the state of heavyweight boxing

[whiteathlete33]

we have the heavyweight division on lock. 4 white champions. Vitali is back. The only problems is no white americans who have a chance at being champ.

 

[Thrashen]

It's true. I can't even think of an American heavyweight, white or black, who has a chance of taking any of the 4 belts. However, Nigerian Samual Peter has a very good chance of beating Oleg Maskaev in the coming months. He's a very hard puncher and isnt easily hurt when hit. Also, as hard it is to admit, Peter was barely edged out by the class of the entire division, Wlad Klitschko. Maskaev knocking out Rahman not once, but twice (after Oleg was completely dismissed as a heavyweight contender) was truely an amazing moment in sports, let alone boxing. Personally, I think Sam Peter could give my favorite boxer, Wlad, an incredibily difficuly night if they were to fight again. I worry to death about these guys every fight night...best of luck, brothers. Edited by: Thrashen

 

[cutty]

It doesn't matter to me what nationality they are. They're white men. And it disproves the myth we can't box. I put our race above nationality. Now, they need to make some kind of attempt to unify the belt for the heavyweight division to get any respect from the media.

 

[Liverlips]

Yes, Sam Peter does have a good shot at beating Oleg. But then Povetkin or Vitali or Wlad or Valuev has a good shot at beating Peter as well.


There are some decent white American heavies: Mike Marrone, JD Chapman, Tony Grano, Travis Kaufmann. And don't forget Joe Mesi, Tye Fields and Brian Minto. But I don't know that any of them can win a title at this point.


Oh, and MIke Wilson (white man)is in the finals of the U.S. amateur boxing championships. If he stays in the amateurs he could be our heavyweight rep. in the 2008 Olympics. I may finally be able to cheer for a U.S. boxer in the Olympics.

 

[Charles Martel]

White's may dominate for awhile. The best heavyweight prospects are mostly white: Dimitrenko, Platov, Povetkin, and Boytsov.

The era of the heavyweight division being dominated by negro boxers now past. I hear a lot of whining about the "state of the heavyweight division" from blacks and from old white sportswriters. I say to them: stop living in the past, the time of Ali, Holmes and Tyson is over! This is the 21st century.Edited by: JD1986

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Well said JD. During the "Ali" era, there were no Russian, or other Soviet Block representitives in the pro ranks. If there had been... Now our brothers from Europe are dominating and the caste pimps can't stand it. There is no borders when it comes to race. The whites are schooling shuck and jive negros in the sweet science of boxing, and it makes me proud of my race!

 

[Guest]

I have a different take on things. I don't think there are that many great 200 pound athletes in boxing, white or black. Some boxing fans make out the best boxers to be great athletes, but right now that's just not the case at heavyweight or cruiserweight.

The best boxers at heavyweight and cruiserweight are good athletes, but they're not awesome, and boxing is losing talent to other sports. It's definitely true. Forget black athletes, the best white athletes do not go into boxing. I don't see how anybody with an decent background in sports science can look at the belt holders and contenders at heavyweight and cruiserweight and think that they are great athletes. I see guys like Briggs and Toney and shake my head.

There are more good 200 pound athletes in wrestling and team sports. Pretty soon there will be more good 200 pound athletes in MMA.

 

[Charles Martel]

Nevada, that's the very same BS that's coming from a lot of people who just can't accept the fact that these white East European boxers are top notch, and would have dominated in any era! I'm sick of hearing all the excuses.

Look, Mayweather made $30 million in his last fight, do you think most young black men don't want the big payoffs like that? Briggs made 1.8 million for his terrible performance. Most negro men today grew up worshipping Ali, Holyfield and Tyson, and wanting to become a heavyweight champ. There were always other sports to go into, back in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, like football and basketball. The best young black athletes still want to be like Ali, they still want to become boxers...

There ARE great athletes in boxing right now, their names are Klitchko, Chagaev, Maskaev, Dimitrenko, Povetkin...and yes, Briggs is a joke and Toney's over the hill. But there's not much difference between today's negro boxers (i.e., Bryd, Brewster, Thompson, Guinn, Bostice, Austin and Chambers) and the black boxers of yesteryear. All that's really different is today there's some great white heavyweights coming out of Eastern Europe that are repeatedly defeating them.Edited by: JD1986

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure I even want to argue about this. There are several big contradictions in your argument.

