The amazing Doctor Klitschko brothers

[Westside]

If either Klitscko brother had fought Clay in his prime, the outcome would have what happened to a current talented black fighter; Eddie Chambers...KTFO!

I suspect the only modern excellent black fighters who could 'competitively hang' with the K Bros, but ultimately lose would be Larry Holmes in his prime. George Foreman would also have a 'remote' luckily punchers chance.

Lennox Lewis would also be quite competitive with either as demonstrated by his close fight with Vitali before it was stopped due to a horrendous cut to Vitali.

This tired theory of young athletic men: code for black, playing in the NFL or NBA is bullsh*t. Most know they have no chance or heart to beat the Euros who have the build of many power forwards in the NBA.

 

[Charles Martel]

Some of Wlad's first round KOs:

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNrmwt80F14[/tube]

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0WCshc3kds[/tube]

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsCmaUdRCxA[/tube]

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWlxqfWsS74[/tube]

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gozqve2ANl0[/tube]

 

[space hillbilly]

Wow! Big hit in the Lampkins fight!!

Edited by: lost

 

[warhawk46]

sorry guys. you are wrong about the talent level of the modern heavyweights in America. They simply are not where it was in the 70s, 80s and 90s.<div>
</div><div>Never once did I say the Klitchkos could not beat anyone from any era. They absolutely could, and likely would beat any previous great on any given night. From Americans' perspective they are boring fighters who should knock every fighter they face (since most they face are not that good) out within the first couple rounds. Instead, they box smartly and use their decided reach/height advantage to slowly break down their opponents. It is highly effective and why they have not lose for some time and will not lose for some time further. But it does not make for killer instinct which is what Americans want their heavyweights to have.</div><div>
</div><div>Westside you are way off base in regards to what I was saying too: In boxing's case the elite white athletes in America are playing in the NFL (or have moved on to the business world since they did not get a fair shake in the NFL due to the caste system). Brian Urlacher, had he trained as a boxer his whole life, would no doubt be one of the top fighters in the world. Same goes for Peyton Hillis, Jared Allen etc.</div><div>
</div><div>But they play football bc it is more popular and the odds of making great money is much better. Sure Mayweather and Pacquio make millions every fight. But they are at the very top of the sport. The top 1%. Most boxers wont even sniff a six-figure payday. If you are an elite athlete who enjoys contact sports, football or basketball is the safe sport to go to. You have unions to ensure even minimum-wage is in the top 5% of all Americans. In boxing there are literally no guarantees like that.</div><div>
</div><div>I think you guys need to read a post thoroughly before attacking it.</div><div>
</div><div>Also, boxing is a sport where just being bigger doesn't make you better. Punching power, essential to heavyweights, is not something that a bigger guy automatically has. I question how many have actually gotten in the ring, even at the amateur level. Boxing, more so than other sports, is about skills not talent. Skills that need to be cultivated over years of practice.</div><div>
</div><div>The Klit brothers may have dual citizenship but they are not seen as American. Trust me. They are seen as Russian-style fighters, and that is the reason they are not embraced by American society. For a sport that has been constantly looking for the "Great White Heavyweight Hope," it goes without saying that the person must be American as well.</div><div>
</div><div>Wladimer is 6'6", 240 lbs. Foreman, with likely the heaviest hands in HW history, was 6'4" 230ish lbs in his prime. Not much smaller by any means. Frazier was 5'11", 210 lbs... but had an iron chin and one of the greatest left hooks ever. Mike Tyson was 5'10", 220 lbs in his prime but had faster hands than any heavyweight in history (Ali, I believe, is waaay overrated. He never sat down on his punches which made his hands seem faster than they were... he was content to show of his speed pitty-patting. Not nearly as impressive as Mike Tyson). Plus Tyson's power is one of the best ever as well.</div><div>
</div><div>Wladimer has some of the best power out of any champion. Ever. He is an all-time great already and not close to being done. His only problem is the lack of good heavyweights to fight. David Haye? Please. He is pussy trash-talker. Arreola? A fat slob. Peter? No skills whatsoever and not near the power Foreman had.</div><div>Eddie Chambers couldn't hurt a fly. he has no power.</div><div>
</div><div>It is unfortunate for the Klitschko brothers they are fighting in this era. Hopefully a guy like Adamek taking a fight against them and giving a good showing will raise interest for them in America.</div>

