Yea I was aware of that fact. Since the mid-80's there hasn't been much consistency at that position with the exception of Eugene Lockhardt. I do think Norton jr. and Nguyen were above average at the middle linebacker position but certainly not in the class of early cowboy middle linebackers.
Six for the HOF in 2006
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Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
What about Fernell Hampton?
While I'm waiting for Reb's response I can talk Cowboys all-night.Guest301 you mention the interference call against Benny Barnes in Super Bowl XIII,but there was the Jackie Smith drop and the Randy White fumble as well.The Steelers had horse shoes in their pockets because their kicker Roy Gerela actually slipped on the kick-off and bounced the kick to White who had a cast on and promptly fumbled before he even got hit.So as you can see I'm not too thrilled the Steelers won the Super Bowl as I mentioned in another post.
It's halftime of the Gonzaga game and so I'm posting again. Those were good points speedster about smith and white but those were player failures. The barnes interference call was highway robbery and only the most fanatical of a steelers fan would deny that. I"m hoping that the cowboys sign Jurevicious next year and I appreciate the fact that Parcells doesn't want TO on his team next year. Parcells isn't exactly a friend of the white athlete unless it's at the QB or TE position, but he doesn't want a uncoachable troublemaker like Owens on his team either.
I'm following the Zag game on their website gametracker since there is no TV of the game where I live.I thought this was the game Josh Heytvelt would be back,but I guess not.Anyway,I would love to see Joey V in a Cows uni,I think he would be a perfect fit.I would totally disown the Cow if they brought in Owens.Dallas was so close this year in making things happen but there were too many break-downs late in games that really cost them.Dallas really were the Cardiac Cowboys this year as most games went down to the wire.I think Joe could be the difference.
My point about Aikman is that he was statistically a mediocre QB. No one can look at his stats and deny that. In this regard, he is very similar to Bob Griese, whose selection to the Hall was just as ridiculous. While I think that too many players are in the baseball Hall of Fame, in general I think the pro football Hall has just selected a lot of undeserving players, while leaving a lot of deserving players out. A lot of this is racial; great white players like Dick LeBeau, Bill Bergey, Bob Kuchenberg, Mick Tingelhoff, Gary Collins, Jim Covert, Jim Lachey, Roger Wehrli, Jerry Kramer and many others have been left out, while lesser players like Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Paul Warfield and the aforementioned Griese, Aikman, Moon, Wright and Carson are in. Certainly, being on multiple Super Bowl winners helps a player's resume, but in and of itself it is pretty meaningless. I think that Marv Fleming and Charles Haley are two players who were on 4 or 5 Super Bowl winning teams. Does that make them Hall of Famers? Or do you have to be a QB for that to be so relevant? I made the opposite argument about Warren Moon, because his stats were inflated by a gimmicky offense that required him to throw on almost every play. I also think it's ridiculous to count his CFL career when considering his worthiness for the Hall. I realize I'm in the minority here, but I stand by what I said.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Fernell Hampton was a black defensive player for LSU back in the mid-90's. He wasn't that good, and I don't think he played in the NFL, but I remember his name. Anyway, it was just a joke.
I just looked up the stats of Aikman and Moon. Moon played a long while and threw a lot of passes, but his INT-TD ratio isn't all that hot. He also has a horrible record in playoff games. Aikman did win three Super Bowls, but I was quite surprised to see his TD INT ratio, would have thought it would be much better, for all the talk about his accuracy. He fared much better in playoff games in comparison to Moon. I guess, I wouldn't quibble too much about his selection, but I thought his stats would be much, much better.
If Carson played in Denver and Gradishar played in New York, Randy would be the man in the HOF.
If Carson played in Denver and Gradishar played in New York, Randy would be the man in the HOF.
foreverfree
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Don Wassall said:
Didn't Bill Russell refuse induction into the Basketball HOF by playing the race card?
John
Cassiodorus
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I'm glad to see a mention of Mick Tinglehoff, one of my childhood heroes on the Vikings.
For all you guys soooo hung up on stats chew on this.The bottom line is winning the big game.Troy Aikman played in 7 championship games,that is 4 NFC title games and 3 Super Bowls and in those games Troy was 6-1,tossed 14 TD's and 4 pics and threw for 1,823 yards which is 260 yards a game.Overall Aikman had 3849 threw the air and a 11 and 4 record,actually it should be 3 losses since in his first ever playoff game Aikman played against Detroit he took over from Steve Buerlien who had already left a mess.Bigunreal's comparison of Aikman to Vick is downright embaressing,EMABARESSING.How can I take anything you post from now on seriously.When you watch Vick often times it seems as though he doesn't know what he's doing,did you really feel that same way watching Troy.
Any comparison between Aikman and Vick is beyond embarrassing. I also still fully believe that if Jimmy Johnson had gotten fired in a fit of jealousy by Jerry jones..the cowboys would have won four Super Bowls in a row instead of three out of four. The cowboys barely lost that nfc championship game in San Francisco the first year of Switzer's brief NFL career. That is what is embarrassing, that BARRY SWITZER was ever a coach of the cowboys.
