Memory Lane

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,460
Location
Pennsylvania
This is a thread designed to remember and pay respect to white football players of the past which I hope others will participate in on a recurring basis. Many white pro and college players are now forgotten, even many that played in the '80s and '90s. It's important for Caste Football to recognize and pay our respects to them, because if we don't who will?

I'll start off with wide receiver Steve Watson, who played for the Broncos. Steve Largent and Chris Collinsworth were the last two superstar white receivers. Their careers ended in the late '80s, and after they did it wasn't until Ed McCaffrey and Wayne Chrebet in 1998 that a white receiver broke the 1,000 yard mark in receiving yards.

Watson played at the time of Largent and Collinsworth and was almost as good, in fact he was just as good for a few years. But he had a short career, playing from '79 to '87. His first two years he had only 6 receptions each year, and his last year was injury shortened, so his career was basically only from '81 through '86.

His best year was 1981 -- 60/1244/13. His 13 TDs tied for the league lead, his yardage was third, and his average per catch was first at 20.7. He also had big years in '83 (59/1133/5), '84 (69/1170/7) and '85 (69/915/5). He finished his career with a 17.3 yards per catch average.

John Elway threw to him starting in 1983. If you're old enough to remember the NFL of that time, Watson was renowned for his circus catches of downfield passes and for long touchdown receptions. He was the NFL's premier big play receiver during his heyday, but is now forgotten, so he seemed like a good player to start off with.
 

white lightning

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
21,463
I only got to see some of his games but he was a amazing
receiver. Why is it that most people wouldn't even know
who he is.Look at the numbers that Watson put up.They
are amazing.Many guys have short careers but are still
talked about to this day.Steve deserves alot of respect
and I can't think of a better guy to start off this
blast from the past.
 

sunshine

Mentor
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
841
I remember Steve Watson but cannot recall anythingtooparticular which surprises me since I usually recall details.. Thanks for jarring my memory. Anyone remember Roger Carr from the then Baltimore Colts. He was a deep threat for Bert Jones but his career was cut short a bit. This was when back in the 70's? I remember reading he was a baseball prospect at one time.Had a huge yards per receiving average. Home run threat.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,460
Location
Pennsylvania
Carr was mentioned in the NFL thread entitled "Research Help":

By me: "Since the AFL-NFL merger, three times has a white receiver been the league leader in receiving yardage. Steve Largent led in 1985 (1,287 yards) and 1979 (1,237). He fell one yard short in '78.

"The other one was Roger Carr, who I knew had an incredible season in '76, but didn't know he had led the league with 1,112 yards. What makes that feat incredible is that he did it with only 43 receptions for the season -- 25.8 yards per catch!

"Carr had great speed but was one of those flaky '70s white athletes who didn't always play with great intensity or motivation, attributable to the drug-laden "counterculture" that afflicted white culture at the time and which was in great part responsible for the takeover of the country by Cultural Marxists."

By Sport Historian: "Speaking of Roger Carr, I remember reading that he was so frightened of Howard Schnellenberger, Colt coach in Carr's rookie year, that he almost quit. Another time I read an interview with Carr were he told how cornerbacks would ride him hard for being white and would play him too close because they didn't think he was fast, at first. They did learn to give him a lot of cushion."

We've mentioned him other times, too. He was a special talent physically but he was too eccentric to become one of the all-time best.
 

white lightning

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
21,463
How about Dwight Clark of the 49ers.He will always be known for The Catch in the playoffs to win the game.
He showed some great jumping ability.In 1981,Clark lead
the NFL with 85 catches for 1105 yards!He then repeated
the feat in 1982 with 60 catches for 913 yards.Those are
pretty good numbers and Montana loved to throw to him.
 

white lightning

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
21,463
I have to start a thread about one of the best white running backs of all time.Mark Van Eeghen led the Raiders
to two superbowls in 1977 and 1981.In 78 he led the NFL
in rushing with a whopping 1273 yards!Mark was selected
to the Pro Bowl and also was named the Raiders MVP.Van
Eeghen became the first Raider to have 3 straight 1000
yard seasons.If that isn't consistancy then I don't know
what is.He was the one of the last whites allowed to run
the ball.Mark joined his hometown Patriots and in 1982
was named the Pats MVP.Van Eeghen was the all time Raider rushing leader with 5907 yards until 1978.He still
is considered to be one of the greatest Raiders ever.We all know that if he came out of college these days,he
wouldn't even get a chance to play in the league.Just the
same way that they treated Luke Staley.I think Mark Van
Eeghen scared them because even in modern times,he could
run with the best of them!
 