Basically you are saying there is not a single white american who is athletic enough to beat pathetic Shannon Briggs in a boxing match. I think you're way, way wrong.

 

[Thrashen]

Either way, aren't they all athletic enough to have won 4 separate heavyweight belts? Enough said. The real issue is not why these particular men are dominating a "weak division," but why aren't they getting the accolades associated with being the 4 baddest men on the planet? The media's arrogant, dim-witted, nervously spoken answer (a weak division) is nothing more than a lame excuse to explain why big, strong white men should finally get some respect in boxing. Worms like Max Kellerman, Jim Rome, Tony Kornheiser, and Tony Reali keep the average American boxing fan in the dark by feeding them these pathetic delusions about former black champions which wouldn't last but a few moments in the ring with the likes of Wlad, Sultan, Oleg, and Ruslan. Best of luck to them all, and to any future heavyweight champions from former soviet republics...You great men are responsible my resurgent interest in the sport.

 

[Charles Martel]

That's not what I'm saying at all, Nevada! Are you trolling here? You sound like a black man.

There's lots of white men in North America who could beat Shannon Briggs, but they would never have the opportunity to face him (lots of black boxers would beat him too). Because of the caste system in North American sports, white athletes are to a great extent kept out of boxing. Whites face an irrational belief (it seems like you believe it too) that whites are innately inferior athletes. I believe whites would dominate sports in North America if we had the same opportunities that whites have in Eastern Europe.

But if you don't recognize that Wladimir Klitschko is a great athlete, then you must be a troll.

 

[Bart]

Some boxing fans make out the best boxers to be great athletes, but right now that's just not the case at heavyweight or cruiserweight.

I would think the new breed of white boxers and heavy weights in particular would match up quite well athletically with those of preceding eras. Many of them are quick, strong, and very agile. More importantly, they can fight! A boxer does not need to to be able to sprint 100 meters under 11 seconds or be able to jump 3 feet in the air. Many of this planet's best athletes would never be able to compete favorably against good fighters. Why??Because boxing is just not equivalent to baseball, basketball, sprinting, swimming, football, gymnastics, tennis, high jumping etc.Joe Frazier competed in the Super Stars competitions and was absolutely horrible. He wasn't the only boxer who performed poorly in comparison to other athletes. Yet, I am sure that he and all the other boxers would have crushed all theathleticSuper Star champions in the ring.


Some guys can fight and others can't.Nobody ever accused Two Ton Tony Galento of being a great athlete, but he could fight. He lived in saloons, was fat and always looked way out of shape, yet he floored Joe Louis in a title fight because hecould throw leather. Also, if you can't take a punch, it matters little how athletic you are.


Klitschko happens to be an excellent athlete who can fight very, very well. As is the case with many white fighters, such as Calzaghe , Kessler, Hatton and many others. Edited by: Bart

 

[Don Wassall]

Because of the caste system in North American sports, white athletes are to a great extent kept out of boxing. Whites face an irrational belief (it seems like you believe it too) that whites are innately inferior athletes. I believe whites would dominate sports in North America if we had the same opportunities that whites have in Eastern Europe.

Very true. The fanatical adherence to the Caste System is why the U.S. is fast becoming a third rate power in sports. Boxing is aimed at recruiting blacks and hispanics, same with baseball. Other than swimming, top-notch white American athletes are becoming a rarity in international competition. Look at the French Open in tennis -- the Americans other than she-man Serena Williams (who lasted a few rounds) were all immediately eliminated from contention.


The one thing the current power structure will never do is try to help out whites in anything, sports or otherwise, nor will it ever let up on its psywar to condition whites in defeatism and believing they're evil and inferior to other races. Edited by: Don Wassall

 

[Angelcynn]

When people talk about the so called 'golden era of boxing' I don't think they take into account that Eastern Europeans never featured becuase they were still a communist state in exile (as JD1986 mentioned). It's Something that the American media will never mention because that would degrade the achievements of the supposidly supior African American boxers. I can honestly say there was nothing overly special about any of those golden era boxers apart from Ali who was (you can't deny it) something extemely special and after the golden era Tyson was the only one who stood out. As for the rest of them, they wouldn't dominate this division at all, infact they'd struggle!

