Memory Lane
- Thread starter Don Wassall
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Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
John David Crow was a running back from Springhill, LA. I have a book about North Louisiana football from the 40's through 1980 by Jerry Byrd, a legend in local sports. He said Crow was the best overall player he saw, both in high school and college. He was near the top of the list in the NFL. That includes the many black players he acknowledges and the likes of Terry Bradshaw, Joe Ferguson, a former team-mate of Bradshaw's at Woodlawn High, and many other top white players. John David Crow led the NFL in rushing in 1960 with 1,071 yards on 183 attempts, while also catching 25 passes for 462 yards. He played college ball at Texas A&M and was Junction Boy under Paul (Turncoat) Bryant. He was a four time pro-bowler. Just another one of the forgotten greats of the pre-caste NFL.
I have recently been checking out the site www.superbowl.com and was studying the starting lineups of the games from the 60's until the early 80's.Plenty of white guys,even a lot of the reserves are white.For those of you old enough to remember back then,it's a nice nostalgia trip.The good old days.
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Yes, John David Crowe was one of the top RBs of the late 50s and early sixties. However, some of your details are incorrect. Jim Brown led the NFL in 1960 with 1257 yards, with Jim Taylor second with 1101. Crow was third, throwing some TD option passes as well. Some people indeed thought that Crowe was the NFL's best running back that year. In a Sport magazine piece in early 1961, Sam Huffstated that John David Crowe was his best all-around opponent. I once heard Jim Brown praise John David's abilities while discussing players of his era on a radio show.
Unfortunately, Crow missed most of the 1961 season with a broken ankle, I believe, plus most of 1963 with another injury.He was traded to the 49ers in 1965 and had four more good seasons. Injury kept him from what looked likea NFL Hall Of Fame career in 1960.
Unfortunately, Crow missed most of the 1961 season with a broken ankle, I believe, plus most of 1963 with another injury.He was traded to the 49ers in 1965 and had four more good seasons. Injury kept him from what looked likea NFL Hall Of Fame career in 1960.
I remember a film about Crazy Legs Hirsh-also one called 'Harmon of Michigan'-does anyone know how I can get these films?Here are some great players you may have forgot-Lou Groza,Leo Nomellini,Alan Ameche,Doug Atkins,Ray Berry,Sam Huff,Art Donovan,Otto Graham,Bob Lilly,Forrest Gregg,Bobby Layne,Yale Lary,Jim Otto,Jim Ringo,Randy White,Larry Wilson,Bronko Nagurski,Ernie Stautner,John Hannah and Norm Van Brocklin.John David Crow won the Heisman Trophy in 1957. He was a very good running back and it's even more remarkable when you consider he had facial paralysis and had trouble closing his eye.
Any body remember Bobby Douglass? I read that Vick almost ran for a thousand yards but people forget Bobby nearly ran for a thousand. Vick is a jitterbug who eludes tacklers. Douglass was a strong powerful guy whodemolished defenders. He had a strong armwith zero accuracy. He was fun to watch, shoulda been a running back or linebacker, not a QB. They only played 14 games those days, he could easily have had 1000 yds in a sixteen game season.Interestingly his yards per attempt were nearly as good as Vicks with more TD's.
Douglass: 1972 Rushing attempts 141. Yds. gained 968 . TD's 8
Vick: 2004 Rushing attempts 120. Yds.gained 902. TD's 3
Douglass: 1972 Rushing attempts 141. Yds. gained 968 . TD's 8
Vick: 2004 Rushing attempts 120. Yds.gained 902. TD's 3
Bobby Douglas had such a strong arm and being a lefty he tried baseball after football. His accuracy with a baseball was pretty much the same as with a football.
Speaking of KU QBs, how about Nolan Cromwell? A world class hurdler in college and of course a DB in the pros.
Would he even get the shot at DB now?
Speaking of KU QBs, how about Nolan Cromwell? A world class hurdler in college and of course a DB in the pros.
Would he even get the shot at DB now?
Surfsider, Cromwell was a great athlete, who would not have a sno ball's chance in hell to play anywhere much less DB. I had forgotten he was once the NFC defensive player of the year . Snip:
Cromwell is generally regarded as one of the greatest all-around athletes in Kansas state history, where he was a national AAU junior champion in the decathlon, three-time state champion in track and field and earned all-state honors in both football and basketball during high school.
As an option quarterback at Kansas, Cromwell set an NCAA record by gaining 294 yards against Oregon State in 1975. Six games later he led the Jayhawks to a 23-3 upset win over Oklahoma to break the Sooners 28-game win streak.