sunshine

Mentor
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
841
Carr I believe was a baseballcatching prospect at LouisianaTech--may have wrong college. He slipped through the cracks. Like Carr,maybe the loosy goosy way is to go in some cases. Don Maynard was a bit flaky as wellas I recall. In otherwords play loose and run without worrying about this and that. Let it fly.Too many white guys run as if there are corks up their rear ends. Get back to the days when you just rannaturally. Like Lance Alworth. Was that guy good or what!!!As mentioned in the sprinting section being relaxed is half the battle.
 

speedster

Mentor
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
704
I totally agree with Mark Van Eeghen.He played a pivotal role in the Raiders success in that era and still ranks 50th in all-time rushing yardage.Since Van Eeghen has already been talked about,I'll go with Lance Rentzel.He may not have recieved the pub when he played with the Cows,partly because he played opposite Bob Hayes,but he was a player.He had one 1000 yard recieving season and missed out on two othersby mere yardage,and could really get down field as he had a very high per catch average,one year averaging more than 20 yards a pop.He got involved with actress Joey Heatherington and got into some legal problems and I think that was his downfall.He finished up his career with the Rams where he was still viable.One more forgotten white warrior I'd like to mention is wideout Bobby Chandler of the Buffalo Bills.For three straight years between 75 and 77 he was in the top five in receptions and played a big role in helping his new team the Raiders win the Superbowl in 1980 along with the afore mentioned Mark Van Eeghen.Oakland had some good quality white players in that time frame
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,460
Location
Pennsylvania
Some good names. Bobby Chandler, I had totally forgotten him.

Speaking of VanEeghen, remember Marv Hubbard, who was the Raiders main running back before VanEeghen? He had 1,100 yards rushing in '72 and over 800 yards three other times.

Both VanEeghen and Hubbard ran for head coach John Madden. Wonder what Madden would say now if asked about the extinction of white running backs. . .
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,986
I remember in the 70's, it would be said that the Raiders did things differently. They had a left-handed quarterback (Stabler) and the halfback blocked for the fullback. I don't remember any special mention about Hubbard and Van Eeghen being white.


When O.J. Simpson played in the 1974 Pro Bowl, Madden and the Raider staff was coaching the AFC team. Simpson complained that it was a "fullback offense." This is from a quickie paperback book about O.J. by John Devaney.


Once, in the 70's, I saw an article about Bob Chandler in which Chandler complained about being overlooked for the Pro Bowl. Players with less catches routinely were picked over him.
 

IceSpeed

Guru
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Maine
I remember Ed McCaffrey making great catches in the 1998 superbowl season. Also, I remember</span>Fred Biletnikoff having a great game in the Super Bowl.</span>
 

IceSpeed

Guru
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Maine
He only had around 80 yards receiving, but I remember a very athletic catch he made in the game.
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Two of my favorite WR's when I was a kid were Jack Snow and Golden Richards. Partly because they had cool names.

Here are some pictures of those guys and the others you mentioned.

snow1.jpg

richards.jpg

watson.jpg

rentzel.jpg

RaidersMarvHubbardPlaque.jpg

fpvaneeghenm.jpg

Ed_Card.jpg

carr.jpg

BiletnikoffFred11.jpg
 

white lightning

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
21,463
What a blast from the past.As always,thanks for the great pictures. It's fun to remember some of these
guys and how good they were.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,986
The following is from a book by a well-known pro football star published in 1964. He lists the top four WR's (called flankers then) in the NFL circa 1963 while discussing a teammate:


"He has covered the league's best flankers one-on-one--such flankers as Tommy McDonald, Buddy Dial, Red Phillips, Sonny Randle. These are lightning-quick men."


It's worthy of note that the top four receivers in the NFL of 1963 were white. Guess who said the above? It was Jim Brown in the book Off My Chest with writer Myron Cope. In the book, Brown was discussing Bernie Parrish (a white corner on the Browns) with the late Ernie Davis. The point was how well Parrish covered swift pass receivers.
 

sunshine

Mentor
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
841
Very imfromative guys. There were a lot of speedy white receivers back in the day.I remember Jack Snowbut was very young. How about Carroll Dale of the Packers during their great run? He was their deep threat.
 

IceSpeed

Guru
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Maine
I don't know if anyone actually remembers this
player, but he is a great one. Its Chuck Bednarik. He looks at
the NFL fairly and unbiasedly. To show this, he said he liked
Donovan McNabb.

