Shutting down the 911 hoax thread

werewolf

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Jaxvid: " I guess this thread has run it's course and now we are just sniping at each other. I'll ask Don to lock the thread."

It ran its course and degenerated into sniping because you and your pals trashed it. You and your pals trashed it - and then you demanded it be closed because it's trashed!


ww
 
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Braveheart

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Jaxvid: " I guess this thread has run it's course and now we are just sniping at each other. I'll ask Don to lock the thread."

It ran its course and degenerated into sniping because you and your pals trashed it. You and your pals trashed it - and then you demanded it be closed because it's trashed!


ww

For what it's worth werewolf I think you're right about a lot of things, and I like reading your posts. It'd be a shame to see you stop posting.
 

Don Wassall

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That thread is closed, but the topic isn't. I should have jumped on Mattgianone's infantile name calling a little harder as he doesn't seem interested in discussing in a civil manner.

You can start a new 9/11 thread if you want, werewolf. And others can still read the closed one. I understand your frustration but sometimes it's best to lock a thread when the basic arguments and disagreements have been made and repeated by different posters and it devolves into something it wasn't intended to be.
 

Thrashen

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Since the previous 9-11 thread was interrupted…

Below are some pertinent quotes from the “Top Secret” memorandum, dated March 13[SUP]th[/SUP], 1962, delineating the master plan for “Operation Northwoods.” This initiative was proposed by L. L. Lemnitzer (then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) to the Kennedy administration...
“World opinion, and the United Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the international image of the Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere.”

“The suggested courses of action appended to Enclosure A satisfactorily respond to the statement of the problem. However, these suggestions should be forwarded as a preliminary submission suitable for planning purposes, and together with similar inputs from other agencies, provide a basis for development of a single, integrated, time-phased plan to focus all efforts on the objective of justification for US Military intervention in Cuba.”

“This plan, incorporating projects selected from the attached suggestion, or from out sources, should be developed to focus all efforts on a specific ultimate objective which would provide adequate justification for US military intervention. Such a plan would enable a logical build-up of incidents to be combined with other seemingly unrelated events to camouflage the ultimate objective and create the necessary impression of Cuban rashness and irresponsibility on a large scale, directed at other countries as we as the United States. The plan would also properly integrate and time phase the courses of action to be pursued. The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering definable grievances from a rash and irresponsible government and to develop and international image of Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

“A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.


Here are some of the more violent “ideas” proposed…

The incidents to establish a credible attack (not in chorological order):

(#5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.

(#6) Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).

(#7) Lob mortar shells from inside of base into base. Some damage to installations.

(#11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims.

(#3A) A “Remember the Maine” incident could be arranged in several forms:
a. We could blow up a US Ship in Guantanamo and blame Cuba.
b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in Cuban waters.

(#4) We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees and even in the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

(#6) An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban ***.

(#7) Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba.

(#8) It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

(#8a) An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted into a drone. Take off times for the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point, the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international frequency a “MAY DAY” stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interpreted by destruction of the aircraft and which will be triggered by radio signal.


Naturally, “Operation Northwoods” never actually occurred, however, if it had, I’m positive that the objective of this orchestrated ruse would have been easily reached. That is to say that the US would have indeed invaded Cuba, an act of aggression deed that would have, in the international eyes of humanity, seemed rather “justified.” You know, after all the fake information, news stories, explosions, riots, framing of innocent people, hijacking, bombing, funerals, etc., had been executed.

As Werewolf implied, this particular government-engineered discourse of “staged terror” for the unambiguous purpose of eliciting an “endorsement of war” from the American goyim is alarmingly similar to the events of 9/11/01 and so many other infamous Nationally Televised Death Scenes (that “triggered” some sort of nefarious consequence). Every word uttered by the perverted tongues of the Ivory Tower Dwellers should be unyieldingly questioned until undoubtedly proven to be truths.

Below are some of the scanned images of their little “Top Secret” (because some people are evidently more important than others) memorandum...
northwoods10.gif

northwoods11.gif

northwoods12.gif

northwoods13.gif

northwoods14.gif
 
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jaxvid

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It's not my point to argue that the US govt is capable of great acts of sabatoge and staged false flag events. The only thing I would make a point of is that it seemed from reading this information above that no people were to be killed, at least not intended, in any of those fake operations. Even the staged "swap" of an airliner for a "drone" was done, it appears, so as not to have to actually kill anyone. (otherwise why not shoot down the real thing?).