 

[space hillbilly]

Warhawk, do you really believe Ken Norton was better than todays heavyweights?
a man who was down 16 times in his career,

 

[warhawk46]

Whitelightening, I think you are mistaken. Obviously, this is only my opinion and I wholly respect yours. You cited Chavez, Pacquio, etc. They are/were very popular in the US. But they are small men.<div>
</div><div>When I talk about the sad state of boxing in America, I am only speaking about the heavyweight division. The vast majority of other divisions are going very strong.</div><div>
</div><div>White athletes are marginalized by our media. It happens so often and it makes me sick. It is why I discovered this forum through my research and why I finally decided to post. Awareness of this both blatant and subconscious racism needs to be raised by yelling out from the top of every roof-top we can.</div><div>
</div><div>But boxing is different. The NBA (which sees its ratings decline year after year since Stern mandated it become the hip-hop thug basketball association) still has some whites that people are cheering for. Kevin Love is absolutely DOMINATING the NBA like no one has seen for nearly a quarter century.</div><div>
</div><div>The NFL still has whites dominate the most important position, QB. The QB is the most visible and they are the golden boys of the league. While many elite white athletes are never given a chance, we still do have some standouts who dominate. Jared Allen at DE... Urlacher, Laurenitus or Matthews at LB for example... Hillis finally got a chance and dominated at RB... Welker at WR... Weddle at Safety.</div><div>All the above players (and others not metioned) are the top or near the top of their position in the NFL.</div><div>
</div><div>So the media (and GMs and owners) can still feed their white-guilt by by having majority black teams, while still reaching a large fanbase by having token whites to appease.</div><div>
</div><div>Boxing is constantly looking for the Great White Hope in the heavyweight division. Tommy Morrison was very good in the mid-90s but contracted HIV and retired. He was heavily hyped and liked... because he was both white AND American. And he fought a very crowd-pleasing style</div><div>
</div><div>Wladimer (who I consider the better of the two brothers) fought a very action-oriented, crowd-pleasing style until he suffered a couple of KOs. The Manny Steward changed his style to feature his powerful jab more and fight more cautiously. He has been absolutely dominant since, but his style is not as exciting to the average fan. That hurts him.</div><div>
</div><div>But again, everyone must understand that it is because they are not American that they are not praised by US critics or been embraced by US fight fans. They are two of the greatest heavyweights in history but their lack of quality opposition hurts their popularity too.</div><div>
</div><div>The same thing has been said about Tyson (although he was insanely popular) and his lack of great opposition during the late 80s. Now that he is retired for several years, boxing critics are starting to realize his greatness more. The same will happen to the Klitschkos once they are gone for a few years... they will be much more appreciated.</div><div>
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[warhawk46]

No, not at all. I consider Ken Norton to have had a weak chin. He had pretty decent boxing skills, but he couldn't take a punch.<div>
</div><div>My Polish hero Adamek is a small heavyweight by today's standards, yet he moved up from cruiser and is dominating. He, at least to me, is clearly the best heavyweight not named Klitschko out there. He is the total package as a fighter. Fast hands, good power, excellent beard, athletic feet... an elite athlete who also has elite skills. If you haven't before, check out his fights. Plus a very crowd-pleasing style.</div><div>
</div><div>Another heavyweight to watch out for is Denis Boytsov. He is in his early twenties, but undefeated and possesses the fastest heavyweight hands I've seen since Tyson. He runs about 6'1" and 220 lbs. On the small side, but he is knocking out much larger, less talented men.</div><div>
</div><div>I truly feel that the elite European heavyweights of today (Klitschkos, Adamek, Boytsov, Layokovich etc) could hang with absolutely any era in history. For example, I would say all of the above would beat Norton handily.</div><div>
</div><div>Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I meant to be when I wrote the heavyweights of today are bad; I meant the American heavyweights. The elite Eastern Europeans can bang with anybody anywhere... anytime.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

 

[whiteathlete33]