In the NFL, Cromwell was named to the Pro Bowl on four occasions. He was the NFC Defensive Player of the Year in 1980 after leading the Rams to Super Bowl XIV.Cromwell is generally regarded as one of the greatest all-around athletes in Kansas state history, where he was a national AAU junior champion in the decathlon, three-time state champion in track and field and earned all-state honors in both football and basketball during high school.
As an option quarterback at Kansas, Cromwell set an NCAA record by gaining 294 yards against Oregon State in 1975. Six games later he led the Jayhawks to a 23-3 upset win over Oklahoma to break the Sooners 28-game win streak.
Cromwell is generally regarded as one of the greatest all-around athletes in Kansas state history, where he was a national AAU junior champion in the decathlon, three-time state champion in track and field and earned all-state honors in both football and basketball during high school.
As an option quarterback at Kansas, Cromwell set an NCAA record by gaining 294 yards against Oregon State in 1975. Six games later he led the Jayhawks to a 23-3 upset win over Oklahoma to break the Sooners 28-game win streak.
In the NFL, Cromwell was named to the Pro Bowl on four occasions. He was the NFC Defensive Player of the Year in 1980 after leading the Rams to Super Bowl XIV.Cromwell is generally regarded as one of the greatest all-around athletes in Kansas state history, where he was a national AAU junior champion in the decathlon, three-time state champion in track and field and earned all-state honors in both football and basketball during high school.
As an option quarterback at Kansas, Cromwell set an NCAA record by gaining 294 yards against Oregon State in 1975. Six games later he led the Jayhawks to a 23-3 upset win over Oklahoma to break the Sooners 28-game win streak.
Patrick Jeffers was mentioned by a couple of us inthe Tom Bradythread, so I decided to remember him here even though his short butunforgettable NFL career ended just a few years ago.
Jeffers was a late draft pick of the Broncos, languished on their bench before being traded to Dallas, and finally began to be "allowed" to play during 1998.
During the second half of '99 with the Carolina Panthers, Patrick Jeffersmay had the beststretch of games of anyreceiver in the history of the NFL. He had 8 TD catches in the final five games of that season, ALL OVER 30 YARDS IN LENGTH. Chew on that and remember it next time someone says only blacks are capable of big plays. He was a brilliant talent who is now almost completely forgotten. From Caste Football's Wide Receiver Archives on Jeffers (this actually should be read in reverse, the oldest items to the newest ones):
(8/13/03) I periodically do Google searches trying to find any info on Jeffers, particularly to see if there was any hope of him resuming his career. Today a story made the news â€â€- Jeffers has sued the Carolina Panthers and the surgeon who operated on him on August 20, 2000, alleging malpractice. The career of this potential all-time great is indeed over. Read the description below of his mostly unnoticed 1999 season to see what could have been. Here is the link to the article about the malpractice suit: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/08/13/je ffers_lawsuit_ap/
(9/1/02) Jeffers was released by the Panthers, an acknowledgement that his rehab, now going into its third year, is not going along well and the team didn't want to pay him anymore. What a sad, sad ending to what could have been if Jeffers' career is over.
(8/21/02) Few people, even those who follow the NFL closely, realize how brilliant Patrick Jeffers was in 1999. He had 63 receptions for 1,082 yards (his average of 17.2 yards per catch was third best in the league) and 12 TDs (tied for 2nd in the league), but what is most impressive is that he did it in little more than half a season, and especially toward the end of the season.
Jeffers didn't become a starter until the 7th game of the season in '99. Before that he had only six receptions. Here's what Jeffers did after becoming a starter:
▪ 11/7 vs. Philadelphia - 2 catches for 30 yards, including a 21-yard TD
▪ 11/14 vs. St. Louis - 3 catches for 43 yards
▪ 11/21 vs. Cleveland - 3 catches for 34 yards
▪ 11/28 vs. Atlanta - 3 catches for 31 yards and 1 TD
▪ 12/5 vs. St. Louis - 7 catches for 107 yards, and a 71-yard TD
▪ 12/12 vs. Green Bay - 8 catches for 147 yards and TDs of 35 and 38 yards
▪ 12/18 vs. San Francisco - 8 catches for 155 yards and a 55-yard TD
▪ 12/26 vs. Pittsburgh - 5 catches for 160 yards in the snow at Pittsburgh, including TDs of 88 and 43 yards
▪ 1/2 vs. New Orleans - 7 catches for 165 yards with TD catches of 40 and 32 yards
Jeffers ended the '99 season with five straight 100+ receiving games, only two shy of the record, and, most impressively, in those five games he had 8 touchdown catches, all over 30 yards. He continually beat defensive backs with his speed and graceful moves as he broke one big play after another. It is highly unlikely that any NFL receiver has ever had such an amazing stretch of productivity. If Jeffers had been a starter for the entire season instead of just the last nine games he might have broken the single season record for yardage and TDs.
