NFL Week 14 2008

speedster · Dec 8, 2008

I blame the injury to Kevin Curtis on Donovan McNabb.Curtis had ripped passed his man two plays earlier all Donny had to do was loft it in their and were looking at a possible TD but Donny threw it short and it goes incomplete and shortly thereafter Curtis goes down.Throw in a couple of Donny's one-hoppers that he tosses every game and here you have a guy who has had accuracy issues his whole career.

Bear Backer · Dec 8, 2008

speedster said:
I blame the injury to Kevin Curtis on Donovan McNabb.Curtis had ripped passed his man two plays earlier all Donny had to do was loft it in their and were looking at a possible TD but Donny threw it short and it goes incomplete and shortly thereafter Curtis goes down.Throw in a couple of Donny's one-hoppers that he tosses every game and here you have a guy who has had accuracy issues his whole career.

Right on about McNabb. He has never been an elite QB despite the fact that they like to paint him as one. In fact it is my belief that if he were white, he would have long ago been lambasted like some of the typical white journeymen QB's in league (Pennington, Garcia, Griese, Kitna, Bulger etc etc) as having flaws in his game that keep him from being a top QB. He would probably be on about his 2nd or 3rd team by now and would have to earn his job (especially his injury history) if he wanted to be a starter instead of being annointed in Philadelphia. Edited by: Bear Backer

ToughJ.Riggins · Dec 8, 2008

White Shogun said:
ToughJ.Riggins said:

He was foolish for trying that hard to make that much of a circus catch with a defender coming right at him. I actually didn't see the play, but it doesn't appear to be a dirty hit from the talk of it.

Click to expand...

If you haven't seen the play, how do you know he was foolish for him to try to make the catch or that it was or wasn't a bad hit?

And you know, trying to make those types of plays is what separates white players from most of the rest of the NFL. At least he doesn't have alligator arms and takes a fall without the ball just to avoid a hit.

It's just from what I heard. I read an article about the injury. Also Don Wassall and another poster seemed to indicate the same thing about it (ie. that he leaped up for a circus catch getting it with one hand with a defender bumping his leg from behind).

The catch appeared to be for 13 yards though so it was an important one to try to catch. However, he probably knew he was going to get hit on the play real well from behind while in the air and most black RBs wouldn't have made the same effort to catch it. Peyton knew he had to play like an absolute stud to get respect, but he ended up hurting himself and maybe costing himself his chance to be Denver's RB for the next decade with the way he was beginning to play. He needed to stay healthy longer to truly get respect from the caste media.

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

Fightingtowin · Dec 8, 2008

Bear Backer said:
speedster said:

I blame the injury to Kevin Curtis on Donovan McNabb.Curtis had ripped passed his man two plays earlier all Donny had to do was loft it in their and were looking at a possible TD but Donny threw it short and it goes incomplete and shortly thereafter Curtis goes down.Throw in a couple of Donny's one-hoppers that he tosses every game and here you have a guy who has had accuracy issues his whole career.

Click to expand...

Right on about McNabb. He has never been an elite QB despite the fact that they like to paint him as one. In fact it is my belief that if he were white, he would have long ago been lambasted like some of the typical white journeymen QB's in league (Pennington, Garcia, Griese, Kitna, Bulger etc etc) as having flaws in his game that keep him from being a top QB. He would probably be on about his 2nd or 3rd team by now and would have to earn his job (especially his injury history) if he wanted to be a starter instead of being annointed in Philadelphia.

Garcia is a great comparison; he's very underrated. However, no way are those other quarterbacks in McNabb's league. I don't understand the hatred for McNabb. Anytime I hear his name get brought up he gets trashed. This guy--when not injured--has consistently put up Pro-Bowl numbers with horrible receivers, has the 3rd best td/int ratio in the history of football (as of last year I believe), led his team to 4 NFC championship games and had one of the better Super Bowls ever for a quarterback. He threw for 353 yards and 3 touchdowns, yet because of how he is portrayed, most people think he had about 180 yards and 1 touchdown. He's one of the very few areas I think a lot of the people on here have wrong. And unlike Vick, Young, Kordell, Jackson and other overrated running quarterbacks, he runs opportunistically. If you want to say he's overrated because he gets hurt a lot, that is 100% fair. Just some food for thought.

Also, here's a list of his top two WRs each year. Besides Owens and Curtis, it's pretty awful.

