The Combine and Pro Days -- the Caste System by the Numbers

[dolphins15]

I wanted to document Jacob Hester. Hester was the starting RB on LSU's 2007 National Championship team. He was drafted in the 3rd round to be primarily a FB. LSU has been a RB factory for the NFL with every year having someone on the NFL radar. Hester pretty much fits right in with all of the other RB's from LSU except he was the only one asked to play FB in the NFL. He was drafted higher and had a longer career then some of these guys I will list but thats not the point. The point is he put up similar stats at the same school playing in the same conference and has similar measurable but he was THE ONLY one asked to be FB.

I just put their best season stats on here.

Jacob Hester- 5'11" 226 4.61 40, 6.85 3 cone, 4.24 short shuttle, 29" vert, and 9'3" broad. 225 carries 1,103 yards and 12 TD's.

Charles Scott-5'11" 228, 4.65 40, 6.98 3 cone, 4.47 short shuttle, 30.5" vert, N/A broad, 217 carries, 1,174 yards 18 TD's.

Stevan Ridley- 5'11" 225, 4.65 40, 6.78 3 cone, 4.21 short shuttle, 36" vert, 9'10 broad, 249 carries, 1,147 yards and 15 TD's

Spencer Ware- 5'10" 228, 4.62 40, 7.07 3 cone, 4.27 short shuttle, 35.5 vert, 9'11" broad. 177 carries, 707 yards and 8 TD's. His are pro day numbers

Alfred Blue- 6'2' 223, 4.63 40, 7.15 3 cone, 4.50 short shuttle, 32" vert, 10'1" broad. 78 carries, 539 yards and 7 TD's

Jeremy Hill- 6'0" 233, 4.66 40, N/A 3 cone, N/A shirt shuttle, 29" vert, 9'4" broad. 203 carries, 1,401 yards and 16 TD's.

 

[Bucky]

Bump!

 

[SneakyQuick]

Would it be worthwhile to post guidelines on what the optimal measurables would be, by position? Obviously it will vary by size but like for instance does it really make a huge difference between 4.4 and 4.5 in the 40 for a wideout or does the shuttle stuff matter more?

also do these combines and pro days really measure what matters?


For example, to what extent do harder to measure skills (like the hand eye coordination needed to catch a football, or of the wonderlics ability to predict good decision making ability in skill positions) get

 

[HaywoodZarathustra]

Those wonderlic scores certainly should be taken into consideration. I can still never forget what LeGarrette Blount
did in a game. I can't even recall which team he played for or who his team was playing, but it was late in the game and Blount's team had 4th down and needed about a foot to convert. Blount took the handoff and instead of moving the pile he ran laterally trying to get around his tackle and tight end and lost 5 yards. I don't know how a coach could even in good faith keep someone that fuzzy headed and selfish on his team.

 

[Leonardfan]

Would it be worthwhile to post guidelines on what the optimal measurables would be, by position? Obviously it will vary by size but like for instance does it really make a huge difference between 4.4 and 4.5 in the 40 for a wideout or does the shuttle stuff matter more?

also do these combines and pro days really measure what matters?


For example, to what extent do harder to measure skills (like the hand eye coordination needed to catch a football, or of the wonderlics ability to predict good decision making ability in skill positions) get

Not trying to be sarcastic but it honestly doesn’t matter when you apply measurables to White athletes. They can jump out of the gym and be very good productive football players but still slip through the cracks.

 

[Rocky B]

I say post as much as possible so the slower kids can catch up...Post results on other platforms....People need to see this crap...We appreciate newer posters getting involved, dig into this stuff....There’s a reason why the top white wideouts (Kupp, Thielen and Renfrow) in football didn’t get a D1 scholarship out of high school.....Most schools take a hard pass at these guys...They figure they can pay their way in and walk on , while putting on scholarship the inner city kids....The running back stats are pathetic....

 

[SneakyQuick]

I’m sure Cooper kupp is a great overall athlete and clearly the best receiver in the league yet he is an eastern Washington grad? If even Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 40 I guess I just can’t help but think these guys are looking at the wrong things when they recruit.

both those players went to a small school, both were athletic but also bright.

I guess I’m just saying that the 40 time is likely overrated as a predictor of success for both black and white wideouts. Biggest difference being black athletes are more likely to be given a pass if they don’t excel in the 40.

if white players want to be recruited more they can try to publicize their skills better but I’d think that in addition someone needs to first recognize the value of what white athletes tend to bring (intelligence, delayed gratification, good decision making, hand eye coordination etc)

 

[Rocky B]

I’m sure Cooper kupp is a great overall athlete and clearly the best receiver in the league yet he is an eastern Washington grad? If even Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 40 I guess I just can’t help but think these guys are looking at the wrong things when they recruit.

both those players went to a small school, both were athletic but also bright.

I guess I’m just saying that the 40 time is likely overrated as a predictor of success for both black and white wideouts. Biggest difference being black athletes are more likely to be given a pass if they don’t excel in the 40.

if white players want to be recruited more they can try to publicize their skills better but I’d think that in addition someone needs to first recognize the value of what white athletes tend to bring (intelligence, delayed gratification, good decision making, hand eye coordination etc)

There’s no one in the league or networks that will admit to things like intelligence and decision making.....Everyone is equal when it comes to that stuff....Athleticism, everyone is not equal and is apparent by recruitment.....ugghhhh

 

[SneakyQuick]

It would be interesting to see what a combine would look like that emphasized some sort of all around athleticism including the decision making skills that we said above.

For those of you who know this better than I do, what would the ideal attributes be for the three biggest caste positions? WR, RB, CB (and let’s face it QB is next).

we know hand eye coordination and intelligence are correlated so perhaps laying out some sort pro day or combine workout that emphasized these things might be a way to give the actual underserved athletes a better chance.

another example is vision: I’ve heard it said here many times how important vision is to RB’s. Perhaps there is a better way to showcase it .
If so, what would it be?

if the way the testing is being done now doesn’t favor us, but w social media it’s possible to highlight skills in other ways, thought this could help?

At a minimum it would make for an interesting discussion