Super affletic black corners?

[NDfootball06]

are you seriously using the speed ratings in a video game as a legitimate source? i don't know how to convey how stupid that is. hell, you contradict your "legitimate" source by saying, "(4.5) is a great time for his size and there are many black safeties that don't run that fast" while also saying, "McGraw was consistantly (sic) rated as one of the slower safeties in the league." which is it? i mean, really? pfft.

i got the 4.3 time from his Pro Day performance which was confirmed to me via email by multiple draft sites, including but not limited to the site i prefer: DraftDaddy. i hope that is good enough for you.



who is this "us" of which you speak? and all you have to do is watch old game tape and you can see McGraw's speed is clearly superior to most other players on the field. this is especially evident when he's on special teams, where he has spent a lot of time during his caste-plagued career.



feel free to bark up whatever tree you wish to find. maybe McGraw should've been a big corner, especially considering various coaches and reporters over the years have raved about his man coverage ability during practice. one wonders why he's not had opportunities to showcase those skills during game situations. oh, i guess it's because he's tall. thanks for the insight. and he was only about 200 pounds or so coming out of college, as if that's important.



Weddle isn't the highest paid safety in NFL history, either. do you even bother to think or research things for yourself? or do you just repeat one ridiculous claim you stumble across after another? Weddle's 5-year $40-million contract with $19-million guaranteed isn't the richest for a safety in League history. it wasn't even the richest safety contract signed that year. hell, it wasn't even the richest contract for a safety in the AFC West.

before he ever played a single snap in the NFL, Eric Berry (KC Chiefs) signed a 6-year $60-million contract with $34-million guaranteed.

please, if you're going to disagree with me, at least be correct so that i may learn something. will you?

but, i suppose i should be polite and ask ... who would be better examples to use for White athletes who were screwed out of playing corner in the League? how about Jeremy Unertl? or Tony Lukins? or Josh Golden? or Hal Hula? i mean, there is an abundant pool of cast(e) aside talent to choose from.

lastly, if you are indeed a sincere new member of Caste Football, then welcome. but don't buy into the media's mantra of White athletic ineptitude. and certainly don't try and spout some nonsense and expect me to accept it. the facts speak for themselves, if you look hard enough to find them. and around here, most of us look pretty damn hard.

Yes, I did use madden as a reason to question Jon McGraw's speed. I know this game discriminates against white athletes. I've been playing it for 13 years and I'm not that old. I've noticed Brian Leonard was rated as a 78 in speed, despite running a 4.49 at the 2007 NFL combine. Please notice I said 2007 NFL combine, not Draftdaddy, and not sources confirmed to me in "email".
This is also coming after the numerous reasons you say pro day 40 yard dash times are unreliable. Now I agree that the media may use 40 yard dash times when it is convienant to portray the super black athlete stereotype and overcheiving white stereotype. But that is an agenda, not facts. The facts are that Mcgraw ran a 4.5 40 at the combine dash. It is easier to use this statistic because no limp wristed analyst at ESPN can dispute this.

The "us" I speak of is the reason I made a username at castefootball. You should be easier on your newcomers, I have noticed discrimination against white players since I was rather young. It doesn't matter if I noticed it through the disparity in speed rating against white players in a video game or from watching the NFL live, I still ended up here supporting a cause and that's all that's what matters in my opinion.
Yes I misunderstood Eric Weddle's contract. If you search 'eric weddle's contract' on google there is an article saying that in terms of total salary per ear he is the highest payed safety in NFL history. I realized my source was wrong, it may have been lazy research and for that I apologize.
While I realize you are trying to look hard for numbers that don't discriminate; please take note of how the outside world views it. You're from a website for the benefit of white football players. You're quoting a site named DraftDaddy. It would be hard to convince anyone outside of this forum that you view these times objectively. That is why I feel it is easier to use combine times. Not because it belittles white safeties out of playing another position despite playing for 9 years, because I want to give outsiders objective information they can't possibly argue with.
I'm not asking you to accept anything, although I admit my information about Weddle's contract was incorrect. I'm asking you to think about how the outside world views it when you quote McGraw's pro day time from "DraftDaddy" and hold it against times of black players participating in the NFL combine.

If you need to know of my dedication to Castefootball, when I minimize this screen there is a picture of Peyton Hillis in a 22 Broncos uniform giving a salute.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Yes, I did use madden as a reason to question Jon McGraw's speed. I know this game discriminates against white athletes. I've been playing it for 13 years and I'm not that old. I've noticed Brian Leonard was rated as a 78 in speed, despite running a 4.49 at the 2007 NFL combine. Please notice I said 2007 NFL combine, not Draftdaddy, and not sources confirmed to me in "email".
This is also coming after the numerous reasons you say pro day 40 yard dash times are unreliable. Now I agree that the media may use 40 yard dash times when it is convienant to portray the super black athlete stereotype and overcheiving white stereotype. But that is an agenda, not facts. The facts are that Mcgraw ran a 4.5 40 at the combine dash. It is easier to use this statistic because no limp wristed analyst at ESPN can dispute this.

