Olympic Final Four

[KG2422]

Well said Bart.

 

[celticdb15]

Riggins is giving credit where it is due. We cannot blind ousleves that every black is overrated and we must realize some can play. Riggins has also said he is a moderate on this site. That covers the sport part of it. As for the political stuff please stick to that in happy hour. Every thread is now turning in to the same sh*t.I too care about the outcome of the white race but come on, we are here to cheer the white not say how we wil be doomed in a matter of time. This will be my lastpost on this, fromnow on i am sticking to SPORTS topics! I know i will probably get blasted but whatever call me a troll.Edited by: celticdb15

 

[Guest]

Glory, I don't think the refs had anything to do with the outcome.

The second half saw the refs call it much better, but the first half was horrible. Don't you remember that stretch in the second quarter when the fans in the stadium erupted into several minutes of catcalls and booing because of the bad calls against Spain? If the USA-loving fans in that Chinese arena could see what was going on and be outraged by it, it must have been pretty obvious.

You say it did not affect the outcome, but there were at least three key fouls called in the midst of that Spain run. At least one of those was on Rudy, and he ended up fouling out, ruining their fourth quarter run.

While I agree that the bias in the game was nowhere near as bad as an NBA game, enough of it happened in that first half to really affect the outcome. Especially when you consider how deeply in foul trouble USA was. If just those three bad calls on Spain had been correctly assessed as offensive fouls on USA, it might have been C. Paul, L. James, or K. Bryant fouling out, instead of Rudy.

 

[Bart]

Riggins has also said he is a moderate on this site. That covers the sport part of it. As for the political stuff please stick to that in happy hour.

If you will follow the thread you will find it hadveered off into certain directions. It's what happens when several people contribute and questions are asked.I personally find itinteresting and educational. If you would rather steer the discussion back to the original track.... no one would stop you.

 

[Guest]

Once again we see that the field has indeed caught up to the US. If Ginobili had not been injured, the US would probably have won the Argentina game by less than 10. It won the Spain game by 11.

If the US does not send their best, most organized team to London in 2012, they will lose. Never again will the US be able to put 12 random black players on the team and automatically win an international tournament.

I am struck by how pathetic white americans have become at basketball, to the point that we have to assume that had the US sent 12 white basketball players to Beijing, the US would have been unable to win. That's ridiculous.

 

[bigunreal]

Nevada,

White Americans are not "pathetic" at basketball. They are denied the opportunity to play at the highest levels, thanks to the Caste System.

I have been coaching youth basketball for over a decade, and I can testify that there is a lot of fantastic young white talent out there. The problem starts in high school, where practically any black with size or speed automatically gets a spot on the freshmen/jv/varsity team over a white of comparable (or better) ability. It works exactly like Affirmative Action works in the business world.

I had a nice discussion tonight, with my son and his friend, about the lack of American players in the NBA. Just in recent years, we see how NCAA stars like Mike Gancy and Kevin Pittsnogle are denied the chance to even be on an NBA roster, while countless blacks who did nothing in college are given their spots. Then we have superstars like J.J. Reddick and Adam Morrison, who either don't play at all (Reddick) or are only allowed to have a minimal impact on their team (Morrison).

What percentage of the NBA would be white, without all the foreign players? It is a complete joke that white Americans are being frozen out, by a strict Caste policy, from playing professional basketball in their own country.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

I am so proud of Spain. Of course I would have preferred an outright victory, but it's like Rocky Balboa versus Apollo Creed -- how could a group of relative nobodies, with the exception of their two minor "stars", go toe to toe with the alleged "best in the world" and nearly hand these spoiled millionaires a richly deserved defeat?

The American basketball team, considering its millionaire salaried players and nonsensical "dream team" not to mention racial superiority hype, not blow out Spain?

The true Dream Team from 1992 (which had the good sense to at least include John Stockton, Chris Mullen, Larry Bird and a rather confused Christian Laetner) blasted everyone. That was when basketball wasn't nearly as popular in Europe as it is now, and back when NBA stars actually knew how to play basketball properly (ie, not having points handed to them by getting freebies with the palming, traveling, charging, etc.).

This new Dream Team is a joke and the very idea that some random Spanish White guys nearly made them get Knock T.F.O. is a disgrace. It would be like the friggin New England Patriots nearly losing a game to a local community college team.