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Are my posts not getting through? I said that same thing about Soviet block fighters not being allowed on the scene during the "Ali" era.

 

[Bart]

Are my posts not getting through? I said that same thing about Soviet block fighters not being allowed on the scene during the "Ali" era.

I read your post and agreed with it. We often reitierate what other posters have written.

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Thanks Bart.

 

[white is right]

Some boxing fans make out the best boxers to be great athletes, but right now that's just not the case at heavyweight or cruiserweight.

I would think the new breed of white boxers and heavy weights in particular would match up quite well athletically with those of preceding eras. Many of them are quick, strong, and very agile. More importantly, they can fight! A boxer does not need to to be able to sprint 100 meters under 11 seconds or be able to jump 3 feet in the air. Many of this planet's best athletes would never be able to compete favorably against good fighters. Why?? Because boxing is just not equivalent to baseball, basketball, sprinting, swimming, football, gymnastics, tennis, high jumping etc. Joe Frazier competed in the Super Stars competitions and was absolutely horrible. He wasn't the only boxer who performed poorly in comparison to other athletes. Yet, I am sure that he and all the other boxers would have crushed all the athletic Super Star champions in the ring.


Some guys can fight and others can't. Nobody ever accused Two Ton Tony Galento of being a great athlete, but he could fight. He lived in saloons, was fat and always looked way out of shape, yet he floored Joe Louis in a title fight because he could throw leather. Also, if you can't take a punch, it matters little how athletic you are.


Klitschko happens to be an excellent athlete who can fight very, very well. As is the case with many white fighters, such as Calzaghe , Kessler, Hatton and many others.

Joe Frazier needed to wear floaties when he swam in the superstars competition. I still think he wears them when he goes to the beach....

 

[white is right]

I have a different take on things. I don't think there are that many great 200 pound athletes in boxing, white or black. Some boxing fans make out the best boxers to be great athletes, but right now that's just not the case at heavyweight or cruiserweight.The best boxers at heavyweight and cruiserweight are good athletes, but they're not awesome, and boxing is losing talent to other sports. It's definitely true. Forget black athletes, the best white athletes do not go into boxing. I don't see how anybody with an decent background in sports science can look at the belt holders and contenders at heavyweight and cruiserweight and think that they are great athletes. I see guys like Briggs and Toney and shake my head.There are more good 200 pound athletes in wrestling and team sports. Pretty soon there will be more good 200 pound athletes in MMA.

I think Jr Klitschko could hang athletically with all of the great champs of the past. He has excellent hand speed, power and footwork. Some of the other champions aren't great athletes per say but have great boxing knowledge and have intangibles that compensate for the lack of obvious athleticism. Maskaev won his title because his new trainer taught him how to fight more American. When he beat Rahman he landed the left hook at will because Rahman didn't know he had one.

 

[Angelcynn]

Sorry about that White noise I was ment to include you aswell, my bad.

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Thats very cricket of you old boy. Thanks Englishman.

 

[onewarrior5]

If there were NO communism during the "Ali" era there would be NO, so called greatest of all time "Ali."

 

[Angelcynn]

I don't know about that onewarrior5. You just can't deny the fact that Ali was one special boxer. He had it all and that is a fact. However It would've been much tougher for him had there been Eastern European cometition.

 

[Solomon Kane]

That's true, Englishman. Ali was a vain showboating jerk---but a very good boxer. He fought many fine boxers both white and black--Cooper, Bonavena, Quarry, Frazier, Foreman.

Still we're all agreed--if there had been no cold war--there would have been no "era of the black boxer" (at least no long era).

 

[Charles Martel]

White heavyweight Cooper was beating Ali when he was cut by what looked like an intentional headbutt.

Wlad would easily defeat prime Ali (he does well against that style of fighter) although I'm not sure if Wlad would defeat a prime Foreman (he's had some difficult fights against power punchers like Sanders).