The "us" I speak of is the reason I made a username at castefootball. You should be easier on your newcomers, I have noticed discrimination against white players since I was rather young. It doesn't matter if I noticed it through the disparity in speed rating against white players in a video game or from watching the NFL live, I still ended up here supporting a cause and that's all that's what matters in my opinion.
Yes I misunderstood Eric Weddle's contract. If you search 'eric weddle's contract' on google there is an article saying that in terms of total salary per ear he is the highest payed safety in NFL history. I realized my source was wrong, it may have been lazy research and for that I apologize.
While I realize you are trying to look hard for numbers that don't discriminate; please take note of how the outside world views it. You're from a website for the benefit of white football players. You're quoting a site named DraftDaddy. It would be hard to convince anyone outside of this forum that you view these times objectively. That is why I feel it is easier to use combine times. Not because it belittles white safeties out of playing another position despite playing for 9 years, because I want to give outsiders objective information they can't possibly argue with.
I'm not asking you to accept anything, although I admit my information about Weddle's contract was incorrect. I'm asking you to think about how the outside world views it when you quote McGraw's pro day time from "DraftDaddy" and hold it against times of black players participating in the NFL combine.

If you need to know of my dedication to Castefootball, when I minimize this screen there is a picture of Peyton Hillis in a 22 Broncos uniform giving a salute.

Again, welcome aboard NDfootball06, I think I understand.

I try not to get too caught up in the legitimacy of 40 times, again most of my research is at the high-school level at this point, that's why I asked if pro-days were hand-timed or laser-timed.

I have warned many times not to get caught up in 40's, especially in high school where times are reported on Rivals. I don't where most of these kids get their times.

Most or 90% of the times reported on Rivals are from .15 to .40 off from an actual laser/eletronic timed combine. I personally witnessed last month at a NIKE 2 kids who had reported sub 4.5 times, like 4.47 and NIKE had them at 4.75 and 4.89.

I know if a kid runs a 4.4 once it can be hard to duplicate, but being .3-.4 off is a little suspect.

 

[dwid]

draftdaddy is a legit site and Chitwood doesn't make crap up for the hell of it so there is no reason to put " " around email. I welcome you to the site, but to imply that someone like Jimmy Chitwood doesn't know what he is talking about or is making stuff up is very disrespectful. He has put in a lot of work for this site and very knowledgeable.

Combine times aren't reliable either, if you had read what he had said, only the finish is electronic. Not to mention they have upgraded black player's speed and downgraded White players afterwards. Moreno is listed as 4.55 and 4.5 even and I distinctly remember it being a 4.62 because it was outrageous that someone slower and smaller was getting carries while Peyton Hillis sat on the bench. Brian Leonard is now listed at 4.52. During this year's combine they listed the fastest players from last year's combine, except they were all the unofficial times, not the real top ten. If they alter the times after the fact, how can I trust that the original times are correct in the first place? Either way these prospects only get to run twice at the combine, it shouldn't be set in stone what their speed is, it should be a guage to see if their timed speed matches what you see on the field, it shoudl only draw a red flag if it is super slow for the position. McGraw didn't run slow for a cornerback or safety, so it confirms what I see on the field, someone fast. They did test electronically from start to finish this year but didn't release it like I mentioned earlier. I think many fans would be shocked if these times were released. Anyway, those in control of the media can manipulate ANYTHING so it is going to be hard to argue any point regardless of where you get your information from. People STILL don't believe Matt Jones is 4.3 fast despite outrunning defenders in college with ease AND timing 4.37 at the combine. They don't believe that Kevin Curtis is really a 4.3 guy, despite running it at the combine. How are you supposed to argue with this? and then add on the fact that the media is altering times to suit their agenda, why should we throw out what a White player ran at a pro day? It is what it is. They go by pro days all the time for their guys, I see no reason for us not to either, especially since they refuse to invite many fast White guys even if they were very productive in college, yet someone loike Kahlil Bell gets one. Where was Jeremy Ebert? Jake Sharp etc? How are you going to argue when plenty of our best athletes don't have combine times? How are you going to argue when they changed Peyton's time from 4.59 to 4.64 when he got popular as a Halfback? How are you going to argue for Toby Gerhart, because they never mentioned an "offical time", just an unofficial one, since nfl.com listed the top 10 and he wasn't on there, the last was McClulster with 4.58, everyone was saying he was a 4.6 guy despite multiple sources confirming 4.53 and 4.55, even the anti White Scott Wright who knew people in the building. Where did his official time go?

By the way, the year he ran the 4.5, many prospects refused to run because there was speculation that the set up that year would lead to slow times, and many top prospects had dissapointing times.

Jon McGraw

Height:	75 inches
Weight:	208 pounds
Wonderlic:	N/A
Position:	SS
College:	Kansas State
Draft Class:	2002

Measurables

40 Yard Dash:	4.50 seconds
20 Yard Dash:	2.63 seconds
10 Yard Dash:	1.54 seconds
Bench Press:	13 reps (225 lb)

Vertical Leap:	39.5 inches
Broad Jump:	126 inches
Shuttle:	3.92
Three Cone:	6.51

can you guess who this second prospect is?

Height:	75 inches
Weight:	213 pounds
Wonderlic:	N/A
Position:	CB
College:	California
Draft Class:	2003

Measurables

40 Yard Dash:	4.45 seconds
20 Yard Dash:	2.66 seconds
10 Yard Dash:	1.60 seconds
Bench Press:	16 reps (225 lb)

Vertical Leap:	37.5 inches
Broad Jump:	124 inches
Shuttle:	N/A
Three Cone:	N/A

is .05 really that much of a difference? not really
the player is...............Nnamdi Asomugha

I looked it up on the site, Sean Smith actually measured in at 76 inches, so he is 6'4, so he would be one of the tallest corners in the league.There is also a 6'4 cornerback that made the pro bowl last year, well as a replacement, Brandon Browner with the Seahawks, weighs 221 pounds. Ran a 4.63 at the combine, a terrible 10 yard split though, 1.67, had 6 picks last year. And its actually harder to play safety than it is corner, unless you are as slow as a linebacker. This is why I am worried about Hardin, it might take a while to transition, Even though Weddle was mostly a a corner, he played a little safety in college, Malcolm Jenkins played little safety in college as well and struggled with the transition, but he transitioned after failing to play well as a cornerback.