On a positive note, I am glad that the American boxing squad for the most part got their a$$es handed to them, and being a second generation Italian American I am so glad for Italy's boxing gold.

 

[Guest]

There is no caste system in basketball. Which position in basketball are white players not allowed to play?

Morrison has been given plenty of chances to play at the highest level. He also missed a year to injury. He will come back and play again.

Reddick is getting a bad deal. Hopefully he gets traded to a team that will play him. He should definitely get a chance. He'll never be a great player at the highest level though.

Pittsnogle is not good enough to play at the highest level.

You can put those 3 guys and 9 other white Americans on a team and they will not win the Olympic tournament.

If those are the best examples you can come up with, I will assume that I am correct about white Americans being bad at basketball right now relative to their numbers. Perhaps the general population is discouraged from trying hard, the way they are discouraged from trying hard at sprinting. An aggressive national program is in order, something similar to the Australian sports institute.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

But one of the things I hope for is that when whites drop below 50% of the American populous, which will likely happen in my lifetime (I am 28 years old), that other groups will stop treating us like we are the privileged group that has to be brought down a notch. I honestly think with the the increase in numbers of other races that whites will start demanding fair policies again (an end to A.A politics) and the still present white majority government will follow the people's lead. But I think things are going to improve and other groups will start treating whites as friends and not suspiciously.

Riggins, in my opinion you are very naive or perhaps a most clever troll. We are rapidly descending into the abyss. When we are in the minority our situation can only get worse, not better. Have you not read the history of South Africa, Rhodesia, Haiti, and many other countries?I'm sure you have, you're obviously well informed and intelligent. Your posts contain as much praise and admiration for blacks as they do whites. They would be endorsed by the Rainbow Coalition. You try to convince us that we are all the same under the superficial veneer of skin color. That is the FATAL mistake made by white people.As blacks and browns gain more and nore power, they use every possible resource to advance their agendas, not ours.They will take everything for themselves, destroying us in the process. We need to educate our people NOW while we still have the opportunity.

I really don't want to turn this into an argument, but I don't like being called "perhaps a clever troll". Am I naive, I don't think so, I come from a significantly different Canadian culture Bart. I have started to become a little less trusting of other groups since I now live in NJ, with the disorder, political problems and racial tension between different ethnic groups.

Secondly, I 100% agree with this site's message against stereotyping and zealous discrimination in sports. I even agree with most of the political views, except the more extreme posters on the site. I agree that the Duke Lacrosse hoax was a witch hunt against the "rich white boys" from a school hated by the Marxist media and the support of the "Jena 5" was disgusting. I am firmly against Affirmative Action, if I wasn't that would make me a troll.

I would actually be pretty nervous if blacks did become the more dominant group than whites politically and numbers wise and would probably move to Ireland or something. Blacks would probably start seeking reparations ridiculous entitlements etc. from whites to get back at us for the past. I wouldn't be all that nervous with Hispanics in charge (some of them are actually quite white btw) as long as they start learning English more and try to adapt to American culture. I too like the rest of you want more National guard on the Mexican/ U.S border and a more complete wall to stop the ridiculously growing hoard of illegal immigrants.

However, there are many people of other races here and we will never go back to segregation, so the best thing to do is to try to make peace with them if we can. I am definitely more trusting of other groups than most on this site. In Canada I met some really nice people of other races and even made friends with a few. America will continue to have whites as the largest demographical group in all of us Castefootballer's lifetimes although when us younger posters are old we may drop below the 50% margin. The doom and gloom theories are overly pessimistic. It just so happens that there might be less white guilt causing favoritism toward other groups by the white elites when other racial groups standard of living increases and that was my point. I want everyone's standard of living in this country to be reasonable even though I realize it isn't always possible.

If Obama gets elected, I would be very upset as he is an afro-centric far left radical. Basically I am a moderate for this site, but overall many of my views would be considered significantly right of center. I was not a huge supporter of Ron Paul, but really liked some of his ideas and would definitely prefer him to Obama. But Paul's tax and economic policy and legislation policies where too libertarian IMO, many of his other ideas, morals, foreign policy, fighting special interests were brilliant. Paul is clearly better than Obama despite the fact that few in this country would say that. I truly want to fight for this site, so me and you will just have to agree to disagree on the way to do it Bart.