Here is an interview/chat room talk with him from http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.jsp?release_id =734:











Chuck Bednarikhttp://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?PLAYER_ID=22 was
a two-way star that played center/linebacker for the Philadelphia
Eagles from 1949-62. He was enshrined into the Hall in 1967. He played
58 minutes and made the game-saving tackle against Jim Taylor as the
Eagles beat the Packers, 17-13, in the 1960 NFL Championship Game.
Chuck was kind enough to join us for an online chat Friday afternoon.</span></span>



<div>
<table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="2" width="233">
<t>
<tr>
<td width="100%">
bednarik_091100.gif
</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td width="100%">
Chuck Bednarik
</td>
</tr>
</t>
</table>

<div ="">


Moderator: Chuck is here and we are ready to go! Send in your questions to the moderator NOW!
</div>



starling: Who had the biggest influence on your pro career?

Chuck Bednarik: I would think my first coach -- Earle "Greasy" Neale.
I was the first selection in 1949 and he chose me from the University
of Pennsylvania. I admired him so much. He introduced me into the Hall
of Fame, and two years later I introduced him when he was inducted. I'm
looking at a picture of him on my wall right now.</span>
</div>


<div ="">


aschlitt: What do you miss most about playing?

Chuck Bednarik: Time has gone by really .... so I can't really
say that I miss much anymore. I don't attend pro football games. It's
in Philadelphia and there's traffic there and I don't understand the
pro football players of today, who are overpaid. I go to Lehigh
University, which is 12 minutes from my home. The amount of money pro
football players make boggles my mind.
</div>


<div ="">


bearsfan: Were you the hardest hitter of your era? Who would compare with you then and now?

Chuck Bednarik: I would be bragging if I said that. There were a
number of hard hitters. In my opinion, **** Butkus was the finest
linebacker I ever saw...and then Ray Nitschke of the Green Bay Packers.
I would rate them ahead of me. But **** Butkus didn't play
offense...they played one-way and they were great...but they couldn't
play two-ways.
</div>


<div ="">


bearsfan: What's the fondest memory from your professional career?

Chuck Bednarik: The 1960 World Championship Game against the
Green Bay Packers at Franklin Field. We defeated them 17-13 and I was
fortunate enough to stop Jim Taylor at the nine-yard line on the last
play from scrimmage. I was on the championship team my rookie year and
then in 1960. That game without a doubt was the greatest game I ever
had.
</div>


<div>


jmroz: How much money did you make per season?</span>

Chuck Bednarik: In 1949, I was the
first draft choice in the NFL and there were 12 teams. I received a
bonus of $3,000 and a contract of $12,000. I bought a brand new house
for $14,500 and a brand new Pontiac for $2,200. Now you can understand
why I begrudge these guys -- they come out and hold for extra points
and make half a million dollars. The most I ever made was $27,000. The
reason is very simple -- there was no television...that's what created
it.</span>

<div ="">


bearsfan: Chuck, have you ever been approached by Kathie Lee with the request to take another shot at Frank Gifford?

Chuck Bednarik: At the college HOF a few years back,
all this interviewer talked about was the Frank Gifford tackle...and
kiddingly I said to him that I wished it was Kathie Lee on that shot
instead of Frank. Well, someone sent a copy to Frank and he sent me
something and said "Chuck, I hope this was just some reporter making
comments. It won't be forgotten." So I don't watch Kathie Lee too much
on television. But I can really say to you that Frank and I are
friends...I see him at the HOF. I say that if you're going to do
something big, do it in New York.</span>
</div>

<div ="">


aschlitt: Do you think playing both ways made you a better player because you had more insight into both offense and defense?

Chuck Bednarik:

Absolutely. I know besides myself, there could have been guys who went
both ways. There's no question I knew how to play, because in high
school, everyone played both ways. In college, everyone went both ways.
I graduated in 1948, and in 1952 the platoon system came in. But I knew
how to play both ways in high school and college, and I was in good
condition, and I was capable of doing what I did. Most of today's kids
are 6-5, 340....could you picture them sitting on the field going both
ways? They are dying now after going three or four plays. They are big,
but not better. There are good football players out there, though. I
never saw a 320-pound player in my career.I got a grandson who is
13-years old and is 175 pounds...how big is he gonna be? Remember the
name: Ryan Davis....you'll hear about him.
</div>
</div>


<div ="">


bearsfan: If you hadn't played football, what would you have done? And what would you have done with all that anger and aggression?