 

[white defensive back]

I think you guys were a little hard on NDfootball06, I didn't get the feeling he was dissing anyone or trying to spread misinformation. There are a lot of statistics out there, and like Mark Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Lets give the newbies some slack, its good to have more input on the board even if it brings up some arguing back and forth.

What ? Caste Football Gurus being hard on a newbie. Say it ain't so Joe. lol Thank god I am a guru now. Well sort of.

 

[seattlefan]

I think in general this information tells me that:

1. Black NFL and College football corners are not as athletic as we are led to believe.

2. White players do not lack the athleticism to play corner.

3. You don't need 4.3 speed to excel at corner, since there are black corners who run in the 4.5 range and slower that can still cover receivers.

It would be interesting to hear the DWF response to this information about corner 40 times, who typically claim white players lack the athleticism to play the position.

 

[Tom Iron]

The athlete/moron, antonio cromartie just had his 10th baby by his 8th woman in the 6th state. There should be some sort of raffle to pick how long after his "career" in the nfl is over until he makes it to the gutter/slammer. My money says he'll get there within a year.

Tom Iron...

 

[white is right]

The athlete/moron, antonio cromartie just had his 10th baby by his 8th woman in the 6th state. There should be some sort of raffle to pick how long after his "career" in the nfl is over until he makes it to the gutter/slammer. My money says he'll get there within a year.

Tom Iron...

It might happen while he is playing. Look at Travis Henry he needed advances from the Broncos to avoid the slammer, so he came up with the brilliant idea of moving cocaine by the kilo during the off season.....:huh:

 

[white is right]

Mulatto Joe Hayden was a first round pick and he ran safety/outside lb times at the combine...http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/02/floridas-haden-struggles-in-40-yard-dash/

 

[seattlefan]

Here's data from every corner that has run the 40 yard dash at the combine since 1999.



1999 – 26 cornerbacks

Champ Bailey - 4.28
Kevin Brooks - 4.34
Chris Watson - 4.34
Anthony Parker - 4.39
Fred Vinson - 4.39
Andre Holland - 4.41
Antoine Winfield - 4.41
Paul Miranda - 4.42
Marvin Love - 4.45
Dee Moronkola - 4.45
Donald Mitchell - 4.47
Chris Cummings - 4.48
Daylon McCutcheon - 4.48
Jason Bray - 4.49
Charles Fisher - 4.49
Fernando Bryant - 4.50
Dre' Bly - 4.51
Deshone Mallard - 4.51
Jason Craft - 4.52
Jermaine Jones - 4.53
Chris McAlister - 4.53
Jacoby Rhinehart - 4.61
Ty Talton - 4.61
Gerald Neasman - 4.64
Eric Edwards - 4.65
Andre Weathers – 4.65


2000 – 28 cornerbacks

Antwan Harris - 4.34
Kareem Larrimore - 4.42
Jason Webster - 4.42
William Bartee - 4.43
Reggie Austin - 4.44
Anthony Malbrough - 4.44
Sedrick Curry - 4.44
David Barrett - 4.44
Mario Edwards - 4.46
Ike Charlton - 4.47
Robert Bean - 4.50
Lloyd Harrison - 4.50
Lewis Sanders - 4.50
Tony Scott - 4.50
Damon Wheeler - 4.51
David Byrd - 4.53
Jeff Harris - 4.53
Jacoby Shepherd - 4.53
Ben Kelly - 4.53
Darrick Vaughn - 4.53
David Macklin - 4.54
Rashard Anderson - 4.55
Ralph Brown Nebraska - 4.55
Ethan Howell - 4.56
Hank Poteat - 4.57
Lamar Grant - 4.62
Renard Cox - 4.68
Brian Gray - 4.94


2001 – 29 cornerbacks

Will Allen 4.44
Eric Kelly - 4.46
Brock Williams - 4.46
Jamie Henderson - 4.48
Willie Middlebrooks - 4.50
Will Peterson - 4.51
Dwight Smith - 4.51
Raymond Walls - 4.51
Michael Stone - 4.51
Gary Baxter - 4.53
Kenneth Grant - 4.53
Harold Blackmon - 4.54
Bhawoh Jue - 4.54
Tay Cody - 4.55
Patrick Dyson - 4.55
Keon Moore - 4.56
Jerametrius Butler - 4.57
Rashad Holman - 4.58
Jimmy Williams - 4.58
Nijrell Eason - 4.59
Rodney Crayton - 4.60
Anthony Henry - 4.60
Clevan Thomas - 4.64
Kenny Bryant - 4.65
Leonard Myers - 4.65
Carey Scott - 4.65
Ligarius Jennings - 4.67
Renaldo Hill - 4.68
James Whitley - 4.73