Please PM me next time if you want to discuss the troll issue. I really hate being called a troll when I try to do a lot against the caste system. Good night and good luck!

Edited to add: BTW McCain has shifted to the right on his illegal immigration stance and I think his plan is better now. I heard something of the sort that McCain wants to increase the fines that illegals have to pay to naturalize and slow the process. They will have to prove they truly want to be an American. He also wants to secure the border "first" now. We simply can't IMO deport a whole 15 million illegals and break up their families. Lets bring them out of the shadows, deport only the criminal ones and get them paying taxes. This will help our current deficit situation caused by Bush's stupid economic and moronic Iraq war idea. It will also help save our health care system to stop the ever increasing flow of illegals problem.

Still think I'm a troll Bart?

BTW Don, if you would like to move my reply to Bart to Happy hour I will not complain if you do so. I just want people to know that I am behind the theme of the site.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[bigunreal]

Nevada,

You are completely clueless if you actually believe that there is no Caste system in basketball. Yes, it works differently than it does in football, but it most certainly is a reality.

The reason I could cite so few examples of college players denied the chance to play in the NBA, from recent years, is because the Caste system begins in youth select and AAU leagues, and really takes hold in high school. This didn't happen overnight; I graduated from high school in 1974, and there was one black player on our high school basketball team my senior year. He was the only one who tried out, and he was terrible. He made the team in order to fill a quota, just like any other Affirmative Action hire. There were at least 25 guys who tried out for that team who were better.

In recent years, due to my participation as a coach in select basketball leagues, I've seen some unbelievable things. I've attended countless select tryouts, and one thing never changes; if a black kid shows up, and has any speed or size, he makes the team. Period. I've seen black kids show up for tryouts, in their Iverson/Lebron/ Carmello jerseys, with dreadlocks and the beginnings of an "attitude," and watch them make the team even without showing any speed or having any size. I guess the white coaches just thought they "looked like" players. Right now, there is a black kid on our local high school team, who lives two doors down from me, that is a mediocre player, yet was named a starter on the team as a sophmore. Yes, mediocre white players often receive favoritsm as well, but this is almost always due to some connection that the player has (usually the father is a friend of the coach). The black players receive their favored treatment exclusively because of their skin color.

Then there is the matter of the favored treatment all black players-even at the youngest levels-receive ON the court. Simply speaking, they learn, very early on, that they can play as "aggressively" as they want, with little fear of fouling out or being called for traveling, palming, etc. White kids, even the best players, are called for fouls and rule violations far more often. This results in making the black kids a lot more confident, and even the most talented white players a little tenative, especially on defense.

Just as in football, the vast majority of youths playing organized basketball in this country are white. Unless you believe that blacks are inherently superior at the game, then there is no honest way that the vast majority of college players in the biggest basketball programs could be black, or the overwhelming majority of NBA players be black. It just isn't mathematically possible, without either some clear racial superiority or a whole lot of "help" from someone. There is also no honest way that Europe could produce more NBA basketball players than white America, just as there is no honest way that the tiny island of Samoa could produce more defensive starters in the NFL or the Dominican Republic could produce more Major League Baseball players than all of white America can.

Simply put; the rules have gradually been subverted over the past four decades, to cater to the "street" style of basketball that has always been popular among blacks. Combined with a strong Affirmative Action-style agenda when selecting players, from youth select leagues to NBA rosters, it's no wonder that white Americans are so scare in professional basketball.

 

[Don Wassall]

Nevada, you and your troll-like ways never fail to amaze. You think no one in most white-dominated sports qualifies as an "athlete" and you believe there is no Caste System in basketball. Besides what bigunreal wrote, consider the same arguments that hold true in football -- suburban high schools generally more than hold their own when playing urban schools in hoops. The suburbs and countryside produce just as many white stars as do the cities, yet who gets recruited into the major college programs?White basketballplayers are described with the exact same pejoratives as white football players are. The media routinely stereotypes them no matter how obviously athletic they are (witness all the crap written about Kevin Love before the NBA Draft).


If you don't believe there's a Caste System holding back whites in football, basketball and sprinting,then you're an opponent of this site and believe the reigning myth of black athletic superiority. If you think whites don't even qualify as athletes in the sports they dominate, then why are you here? If you have any pro-white sentiment it is very well hidden.