To me that is what is so unusual about the 911 incident, if it was in fact set up by our government knowing the tremendous damage and loss of life involved, it is a mega step in govt policy. Killing thousands of innocent americans for no other reason then to drag us into a small regional conflict that could have been acheived in other less heinious ways is unspeakably cruel and evil.

It also seems terribly risky. It would be impossible to know exactly what the consequences of taking down 3 skyscrapers in the middle of New York city during a busy work day would be. Why such risk when a much lesser event could have had the same favorable outcome? When you consider the political and financial fallout from the event I don't think it was a win situation for many involved.

Regardless of the information pro (and there is a lot of it!) or con as to 911 being a govt staged event the motivation and risk don't seem to add up.
 

Braveheart

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Considering the ease with which Israel got away with attacking the USS Liberty, it seems to me that anything is possible, even probable when it comes to the current powers that be. They've manufactured false-flag attacks and carried out assassinations plenty of times enough to be culpable in my eyes.

The news just seems like a joke ever since 9/11. We shouldn't be so worried about a bunch of "terrorists."
 

Thrashen

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It's not my point to argue that the US govt is capable of great acts of sabatoge and staged false flag events. The only thing I would make a point of is that it seemed from reading this information above that no people were to be killed, at least not intended, in any of those fake operations. Even the staged "swap" of an airliner for a "drone" was done, it appears, so as not to have to actually kill anyone. (otherwise why not shoot down the real thing?).

To me that is what is so unusual about the 911 incident, if it was in fact set up by our government knowing the tremendous damage and loss of life involved, it is a mega step in govt policy. Killing thousands of innocent americans for no other reason then to drag us into a small regional conflict that could have been acheived in other less heinious ways is unspeakably cruel and evil.

It also seems terribly risky. It would be impossible to know exactly what the consequences of taking down 3 skyscrapers in the middle of New York city during a busy work day would be. Why such risk when a much lesser event could have had the same favorable outcome? When you consider the political and financial fallout from the event I don't think it was a win situation for many involved.

Regardless of the information pro (and there is a lot of it!) or con as to 911 being a govt staged event the motivation and risk don't seem to add up.


Good point. Aside from some probable Cuban causality during planned rioting / raids / explosions / bombings associated with Operation Northwoods (a document first made public in 1997), the only people intended to be killed were the eventual victims of military conflict between Cuba and the U.S.
 

werewolf

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That thread is closed, but the topic isn't. I should have jumped on Mattgianone's infantile name calling a little harder as he doesn't seem interested in discussing in a civil manner.

You can start a new 9/11 thread if you want, werewolf. And others can still read the closed one. I understand your frustration but sometimes it's best to lock a thread when the basic arguments and disagreements have been made and repeated by different posters and it devolves into something it wasn't intended to be.


It is always the same. Always. If you take the trouble to set the record straight and address their misconceptions and lies point by point and treat them with respect they will do as they are taught to do and chant their mantras and scream "conspiracy theory" and "tin foil hat" and call you nasty names and try to cherry pick something that they think they can mock, and then trash the threads. They teach them to do that, how to react when confronted by dissident information that is not deemed kosher by their lords and masters. Besides the mindlessly obedient flag waving proles there are the "professionals", the sayanim, the jewish volunteers, the fifth column, and they police all the internet forums trying to protect the interest of their country, Israel, particularly when honest people dare to notice the 900 pound gorilla in the 911 living room - Israel.

Because 911 was made in Tel Aviv and Washington DC, and no Arab or Moslem country had anything to do with 911 except to serve as the fall guys, the patsies.

And there is not a one of them, from the highest to the lowest, that can defend the 911 lies in honest point by point debate. Not one. because the official fairy tale makes no sense, holds no water, bears no scrutiny whatsoever.

Bronk here posted a good quote from H L Menken on the London-ape thread. ""The men people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most are those who try to tell them the truth." The base mob always tries to shout down those who try to tell the truth. They lynched people who tried to keep the USA out of the fratricidal cynically manipulated world wars of the twentieth century.


ww
 

werewolf

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Operation Northwoods didn't occur only because President Kennedy nixed it. It was intended to be a series of false flag terror attacks to be blamed on Cuba so they could start a war with Cuba.