Were Jeffers black he would have been made into a household name, ala Randy Moss. Jeffers outproduced Moss and every other receiver in the NFL for the last 2/3 of 1999, yet received little notoriety.
Jeffers is 6'3" 218 lbs. He went to college at Virginia, where he was, needless to say given his race, a walk-on. From that lowly start he ended up fourth on the school's all-time receiving charts. He was drafted by Denver in 1996, but warmed the bench until being traded to Dallas at the beginning of the 1998 season. Given a chance at the end of '98, Jeffers was very effective, catching 18 balls for 330 yards (18.3 yards per catch) with 2 TDs, including a dramatic 60-yarder from Troy Aikman during the nationally televised Thanksgiving game, following which the announcers said nothing about him other than his name. He was also Dallas' only effective offensive weapon in the team's subsequent playoff loss to Arizona.
However, following the '98 season, there was a large hue and cry that the Cowboys were in desperate need of a number two receiver behind the rapidly declining Michael Irvin. Although Aikman spoke highly of Jeffers and wanted the team to re-sign him, Patrick signed with Carolina as a restricted free agent. The Cowboys could have retained by matching Carolina's offer but declined to do so and Jeffers went on to his breakout '99 season.
It was four long years before this remarkable talent was finally given an opportunity, and he responded in an unforgettable way. Sadly, that brilliant '99 season may be the last memory his fans have of him, as Jeffers suffered a torn ACL in his right knee after running a meaningless two-yard route in an exhibition game in August 2000 and missed the entire '00 season. He has had two surgeries in one knee and one in the other since tearing his ACL. He was limited in '01 to just 14 catches and 127 yards. Various reports indicate he may not be able to play again in '02 and that he will retire or be released. It is a sad turn of events for a college walk-on and NFL benchwarmer who was unstoppable when given the chance to produce.
Edited by: Don Wassall
Jeffers was a late draft pick of the Broncos, languished on their bench before being traded to Dallas, and finally began to be "allowed" to play during 1998.
During the second half of '99 with the Carolina Panthers, Patrick Jeffersmay had the beststretch of games of anyreceiver in the history of the NFL. He had 8 TD catches in the final five games of that season, ALL OVER 30 YARDS IN LENGTH. Chew on that and remember it next time someone says only blacks are capable of big plays. He was a brilliant talent who is now almost completely forgotten. From Caste Football's Wide Receiver Archives on Jeffers (this actually should be read in reverse, the oldest items to the newest ones):
(8/13/03) I periodically do Google searches trying to find any info on Jeffers, particularly to see if there was any hope of him resuming his career. Today a story made the news â€â€- Jeffers has sued the Carolina Panthers and the surgeon who operated on him on August 20, 2000, alleging malpractice. The career of this potential all-time great is indeed over. Read the description below of his mostly unnoticed 1999 season to see what could have been. Here is the link to the article about the malpractice suit: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/08/13/je ffers_lawsuit_ap/
(9/1/02) Jeffers was released by the Panthers, an acknowledgement that his rehab, now going into its third year, is not going along well and the team didn't want to pay him anymore. What a sad, sad ending to what could have been if Jeffers' career is over.
(8/21/02) Few people, even those who follow the NFL closely, realize how brilliant Patrick Jeffers was in 1999. He had 63 receptions for 1,082 yards (his average of 17.2 yards per catch was third best in the league) and 12 TDs (tied for 2nd in the league), but what is most impressive is that he did it in little more than half a season, and especially toward the end of the season.
Jeffers didn't become a starter until the 7th game of the season in '99. Before that he had only six receptions. Here's what Jeffers did after becoming a starter:
▪ 11/7 vs. Philadelphia - 2 catches for 30 yards, including a 21-yard TD
▪ 11/14 vs. St. Louis - 3 catches for 43 yards
▪ 11/21 vs. Cleveland - 3 catches for 34 yards
▪ 11/28 vs. Atlanta - 3 catches for 31 yards and 1 TD
▪ 12/5 vs. St. Louis - 7 catches for 107 yards, and a 71-yard TD
▪ 12/12 vs. Green Bay - 8 catches for 147 yards and TDs of 35 and 38 yards
▪ 12/18 vs. San Francisco - 8 catches for 155 yards and a 55-yard TD
▪ 12/26 vs. Pittsburgh - 5 catches for 160 yards in the snow at Pittsburgh, including TDs of 88 and 43 yards
▪ 1/2 vs. New Orleans - 7 catches for 165 yards with TD catches of 40 and 32 yards
Jeffers ended the '99 season with five straight 100+ receiving games, only two shy of the record, and, most impressively, in those five games he had 8 touchdown catches, all over 30 yards. He continually beat defensive backs with his speed and graceful moves as he broke one big play after another. It is highly unlikely that any NFL receiver has ever had such an amazing stretch of productivity. If Jeffers had been a starter for the entire season instead of just the last nine games he might have broken the single season record for yardage and TDs.
