Six for the HOF in 2006

[foreverfree]

Aikman
White
Wright
Madden
Carson
Moon

Are any of these deserving? Are any of them just taking up space in Canton?

I'll leave that up to the more "expert" CF denizens.

I'm just putting up the topic.

John

 

[Don Wassall]

Aikman is very deserving. In fact, he's about the last well-known white player to go in for quite a while now as the Hall is going to enter into a prolonged phase of nearly all black inductees thanks to the Caste System.

Madden doesn't deserve it, unless one thinks his "boom, pow" routine merits induction. White and Moon are deserving. Wright and Carson are more borderline.

 

[whiteCB]

Yeah I mean not only is John Madden the worst announcer of all time but he only won 103 games and just one Super Bowl. Not only that but Madden loves the caste system and Brett Farve a little too much for my liking.

 

[Cassiodorus]

Moon is overrated and was a choke artist to boot. All he did was amass numbers, not hard to do in an offense that throws 50-60 times/game.

 

[sport historian]

I remember someone writing to the effect that John Madden was considered a HOF candidate due to his popularity as a TV personality. As a coach, he was considered to be a lightweight. After all, Al Davis made the major personnel decisions. It was said that Madden did have to handle a lot of "head cases," but so did Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, and other coaches. Madden never would have been considered if he had left the public eye after resigning as coach after the 1978 season. Being on TV for decades put him in the Hall.

 

[Ta Waki Mumba]

Warren Moon has to be in if Canton wants to continue to claim to be the Football Hall of Fame and not just the American Football Hall of Fame. His NFL stats alone aren't enough but five grey cups have to count for something.

 

[bigunreal]

Sorry, I don't think any of these guys except Reggie White are deserving. Aikman's career stats are underwhelming, to say the least. I know a lot of you disagree with me about this, but Aikman epitomizes what I mean about QBs getting too much credit (and too much blame) for their team's performance. The only possible qualification Aikman has is "his" 3 Super Bowl wins. Like Bob Griese, he wasn't asked to do much, and had a ton of talent around him. As for the others, Warren Moon compiled nice career stats because he played all those years in the briefly trendy "run and shoot" offense. He also is apparently being rewarded for his CFL stats! Huh? If that is going to be a criteria, then Doug Flutie better make the Hall of Fame! Harry Carson was a good, solid linebacker, but there are plenty of white LBs every bit his equal who are not in the Hall of Fame (Tommy Nobis, Chuck Howley, Bill Bergey are just three of many who immediately spring to mind). Rayfield Wright is a totally ridiculous selection. There were two better players on that SAME Cowboys offensive line (John Niland and Ralph Neely) who aren't in the Hall of Fame. And as long as Jerry Kramer remains left out of the Hall, no other offensive linemen should be enshrined. It's a travesty he isn't in there. John Madden- don't get me started. This guy had incredible talent to work with, yet consistently lost to Pittsburgh and Miami in the playoffs. His pathetic work as a broadcaster, with his bufoonish, inane commentary, should have made everyone realize that no one that stupid could have been a great coach.

 

[sport historian]

Jerry Kramer has been kept out for decades because "too many Packers are already in the Hall." Also, the publicity he got for the block in the 1967 NFL Title game, plus the best-selling book, Instant Replay, has worked against him.

 

[KG2422]

I think Moon was the best black quarterback ever. But then didn't he get NFL man of the year and soon afterwards break one of his wife's cheekbones or something? That could have been Robert Parish or both of them. I was a kid at the time ,but I remember thinking that blacks who are quiet seem more acceptable to whites but you still can't trust them.

 

[speedster]

Rayfield Wright deserves to be there.He's a six-time pro-bowler and a dominant OT.Ditto Aikman.His completion rate was excellent,threw few interceptions and when the Cowboys got down deep their O-line was so good they had Emmitt run it in instead of Troy having to throw.I hope Warren Moon gives many thanks to the Edmonton Eskimos for even giving him a shot,developing him and then sending him to the NFL ready to start.In Edmonton he learned under QB Tom Wilkinson and threw to white wideouts like George McGowan Tommy Scott and Brian Kelly.You Washington State fans should remember Kelly.He was an awesome receiver who made Warren Moon in the CFL.It was a crime he never got a shot in the NFL.

 

[Colonel Callan]

Aikman is definitely deserving. Madden, nope. Although a few of his
losses to Miami were due to Shula being in charge of the Rules
Committee and having pull with officials. Al Davis was the real coach for
many years. Yeah, Moon did pop his wife, so did the NBA's Parish - but
that's the norm for blacks, truth be told. Moon did choke, but
performance wise, he's as good as some other players in there. I will say
Moon was a better QB than the the Great Gods Vick, McNabb and
Cunningham. Bigunreal is dead on target regarding Carson. If Carson
were white, he'd be out in the cold the way things are these days.

 

[whiteCB]

How does Harry Carson get into the HOF and yet Randy Gradishar still isn'y in? Gradishar was one of the best LBS in the 70s and early 80s and every Bronco fan knows that for a fact.