The Israelis' murderous sneak attack on the USS Liberty failed as a pretense to bomb Cairo and Egypt only because all the sailors aboard obstinately refused to die and the ship obstinately refused to go down, no thanks to the traitors LB Johnson and McNamara who the ordered fighter planes going to the aid of the Liberty to return to their carriers twice. It was supposed to be a false flag attack to start a war with Egypt.

You can go to Youtube and see the traitor Bush yukking it up, along with all the other politicians, over the Mossad-originated bull**** about Sadam's "weapons of mass destruction" that has resulted in the destruction of countless lives, including an unknown number of Americans.

In fact every single one of their wars were cynically manipulated by bull**** false flag attacks and or phony atrocity stories and bull**** stories about how the enemy du jour wants to take over the world and destroy our way of life etc etc.

Most people are herd animals and they will think and say whatever they are told to think and say by whatever is in power at any given point in time. Those who can think for themselves, however, now have the ability to bypass the owned and controlled media, thanks to the free internet, so now it doesn't take 50 years for their devil's lies - LIKE 911!!! - to come to light as it did in the past.

You see a lot of people on places like this and Stormfront who have sort of figured out that the white man ain't getting a fair shake by the politicians and the media, but they remain totally naive about the bigger picture and the ancient evil that is behind it.




ww
 

FootballDad

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I, like many on this forum, don't subscribe to the official story, or the all-in accounts trumpeted by werewolf and others, but think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. The idea that a group of people, any people, have such a finely-tuned plan for world subversion is illogical, considering the individual human condition. Of course, this isn't to say that it is impossible, it just can't be organized or orchestrated by a human. In a post from the "Fun Topic-Predictions 2010" thread, DixieDestroyer summerized it nicely:

.......Also, I don't believe the Zionists are the sole or (overall) controlling members of the PTB. I think the PTB/NWO is comprised of multiple tiers. At the tip-top is their ultimate master...Old Scratch himself. Next are the("Generals") are the dynasty families of the Rockefellers, Rothschilds (jews), etc. The next levels ("captains") are vermin like George Soros (jew), Sumner Redstone (aka Rothstein...jew), Maurice Strong, etc. The next level ("Lieutenants") are scum like Michael Bloomberg (jew), Javier Solana, Oprah, etc. The next level (Sergeants) are puppet heads of state like Gordon Brown, Obongo, Kofi Annan, etc. At the bottom are the "soldiers" like Napalitano, Juan McAmnesty, Rudy "Ghouliani", etc. Of course the entire pyramid structure pushes the One World, totalitarian, cultural Marxist, pro-eugenics, anti-sovereignty, anti-individualism platform.
I think the PTB "network" is comprised of multiple folks (as listed above), but the jews do have primary control of the Central Banking Cartel, Hollyweird, much of the MSM & Madison Avenue. They don't "run it all", but they have a BIG amount of control(s).
 

werewolf

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I, like many on this forum, don't subscribe to the official story, or the all-in accounts trumpeted by werewolf ...


WHAT "all-in accounts trumpeted by werewolf"? I'm telling people that the official 911 story is a load of bull and anyone with half a brain who honestly looks into it would know that, and I've known that since day one, and I know that the official story is untrue with 100% certainty - and I'm also telling people that Bush and Cheney and Chertoff and Silverstein and Zelikow and all the rest of the Neoconvicts and Washington politicians and the US media masters and Netanyahu and the Mossad were all in it right up to their yarmulkas.

_______________________________________

CNN Quickvote

Do you agree with Charlie Sheen that the U.S. government covered up the real events of the 9/11 attacks?

Yes 83&
No 17%


http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/23968.content.html


______________________________________________


"IT IS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CERTAIN THAT 911 WAS A MOSSAD OPERATION – PERIOD."

- Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former director of Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College



And Dr Sabrosky, by the way, is Jewish himself, an honest and righteous Jew.

______________________________________________________________________________



ISRAEL DID 911 - ALL THE PROOF IN THE WORLD:


http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5367




ww
 
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werewolf

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I've said enough on this subject. There are plenty of links for those who are actually interested in learning more about this critical card that their stinking house of cards is built upon - their wars without end and patriot acts and sexual molestation at airports and torture and mass murder and destruction of our freedom - they use 911 as an excuse for it all. The brain dead and the sayanim will continue to do their mocking and name calling and tin foil hat schtick and trash the threads. I got no interest in them.