 

[Bart]

Still think I'm a troll Bart?

For whatever reasons, I think you carry water for blacks.I will tell you my thoughts on the matter. Many trolls/antis come to this site and layouttheir positionsin broad daylight, smacking us upside the head. We engage them in verbal fisticuffs until they get banned. Some will return to do a little sniping then retreat once more. We recognize them immediately, because they challenge us boldly, and aggressively on all fronts.


The smarter ones realize the need to be more subtle. The best way to make inroads is to become one of the gang. So, they play the game, posting lots of stuff, pushing the right buttons. After a period of time, they begin injecting more and more propaganda into their posts. Now, they can fly under the radar, praise blacks to high heaven, and openly cheer for the brothers over whites.


This is the way I see it, not going to beat around the bush, or blow smoke up anybody's nose. People know where I stand on issues. I play the same riffs, and sing the same songs repeatedly. I don't claim infallibility, but "I calls em like I sees em." Some might disagree with me vociferously, and that's okay with me.


Your recent post in the boxing forum is just one example. It could have been written by any media Caste hack.


A confession regarding Deonte Wilder


[url]http://www.castefootball.us/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8400&a mp;PN=1[/url]

 

[jaxvid]

Funny I just responded to his post in the boxing forum along similar lines, I don't think TJR is a troll though. He's just a young white guy, he hasn't seen enough of blacks and lived through many wearying years of racial BS yet. He'll get there, it just takes time in many cases. But any white guy with common sense wakes up eventually. It's late in the game though. Soon a black president, a failed economy and South Africa writ large in the US. What's real estate like in Montana?

 

[Guest]

Nevada, you and your troll-like ways never fail
to amaze. You think no one in most white-dominated sports
qualifies as an "athlete" and you believe there is no Caste System in
basketball. Besides what bigunreal wrote, consider the same
arguments that hold true in football -- suburban high schools generally
more than hold their own when playing urban schools in hoops. The
suburbs and countryside produce just as many white stars as do the
cities, yet who gets recruited into the major college
programs?White basketballplayers are described with
the exact same pejoratives as white football players are. The
media routinely stereotypes them no matter how obviously athletic they
are (witness all the crap written about Kevin Love before the NBA
Draft).


If you don't believe there's a Caste System holding back whites in
football, basketball and sprinting,then you're an opponent of
this site and believe the reigning myth of black athletic
superiority. If you think whites don't even qualify as athletes
in the sports they dominate, then why are you here? If you have
any pro-white sentiment it is very well hidden.

could you explain how there is caste system in sprinting? to me, track
and field is too simple for there to be such a system. you can't hide
somone times or results. if they run the times, they make the meets. if
they run faster, they win. what am i missing?

 

[jaxvid]

could you explain how there is caste system in sprinting? to me, track
and field is too simple for there to be such a system. you can't hide
somone times or results. if they run the times, they make the meets. if
they run faster, they win. what am i missing?

Slotting. White kids are put in the longer distances, black kids are put in the shorter distances. Happens at a young age where it's easy to convince kids and parents that it's the best way. Keeps on happening all the way up.

 

[Guest]

could you explain how there is caste system in sprinting? to me, track

and field is too simple for there to be such a system. you can't hide

somone times or results. if they run the times, they make the meets. if

they run faster, they win. what am i missing?

Slotting. White kids are put in the longer distances, black kids
are put in the shorter distances. Happens at a young age where it's
easy to convince kids and parents that it's the best way. Keeps on
happening all the way up.

i don't know about that one. most of the kids who run distance also run
cross country. track is one of if not the largest participant
sport among high schools in america. i've never met a track coach (who
knew what he was doing) take a kid that clearly has legit potential as
a sprinter and make him run distance. i can't say that i've met
any distance runners who've said that they wanted to be sprinters but
they weren't allowed to. and what about places where there aren't
many black people. i didn't grow up around a lot of blacks, but the
track teams in the area definitely had sprint squads. track is one of
if not the largest participant sports among US high schools. white
people dominate the population and dominate the spots on most track
teams throughout the country.

 

[celticdb15]

"i didn't grow up around a lot of blacks, but the track teams in the area definitely had sprint squads. track is one of if not the largest participant sports among US high schools. white people dominate the population and dominate the spots on most track teams throughout the country."