Were Jeffers black he would have been made into a household name, ala Randy Moss. Jeffers outproduced Moss and every other receiver in the NFL for the last 2/3 of 1999, yet received little notoriety.
Jeffers is 6'3" 218 lbs. He went to college at Virginia, where he was, needless to say given his race, a walk-on. From that lowly start he ended up fourth on the school's all-time receiving charts. He was drafted by Denver in 1996, but warmed the bench until being traded to Dallas at the beginning of the 1998 season. Given a chance at the end of '98, Jeffers was very effective, catching 18 balls for 330 yards (18.3 yards per catch) with 2 TDs, including a dramatic 60-yarder from Troy Aikman during the nationally televised Thanksgiving game, following which the announcers said nothing about him other than his name. He was also Dallas' only effective offensive weapon in the team's subsequent playoff loss to Arizona.
However, following the '98 season, there was a large hue and cry that the Cowboys were in desperate need of a number two receiver behind the rapidly declining Michael Irvin. Although Aikman spoke highly of Jeffers and wanted the team to re-sign him, Patrick signed with Carolina as a restricted free agent. The Cowboys could have retained by matching Carolina's offer but declined to do so and Jeffers went on to his breakout '99 season.
It was four long years before this remarkable talent was finally given an opportunity, and he responded in an unforgettable way. Sadly, that brilliant '99 season may be the last memory his fans have of him, as Jeffers suffered a torn ACL in his right knee after running a meaningless two-yard route in an exhibition game in August 2000 and missed the entire '00 season. He has had two surgeries in one knee and one in the other since tearing his ACL. He was limited in '01 to just 14 catches and 127 yards. Various reports indicate he may not be able to play again in '02 and that he will retire or be released. It is a sad turn of events for a college walk-on and NFL benchwarmer who was unstoppable when given the chance to produce.
Edited by: Don Wassall
I had forgottenabout Jeffers. I saw him play a few games and he was sensational. Seems like he always made huge plays and so many of his highlights showed him cruising along withno defender in sight. He was a walk on? Another talented white kid who is a walk on, unbelievable. Edited by: Bart
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
I remember Patrick Jeffers, but not much more about him except his name. It's a shame he got hurt and then reaeased.
"cruising along withno defender in sight." Exactly right.Patrick Jefferswas much like Drew Bennett during that three-game stretch this past season when Bennettscored 8 TDs in 3 games, blowing by defensive backs time and again and doing it for the entire second half of the '99 season. He looked effortless running, too. He was finally given a chance to play regularly, on his third NFL team in four seasons, and was quite simply unstoppable.
Coming off that great season, Carolina was playing a meaningless preseason game against the Steelers the following August. For some reason Jeffers was sent over the middle on a three-yard route, an inexplicable play for someone of his talent especially in an exhibition game. Pittsburgh cornerback Chad Scott hit him in the knee, and that was the instant end of Jeffers' career, though he tried like hell for a couple of years to rehab it and come back (he'd already had problems with his other knee).
That same preseason, the sports section of one of the Pittsburgh papers showed a huge photograph of Scott throwing a punch at then-Steelers rookie WR Danny Farmer. The whole team -- including Bill Cowher and the local media -- turned on Farmer and he was cut shortly thereafter. Apparently Farmer didn't play the role of the Tom Arnold white step 'n fetch it well enough. I'm not saying Scott intentionally took out Jeffers, but it is an interesting coincidence.Edited by: Don Wassall
Coming off that great season, Carolina was playing a meaningless preseason game against the Steelers the following August. For some reason Jeffers was sent over the middle on a three-yard route, an inexplicable play for someone of his talent especially in an exhibition game. Pittsburgh cornerback Chad Scott hit him in the knee, and that was the instant end of Jeffers' career, though he tried like hell for a couple of years to rehab it and come back (he'd already had problems with his other knee).
