Religion

[Carolina Speed]

Nearly every scripture you quote is not the words of Jesus, they are the words of Pual/Saul in his admonishments to the various churches to essentially do things the more Talmudic way.

And for all your "proof." You still haven't answered a question I posed to you almost two years ago. How can you being gentile enter into the paradise or heaven that Jesus promised?

And don't give me that sorry cop out of "oh well one of the the thieves that were crucified with him may not have been Jewish."

In his own words in your holy book, Jesus said " I have not come but to save the house of the children of Israel." and then proceeded to make the individual debase themselves as a dog. Kinda sounds a little too familiar.

OK, how about these? John, 3:16, John, 4:14,(Samaritan Woman), John 5:24, John, 8:12, John 10:14-16, Matthew, 8:5-13(Roman Centurion's faith in Jesus) and Matthew, 28-19.

The (1) verse you talking about found in Matthew 15, 21-28 where Jesus in talking to a Canaanite woman; has Jesus using the term dog. First, Jesus was in gentile territory and often was there ministering to gentiles. There are a few interpretations as to what Jesus meant in these verses: some say it was a test of the woman's faith, which she passed as evidenced by Jesus saying in verse 28, saying, "woman you have great faith," and then Jesus grants her request by healing her daughter.

Why would Jesus minister to her and her daughter, if he didn't come for the gentiles also?

Also, the term dog was not identified as an insult in those days, but more like a cynic or skeptic. Jesus in this passage is making a distinction gentiles and Jews, being the Jews were expected to believe the Jewish God.

How many do you need? It will possibly never be enough for you. No matter how many verses I show you, you're going to hang what you believe on 1 verse in Matthew 15, 21-28, that you don't understand. I gave you 7 verses that say Jesus came for everyone. He speaks about the faith of both a Roman Centurion and a Samaritan woman.

Read John 10, 14-16. How do you interpret those verses?

 

[Awake in America]

This entire "the Jews took away muh Odin" strain that has popped up on the Right is mainly due to one thing: Dispensationalism. Some relatively uneducated and weird people started interpreting Scripture in such a way as to end up as ultra-Zionists that think they can bring the Second Coming by using a few Hebrew words at church, or going to the Wailing Wall, or voting GOP, or something. A couple of influential Christian publishers fell for it, and the rest is unfortunate history. That only goes back a little over a hundred years, but it really became popular over the last 70 years (bonus points if you can figure out the significance of that time period). This nicely combined with the do-gooder mentality of Progressivism to destroy much of the Church. What we now see in our perverted public morality is not the fulfillment of Christianity, but the wake of its retreat. There's not going to be an Odinist/pagan Great Awakening, and atheists are often great tools of the Jews (I F**king LOVE SCIENCE types, Bolshevism, etc...). Either Christianity re-flexes its muscle, or the descent to Gomorrah continues. I predict that the descent continues.

There is nothing Jewish about the morality taught by Christianity, which is why they are so persistent in trying to destroy it. I would encourage everyone to think about that. The Israel love taught by people like John Hagee is a very new thing, and is in dire need of pushback from earlier traditions. The mainline churches have embraced this thing, as have the Evangelicals (BIGTIME) and the Mormons. Hippie Jesus, The Zionist, is a new thing that John Calvin and Martin Luther would not recognize.

 

[Extra Point]

I was watching a TV show with a "Catholic" priest and I said "I wonder when he'll start defending Islam." Sure enough, within a few minutes he started talking about how wonderful Islam was except for a few extremists.

The next day there was a "Catholic" on the Charlie Rose show. He starting defending Islam by claiming that Muslims and Christians worship the same god and implying that the religions are equal.

There seems to be a concerted effort by "Catholic" leaders to support and defend Islam, a religion which seeks to wipe out Christianity.

I put the word Catholic in quotation marks because I cannot consider those who defend Islam as genuine Catholics. Instead they are leftist propagandists who seek to destroy Christianity.

 

[Sport]

OK, how about these? John, 3:16, John, 4:14,(Samaritan Woman), John 5:24, John, 8:12, John 10:14-16, Matthew, 8:5-13(Roman Centurion's faith in Jesus) and Matthew, 28-19.

The (1) verse you talking about found in Matthew 15, 21-28 where Jesus in talking to a Canaanite woman; has Jesus using the term dog. First, Jesus was in gentile territory and often was there ministering to gentiles. There are a few interpretations as to what Jesus meant in these verses: some say it was a test of the woman's faith, which she passed as evidenced by Jesus saying in verse 28, saying, "woman you have great faith," and then Jesus grants her request by healing her daughter.