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2007 Kevin Curtis
Reggie brown

2006 Reggie Brown
Donte Stallworth

2005 L.J.
Smith Reggie Brown

2004 Terrell
Owens Todd Skinkston

2003 Todd Pinkston
James Thrash

2002 Todd Pinkston
James Thrash

2001 James
Thrash Todd Pinkston

2000 Torrance
Small Charles Johnson

Edited by: Fightingtowin

PhillyBirds · Dec 8, 2008

As a lifelong Philadelphia Eagles fan, I have at times been absolutely astounded by Donovan McNabb. Especially in his younger years, he was a tremendous athlete with good pocket presence and a great arm. His decision making was allways so-so.

But McNabb has consistently come up small in high pressure situations. You mention his Super Bowl XXXIX performance:

Donovan McNabb: 30-51 357yds 3TD 3INT
QB RATING: 75.4

Throwing three untimely interceptions ultimately crippled the Eagles. It wasn't all Donovan's fault the Eagles lost, but those picks certainly were an issue. From the same game?

Tom Brady: 23-33 236yds 2TD 0INT
QB RATING: 110.2

More efficiency, less mistakes. Less yards, yes, but less pressure put on the defense with costly turnovers.

SOURCE

McNabb has done great things in the regular seasons, but he has still not brought to Philadelphia the ultimate goal of all NFL teams: a Lombardi Trophy.

McNabb was drafted high, to be the star of a team, regardless of the quality of the talent around him. If you want a quarterback to work on a team with established talent, you draft lower.

I don't seem to remember anyone excelling in Blatimore last year. They draft Flacco high, with no real offensive personnell changes, and they're a playoff team.

Edited by: PhillyBirds

Don Wassall · Dec 8, 2008

Fightingtowin said:
Bear Backer said:

speedster said:

I blame the injury to Kevin Curtis on Donovan McNabb.Curtis had ripped passed his man two plays earlier all Donny had to do was loft it in their and were looking at a possible TD but Donny threw it short and it goes incomplete and shortly thereafter Curtis goes down.Throw in a couple of Donny's one-hoppers that he tosses every game and here you have a guy who has had accuracy issues his whole career.

Click to expand...

Right on about McNabb. He has never been an elite QB despite the fact that they like to paint him as one. In fact it is my belief that if he were white, he would have long ago been lambasted like some of the typical white journeymen QB's in league (Pennington, Garcia, Griese, Kitna, Bulger etc etc) as having flaws in his game that keep him from being a top QB. He would probably be on about his 2nd or 3rd team by now and would have to earn his job (especially his injury history) if he wanted to be a starter instead of being annointed in Philadelphia.

Click to expand...

Garcia is a great comparison; he's very underrated. However, no way are those other quarterbacks in McNabb's league. I don't understand the hatred for McNabb. Anytime I hear his name get brought up he gets trashed. This guy--when not injured--has consistently put up Pro-Bowl numbers with horrible receivers, has the 3rd best td/int ratio in the history of football (as of last year I believe), led his team to 4 NFC championship games and had one of the better Super Bowls ever for a quarterback. He threw for 353 yards and 3 touchdowns, yet because of how he is portrayed, most people think he had about 180 yards and 1 touchdown. He's one of the very few areas I think a lot of the people on here have wrong. And unlike Vick, Young, Kordell, Jackson and other overrated running quarterbacks, he runs opportunistically. If you want to say he's overrated because he gets hurt a lot, that is 100% fair. Just some food for thought.

Also, here's a list of his top two WRs each year. Besides Owens and Curtis, it's pretty awful.

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2007 Kevin Curtis Reggie brown
2006 Reggie Brown Donte Stallworth
2005 L.J. Smith Reggie Brown
2004 Terrell Owens Todd Skinkston
2003 Todd Pinkston James Thrash
2002 Todd Pinkston James Thrash
2001 James Thrash Todd Pinkston
2000 Torrance Small Charles Johnson

You make some valid points. I think many posters here have given McNabb credit as being the exception to the rule that the Great Black Quarterback Experiment has been a flop, but also agree with Rush Limbaugh that the media has gone out of its way to praise his positives and ignore his negatives.

Anyway, there aresome real turds on that WR list. The Steelers drafted Charles Johnson in the first round in '94. He was not very good and was slow as molasses but season after season he was kept on as a starter until finally going to the Eagles.

Todd Pinkston excelled at alligator arms. And James Thrash -- incredibly, even for the NFL, Thrash is still somehow on an NFL roster.