So unless there are any honest and legit questions on the subject that I can answer here, I'm done.


ww



Interesting:

Barry Soetoro's leering house honky, Joe Biden, here confronted by a brave 911 truth man (who happens to be another righteous Jew, by the way). Biden's flunky says "show's over" and Biden and all his body guards run the f away!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW9sesBESSs




ww
 

FootballDad

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Like I said, I have no faith in the "official" government narrative on the events surrounding 9/11, but at the same time, have a hard time believing that literally thousands of people were in on an elaborate scheme to kill thousands of Americans and they have all remained silent. This would include the vast majority of our elected representatives. It is absurd, knowing the human condition, to expect that this is feasable. Bigunreals' NFL conspiracy theories, which have been mercilessly pilloried here at CF, are far more realistic.
 

werewolf

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Like I said, I have no faith in the "official" government narrative on the events surrounding 9/11, but at the same time, have a hard time believing that literally thousands of people...


That's already been addressed a number of times in the posts and on the links (that you haven't looked at). I've got no further interest in you. You can believe whatever the hell you want to believe, whatever the hell you see on your tv, and you can go on about "conspiracy theories" like they teach you to do. I would only hope that DW doesn't let you trash the threads that don't suit you with any more of your giant mocking cut and pastes, that's all.


ww
 

jaxvid

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I've said enough on this subject. There are plenty of links for those who are actually interested in learning more about this critical card that their stinking house of cards is built upon So unless there are any honest and legit questions on the subject that I can answer here, I'm done.
ww

I bet you're not done:

Here's some links too..