Why would Jesus minister to her and her daughter, if he didn't come for the gentiles also?

Also, the term dog was not identified as an insult in those days, but more like a cynic or skeptic. Jesus in this passage is making a distinction gentiles and Jews, being the Jews were expected to believe the Jewish God.

How many do you need? It will possibly never be enough for you. No matter how many verses I show you, you're going to hang what you believe on 1 verse in Matthew 15, 21-28, that you don't understand. I gave you 7 verses that say Jesus came for everyone. He speaks about the faith of both a Roman Centurion and a Samaritan woman.

Read John 10, 14-16. How do you interpret those verses?

It's like talking to a dog, I know you hear me but you clearly can't understand.

Matthew 15:14 is you to a T.

 

[Carolina Speed]

It's like talking to a dog, I know you hear me but you clearly can't understand.

Matthew 15:14 is you to a T.

Someone's let another child loose on CF.

I present the evidence for what the Bible says about Jesus as the savior for both Jews and Gentiles and your answer is, a try at a childish insult and name calling.

It's too bad that you're the blind one. Maybe one day, God will reveal himself to you. I pray that he will.

In the meantime, you keep on with the condescending remarks. It shows your level of maturity.

 

[FootballDad]

I was watching a TV show with a "Catholic" priest and I said "I wonder when he'll start defending Islam." Sure enough, within a few minutes he started talking about how wonderful Islam was except for a few extremists.

The next day there was a "Catholic" on the Charlie Rose show. He starting defending Islam by claiming that Muslims and Christians worship the same god and implying that the religions are equal.

There seems to be a concerted effort by "Catholic" leaders to support and defend Islam, a religion which seeks to wipe out Christianity.

I put the word Catholic in quotation marks because I cannot consider those who defend Islam as genuine Catholics. Instead they are leftist propagandists who seek to destroy Christianity.

On the contrary. According the the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 841, Muslims are just as good as Catholics. Here it is:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.

 

[jaxvid]

On the contrary. According the the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 841, Muslims are just as good as Catholics. Here it is:

Taken out of context much? That paragraph is describing "those people that have not received the Gospel (but) are related to the People of God in various ways". That hardly means they are equal.

It is infinity harder to get into the Catholic heaven then it is for many Protestant sects that believe getting dunked in the water and forgiving themselves of whatever heinous evil they may have done is all that is needed. Do you really believe that a religion with about a hundred sacraments for its members is giving a pass to non-Christians?

 

[Carolina Speed]

Taken out of context much? That paragraph is describing "those people that have not received the Gospel (but) are related to the People of God in various ways". That hardly means they are equal.

It is infinity harder to get into the Catholic heaven then it is for many Protestant sects that believe getting dunked in the water and forgiving themselves of whatever heinous evil they may have done is all that is needed. Do you really believe that a religion with about a hundred sacraments for its members is giving a pass to non-Christians?

I don't know about a Catholic heaven or protestant heaven. I only know about the heaven that Jesus talked about in John 3:16.

The Bible also says on many occasions that works alone will get you no where.. "It is by grace you are saved through faith, not of yourselves, it is a gift from God-NOT BY WORKS....Ephesians 2:8.

if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing." Galatians 2:21.

If we could get to heaven on works or upholding the Law, sacraments, etc., what was the purpose of Jesus's death?

Jaxvid, maybe you were kidding about some protestants thinking that getting dunked and forgiving themselves would save them, but that's obviously wrong.

 

[jaxvid]

I don't know about a Catholic heaven or protestant heaven. I only know about the heaven that Jesus talked about in John 3:16.

The Bible also says on many occasions that works alone will get you no where.. "It is by grace you are saved through faith, not of yourselves, it is a gift from God-NOT BY WORKS....Ephesians 2:8.

if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing." Galatians 2:21.

If we could get to heaven on works or upholding the Law, sacraments, etc., what was the purpose of Jesus's death?

Jaxvid, maybe you were kidding about some protestants thinking that getting dunked and forgiving themselves would save them, but that's obviously wrong.

The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine about works and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic salvation theology is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God's grace--completely unmerited by works--that one is saved.


The Church teaches that it's God's grace from beginning to end which justifies, sanctifies, and saves us. As Paul explains in Philippians 2:13, "God is the one, who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work."