That same preseason, the sports section of one of the Pittsburgh papers showed a huge photograph of Scott throwing a punch at then-Steelers rookie WR Danny Farmer. The whole team -- including Bill Cowher and the local media -- turned on Farmer and he was cut shortly thereafter. Apparently Farmer didn't play the role of the Tom Arnold white step 'n fetch it well enough. I'm not saying Scott intentionally took out Jeffers, but it is an interesting coincidence.Edited by: Don Wassall
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It used to piss me off the way Staubach would always throw to Drew Pearson, rarely to Golden Richards. Yeah, I remember Roger Radar Carr, he was great. I remember Howard Cosell on Monday Night Football saying he had world class speed.
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The Cowboys also had a white speedster named Doug Donelly that they never used. He was the fastest guy on the team when he played for them.
In his third season with Dallas Doug Donley caught 18 passes and the following year 32 and was the starter in 9 of those games,but injuries took Donley down a peg and if you can't go you're gone.Plus I don't think Landry was too enamored with Donley since he didn't want to take painkilling shots before games so he could play.Although his career was short Donley was a big play reciever who was very exciting to watch and as I mentioned in another post,Donley was the biggest dissapointment for me since he didn't have a longer career.
The great Cowboys teams of the '60s and '70s had plenty of star white players on defense as well as a number of white receivers and running backs. Even Dan Reeves, who wouldn't dare play guys like Bob Christian (who was a star runner at Northwestern)and Travis Jervey as tailbacks when he coached the Falcons, was an "overachieving" running back in his day.
The peoplewho support the Caste System of the past 20+ years as perfectly natural in every way either forget or don't know that there were white stars at every position for30 years after the NFL was integrated in the 1950s.
The peoplewho support the Caste System of the past 20+ years as perfectly natural in every way either forget or don't know that there were white stars at every position for30 years after the NFL was integrated in the 1950s.
Highwayman
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Mike Prior, came into the league as a corner out of Illinois State, even started for a couple years, moved to safety later in his career with the Colts. Great nose for the ball, he'd be among the league leaders in INTS every few years with 6. Good tackler too, returned punts as well.
The Packers picked him up as reserve depth and he played in our Super Bowl win where he made an interception. One of my favorite plays, the Patriot reciever tried to tackle him and Prior dumped him over his back and onto his butt. Looked like a judo move in an action film.
The Packers picked him up as reserve depth and he played in our Super Bowl win where he made an interception. One of my favorite plays, the Patriot reciever tried to tackle him and Prior dumped him over his back and onto his butt. Looked like a judo move in an action film.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
When did Johnson play for the PATS, seems like I've heard someone mention him on here before.
Stan Smagala was a CB out of Notre Dame taken by the Raiders in the 5th round in 90'and was shipped to Dallas on a draft day trade.Probably the last white 'Dame corner of signifigance in a few decades.After a couple undistinguished and injury-filled years with the Cow,playing mostly in the dime and on specialty teams(he could return kicks too)Pittsburgh signed him through Plan B.He got hurt right away with the Steelers,it might have been his ACL,and that was it for his career.
Great names, great names
There were some unsung white guys who played pro football in the 1960slike Charlie Hennigan of the Houston Oilers who was the first receiver to catch 100 passes in a season.
Great backs like Larry Csonka and Jim Kikk, Hoyle Granger, Dick Post, Jim Taylor. Receivers like Boyd Dowler, Mike Ditka, Pat Studstill, Tommy McDonald, Lance Alworth, Jimmy Orr, Don Maynard. Great defenders like Bob Lilly, Tommy Nobis, Dick Butkis, Doug Atkins.
There were some unsung white guys who played pro football in the 1960slike Charlie Hennigan of the Houston Oilers who was the first receiver to catch 100 passes in a season.
Great backs like Larry Csonka and Jim Kikk, Hoyle Granger, Dick Post, Jim Taylor. Receivers like Boyd Dowler, Mike Ditka, Pat Studstill, Tommy McDonald, Lance Alworth, Jimmy Orr, Don Maynard. Great defenders like Bob Lilly, Tommy Nobis, Dick Butkis, Doug Atkins.
Highwayman
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Don Bebee, who hold the unique distiction of being the only guy to play in six superbowls. He was also instumental in the greatest comeback in playoff history, he being one of the recievers--along with the underrated Andre Reed who caught 4 TDs that game--who sparked the Bills to that historic feat.
Effort was king for Bebee, he was the guy who came from all the way down the field to knock the ball out of Leon Lett's hands in a superbowl that was otherwise out of hand for the poor outmatched Bills.
Gimme five Don Bebee's and I could rule the world.
Effort was king for Bebee, he was the guy who came from all the way down the field to knock the ball out of Leon Lett's hands in a superbowl that was otherwise out of hand for the poor outmatched Bills.
Gimme five Don Bebee's and I could rule the world.