2002 – 21 cornerbacks

Tony Beckham - 4.37
Joseph Jefferson - 4.39
Dante Wesley - 4.43
Rashad Bauman - 4.44
Sheldon Brown - 4.47
Kris Richard - 4.47
Quentin Jammer - 4.49
Bruce Branch - 4.53
Eric Joyce - 4.53
Jermaine Chatman - 4.55
Demarcus Faggins - 4.57
Brian Williams - 4.57
Willie Ford - 4.57
Omare Lowe - 4.58
LaVar Glover - 4.59
Keyuo Craver - 4.62
Roosevelt Williams - 4.63
Kevin Thomas - 4.64
Tony Okanlawon - 4.67
Lenny Walls - 4.67
Bobby Sippio - 4.69


2003 – 24 cornerbacks

Kevin Garrett - 4.32
B.J. Tucker - 4.34
Terence Newman - 4.37
Marcus Trufant - 4.38
Dennis Weathersby - 4.38
Drayton Florence - 4.39
Sammy Davis - 4.42
Rod Babers - 4.43
Nnamdi Asomugha - 4.45
Mike Lehan - 4.45
Andre Woolfolk - 4.47
Eugene Wilson - 4.48
DeJuan Groce - 4.49
Asante Samuel - 4.49
Charles Tillman - 4.49
Ricky Manning - 4.52
Donald Strickland - 4.53
Torrie Cox - 4.55
Terrence McGee - 4.57
Korey Banks - 4.58
Jason Goss - 4.58
Brian Mance - 4.58
Terrell Roberts - 4.63
Shane Walton - 4.67


2004 – 23 cornerbacks

Michael Waddell - 4.31
Ahmad Carroll - 4.34
Dunta Robinson - 4.34
DeAngelo Hall - 4.34
Roc Alexander - 4.35
Rufus Brown - 4.43
Joey Thomas - 4.44
Rich Gardner - 4.46
Von Hutchins - 4.46
Will Poole - 4.47
Keith Smith - 4.48
Ricardo Colclough - 4.49
Dexter Wynn - 4.49
Curtis DeLoatch - 4.50
Chris Thompson - 4.50
Jabari Greer - 4.50
Bruce Thornton - 4.50
Vontez Duff - 4.53
Jeremy LeSueur - 4.53
Keiwan Ratliff - 4.58
Marcell Allmond - 4.59
Randy Jordan - 4.59
Lawrence Richardson - 4.62


2005 – 32 cornerbacks

Stanford Routt - 4.27
Fabian Washington - 4.29
Darrent Williams - 4.30
Chris McKenzie - 4.32
Domonique Foxworth - 4.34
Karl Paymah - 4.35
Nick Collins - 4.36
Stanley Wilson - 4.36
Ronald Bartell - 4.37
Scott Starks - 4.37
Daven Holly - 4.39
Justin Miller – 4.42
Derrick Johnson - 4.43
Eric King - 4.43
Alphonso Hodge - 4.44
Carlos Rogers - 4.44
Kelvin Hayden - 4.45
Ellis Hobbs - 4.45
Antonio Perkins - 4.49
Antrel Rolle - 4.50
Cedrick Williams - 4.50
Jerron Wishom - 4.50
Corey Webster - 4.51
Eric Green - 4.52
Marlin Jackson - 4.52
Bryant McFadden - 4.53
Lamont Reid - 4.53
Travis Daniels - 4.54
Aric Williams - 4.58
Markus Curry - 4.59
Abraham Elimimian - 4.62
Brandon Browner - 4.63


2006 – 24 cornerbacks

Johnathan Joseph - 4.31
Tim Jennings - 4.32
Tye Hill - 4.34
Kelly Jennings - 4.39
Dee Webb - 4.41
Richard Marshall - 4.42
Gerrick McPhearson - 4.42
Darrell Hunter - 4.44
David Pittman - 4.44
Will Blackmon - 4.47
Antonio Cromartie - 4.47
Josh Lay - 4.48
Danieal Manning - 4.48
Marcus Maxey - 4.48
Derrick Martin - 4.50
Chris Hawkins - 4.51
DeMario Minter - 4.52
Dee McCann - 4.53
Chijioke Onyenegecha - 4.55
Antonio Malone - 4.59
Charles Gordon - 4.60
Reuben Houston - 4.62
John Walker - 4.62
Khalid Naziruddin - 4.64


2007 – 24 cornerbacks

Chris Houston – 4.32
Jonathan Wade – 4.36
Eric Wright – 4.36
LeonHall - 4.39
Marcus McCauley – 4.39
Josh Wilson - 4.39
Kenny Scott – 4.39
Anthony Arline - 4.43
Travarous Bain - 4.43
David Irons - 4.44
AaronRoss - 4.44
Bo Smith - 4.44
Tarell Brown - 4.45
Fred Bennett - 4.46
Ryan Smith - 4.51
Michael Coe - 4.53
Reggie Lewis - 4.54
Duane Coleman - 4.57
Trumaine McBride - 4.57
Brandon McDonald - 4.58
C.J. Wilson - 4.62
Daymeion Hughes - 4.65
Tyron Brackenridge - 4.67
Chaz Williams – 4.68