No, not at all. I consider Ken Norton to have had a weak chin. He had pretty decent boxing skills, but he couldn't take a punch.<div>
</div><div>My Polish hero Adamek is a small heavyweight by today's standards, yet he moved up from cruiser and is dominating. He, at least to me, is clearly the best heavyweight not named Klitschko out there. He is the total package as a fighter. Fast hands, good power, excellent beard, athletic feet... an elite athlete who also has elite skills. If you haven't before, check out his fights. Plus a very crowd-pleasing style.</div><div>
</div><div>Another heavyweight to watch out for is Denis Boytsov. He is in his early twenties, but undefeated and possesses the fastest heavyweight hands I've seen since Tyson. He runs about 6'1" and 220 lbs. On the small side, but he is knocking out much larger, less talented men.</div><div>
</div><div>I truly feel that the elite European heavyweights of today (Klitschkos, Adamek, Boytsov, Layokovich etc) could hang with absolutely any era in history. For example, I would say all of the above would beat Norton handily.</div><div>
</div><div>Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I meant to be when I wrote the heavyweights of today are bad; I meant the American heavyweights. The elite Eastern Europeans can bang with anybody anywhere... anytime.</div><div>
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</div>

I suspect at least twenty white heavyweights today could have beaten guys like Ali. Take a fighter like Boystov for instance. He would be way too powerful for Ali.

 

[space hillbilly]

The reason the media use propaganda is because it works, but if you can get away from it you'll see todays Amercian heavyweights are just as good as the 70's, Calvin Brock like Jerry Quarry was an all around fighter with a good jab, power in both hands and a good chin. if you know anything
about boxing history you know Eddie Chambers is not behined Jimmy Ellis, and Sam Peter, andi know hes not Amercian! but hes just as big, just strong and hit just as hard as George Foreman.
and how much better was Ali than Chris Byrd? was Ken Noton that much better than Davarryl Williamson? it's just all media propaganda.....

 

[FootballDad]

I can give you guys another, more subtle, reason for the "unpopularity" of the Klitschko brothers in the USA. As sophomoric as it may sound (and who is more sophomoric than a DWF?), the movie "Rocky IV". Most casual boxing DWF's I've spoken to look at both Wladimir and Vitali as the virtual incarnations of Dolph Lungren's "Ivan Drago" character in the movie. Amazing, yes, surprising, no.

 

[whiteathlete33]

I can give you guys another, more subtle, reason for the "unpopularity" of the Klitschko brothers in the USA. As sophomoric as it may sound (and who is more sophomoric than a DWF?), the movie "Rocky IV". Most casual boxing DWF's I've spoken to look at both Wladimir and Vitali as the virtual incarnations of Dolph Lungren's "Ivan Drago" character in the movie. Amazing, yes, surprising, no.

FootballDad, that's very true. Rocky IV created a us vs them mentality among the DWF's of boxing. They will root for any American negro versus a Russian Or eastern European fighter.

I always wondered why Stallone became freinds with Appollo in the later Rocky movies. I know Rocky has been labeled as a "racist" movie since it shows a white guy living a pipe dream and beating magical negroes in the boxing ring, something that was impossible according to the media and DWF"s. I guess he did it to silence his critics that though the movies were racist.

I once had a conversation with a black guy about the Klitschko brothers. He refused to acknowledge that these guys are white. He said they are "blacks guys that look white." Whatever that means.
Edited by: whiteathlete33

 

[space hillbilly]

I can give you guys another, more subtle, reason for the "unpopularity" of the Klitschko brothers in the USA. As sophomoric as it may sound (and who is more sophomoric than a DWF?), the movie "Rocky IV". Most casual boxing DWF's I've spoken to look at both Wladimir and Vitali as the virtual incarnations of Dolph Lungren's "Ivan Drago" character in the movie. Amazing, yes, surprising, no.

FootballDad, that's very true. Rocky IV created a us vs them mentality among the DWF's of boxing. They will root for any American negro versus a Russian Or eastern European fighter.

I once had a conversation with a black guy about the Klitschko brothers. He refused to acknowledge that these guys are white. He said they are "blacks guys that look white." Whatever that means.