People in caves could not carry out the attack.
  • This racist comment ignores the education and training of the terrorists. Bin Laden graduated from college a civil engineer and some of the terrorists are out of college
  • You don't need government help or a university degree to scare passengers into thinking you have a bomb onboard.
  • You don't need government help to turn off an airliner transponder and hide among hundreds of other airliners in the area
http://www.debunking911.com/osama.htm
It's the first time in history a steel frame high-rise collapsed
  • It is not the first time a steel structure collapsed by fire
  • It's also the first time in history an airliner rammed into a steel hi-rise building built like the towers (Tube in a Tube design)
  • It's the first time in history a steel framed building built like Building 7 (Con Ed substation in the lower floors and a cantilever column core) was hit by another steel framed building.
  • unprotected steel collapsed within 2 1/2 hours in Madrid fire without being hit by anything
http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm
They collapsed into their own footprint
  • The floors of the towers fell straight down while the perimeter columns leaned out
  • These buildings could not collapse any other way due to the design of the building. It was not a solid block.
http://www.debunking911.com/towers.htm
Explosives were placed in the building during weekend power downs
  • Controlled demolition of much smaller buildings take months.
  • The power down can not be verified by any reliable source.
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Controlled_demolition#Weekend_power_down
A fireman said there were only two small fires in the towers
  • The fireman was on the 78th floor, the lowest of the impact floors on fire.
  • A wingtip was the only part of the airliner which entered the 78th floor.
  • The 78th floor is a skylobby which wouldn't have much to burn
  • The fires above the 78th floor had heavier fires which followed the fuel/combustibles.
  • If there were only two small fires on the 78th floor just before collapse, it only agrees with the NIST report. Cooling trusses contracted and pulled the columns in because the fires moved to other areas.
http://www.debunking911.com/fire.htm
The Madrid and Caracas tower fires lasted much longer yet those steel framed buildings never collapsed completely
  • Neither building had the tube in a tube design used at the WTC
  • Unlike the towers, both buildings had their steel columns encased in concrete
  • The steel which was not protected with concrete in the Madrid towers also collapsed early on just like in the towers
http://www.debunking911.com/madrid.htm
The towers were built to withstand more than one airliner impact
  • The NIST never said the impact collapsed the towers
  • The towers DID withstand the impact. It was a combination of fire, impact damage and lack of fireproofing over the steel in the impact levels which collapsed the towers.
http://www.debunking911.com/impact.htm
Ex UL employee (Underwriters Laboratory) Kevin Ryan says UL certified the steel of the towers which did not fail during testing for the NIST
  • UL does not certify steel. They certify assemblies which included fireproofing on the steel
  • Kevin Ryan worked as a water tester and did not have anything to do with the collapse investigation
  • Mr. Ryan was let go from UL because he was making false statements about the company
  • The steel assembly with 1/2 inch fireproofing was rated for only 45 minutes.
  • UL never tested steel assemblies without fireproofing
http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm
The towers lease owner was being forced to remove asbestos from the towers. It would have cost him billions of dollars to remove it all.
  • The towers only had asbestos up to the 38th floor of one building.
  • Asbestos does not need to be removed, only sealed with a spray on sealer.
http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm
The towers were white elephants and never reached full occupancy
  • The towers were at full occupancy at least since February of 2001. It was at 90% in 1998.
http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm
The photos and videos of the bowed columns were due to light refraction
  • Light refracts differently in different angles. It would be impossible for light to bend in refraction in exactly the same way on every camera and video lens regardless of angle
  • The bow was only on one side of each building. Why didn't it refract around the whole building if it was a product of heat?
  • Videos show the violent pull in of the columns at the beginning of global collapse. It would be impossible for it to be refracted light
http://www.debunking911.com/sag.htm
The NIST changed their mind and said the buildings did not pancake
  • The NIST never said pancaking caused the global collapse
  • The NIST was talking about what they investigated which was the collapse initiation. The collapse did not start by pancaking
  • There is photographic evidence of pancaking on ground zero which happened after collapse initiation
http://www.debunking911.com/collapse.htm
Silverstein said he "pulled" building 7. Pull is demolition terminology for blowing up the building
  • "Pull" is not demolition terminology for blowing up buildings.
  • Building 6 was literally pulled with cables which is why they said "We're about to pull building 6" in a PBS special.
  • Silverstein say "they" made the decision and not Silverstein
  • They made the decision to pull the rescue operation out.
  • The fire commander's statements agree with Silverstein's statement
  • Many firefighters said they were pulled away from building 7 because they feared the building would collapse
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
Building 7 only had a few small fires.
  • Building 7's south side was covered by smoke for most of the event.
  • Firefighters said the building's south side showed fires on multiple floors
  • Firemen said the building was "fully involved"
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
Building 7 had no or little structural damage
  • The firefighters put a transit on the building and concluded the building was going to collapse
  • There was a very large gash in the building which ran from the top floor to at least the tenth floor
  • Firemen said there was a 10 story hole in the middle of the building
http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm
The towers fell at free fall/near free fall speed
  • In every video and photo you can see the perimeter columns far outpacing the collapse.
  • The building took over 12-16 seconds to completely collapse. The actual event was covered by debris so no one can say for sure. One rare video has the south tower collapsing at about 22 seconds.
  • Conspiracy theorists cut their videos out when the perimeter columns hit the ground and not the building.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
Molten Steel found weeks after the collapse indicates the use of thermite.
  • No one has scientifically proven the molten substance was steel. Can even be molten glass coating steel or an aluminum mixed with something else
  • Steel can burn/oxidize and would explain red hot steel
  • The photo of firemen over a glowing hole in the ground cannot be molten steel. The heat would have been too great for the firemen
  • Thermite cannot cut columns without large canisters all around the column
  • No demolition in history ever had steel glow for weeks
  • Thermite needs another primary charge to set it off. It would have exploded during impact explosion
  • The amount of thermite needed to collapse the tower would have been massive. (Tons) Impossible to hide.
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm#molten
A Thermite reaction is seen flowing from a window in the south tower before it collapsed.
  • The size of the flow would mean tons of thermite was in that corner of the building. Impossible to hide
  • The flow turned grayish as it fell to the ground, more like aluminum
  • The flow was seen only from one window which happen to be where the majority of the aluminum plane would have come to rest
  • The molten flow changed its direction with the sagging floor. Thermite doesn't walk
  • A UPS system on the 81st floor can account for the molten flow
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm
Squibs were seen coming from the buildings
  • Because of the 'tube in a tube' design, each tower was about 95% air. Each story had an acre worth of floor space. The air from each story was compressed during the collapse. The air had to go someplace; out the window space, in staircases, down elevator shafts or other mechanical conduits. The compressed air is called "overpressure".
  • Firemen who survived the collapse in the buildings core felt the overpressure strong enough to push them down the stairs. They called it a "hurricane wind".
  • None of the so called "Squibs" could be seen before the collapse, which is evidence the collapse caused the effect.
  • Other very heavy equipment could have fallen down open elevator shafts (Elevators and motors, etc...) and rammed into floors blowing out windows on the floors and expelling ceiling tile debris.
  • The amount of these so called squibs are much smaller than would be expected in a controlled demolition, where charges are used on almost every floor.
  • Videos show squibs working in reverse from an explosive blast. The amount of ejected debris increases as the collapse progresses. Explosives don't work that way. Energy in an explosive is released almost instantly and would not get stronger over time.
  • What some say are squibs as building 7 collapses is nothing more than previously damaged exterior panels flapping about on a poor resolution internet video.
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm
People heard explosions indicating explosives were used
  • Each floor had about an acre of 3" - 4 " concrete flooring. The sound of that plus office furniture and equipment collapsing on an office below would make a very loud boom.
  • Steel snapping under tension would make a very loud boom.
  • Large transformers exploding in the building would make a very loud boom.
  • Large oil filled transformers exploding from the fire in WTC 7 could account for explosions heard in the building before collapsing
  • Many of the people who said they heard explosions also said they realized it was the building collapsing causing the sound.
  • Even bodies hitting the ground sounded like explosions to some people.
  • Some say "It was like" before saying what they heard.
  • People generally try to describe something hard to describe by saying it's like something most people know. Like the sound of a hurricane is often described as a freight train by survivors.
  • You would expect a few people who are under attack by terrorists to think a loud boom is an explosive going off.
http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm
"Scholars" say the collapse of the towers is impossible
  • None of the conspiracy "scholars" have passed a peer reviewed paper in a respected scientific journal saying the collapse of the towers was impossible.
  • Many peer reviewed papers have been passed in respected scientific journals saying the towers collapsed from impact and fire alone.
  • The few scholars who say they are structural engineers and are conspiracy theorists are not working in the field.
  • Dr. Fetzer wrote books on JFK and moon landing conspiracies.
  • Prof. Jones was a physicist who worked on cold fusion and not structural or civil engineering.
  • Prof. Judy Woods was a dental engineer and did not have a job in structural engineering.
  • Gordon Ross is not a structural engineer. None of his so called "papers" have passed peer review by a respected scientific journal. He hasn't made a single attempt in a respected journal.
  • The scholars for 9/11 truth created their own journal which has no impact to the scientific community and is created by and for the conspiracy theorist community.
  • Conspiracy theorists haven't tried to pass a peer reviewed paper in a respected scientific journal. This proves they have little faith in their own work.
  • Structural engineers in Jones own university call his hypothesis "very unreliable".
http://www.debunking911.com/jones.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/civil.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm
http://911-engineers.blogspot.com/