 

[bigunreal]

Troy Aikman threw few interceptions? Look at this guy's mediocre career stats; his TD to interception ratio was horrible for a "great" QB- 165 TD to 141 interceptions. He had over 20 TDs ONE time in his career, and he averaged less than 14 TD passes a season. That's basically Mike/ Michael Vick without the rushing yardage. He never passed for as much as 3500 yards in a season. His only claim to "greatness" was being the QB on a team that won the Super Bowl three times. At least he wasn't as bad as Terry Bradshaw, who never had a single 300 yard passing game until his final season in the league. Yeah, that's a real Hall of Famer....Edited by: bigunreal

 

[speedster]

Yeah,Aikman threw few pics.He averaged something like 11 a year and had seasons where he threw 5,6 and 7 pics.Brett Favre averages 16 pics a year.If you read my post Aikman didn't have to throw TD passes since the Cowboys could run the ball in.Who said anything about greatness,I didn't.Aikman was a good solid QB who was smart and didn't make the dumb mistakes.

 

[White Shogun]

If winning three Super Bowls is not enough to get a guy into the Hall of Fame, what is??

This isn't baseball, where all that counts is stats. Playing on championship teams counts for something. And Aikman played on not one, not two, but THREE Super Bowl champion teams.

So Aikman doesn't get in because all he has is his three Super Bowls, and Warren Moon doesn't get in with his great stats because he didn't win a championship?? How does one thus get into the Hall of Fame, a combination of championships and stats only??

 

[Don Wassall]

Maybe the Hall should retract its election of Harry Carson. Does any other group of people in the world wallow in bitterness and anger like many American blacks do, even in moments of triumph?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2320251

 

[guest301]

How can anybody reasonable state that Troy Aikman doesn't belong in the HOF. Three super bowl rings(SBMVP) largely speaks for itself. Troy was probably the most amazingly accurate QB that maybe ever played the game. MIchael Irvin was no speed demon but whenever he had so much as a quarter step on a db the pass from Troy arrived perfectly. He also (as others have stated) would have had alot more td passes if he wasn't giving the ball to Emmitt every time they got inside the ten yard line. No reasonable arguement can be made against Troy's induction into the HOF.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Hey guest301, since when is reason part of the picture?

 

[guest301]

I wonder sometimes. Aikman should pretty much be above reproach as a HOF inductee. Especially by members of this site. However, being born and raised in Dallas. I'm pretty biased toward cowboy players. Drew Pearson would be in the HOF if it was up to me!!

 

[White Shogun]

Hey guest301, since when is reason part of the picture?

Good point, Reb! Seems like reason has been spending alot of time on vacation these days!

 

[speedster]

You are so right about Drew Pearson being in the Hall guest301.Lynn Swann is in and Drew's numbers are just as good and better.Swann had big games in the playoffs but so did Drew.I'm telling you there is bias against the Cowboys from that era.Dallas was percieved as being arrogant but it's jealousy coming from these voters who hate the Cowboys.People can't take it when somebody wins too much.

 

[guest301]

Exactly Speedster. I think there has always been alot of jealousy against "america's team".The name"dallas cowboys" just rolls of the tongue. The uniforms are perfect and I think sometimes the great cowboy players of the 70's are punished because they couldn't beat the steelers in the superbowl. Never mine the five times we got to the SB in the 70's and the two times we won. I also still say if it wasn't for that phantom interference call against cowboy safety Benny Barnes while he was covering Lynn Swann, the outcome of that game might have been different. I think that the cowboys may be getting some competition from the steelers on the "america's team" moniker. There are alot of steeler fans in this country.

 

[speedster]

You seem like a long time fan guest301.I'm sure you're aware of some of the snubs the Cows of that era have gotten.The way I see it the following Cows should be there:Cliff Harris,Charlie Waters, Ralph Neely,John Niland,Harvey Martin,Too Tall Jones, Bob Bruenig and this is not a popular one,Bob Hayes.Yeah I know he had some problems off the field but he had some big years and it is becuase of him that zone defences were created.Talk about a shift.

 

[guest301]

I agree with you on all those names with the possible exception of Bruenig. I remember Bruenig as being a good middle linebacker but not a gamechanging linebacker like Leroy Jordan and Chuck Howley were. I agree with you about Hayes, he changed the game forever with his world class speed and cleaned up his life towards the end and I hope he makes it. Maybe if Cowboy owner Jerry Jones wasn't such a scrooge and put more of these old- time cowboys in the ring of honor then maybe they would get more consideration for the HOF.

 

[speedster]

Yeah,Leroy Jordan and Chuck Howley were sticky-fingered tacklers.They totally belong as well.I think in Tom Landry's flex defence linebackers had to be diciplined and able to hold their position,you know read and react.This is why I included Bob Bruenig because to play the middle you have to be pretty smart and Bruenig also made three Prow Bowls.Did you know that Breunig was only the third starting MLB the Cow had and this was going into the mid-eighties.The others being Jerry Tubbs and Leroy Jordan.Pretty consistent.