Fightingtowin · Dec 8, 2008

PhillyBirds said:
As a lifelong Philadelphia Eagles fan, I have at times been absolutely astounded by Donovan McNabb. Especially in his younger years, he was a tremendous athlete with good pocket presence and a great arm. His decision making was allways so-so.
</span>

But McNabb has consistently come up small in high pressure situations. You mention his Super Bowl XXXIX performance:

Donovan McNabb: 30-51 357yds 3TD 3INT

QB RATING: 75.4

Throwing three untimely interceptions</span> ultimately crippled the Eagles. It wasn't all Donovan's fault the Eagles lost, but those picks certainly were an issue. From the same game?

"His decision making was always so-so" That's what really confuses me. How does a guy, who has an unbelievable td/int ratio have "so-so" decision making? And wasn't the last int. a hail mary? He's far from being a Manning or Brady, but I think people love to bash him because he comes of as a "corporate" nice guy and Phily fans probably critisize their own players more than anyone. If I remember, Phily fans hated the greatest 3rd baseman of all time, Mike Schmidt. Then they hated his successor, perennial all star 3rd baseman Scott Rolen, because he wasn't Mike Schmidt.

I think even the Gov. and President of the NAACP came out against McNabb. Phily fans love fighters, like AI and Barkley (even if they're thugs), but I believe naturally despise people like McNabb. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.
Edited by: Fightingtowin

PhillyBirds · Dec 8, 2008

Never, anywhere, did I say that I despised the man. He's a terrific football player, and I thought I made it clear that I see his talent.

Grouping all Philadelphia fans into one stereotypical group is what the media does to portray us as villains. If I can be so bold, I think that the majority of Philadelphia fans likes someone who is professional, doesn't mouth off, and does their job to the best of their ability. Yes, the drunken contingent of fans can be harsh, but they are hardly representative of the city at-large.

Donovan has always done some things that people did not like. His constant smile, even after throwing interceptions. He complained about the pressure on black quarterbacks. He complained when his future replacement was drafted. I'll make this clear again: I appreciate his play 80% of the time. He just does some things that irk me, and most people.

Thugs don't fly here (again, I'm grouping people together). Terrell Owens was a thug, and he's about as bug of a pariah as you would find anywhere.

Sorry if I seemed rude, though. It's been a long day for me.
Edited by: PhillyBirds

PhillyBirds · Dec 9, 2008

Chris Hovan left the Monday night game with a knee injury. He did not return.

Fightingtowin · Dec 9, 2008

PhillyBirds said:
Sorry if I seemed rude, though. It's been a long day for me.

It's cool. I stereotyped Philadelphia fans and have never even been there and probably only seen 1/4
as many Eagles' games as you. I didn't think you were rude. I have a slightly greater interest in McNabb than most players because I kind of adopted the Eagles as my favorite
NFL team when I was in high school because I'm from Michigan where we
don't have a pro team. The caste system had not even crossed my mind back then.

PhillyBirds · Dec 9, 2008

At any rate, welcome to Caste Football, Fightingtowin.

GWTJ · Dec 9, 2008

McNabb has one major flaw, in my opinion. This flaw is what keeps him from being a truly great QB. He is capable of having great games and carrying the team on his back. But, he has always been inconsistent. He will have three good games, then one or two bad ones.

I have seen McNabb look great one game then be unable to make a ten yard completion the next. It is the same problem Eli Manning had to overcome.

No matter how good or not so good a QB is, he has to be consistent so the coaches can game plan based on his abilities. That's why average but consistent QB's can win games. The league is full of competent QB's that just do their job every week without ever being great. A solid D, good O-line and good special teams will get you to the playoffs more often than a great QB on a weak team. It can and has won Super Bowls as well.

The Redskins of the 1980's won three Super Bowls with three different QB's. Only Theismann was considered an elite QB. More recently we have Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Jeff Hostetler all winning Super Bowls with pedestrian, but consistent play. Of course they all played on teams that had great defenses and great O-lines.

Anyway, that's my issue with McNabb. That, and the media ignoring his bad games and putting the blame elsewhere.

NFL Week 14 2008

speedster

Mentor

Bear Backer

Mentor

ToughJ.Riggins

Hall of Famer

Fightingtowin

Guru

PhillyBirds

Mentor

Don Wassall

Administrator

Fightingtowin

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PhillyBirds

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PhillyBirds

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Fightingtowin

Guru

PhillyBirds

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GWTJ

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