That right there is why we should have more elite white sprinters. I do not know what you are trying to argue? If so many whites compete at the high school level why are there less in the college ranks and even less in the pro ranks? You cannot tell me that whites who compete in high school are just not on the same level as blacks.






Edited by: celticdb15

 

[Bart]

Idon't think TJR is a troll though. He's just a young white guy, he hasn't seen enough of blacks and lived through many wearying years of racial BS yet. He'll get there, it just takes time in many cases.

I suppose you could be right. I'm just getting frustrated, and cranky, as this country morphs into Haiti.

 

[Guest]

"i didn't grow up around a lot of blacks, but the track teams in the
area definitely had sprint squads. track is one of if not the largest
participant sports among US high schools. white people dominate the population and dominate the spots on most track teams throughout the country."


That right there is why we should have more elite white sprinters. I
do not know what you are trying to argue? If so many whites compete at
the high school level why are there less in the college ranks and even
less in the pro ranks? You cannot tell me that whites who compete in
high school are just not on the same level as blacks.

recruiting in track is simple. if you run the times, consistently, you
get recruited. that's it. there isn't much room for subjectivity. some
coaches might give advantages to athletes who only run outdoor track
and do other sports for the other seasons over another athlete who does
indoor and outdoor track (maybe cross country). the athlete who just
does outdoor MIGHT get the nod because it's less likely that he's been
overworked.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

recruiting in track is simple. if you run the times, consistently, you
get recruited. that's it. there isn't much room for subjectivity. some
coaches might give advantages to athletes who only run outdoor track
and do other sports for the other seasons over another athlete who does
indoor and outdoor track (maybe cross country). the athlete who just
does outdoor MIGHT get the nod because it's less likely that he's been
overworked.

if that were true, then life would be fair and this site wouldn't exist. however, that simply isn't true.

just for one poignant example, please check out the case of unheralded American Andrew Rock. he was, at one time, the second fastest 400 meter runner in the world behind Jeremy Wariner. he won a silver medal at the World Championships, as well.

why is he important? he didn't get a single Division I scholarship offer. in fact, he ran track in Division III. interesting, no?

 

[Guest]

recruiting in track is simple. if you run the times, consistently, you

get recruited. that's it. there isn't much room for subjectivity. some

coaches might give advantages to athletes who only run outdoor track

and do other sports for the other seasons over another athlete who does

indoor and outdoor track (maybe cross country). the athlete who just

does outdoor MIGHT get the nod because it's less likely that he's been

overworked.

if that were true, then life would be fair and this site wouldn't exist. however, that simply isn't true.



just for one poignant example, please check out the case of
unheralded American Andrew Rock. he was, at one time, the second
fastest 400 meter runner in the world behind Jeremy Wariner. he won a
silver medal at the World Championships, as well.



why is he important? he didn't get a single Division I scholarship
offer. in fact, he ran track in Division III. interesting, no?

oh i know lots about andrew rock...maybe even more than you. did you
know that rock wasn't even a 400 runner in high school? his primary
event was the 300 hurdles, and he was pretty damn good at them too, i
think he was wisconsin's division III state record holder at 37.5. but
check this out. at a major track school like florida state, to be
considered for a scholarship you have to run 37 flat. you can
definitely walk on with a time that rock had but that's not a
scholarship. i bet rock could've gotten a scholarship to a lesser
division I school, but that may not have done any good. unless that
school has some serious track coaching, you might not really improve.
instead, rock went to DIII powerhouse Wisconsin LaCrosse where he was
allowed to change events at his discretion, got plenty of attention and
excellent coaching. in fact his coach at UW Lax, is now a coach at the
UW Madison (Division I). Had Andrew Rock gotten a scholarship for
track, it would've been for the intermediate hurdles, and there's no
way of knowing that his story would've turned as good as it actually
has.

 

[Thrashen]

"Soon a black president, a failed economy and South Africa writ large in the US. What's real estate like in Montana?"


South Africa is the most violent place on this planet. A woman (or child) is raped there every 20 seconds. Hundreds of murders each day, most of which the crooked police never solve.