Dr. Steven Jones says he found evidence of controlled demolition on Ground Zero in the form of Sulfur and Iron Spheres in the dust sample.
  • Sulfur is found in gypsum board
  • Iron Spheres come from flyash found in structural concrete,magnetic printer toner, torch-cutting of steel beams as part of the cleanup, aircraft impact, collapse,
  • The iron-rich content of all dust samples was between 0.1 and 1.3%. Not high enough to suggest it came from large amounts of melted steel.
  • Could have been there before collapse created during the construction of of one of the many buildings in NY.
  • Iron Spheres could be created by oxidation or chemical reactions during moderate office fires.
http://www.debunking911.com/jones.htm#Iron%20Spheres

They would only need a handful of people to pull it off
  • They would have needed thousands for the conspiracy story to be true
http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm
A large portion of the American population believe the government planned 9/11
  • The polls are worded in a way to conflate the government hiding their incompetence with government involvement in 9/11.
  • Only 4.2% believe the government blew up the towers. 26.5% believe the government let Bin Laden fly planes into the building. That number is well below the 34% who believe in UFO's
  • If a large percentage of people believe the conspiracy story then why doesn't it show when they interrupt live events? Why no sympathy from the vast majority in attendance?
http://www.debunking911.com/zogby.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/tactic.htm

hehe, let the firworks begin.....
 

FootballDad

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That's already been addressed a number of times in the posts and on the links (that you haven't looked at). I've got no further interest in you. You can believe whatever the hell you want to believe, whatever the hell you see on your tv, and you can go on about "conspiracy theories" like they teach you to do. I would only hope that DW doesn't let you trash the threads that don't suit you with any more of your giant mocking cut and pastes, that's all.


ww
Just because I don't subscribe to exactly the same theories that you do does not make my position any less legitimate. I have not engaged in "trashing" any of your posts or your arguments, as you purport in your reply. I DO find it tiring that you accuse anybody that doesn't see things like you do as "believing everything you see on your tv" or worse, accusing us of toeing the "zionist"-line. As for what you describe as a mocking cut-and-paste, I was just inserting a bit of levity to a thread that needed it. I guess that the Jews must have removed your sense of humor.
 

werewolf

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Jaxvid googled up a shill website to cut and paste.