HAHa! that's a good one Whiteathlete!

I remember the media around 2005 started saying the Klitschkos were jewish and not really white Europeans,
until photo were posted on their website showing them at home in front of a Christmas tree!

and they also stopped training for Orthodox Easter. but the best one was then the media started trying to push the ideal that they are latinos

......

 

[whiteathlete33]

I can give you guys another, more subtle, reason for the "unpopularity" of the Klitschko brothers in the USA. As sophomoric as it may sound (and who is more sophomoric than a DWF?), the movie "Rocky IV". Most casual boxing DWF's I've spoken to look at both Wladimir and Vitali as the virtual incarnations of Dolph Lungren's "Ivan Drago" character in the movie. Amazing, yes, surprising, no.

FootballDad, that's very true. Rocky IV created a us vs them mentality among the DWF's of boxing. They will root for any American negro versus a Russian Or eastern European fighter.

I once had a conversation with a black guy about the Klitschko brothers. He refused to acknowledge that these guys are white. He said they are "blacks guys that look white." Whatever that means.

HAHa! that's a good one Whiteathlete!

<div>I remember the media around 2005 started saying the Klitschkos were jewish and not really white Europeans,</div>
<div>until photo were posted on their website showing them at home in front of a Christmas tree!

</div>
<div>and they also stopped training for Orthodox Easter. but the best one was then the media started trying to push the ideal that they are latinos

......</div>

Yep. White Europeans can't be athletic according to the media. BTW, my neighbor told me he heard on the Polish radio that Adamek had already signed a contract to fight one of the Klitschko brothers. I can't find any evidence of this on the net though.

 

[space hillbilly]

I can give you guys another, more subtle, reason for the "unpopularity" of the Klitschko brothers in the USA. As sophomoric as it may sound (and who is more sophomoric than a DWF?), the movie "Rocky IV". Most casual boxing DWF's I've spoken to look at both Wladimir and Vitali as the virtual incarnations of Dolph Lungren's "Ivan Drago" character in the movie. Amazing, yes, surprising, no.

FootballDad, that's very true. Rocky IV created a us vs them mentality among the DWF's of boxing. They will root for any American negro versus a Russian Or eastern European fighter.

I once had a conversation with a black guy about the Klitschko brothers. He refused to acknowledge that these guys are white. He said they are "blacks guys that look white." Whatever that means.

HAHa! that's a good one Whiteathlete!

I remember the media around 2005 started saying the Klitschkos were jewish and not really white Europeans,
until photo were posted on their website showing them at home in front of a Christmas tree!

and they also stopped training for Orthodox Easter. but the best one was then the media started trying to push the ideal that they are latinos

......

Yep. White Europeans can't be athletic according to the media. BTW, my neighbor told me he heard on the Polish radio that Adamek had already signed a contract to fight one of the Klitschko brothers. I can't find any evidence of this on the net though.

Yes! the fight is signed, I'll be pulling for Adamek!!!

http://www.boxingscene.com/klitschko-haye-adamek-only-big-names-left--35219

 

[space hillbilly]

Here's a fair article on Vitali Klitschko

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=29752&more=1

 

[whiteathlete33]

That's an excellent article, Spacehillbilly. It's so sad that most of the drunk white fans and media will never see it that way.

 

[celticdb15]

Interesting 1st Heavyweight with a PHD!!

 

[Crixus]

Not since Babe Ruth dominated baseball in the 1920's has any athlete so
dominated their sport as the amazing Doctor Klitschko brothers do the
heavyweight division today!
ww

I would kindly disagree with this comment.

Fedor for over 10 years in the MMA
Michael Phelps winning 8 gold medals at the Olympics of 2008
Lance Armstrong winning 7 tour de France in a row
Roger Federer for 5-6 years
Hate to say it, but Joe Louis reign was pretty impressive.
Michael Schumaher in F-1
Sebastien Loeb in WRC (and he's still active)
Valentino Rossi in Moto GP
Leo Messi currently
ALEXANDER KARELIN, who won 3 gold Olympic medals and 8 world titles and was undefeated for 13 years

I am sure there are others.