Two points. First, Speedster: if you aren't "hung up on stats," then how do you objectively evaluate any player's performance? If not for stats, for instance, then EVERYONE would proclaim Mike/Michael Vick the best player in football (a lot of them do, anyway). Statistics aren't the only thing we should consider, but without them any comparison of players becomes a shouting match betweeen partisans who claim they "know" their guy is the best. If stats aren't important, btw, why did you cite Aikman's playoff numbers? Finally, I only compared Vick's average TD passes per season to Aikman's. As I said, Aikman averaged slightly under 14 TD passes per season. That's mediocre, and it's just about what Vick has averaged. In no way am I claiming Vick is a great or even good QB (if you've read any of my posts about him, you'd know that). I think the fact that the two of them are statistically pretty close, passing wise, is something all of you should consider, especially since we all believe that Vick is a complete joke.
Guest 301, it's interesting that you mention Barry Swtizer. There is an example of someone who was vilified in the press as a complete moron and fired after four seasons as coach of the Cowboys. His career record as an NFL coach was 45-26, with one Super Bowl victory in four seasons. That's a pretty good record, and considering as a college coach, his teams won multiple national championships while he posted the fouth best winning pct. in NCAA history (including a winning record vs. the supposedly great Jimmy Johnson), he hardly deserves the reputation he has among fans and the media. Curiously, Aikman led the group of Cowboy veterans who undercut Switzer's authority and basically forced his firing. Now I'm not saying I like Switzer; he represented all that's wrong with college football, with his scandal-ridden teams. He also certainly inherited a very talented Cowboy squad from Jimmy Johnson. However, he did compile an impressive record at both levels (there go those statistics again), and thus doesn't deserve, imho, the poor reputation he has.
Guest 301, it's interesting that you mention Barry Swtizer. There is an example of someone who was vilified in the press as a complete moron and fired after four seasons as coach of the Cowboys. His career record as an NFL coach was 45-26, with one Super Bowl victory in four seasons. That's a pretty good record, and considering as a college coach, his teams won multiple national championships while he posted the fouth best winning pct. in NCAA history (including a winning record vs. the supposedly great Jimmy Johnson), he hardly deserves the reputation he has among fans and the media. Curiously, Aikman led the group of Cowboy veterans who undercut Switzer's authority and basically forced his firing. Now I'm not saying I like Switzer; he represented all that's wrong with college football, with his scandal-ridden teams. He also certainly inherited a very talented Cowboy squad from Jimmy Johnson. However, he did compile an impressive record at both levels (there go those statistics again), and thus doesn't deserve, imho, the poor reputation he has.
I didn't say that Barry didn't have a impressive resume. But he was known for his illegal recruiting tactics while he was at OU and that taints some of his accomplishments. I think the cowboys won the super bowl inspite of Barry, certainly not because of him. You are right about Troy's disdain for Switzer but I don't recall(I lived in Dallas) him leading some kind of a mutiny against him. Troy liked tightly run practices, coaches who worked hard and rules that applied to everybody. Barry also was a embarrassing speaker...every sentence he ever spoke had a "G*D damn" or a " lets go baby" in it.
Youalso forget or never realized how much of a ball control offence the cowboys ran with Aikman. It seemed like Emmitt had about 60% of the touchdowns every year. Irvin had alot of catches in his career from Aikman but not many touchdowns.
Youalso forget or never realized how much of a ball control offence the cowboys ran with Aikman. It seemed like Emmitt had about 60% of the touchdowns every year. Irvin had alot of catches in his career from Aikman but not many touchdowns.
I would evaluate a QB's performance on winning if you don't want to use stats.Aikman was the most winningest QB of the 90's and any other decade throw in 3 Super Bowls and there you go.Another critera is leadership.Troy was the man.Ask Emmitt and Irvin who was in charge out there.Intelligence.I'm going to have to repeat myself here,but Aikman was a smart QB who wasn't prone to make that dumb mistake like Vick.When you watch Vick play does he look like a leader,like he has things under control.He often times looks lost and out of to control.Look at Montana and Favre they were field generals out there,in control.I brought Troy's playoff performances up because so many people are into stats so I wanted to show Aikman can put up the numbers.The bigger the game the better Troy plays which leads me to my next point.Now please read this.This is the third time I've said this.In fact I'll say it in another post.
Okay here goes.Guest301 has now said this a couple of times as well.Please read this and understand.When the Cowboys got down to the red zone they were going to try to run the ball in,got that,run the ball in and they were very succesfull at it.With one of the most dominating O-Lines ever coupled with having a guy who can find the endzone why not run it in.Got that.Now once again the Cowboys liked to run the ball when they got down there.In 1995 Emmitt had something like 25 rushing touchdowns,the Moose contributed a few as well.Aikman threw 16 TD's and only 7 pics,a good ratio.Why so few TD's,because the Cowboys liked to run the ball down there.Now if you get anything from this post hopefully it is that the Cowboys liked to run the ball when they get down there.
Bucky
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