 

[Extra Point]

On the contrary. According the the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 841, Muslims are just as good as Catholics. Here it is:

I'm no theologian but my understanding is that all the mainstream branches of Christianity, including Catholicism, teach the substitutionary atonement of Christ.

Islam does not believe in this.

What was quoted about the Church's view on Islam sounds as if it was written recently, in the past few decades, by the leftists who now control the Catholic Church. They support the invasion of White countries by the Muslims.

Leftists are notorious for rewriting definitions to advance their communist, anti-white agenda. For example the definition of racism has been changed in dictionaries so that it only applies to white people.

Communists posing as Catholics call what they believe "Liberation Theology," when it's nothing but plain old communism.

Is this pro Muslim stance recent or has it always been part of Catholicism?

 

[FootballDad]

Taken out of context much? That paragraph is describing "those people that have not received the Gospel (but) are related to the People of God in various ways". That hardly means they are equal.

It is infinity harder to get into the Catholic heaven then it is for many Protestant sects that believe getting dunked in the water and forgiving themselves of whatever heinous evil they may have done is all that is needed. Do you really believe that a religion with about a hundred sacraments for its members is giving a pass to non-Christians?

Hey jaxvid, in the interest of brevity, I opted to just put in the single paragraph, but if it's context that you want, then context you will get. Here are the surrounding paragraphs:

• 839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."[325] The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] "the first to hear the Word of God."[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",[328] "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."[329]
• 840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
• 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]
• 842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city . . . [331]
• 843 "The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as 'a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.'

Now, if it is stating in paragraph 841 above that there are those within the Muslim community who may find salvation by becoming Christians and not remaining Muslims, then I would agree. But, it does not appear to be saying this.


What is disturbing is the statement that "together with us they [Muslims] adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." So, Catholics and Muslims both "adore the one, merciful God." Quite frankly, it would seem that the Roman Catholic church has a faulty understanding of the God of Islam.

 

[jaxvid]

Is there that much in that section most Christians would object to? It can be read a lot of different ways, and I think that's the idea.

That catechism was written, I believe by Pope John Paul II. He's post Vatican II so he's a lefty but of course no where as near as much as the current crop. I think it's poorly organized and a bit rambling, odd since they usually poor over that stuff for years with various committees.

Clearly he is trying to create a path for all people to reach salvation and at the same time defend the classic Catholic rites. The other option is to say, "hey all you non-believers, you're going to hell." The Catholic Church is large and present in growing numbers in a lot of Muslim areas. It's a better strategy to emphasize similarities then exacerbate differences.

I don't like the squishiness regarding the Muslims, but they do consider Jesus a prophet, and if in some time in the future the Muslim worlds move into the first world they are going to be looking for something else besides suicide bombers, female slavery, complete avoidance of alcohol, and the whole islamic routine. Maybe they become ripe to convert at that point? I'm guessing that is the long term strategy.

 

[FootballDad]

Good reply, jax, but I expect that from you. I hope that you're right. Of course, the official Papal view of Allah is, on the surface, ignorant, but that's not something that really effects salvation for the church body, the people. Catholicism is rife with extra-biblical tradition and other dogma that is far more critical.

Cheers!

 

[Sport]

Someone's let another child loose on CF.

I present the evidence for what the Bible says about Jesus as the savior for both Jews and Gentiles and your answer is, a try at a childish insult and name calling.

It's too bad that you're the blind one. Maybe one day, God will reveal himself to you. I pray that he will.

In the meantime, you keep on with the condescending remarks. It shows your level of maturity.

God, and here I was wondering why i hadn't been on in so long. You talk about maturity, and try to maintain some fake "holier than thou" on this thread. Yet are more than willing to call names and be generally hostile to someone who disagrees with you.
You are 100% unable to provide any empirical evidence. The Bible is not evidence anymore than Hitchens collections are evidence. You are too stupid to see the issue. Hence, "Like a dog." You hear and respond but they are Pavlovian responses; you don't & can not understand.
I'm on the side of White in response to your latest bit of slander. You are on the side of the ****, you worship the ****. And you are brainwashed to think that Christianity is the creation and answer for the white race. You are a fool on the level of Hitler. You think anything intellectual that makes you reason is of the "cultural marxists." And the insanity of it all is because of people just like you that we are where we are today in race relations.
You and your ilk could never frame it in any what that is palatable to a non-white audience.
You and your sad predictions of extinction; while praying to your oppressor.
You are a blight on the white race, to stupid to check the wind and too stubborn to learn to adapt rhetoric.