2008 – 30 cornerbacks

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - 4.29
Tyvon Branch - 4.31
Justin King - 4.31
Orlando Scandrick - 4.32
Michael Grant - 4.37
Tracy Porter - 4.37
Terrence Wheatley - 4.37
Mike Jenkins - 4.38
Jonathan Wilhite - 4.38
Leodis McKelvin - 4.38
Zackary Bowman - 4.39
Antwaun Molden - 4.39
Wilrey Fontenot - 4.40
Patrick Lee - 4.41
Justin Tryon - 4.42
Charles Godfrey - 4.43
Jack Williams - 4.43
Aqib Talib - 4.44
Antoine Cason - 4.45
Terrell Thomas - 4.45
Darnell Terrell - 4.46
Marcus Walker - 4.46
Jonathan Zenon - 4.48
Trae Williams - 4.51
Chevis Jackson - 4.52
Justin McKinney - 4.53
Dwight Lowery - 4.54
Brandon Flowers - 4.55
DeJuan Tribble - 4.59
Brandon Sumrall - 4.60
Matterral Richardson - 4.64


2009 – 31 cornerbacks

Lardarius Webb - 4.35
Vontae Davis - 4.40
Brandon Hughes - 4.40
Darius Butler - 4.41
Sherrod Martin - 4.43
Christopher Owens - 4.44
Kevin Barnes - 4.45
Bradley Fletcher - 4.47
Alphonso Smith - 4.47
Keenan Lewis - 4.47
Asher Allen - 4.48
Don Carey - 4.49
Lydell Sargeant - 4.49
Bruce Johnson - 4.49
Domonique Johnson - 4.50
DeAngelo Smith - 4.50
Donald Washington - 4.50
Sean Smith - 4.50
Morgan Trent - 4.50
Malcolm Jenkins - 4.51
Ryan Mouton - 4.51
Jerraud Powers - 4.51
Captain Munnerlyn - 4.51
DeAndre Wright - 4.52
Ryan Palmer - 4.54
D.J. Moore - 4.56
Joe Burnett - 4.58
Cary Harris - 4.58
Jahi Word-Daniels - 4.59
Coye Francies - 4.63
Victor Harris – 4.68


2010 – 28 cornerbacks

Akwasi Owusu-Ansah - 4.32
Brandon Ghee - 4.37
David Pender - 4.37
Devin McCourty - 4.38
Kareem Jackson - 4.40
Kevin Thomas - 4.41
A.J. Jefferson - 4.42
Crezdon Butler - 4.43
Earl Thomas - 4.43
Chris Hawkins - 4.43
Kyle Wilson - 4.43
Chris Cook - 4.45
Dominique Franks - 4.46
Patrick Robinson - 4.46
Chris Chancellor - 4.49
Joshua Moore - 4.50
Jerome Murphy - 4.50
Trevard Lindley - 4.51
Joe Haden - 4.52
Amari Spievey - 4.52
Alterraun Verner - 4.52
Jamar Wall - 4.52
Perrish Cox - 4.58
Cornelius Brown - 4.59
Javier Arenas - 4.60
Syd'Quan Thompson - 4.62
Devin Ross - 4.64
Brian Jackson – 4.65


2011 – 34 cornerbacks

Demarcus Van Dyke - 4.25
Patrick Peterson - 4.31
Buster Skrine - 4.37
Prince Amukamara - 4.38
Chimdi Chekwa - 4.38
Ras-I Dowling - 4.40
Shareece Wright - 4.41
Curtis Marsh - 4.42
Jimmy Smith - 4.42
Brandon Hogan - 4.43
Byron Maxwell - 4.43
Davon House - 4.44
Marcus Gilchrist - 4.45
Justin Rogers - 4.45
Brandon Harris - 4.46
Josh Thomas - 4.46
Chykie Brown - 4.49
Cortez Allen - 4.50
Brandyn Thompson - 4.50
Brandon Burton - 4.50
Curtis Brown - 4.51
Jalil Brown - 4.52
Rashad Carmichael - 4.53
Vance Cuff - 4.53
Niles Brinkley - 4.54
Richard Sherman - 4.54
Chris Rucker - 4.55
Aaron Williams - 4.55
Kevin Rutland - 4.58
Johnny Patrick - 4.59
Mario Butler - 4.65
Devon Torrence - 4.68
Kendric Burney - 4.71
Andrew McGee – 4.71


2012 – 33 cornerbacks

Josh Robinson - 4.33
Ron Brooks - 4.37
Stephon Gilmore - 4.40
Coty Sensabaugh - 4.42
Dwight Bentley - 4.43
Janoris Jenkins - 4.46
Jayron Hosley - 4.47
Coryell Judie - 4.48
Asa Jackson - 4.49
Morris Claiborne - 4.50
Dre Kirkpatrick - 4.51
Jamell Fleming - 4.53
Chaz Powell - 4.53
Terrence Frederick - 4.54
Alfonzo Dennard - 4.55
Jeremy Jones - 4.56
Casey Hayward - 4.57
Justin Bethel - 4.58
Trevin Wade - 4.59
Trumaine Johnson - 4.61
Micah Pellerin - 4.61
Charles Brown - 4.63
Antwuan Reed - 4.63
Cliff Harris - 4.64
DeAndre Presley - 4.64
Josh Norman - 4.66
Antonio Fenelus - 4.68
Ryan Steed - 4.68
Mike Harris - 4.68
Robert Blanton - 4.70
Leonard Johnson - 4.71
DeQuan Menzie - 4.74
D'Anton Lynn – 4.77


387 total corners have ran the 40 yard dash from 1999-2012.


71 out of 387 (18%) ran 4.40 or faster
199 out of 387 (51%) ran 4.50 or slower
111 out of 387 (29%) ran 4.55 or slower
62 out of 387 (16%) ran 4.60 or slower

 

[dwid]

387 total corners have ran the 40 yard dash from 1999-2012.