I ain't gonna waste any more time on you either, champ. You already showed what you were on the other thread, and you ignored every single link and every single refutation of your misinformation and disinformation that I and others took the trouble to post, and then you yucked it up when your buddy trashed the thread.

I will just address the first of your long shill-points that you cut and pasted on the shill-site that you googled up.




People in caves could not carry out the attack.

  • This racist comment ignores the education and training of the terrorists. Bin Laden graduated from college a civil engineer and some of the terrorists are out of college

--- What the f does that have to do with "racism"? These are the sons of bitches that amuse themselves by trashing entire nations and mass murdering and torturing millions of poor people on the far side of the world that they call ragheads and hajis, and we who oppose their bull**** wars for wall street and the drug cartells and israhell, we're the racists!?


--- Here's where they told us Bin Boogyman lived, in a a giant super-cave in the Himalayan foothills. Asscroft then said that he had many of these super caves, not just one. The video of him saying that is on Youtube. They even drew us an elaborate diagram of bin Boogy's cave. What happened? Did he f'ing get evicted and move into a slum apartment next door to army HQ in Karachi?

netherpopup.gif

  • You don't need government help or a university degree to scare passengers into thinking you have a bomb onboard.
I thought it was supposed to be boxcutters? But you f'ing DO need government help to pull it off on the very day when the government was holding multiple war games for that exact thing (even tho they told us FOR MONTHS that they never dreamed that such a thing could occur - one of the two things that tipped me off immediately that they were lying), and you f'ing DO need government help to fly your four hijacked passenger jets through the most highly protected airspace in the world on the highest alert day in US history, lazily zigzagging the hijacked planes all over from upstate NY to Ohio and West Virginia and the Kentucky border, TOTALLY UNMOLESTED BY MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR NORAD - while the President lazily chitchats about pet goats at a publicly announced photo op, even tho the USA was supposedly being attacked by an unknown power with unknown forces at its disposal, and NYC was getting the **** kicked out of it, and the vice president in the White House basement was barking out orders to DO NOTHING about the incoming hijacked plane.

One of the hijacked planes flew directly over Storm King nuclear power plant while taking the scenic route through upstste NY, and if 911 was real they could have just crashed it into the roof and in one fell swoop brought "the great satan" to its knees by rendering the entire NYC metropolitan area uninhabitable for all time to come. If 911 was real. But it wasn't.

Also if 911 was real they would have hijacked the biggest planes with the most fuel, that is headed for Europe or S. America, and with no nonsense about herding passengers to the rear and telling them to call home because they're about to die (the last thing real hijackers would do!), they would have just flown them straight at their target because they would have known that NORAD would be intercepting them. But 911 was not real.







That's it, Jaxvid. Read, what I said to your Football Daddy buddy here. The same applies to you. Believe whatever the f you want to believe. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.



ww
 

FootballDad

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Here's a good one for you folks, according to werewolf's signature website, the 9/11 truther movement is controlled by the SAME PEOPLE that orchestrated the attacks! So, in theory, both "official" and "truther" movements and information are all BS. But he says we don't read anything he posts and disparages anybody who doesn't agree with him. "Football Daddy buddy" indeed!

....The facts will make it abundantly clear that the so-called 9/11 “Truthâ€￾ movement has been infiltrated and is ultimately controlled by the same criminal group who masterminded the attacks. As they say, ‘if you want to control the dissent you lead the dissent.’

But of course our website is the right one, we aren't controlled by the Jews! Honest!
 

Colonel_Reb

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:frusty::fencing:
 

Thrashen

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Werewolf said:
One of the hijacked planes flew directly over Storm King nuclear power plant while taking the scenic route through upstste NY, and if 911 was real they could have just crashed it into the roof and in one fell swoop brought "the great satan" to its knees by rendering the entire NYC metropolitan area uninhabitable for all time to come. If 911 was real. But it wasn't.