Whites only live in heavily-guarded, gated communities. If not, their homes will be broken into and they will be tortured, raped and killed. White farmers have all had their farms taken (after being tortured to death, naturally) by their "fellow citizens." I guess the elite white f*ck-heads decided to trade their people for money...America drifts ever closer.


As far as TJR being a troll, I've noticed things too. I dont think he's a troll, just a liberal poster with lots of dedication and good ideas against the caste system. However, one thing I know he doesnt share is HATRED for the caste system. I think its ok that he's never violent or angry...it's a nice contrast sometimes.

I've been reading his posts for a long time, no troll would go to this amount of trouble, trust me.

 

[guest301]

He's just as much a troll as I am. But wait, I know my reasonings for being here has been called into question by a few here. But like Thrashen posted above, no troll would go through this much trouble. I think having some moderates here that post frequently serves as a nice balance to the more extreme posters at this site. TJR is great for this site and although I don't agree with all of his moderate(not liberal) viewpoints, Caste Football would miss his posts if he ever left. The dude is writing a book on the caste system and he is doing tons of research, how many of us here would take the time or even have the talent to put out a book on the Caste system. He's one of us even if he tends to be more conflicted on his viewpoints than some here.Edited by: guest301

 

[Don Wassall]

He's just as much a troll as I am. But wait, I know my reasonings for being here has been called into question by a few here. But like Thrashen posted above, no troll would go through this much trouble. I think having some moderates here that post frequently serves as a nice balance to the more extreme posters at this site. TJR is great for this site and although I don't agree with all of his moderate(not liberal) viewpoints, Caste Football would miss his posts if he ever left. The dude is writing a book on the caste system and he is doing tons of research, how many of us here would take the time or even have the talent to put out a book on the Caste system. He's one of us even if he tends to be more conflicted on his viewpoints than some here.

I agree with your sentiments. ButTJR engages inexcessive moralizing. We're here to discuss the Caste System and how to end it.Insisting that others see racial relations or any other issue not directly related to the Caste System inanidenticalway has the same result as flaming. I'm much more interested in seeing this board be civil and harmonious than in constantly judging how "moderate" everyone is or isn't.


As it is we have a pretty good balance, which is a strength not a weakness. ("Diversity is our strength" lol) I have always intentionally kept this site separate from what I do politically knowing that it was going to be widely divergent when it came to political views. I don't insist that anyone agree with me on politics, and no one else should either. It would help me a lot if posters here subscribed to The Nationalist Times and bought books from Northern Voice Bookstore, as this site generates very close to zero revenue. But I don't push it because I know it would be counterproductive. We are strong-minded individuals, convince us by your actions (your output), not by telling us what to think.Edited by: Don Wassall

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

oh i know lots about andrew rock...maybe even more than you. did you know that rock wasn't even a 400 runner in high school? his primary event was the 300 hurdles, and he was pretty damn good at them too, i think he was wisconsin's division III state record holder at 37.5. but check this out. at a major track school like florida state, to be considered for a scholarship you have to run 37 flat.  you can definitely walk on with a time that rock had but that's not a scholarship. i bet rock could've gotten a scholarship to a lesser division I school, but that may not have done any good. unless that school has some serious track coaching, you might not really improve. instead, rock went to DIII powerhouse Wisconsin LaCrosse where he was allowed to change events at his discretion, got plenty of attention and excellent coaching. in fact his coach at UW Lax, is now a coach at the UW Madison (Division I). Had Andrew Rock gotten a scholarship for track, it would've been for the intermediate hurdles, and there's no way of knowing that his story would've turned as good as it actually
has.

ypac, you just made my point for me. by your own admission, Rock had to go to a lower level school to get the opportunity his raw talent deserved.

somehow, though, you claim his going to Division III UW Lax allowed him access to better coaches who were more adept at developing his talent than the (more recognized and certainly more well-paid, i'd suspect) track coaches at more prestigious universities.

wouldn't you agree that this is a problem? i can't explain it any more clearer than that. a talented white athlete had to go to a small school to get an opportunity, plain and simple.

fortunately for Rock who participates in an individual sporting event, his times on the track couldn't be ignored once he decided to turn pro. however, in football performances by white athletes at lower levels of college ball count for exactly nothing (see Danny Woodhead as a vivid recent example), even if they are physically equal or superior to their more high-profile collegiate peers. and, as a result, they end up being ignored or rudely discarded by the NFL.