71 out of 387 (18%) ran 4.40 or faster
199 out of 387 (51%) ran 4.50 or slower
111 out of 387 (29%) ran 4.55 or slower
62 out of 387 (16%) ran 4.60 or slower

That would be useful information if the times were correct. It lists Joe Haden as 4.52, he ran a 4.57 and a 4.6.

Malcolm Jenkins ran a 4.53 and a 4.55, not a 4.51. Who knows how many other times are off?

 

[seattlefan]

I got my numbers from nfldraftscout and nflcombineresults.com. I used these sites because there are few websites that have combine data going back years. Some of the numbers may be off but the large majority are accurate. If anything, these numbers may be faster than these corners really ran.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I got my numbers from nfldraftscout and nflcombineresults.com. I used these sites because there are few websites that have combine data going back years. Some of the numbers may be off but the large majority are accurate. If anything, these numbers may be faster than these corners really ran.

Thanks for the info. seattlefan. Did the CB's have the fastest times or were the WR's faster overall? Then were the RB's next or the Safeties? It would be interesting to see the breakdown. I would like to see the WR's, RB's and Safeties. Could you post those numbers? You don't have to go back that many years, just a few years back, say 5-6.

Don't mean to be so lazy, but thought you wouldn't mind.

Thanks again!

 

[dwid]

How do you know that they are "mostly accurate"? Those are just two I spotted right away, both high profile players. Nflcombineresults has Knowshon Moreno at 4.5 even, he ran a 4.62, also a high profile player coming out. Maybe in a few years they will have all 3 of these guys listed as running 4.49. Couldn't have top picks running 4.55 or slower. Beanie Wells ran a 4.59 and is listed as 4.52. Meanwhile Brian Leonard's 4.49 is 4.52 and Peyton Hillis 4.59 is 4.64. Kevin Curtis went from 4.35 to 4.42 (4.21 at pro day) In Haden's case, he turned out to be pretty good, Jenkins failed at corner and is failing at safety. Moreno is failing at runningback, but its nothing to do with his 4.62. Wells is finally doing okay when not injured.

from a quick glance it appears that there are a few more wide receivers with sub 4.5 times than cornerbacks, it looks almost even though and runningback is 3rd but with about half the amount of sub 4.5 times of wide receiver/cb

 

[wile]

This is going to seem counterintuitive, but the numbers to the anti-whites are tertiary. The first order of the day is to promote blacks and then fit the facts. Blacks being a spirit people care less about facts, they have the TRUTH. The white anti-whites quibble with facts to disguise their true intentions, depose whites and enhance blacks. Don't get lost in facts.

 

[Paleocon]

This is going to seem counterintuitive, but the numbers to the anti-whites are tertiary. The first order of the day is to promote blacks and then fit the facts. Blacks being a spirit people care less about facts, they have the TRUTH. The white anti-whites quibble with facts to disguise their true intentions, depose whites and enhance blacks. Don't get lost in facts.

True, but the facts are not meant to convince blacks or the powers-that-be. They are to persuade the DWFs or at least force them to think.

 

[wile]

True, but the facts are not meant to convince blacks or the powers-that-be. They are to persuade the DWFs or at least force them to think.

True, but it never hurts to quash their unearned moral superiority instead of just quibbling the details if a white man runs a 4.49 versus a blacks 4.54. How that is done is tricky but it can be done.

 

[Carolina Speed]

True, but the facts are not meant to convince blacks or the powers-that-be. They are to persuade the DWFs or at least force them to think.

Right Paleocon, I know this is old news, but another prime example of how DWF's think or not think. I was at yet another high school combine this weekend and before any white athlete even started to run their 40, all the DWF's were calling out all the black athletes to see who would run the fastest 40! Well at the end of the combine, yes, a black athlete had the best 40, but a 15 year old Sophomore white athlete had the second fastest 40, 4.56 at 5'10.5, 188lbs. The black that won was 17 and will turn 18 this year, 4.44, 40 at 5'9, 155lbs., and is a Sophomore. What will the white kid run when he's almost 18? Hopefully we will know one day.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I see this alot in my area. Does anyone else?

I've said this before, I'm not convinced blacks mature quicker physically, I think many of them are 1-2 years older than many of the white kids they compete against. It has to give them(blacks) a psychological edge over some white kids?

Those idiot DWF's don't have clue as to what's going on! All they did was slobber over this kid. Yes, the 4.44 is a fantastic time, I hope ya'll understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i would like to add one follow-up to NDfootball06's comments ... the idea of only comparing performances at the Combine (or any other apple vs. apple scenario) is a good one. the only problem is that White athletes at the skill positions rarely get invited to the Combine. take a look at this year (or any other for that matter) as evidence of this bias.

i love keeping comparisons as similar as possible, so i'll only address the pre-Draft process of wide receivers on one single team: the Boise State Broncos. and i'll compare last year with this season.

(i've written this before, so i'll borrow heavily from another post of mine to re-address the issue. i hope that isn't too vain.)

White receiver Tyler Shoemaker had a tremendous year (2011-12) for Boise State. the "overachieving" former walk-on shattered the school's single-season touchdown receptions record with 16, but he also compares very favorably to the two "real" wideouts from Boise State who were drafted by the NFL a season ago (2010-2011). please compare Shoemaker's numbers with those of Titus Young (drafted in the 2nd Round of 2011 NFL Draft, #44 overall) and Austin Pettis (drafted in the 3rd Round of 2011 NFL Draft, #78 overall) below.