Of course Babe Ruth and the Klitschkos belong to my long list too, but you did mention them already.

 

[werewolf]

Here's a fair article on Vitali Klitschko

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=29752&more=1

I certainly agree with his conclusion:

"But now we have a great heavyweight champion who does it all. Vitali Klitschko, The Greatest of All Time!"

One extremely important thing he left off was that the hyped up negro heavyweight champs of the past - Clay alias Ali, Louis, etc., they never even fought one Russian or eastern European, or black African or Cuban either for that matter. They need asterisks next to their name. And not only do the amazing K's win every fight against any and all comers from all over the world, many previously unbeaten, but as he said they win virtually every round doing so - and they have become so great that they rarely even get their hair mussed in the process!




ww

 

[FootballDad]

Here at my hotel, I was just thumbing through the HBO guide and noticed that they had a special documentary this month about the Klitschko brothers. It airs again tomorrow, but I'll be long gone by then. Anybody have a chance to see and review it? I was actually shocked to see that HBO had produced something about the greatest heavyweight champs in history.

 

[Amren.com]

Here at my hotel, I was just thumbing through the HBO guide and noticed that they had a special documentary this month about the Klitschko brothers. It airs again tomorrow, but I'll be long gone by then. Anybody have a chance to see and review it? I was actually shocked to see that HBO had produced something about the greatest heavyweight champs in history.

HBO didn't create it. It was done separate from them. It is callled Klitschko.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Klitschko-Blu-ray/38670/

 

[The Hock]

I've watched it three times. Some good insight into the dynamics of the bother's relationship. How at one point Vlad had to ban big brother Vitaly from his training camp because Vitaly was acting like, well, a big brother. Don King's attempt to con them into signing a contract. When "Only in America" tried to impress them by playing some Mozart on the piano, Vitaly noticed that the foot pedals were moving by themselves. Their Air Force Colonel father was part of the Chernobyl clean-up team. Vlad has never really liked Vitaly's style, too "cowboy" for Vlad's taste.

And a bunch of other interesting stuff.

Okay, so I'm not Roger Ebert. But I do recommend the movie.

 

[whiteathlete33]

I've watched it three times. Some good insight into the dynamics of the bother's relationship. How at one point Vlad had to ban big brother Vitaly from his training camp because Vitaly was acting like, well, a big brother. Don King's attempt to con them into signing a contract. When "Only in America" tried to impress them by playing some Mozart on the piano, Vitaly noticed that the foot pedals were moving by themselves. Their Air Force Colonel father was part of the Chernobyl clean-up team. Vlad has never really liked Vitaly's style, too "cowboy" for Vlad's taste.

And a bunch of other interesting stuff.

Okay, so I'm not Roger Ebert. But I do recommend the movie.

It's a good thing they never got involved with King. That crook would have screwed them out of loads of money and who knows how their careers would pan out with that lunatic behind the scenes. Then again, few white fighters are dumb enough to do business with that clown. I can only imagine how much money King conned out of Mike Tyson who was as dumb as an ox.

 

[white is right]

It's a good thing they never got involved with King. That crook would have screwed them out of loads of money and who knows how their careers would pan out with that lunatic behind the scenes. Then again, few white fighters are dumb enough to do business with that clown. I can only imagine how much money King conned out of Mike Tyson who was as dumb as an ox.

I saw a copy with subtitles. What the movie covered was top notch. I just found a few controversial things about the careers of Wlad and Vitali were glossed over or I would have given this movie a 9.5 to a 10. His loss to Brewster should have been discussed and the possible poisoning or the theory of too much vaseline on his body due to Joe Souza. Also the Sanders lost could have been discussed more. I also would have liked to see the controversy of the cut against Lewis being discussed too. Ps. Tyson was reportedly screwed out of 150 million gross by King with his double dipping with his step son Carl. He also took kick backs from business deals on properties that were sold to Tyson at inflated prices.

 

[werewolf]

"I also would have liked to see the controversy of the cut against Lewis being discussed too."

There was really no controversy about that. Lewis deliberately sliced open Vitali's face with his glove laces and steel wool hair. He should have been disqualified.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380190

I haven't seen the film yet.