigadier General. By 1862 he was a Major General. After the war, Sigel became a journalist. Notice a pattern?

http://mat-rodina.blogspot.com/2009/02/if-obamma-is-new-lincoln-what-should-be.html

This should, along with the vast amount of info that Colonel_Reb gave you, start you on investigating the connection between the 48ers and the War of Northern Aggression. You can check into other biographies of these and find more both on and offline.
 

Menelik

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Thanks for the blog but I still don't see how you can claim that the communists took over after the war between the states in America which is your premise.Edited by: Menelik
 

Michael

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Menelik said:
Thanks for the blog but  I still don't see how you can claim that the communists took over after the war between the states in America which is your premise.

Though, the communist gain power they did not gain absolute power and likely were junior partners with the Yankees until JFK's death. and they may have won the main war, but as I said in the second paragraph " Though, the communist prevailed in open warfare, they fail to impose their agenda fully upon the American people as the White Southerners fought a resistance campaign to "reconstruction" and the blacks proved to weak and cowardly to be the oppressors that the communist envisioned them being.A compromise was reached as the communist used the USA to spread their communist terror throughout the world and too wait until the time was right for a second "reconstruction" to begin that they called the "Civil Rights movement.""

It was the valiant Southern freedom fighters that likely save the USA including common Yankees from a fate possible worse than Russia went through under the communist. But with the rise of the so call "civil rights" movement the communist began a renewed attempt to take over the USA once more, though they may call it "capitalist" as has been said capitalism and communism are two sides off the same coin.

Communism is the merger of government and business: whereas, Capitalism is the merger of business and government and except for a few superficial difference the two end up being one and the same, rule by the same type of oligarchs.

Basically, the communist gain political power but could not impose their will on the people that sent the communist from being Marxist to being Fabian socialist. All that change was the time frame.

The War of Northern Aggression was when the communist got a foothold in the USA not a complete takeover.
 

Paleocon

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It probably requires less stretching of labels to simply say that the War of Northern Aggression ended federalism and the subsequent 14th Amendment effectively repealed the 10th. Indeed centralization and collectivism often go hand-in-hand so the war made the imposition of mass ideology much easier. However, such an outcome does not appear to be an intended result of the war. Much like present day Iraq and Afghanistan it is doubtful that much realistic thought was given to the post-war period at the initiation of the war.



Edited by: Paleocon
 

Thrashen

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Michael said:
though they may call it "capitalist" as has been said capitalism and communism are two sides off the same coin.

Communism is the merger of government and business: whereas, Capitalism is the merger of business and government and except for a few superficial difference the two end up being one and the same, rule by the same type of oligarchs.


Nice post, however, this statement is particularly accurate. Communist and Capitalist governments both include the same deranged, narcissistic, insatiable, and disgracefully corrupt "leadership,"Â￾ with the exact same magnitude of "absolute power"Â￾ over the serf culture. It's embarrassing to hear grown white men converse about these political doctrines as though they are somehow different. It's equally alarming to hear them refer to something as inconsequential as the American political parties as dissimilar to one another.

In America, especially in the last 100 years, the "Two Party System"Â￾ has had one subject for which they harmoniously agree"¦.the annihilation of white culture, white morals, white traditions, white religion, white language, white men, white women, white children, and white DNA is a "the right thing to do."Â￾ After examining the evidence"¦what other conclusion could one reach?

Personally, I feel as though all forms of "government"Â￾ are meant for the lower races, not for white men. Perhaps if white men had more brotherhood, love, and respect for one another, we wouldn't be subjected to these little boys (referred to as "men"Â￾), dressed up in their fancy suits, playing the role of a "leader."Â￾
 

Paleocon

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Capitalism and Communism are really two extremes. Capitalism is the ultimate individualism
and Communism is the ultimate collectivism. Their flaw is that both
are "pure" ideologies and as such do not account for the whole of human
nature.


"The nature of man is intricate; the objects of
society are of the greatest possible complexity; and, therefore, no simple
disposition or direction of power can be suitable either to man's nature or to
the quality of his affairs. When I hear the simplicity of contrivance aimed at
and boasted of in any new political constitutions, I am at no loss to decide
that the artificers are grossly ignorant of their trade or totally negligent of
their duty. The simple governments are fundamentally defective, to say no worse
of them. If you were to contemplate society in but one point of view, all these
simple modes of polity are infinitely captivating. In effect each would answer
its single end much more perfectly than the more complex is able to attain all
its complex purposes. But it is better that the whole should be imperfectly and
anomalously answered than that, while some parts are provided for with great
exactness, others might be totally neglected or perhaps materially injured by
the over-care of a favorite member."

-- Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France




The similarity of Capitalism and Communism is that they are both materialistic ideologies. Man's role in society is merely production and consumption. The Capitalist system attempts to free man to produce and consume, but creates a world where anything, any place, or anyone can be bought for thirty pieces of silver, or less if you must. Loyalties to home and hearth, country and kin are tenuous at best as price and profit defines all things. The Communist system robs man of his individuality entirely by defining him as a unit of consumption. His loyalties are so diluted and the man is so soulless that those bonds are worthless. In each system the spiritual and sentimental side of man is completely neglected. Neither accounts for the natural human bonds of blood, community, culture, tradition, and religion. Indeed, both systems either vulgarize or suppress such sentiments.



</span>
 

Bronk

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Paleocon said:
The similarity of Capitalism and Communism is that they are both materialistic ideologies.  Man's role in society is merely production and consumption.  The Capitalist system attempts to free man to produce and consume, but creates a world where anything, any place, or anyone can be bought for thirty pieces of silver, or less if you must.  Loyalties to home and hearth, country and kin are tenuous at best as price and profit defines all things.  The Communist system robs man of his individuality entirely by defining him as a unit of consumption.  His loyalties are so diluted and the man is so soulless that those bonds are worthless.  In each system the spiritual and sentimental side of man is completely neglected.  Neither accounts for the natural human bonds of blood, community, culture, tradition, and religion.  Indeed, both systems either vulgarize or suppress such sentiments.

This is a superb summation. Well done.

Simply put, capitalism is MORE revolutionary than communism and creates revolution through the marketplace and the creation of capital which is the basis for power.Edited by: Bronk
 

The Hock

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I agree also. Paleocon's post gives me a little more understanding of the disgust and loathing in my gut at what this country's culture has devolved to.
 

Colonel_Reb

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Hey Bronk, nice to see you posting again!
 
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The American Civil War was fought by the American people to break the slave owners conspiracy. The slave owners knew how profitable slavery was and wanted to increase it. First they brought slavery into the territories, then into the free states, and then they would begin to import more african slave. This would depress wages forcing free whites to accept bondage for themselves in order to survive.
The northern victory stopped this. The ACW always seemed like a marxist class struggle, except that people at the time would not have expressed it that way. The southern slave owners were the group that was the closest to Marxist communism.
Marxist communism never fit well in the USA. We had too much social mobility, an open frontier, and other factor.
 

Colonel_Reb

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screamingeagle, I think you need to go back and take another look at the history of slavery in the US. I don't know where you got your info, but its way off.
 

Bronk

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Colonel_Reb said:
Hey Bronk, nice to see you posting again! 

Thanks, Colonel. I wish I had the time to come here more.

screamingeagle said:
The American Civil War was fought by the American people to break the slave owners conspiracy. The slave owners knew how profitable slavery was and wanted to increase it. First they brought slavery into the territories, then into the free states, and then they would begin to import more african slave. This would depress wages forcing free whites to accept bondage for themselves in order to survive.
The northern victory stopped this. The ACW always seemed like a marxist class struggle, except that people at the time would not have expressed it that way. The southern slave owners were the group that was the closest to Marxist communism.

No.

The War for Southern Secession (or Northern Aggression) was fought to keep the South from determining its own future. Without Southern ports and the revenue they provided to subsidize Northern business, the United States would have withered to junior partner. The conflict finally brought the states under the domination of a strong central federal state and ended the long struggle for true federalism.

Like it or not the U.S. Constitution recgnized slaves as property and Southerners argued that their property was their property whether it was in Montgomery, Alabama or New York City. The great Southern statesman John C. Calhoun noted that "free" labor in the north was already in the condition of "wage slavery" which, he argued, imposed harsher conditions upon whites there than blacks in Dixie. I don't buy all of Calhoun's argument, but he certainly had a sailient point.
 
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For more information about the slave owners conspiracy seeHistory of the Rise and Fall of Slave Power in America, Henry Wilson, 3 Vols: Boston, 1872-1877, The Great Conspiracy(New York 1886) John A. Logan, The Adder's Den(New York 1964)John S. Dye.
Note the dates. This is how contemporary people saw as the cause of the Civil War. Whether or not they are right, I will leave up to you. Every generation interprets the causes of the ACW differently. We seemed to settle on the Lost Cause or the fight to save the union as the reasons for the war.
Slavery was not a racial issue in those days. Laws could easily be passed to enslave whites as slaves. This is why men in the North were so eager to enlist. They were fighting against being enslaved!
They cared little about the Africans in the South. Once the Africans were freed, they would all go back to Africa. We know that didn't work out as planned. We should have picked our own cotton.
This is a part of our history that has been forgotten.
 
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