Young: 71 catches, 1,215 yards, 9 touchdowns, 17.1 yards-per-catch, with a long of 83.
Pettis: 71 catches, 951 yards, 10 touchdowns, 13.4 yards-per-catch, with a long of 58.
Shoemaker: 62 catches, 994 yards, 16 touchdowns, 16.0 yards-per, with a long of 62.

the comparison is further validated, though, because:

all three players had the same quarterback (Kellen Moore), played in the same system, against the same competition, and so on ... furthermore, Shoemaker has favorable size (6-2, 216-pounds) compared to both Young (5-11, 174-pounds) and Pettis (6-3, 207-pounds) ... and Shoemaker posted a 4.44 40 at his Pro Day compared to (similarly-sized) Pettis' 4.56 and (the much smaller) Young's 4.43 at the Combine and 4.39 at his Pro Day. Shoemaker also posted a 37-inch vertical leap (which exceeded either black, former teammate-turned-Draftee's numbers) and similar agility numbers.

despite the similarities/favorable comparisons, both Young and Pettis were invited to the Combine. Shoemaker was snubbed. he "wasn't a good enough athlete," you see.

it has been "interesting" to see how the so-called experts in the NFL have "evaluated" Shoemaker as a potential late-round pick/high priority free agent when he's a bigger kid than Young with similar speed, a faster kid than Pettis with similar size, and is more of a threat in the red zone than either of them. "weird," huh?

so far, the difference in their respective draft "evaluations" and the resulting Combine snub of Shoemaker provides yet more evidence of the Caste System double standard. this is also why only comparing performances from the Combine is difficult. White players don't get the same opportunities.

additionally, as is so often the case, Carolina Speed makes some excellent points.

 

[white defensive back]

i would like to add one follow-up to NDfootball06's comments ... the idea of only comparing performances at the Combine (or any other apple vs. apple scenario) is a good one. the only problem is that White athletes at the skill positions rarely get invited to the Combine. take a look at this year (or any other for that matter) as evidence of this bias.

i love keeping comparisons as similar as possible, so i'll only address the pre-Draft process of wide receivers on one single team: the Boise State Broncos. and i'll compare last year with this season.

(i've written this before, so i'll borrow heavily from another post of mine to re-address the issue. i hope that isn't too vain.)

White receiver Tyler Shoemaker had a tremendous year (2011-12) for Boise State. the "overachieving" former walk-on shattered the school's single-season touchdown receptions record with 16, but he also compares very favorably to the two "real" wideouts from Boise State who were drafted by the NFL a season ago (2010-2011). please compare Shoemaker's numbers with those of Titus Young (drafted in the 2nd Round of 2011 NFL Draft, #44 overall) and Austin Pettis (drafted in the 3rd Round of 2011 NFL Draft, #78 overall) below.

Young: 71 catches, 1,215 yards, 9 touchdowns, 17.1 yards-per-catch, with a long of 83.
Pettis: 71 catches, 951 yards, 10 touchdowns, 13.4 yards-per-catch, with a long of 58.
Shoemaker: 62 catches, 994 yards, 16 touchdowns, 16.0 yards-per, with a long of 62.

the comparison is further validated, though, because:

all three players had the same quarterback (Kellen Moore), played in the same system, against the same competition, and so on ... furthermore, Shoemaker has favorable size (6-2, 216-pounds) compared to both Young (5-11, 174-pounds) and Pettis (6-3, 207-pounds) ... and Shoemaker posted a 4.47 40 at his Pro Day compared to (similarly-sized) Pettis' 4.56 and (the much smaller) Young's 4.43 at the Combine and 4.39 at his Pro Day. Shoemaker also posted a 37-inch vertical leap (which exceeded either black, former teammate-turned-Draftee's numbers) and similar agility numbers.

despite the similarities/favorable comparisons, both Young and Pettis were invited to the Combine. Shoemaker was snubbed. he "wasn't a good enough athlete," you see.

it has been "interesting" to see how the so-called experts in the NFL have "evaluated" Shoemaker as a potential late-round pick/high priority free agent when he's a bigger kid than Young with similar speed, a faster kid than Pettis with similar size, and is more of a threat in the red zone than either of them. "weird," huh?

so far, the difference in their respective draft "evaluations" and the resulting Combine snub of Shoemaker provides yet more evidence of the Caste System double standard. this is also why only comparing performances from the Combine is difficult. White players don't get the same opportunities.

additionally, as is so often the case, Carolina Speed makes some excellent points.

I am not an expert whatsoever on judging football players though I play an expert on tv. lol To me, SHoemaker just really isint that good. Mitch Burroughs on the other hand is going to make an NFL roster and excel.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I am not an expert whatsoever on judging football players though I play an expert on tv. lol To me, SHoemaker just really isint that good. Mitch Burroughs on the other hand is going to make an NFL roster and excel.

I think JC's point is: whether anyone thinks Shoemaker is good or not, any white WR with his measureables and proven ability at the D-1 level should be given the same opportunity as a black WR with equal or less than measureables.

 

[white defensive back]

I think JC's point is: whether anyone thinks Shoemaker is good or not, any white WR with his measureables and proven ability at the D-1 level should be given the same opportunity as a black WR with equal or less than measureables.