Chuck Bednarik: I always thought that being a football coach
would have been a great thing for me. I always wanted to be a coach and
a teacher. Well, I never had to do it because of my football career and
I was very lucky. Now I look back and think of being a coach and
teacher...that's a tough job. When I looked at Bobby Knight, I looked
at myself. There's no telling how many times I would have been fired
because of my temperament. I admire that guy, he did it like he thought
he should. That's all from upbringing, growing up on the streets, and
going to war and flying gave me the guts to go on the football field.
It's just the attitude. Hey, football is a contact sport ... you go out
there and knock the guy out...just like boxing...that's my philosophy.
</div>



MODERATOR: Well, that wraps up the chat! Thanks to Chuck for all the insight and thanks for the great questions!


Chuck Bednarik: See you later everyone...thanks for the questions...
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,460
Location
Pennsylvania
There are quite a few football fans who consider Bednarik as tough as anyone who's ever played in the NFL.

We probably all remember Don Maynard as one of the all-time great receivers. Not as well remembered was another receiver on the Jets during the time Maynard played who had a short but superb career. George Sauer only played from 1965-'70, but made the Pro Bowl four times. From '66-'68 he put up tremendous numbers, equivalent to the best put up now in this era of excessive short passes, inflated statistics and a longer schedule.

1966: 63/1079/17.1 average and 5 TDs
1967: 75/1189/15.9 average and 6 TDs
1968: 66/1141/17.3 average and 3 TDs

For those three seasons Sauer ranked second, first and second in the league in receptions; and fourth, second and third in receiving yards. And as you can tell by the relative lack of TDs, he wasn't even the Jets' big play threat, Maynard was, with even more spectacular numbers those years and many others.
 

speedster

Mentor
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
704
Most of the players mentioned here are offensive guys.So I'd like to go defence.The first player that needs some recognition is Cliff Harris.One of the hardest hitters of his era and together with Charlie Waters produced one of the best safety tandems in the mid to late 70's.Harris made 6 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pro's.He was named as the starting free-safety on the NFL's all-decade team of the 70's.It's an absolute crime that he has not been inducted into the Football Hall of Fame.He was a finalist last year,but did not get in,which had a lot of people up in arms.Hopefully Roger Wehrli can make up for that terrible error this year as he is a finalist as we speak.It would be great to see a fine white cornerback like Wehrli get in.Other CB's of note that I'd like to mention are Pat Fischer,who seemed to play forever and former Bengals coach **** Lebeau who was a multiple pro bowler.
 

IceSpeed

Guru
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Maine
How bout that old AFL. Nick Bonticonti. This little guy
could play football and win games. He played a critical
role in the 1972 Dolphins team.
 

speedster

Mentor
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
704
Chuck Bednarik is at it again.I just read a recent interview that he gave,and although most of what he said was the same as in the above post,he did offer a few new tidbits.He wants the Eagles to lose the Super Bowl because he wants the 1960 Philly team that he played on to be the last one to win a championship,and of course he's still bitter about that book deal that Mr Lauriea nixed.He hates the silly celebrations that are constant in the NFL after every play and the best was when he said that he does not like Terrell Owens and that he would like to wrap his jock strap around his mouth.
smiley36.gif
 

Gary

Mentor
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
1,050
There have been some great players-Mike Curtis,Billy Cannon,Tommy Nobis, John David Crow.Some great running backs Red Grange and Tom Harmon.I remember when linemen were well built not fat slobs all butt and gut like now-remember Bill Fralic,Jerry Sherk and Howie Long!Very good and very good shape.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,986
Have you ever seen a highlight film of Hugh McElhenny? I remember seeing him play on TV with the NY Giants in 1963at the end of his career. The announcers would say that he was the greatest halfback ever to play in the NFL.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,460
Location
Pennsylvania
I remember seeing old footage of McElhenny, and he looked unbelievably elusive, avoiding one would-be tackler after another. Of course, all the true believers in total black athletic supremacy would counter by saying that he was avoiding mostly white defenders, that no white running back could do that now. It's like that commercial from a couple of years back that starts off showing actors filmed in black and white portraying a 1950s basketball game, all white, short and flat-footed, and then cuts in full color to "now," showing a black player leaping from about center court and dunking. The message is none too subtle -- black athletes of today are vastly superior to white athletes of yesterday, just as the "multicultural" society of today is superior in every way to yesterday's white dominated one.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,986
Take a look at McElhenny's run against his former 49er teamates in 1961. He fakes out Abe Woodson and Jim Johnson (Rafer's brother and HOF).
 
Top