For those unaware, Werewolf is referring to “Indian Point Energy Center,” a nuclear power plant located in Buchanan, NY. According to the hallowed “official report,” Mohamed Atta allegedly piloted American Airlines Flight #11 into the North WTC Tower…but not before casually flying over this particular nuclear plant. As Werewolf mentioned, creating even a small leak in the reactor core (especially given the plant’s proximity to the Hudson River) would cause far more chaos to Jew York City than haphazardly ramming airplanes in the top tier of two skyscrapers.

But, of course, I can anticipate the simple rebuttal…“Well, those bloodthirsty A-Rab’s sought to annihilate the WTC because it is a major symbol of American corporate greed!”

Assuming that this sensational act was indeed their “Muslim Master Plan” (you know, as opposed to the “Israeli Master Plan” of those who framed them)…well, I can surely identify with their sentiments. If only white men would find the requisite spinal column to commit such a disobedient act against their oppressors (a race war, for instance).

You all remember these ubiquitous photos of Mr. Atta, right? Yes, how could we forget?



Atta_in_airport.jpg


It’s interesting to note that Atta’s father (a retired lawyer residing in Egypt) passionately refutes the notion that his son was involved in the 9-11 attacks whatsoever. He’s emphatically stated (in several interviews) that the Israeli terrorist organization, Mossad, in conjunction with the U.S. Z.0.G., the CIA, and the FBI have successfully framed his son. Atta’s father also claimed to have had a phone conversation with Atta on September 13, 2001. Atta’s father stated in 2002 that his son is currently in hiding…however, during a 2005 interview; Atta’s father stated that “My son is gone. He is now with God. The Mossad killed him.”

For the record…I would absolutely believe Atta’s father over any “government official” representing the white-abhorring, goy-enslaving, corporate-media-manipulated, Yarmulke-piloted United States of Western Israel. Naturally, the complete and utter reverse of their “official opinion” is where the truth can always be located.

Werewolf said:
Also if 911 was real they would have hijacked the biggest planes with the most fuel, that is headed for Europe or S. America, and with no nonsense about herding passengers to the rear and telling them to call home because they're about to die (the last thing real hijackers would do!), they would have just flown them straight at their target because they would have known that NORAD would be intercepting them. But 911 was not real.

To be fair, both UA flight # 175 and AA flight #11 were large Boeing 767’s (both out of Boston, Massachusetts) heading on transcontinental flights to Los Angeles. I fully understand your point, though…I would have selected a pair of flights heading to Australia or New Zealand. But if the buildings were indeed already fitted with explosive charges (which, in the mysterious footage of WTC 7, appears to be the case), a few thousand more gallons of jet fuel makes little difference.
 
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jaxvid

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Actually if I had rigged the buildings with explosives I would've faked another truck bomb. Much easier to do, you don't have to bother with the hijacking of the plane all of the fake stories about flight school, all the fake stories about fake arabs living a fake life in preperation for a fake hijacking and building crash.

Just rent a truck fill it with fertilizer crash it into the base and set off the detonation. It worked in Oklahoma City didn't it? Much easier.

To clarify, did mossad agents fly the plane into the building and thus give up their lives for a limited war on Iraq? Or was the plane a drone? Or did they actually let the arabs do it and then pull the trigger on the explosives? Which version of the conspiracy is the right one? It's very hard to sort it all out! :dodgy:
 

Quiet Speed

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After the attack, the first question that I asked was how could such an elaborate conspiracy escape our intelligence. It almost seemed improbable. If you have the time, and have not seen it, please watch Nova’s Spy Factory. A monumental failure of intelligence or outright malfeasance, mainly by the NSA, is covered. Of course, the program is working from the framework that Al Qaeda solely orchestrated the attack. The take away quote for me is “the NSA had all the information to stop the hijackersâ€￾.

Spy Factory Part 1
Spy Factory Part 2
Spy Factory Part 3
Spy Factory Part 4
 
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Good work Jaxvid! You summed the defense of the facts perfectly.
I have been laughing at a few of you people with your wild conspiracy theories. I had my doubts at the beginning, but the more I learn about this event the more the facts seemed to support the official story.
I am not bother by some of the wild statements. I believe that it is good to not except every statement the government says as the absolute truth. It is good to question and to think for yourself.
 
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It's pretty hard to believe a government that can't even create a plausible fake birth certificate could successfully pull off some overly elaborate false flag.
 
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