I agree. I was not trying to say Shoemaker is an average receiver but a lot of his catches were caught in zone coverage. Despite his incredible measurables I dont know if he is going to have separation quickness against NFl corners. Trust me! I hope I am wrong. Speed is speed no matter what color you are and he just dosen't look very fast or at least quick. Time will tell. I am rooting for Connor Dixon , Pflugrad, Carrier, Wylie, Coale, Shoemaker, Ebert and Searcy to name a few.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I agree. I was not trying to say Shoemaker is an average receiver but a lot of his catches were caught in zone coverage. Despite his incredible measurables I dont know if he is going to have separation quickness against NFl corners. Trust me! I hope I am wrong. Speed is speed no matter what color you are and he just dosen't look very fast or at least quick. Time will tell. I am rooting for Connor Dixon , Pflugrad, Carrier, Wylie, Coale, Shoemaker, Ebert and Searcy to name a few.

Agreed. I haven't seen Shoemaker as much as you probably have. I think if your saying he doesn't look that fast on the field, it could be a problem.

There's a difference in drill or combine speed and field or game speed.

 

[Truthteller]

I am not an expert whatsoever on judging football players though I play an expert on tv. lol To me, SHoemaker just really isint that good. Mitch Burroughs on the other hand is going to make an NFL roster and excel.

Your posts seem very similar to those of NDfootball06' in this thread (who you support) and many other posters that have come and left (been banned) in the last 12 months -- i.e. Matt Gianone and Tim Dwight.

It's always the same theme: "Gee, I really hope I'm wrong men, but this white guy isn't that good"...."Man, I'm not an expert, but that white guy sure seems slow on TV...Trust me, I hope of wrong and he runs a great 40!!!"...."Boy, I wish I'm proven incorrect folks, but that white guy is overrated and will never make it"...it goes on and on, then you seem to like to throw in the (intentional?) bad grammer, which might be done to make the typical CF poster look bad/stupid.

Look at Shoemaker's stats: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/241928/tyler-shoemaker

How does a guy that averaged over 16 yards per catch throughout his entire college career look not fast on the field?

What is so "not special" about a guy that's posted those numbers at a top 10 school like Boise? Why should an obvious no-talent guy like Austin Pettis, who will likely be cut be the Rams soon, be fast-tracked to the NFL, while Tyler is not even invited to the Combine? Is it because Austin's Uncle Tom dad is a ex-big league outfielder who married a white woman? Is that why Shoemaker goes to the end of the line, while Pettis goes to the front? Both have white moms; but Austin's dad is more "special" than Shoemaker senior, who isn't black and isn't on Ron Washington's staff in Texas?

You and your new pal NDfootball06' love to point out how we are unfair comparing less than stellar combine times of the "real athletes" to the hand-timed Pro Day results of certain whites (i.e. Shoemaker, Ebert, ect), but how can these whites impress at the combine when they are not even invited after having great career at BCS schools? And even when they do run real well (i.e. Danny Coale and Devon Wylie), they are downgraded by the "experts" for other reasons.


P.S: white defensive back, I hope you and the ex-poster Tim Dwight (banned) are enjoying watching the Rangers v. Senators series together.

 

[dwid]

Look at Shoemaker's stats: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/241928/tyler-shoemaker

How does a guy that averaged over 16 yards per catch throughout his entire college career look not fast on the field?

What is so "not special" about a guy that's posted those numbers at a top 10 school like Boise? .

Tyler Shoemaker had no trouble outrunning dbs. Yes he got some yards finding holes in the zone because they had him in the slot quite a bit (id say about half of the time, they moved him around alot), and those are the routes they had him running against what the defense gave them. Young got most of his yards against zone as well. Defenses couldn't stop him either way. Burroughs is the classic slot receiver, quick and good at getting yac, probably should be playing runningback. Shoemaker would be better as an outside receiver, he is big, physical and fast. Pettis got tons of yards by finding holes in the zone as well, most of his routes against corners one on one were 10 yard hitches, Moore simply doesn't have the arm to throw deep and to the outside, if its deep its going to be in the middle, which is usually a hole in the zone. The passes to the outside float, which is why he isn't a top rated qb right now. I am sure with offseason training he can work on his arm strength. If college corners and safeties can't catch you by playing zone, keeping everything in front of them and then trying to catch up with an angle, then I am sure they won't catch you one on one and defenders had trouble with him one on one.

The only reason why Burroughs would make it over Shoemaker is for the NFL to keep the myth that Whites are all under 6 foot and "Welker" types, or at least keep the myth alive that all Whites are slot receivers even when they aren't good at getting yac on short quicker routes. Meanwhile guys like Riley Cooper are buried on the depth chart after producing. It took a while for Jordy to finally get a legit shot at outside receiver and he was still a part time player, now they are talking about moving him to the slot. They don't want tall fast White receivers like Shoemaker, Kris Durham, or as previously mentioned, Riley Cooper. They even put Matt Jones in the slot and had him running possession receiver routes for Christ sake. Have you seen Randy Moss on the those types of plays? Average looking receiver when asked to do that.

I would say less than half of his yards came by finding holes in the zone, white defensive back, care to elaborate on why you think he is slow and will have trouble seperating from corners? and why Mitch would be a better wide receiver when his longest reception was 29 yards last year on 49 catches? I think he would be better suited to play runningback.

 

[Don Wassall]

I am asking that the rhetoric be kept down, as far as posters attacking other posters. People can support White athletes but still have an opinion that one or more of them may not be star material. If new posters are continually not given a chance, we're going to end up with just a handful of "old" posters; the board has been slow enough lately without that happening.