Marciano-Louis 1951 on ESPN Classic

[sport historian]

The 1951 bout between Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis is being shown on ESPN Classic Friday night at 10:30 pm ET. This was the last fight for Joe Louis and Marciano won the Heavyweight Title a year later.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I'll have to watch that one with Dad tonight. Thanks for the info on it sport historian.

 

[bigman]

Louis was a great champ and a great man... a WW2 veteran that donated much of his winnings to the war effort..... it was sad to see him get in the ring at such an old age. The Rock (also a veteran though much younger) said afterwards that he hated having to do what he did in that fight.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

He wasn't that old, and he had been winning fights before meeting the Rock. Rocky hated to fight him because he was his boxing hero, not because he was past his prime. He knew he had to beat Louis to get a title shot and respect, and both he got by beating him. He also became "the greatest" of all time.

 

[dkr77]

I did'nt know that Joe Louis had almost a 35 pound weight advantage over Rocky! Marciano came into that bout at 184 and still pushed Louis all over the place. And Louis looked solid too!

 

[White_Savage]

Right about Louis.

What some people fail to understand is that boxers, unlike plutonium, don't have a set half-life. A 37 year-old can be a fallen-down tomato can or still a great fighter, depending on how well he's kept himself up, how much toll the ring has taken on him, personal genetics, etc. To knock Joe Louis in an attempt to knock Marciano is an insult to both. And to compare the 37 y/o Joe Louis who had beaten 8 opponents prior to facing Rocky to the 37 y/o Jim Jeffries who came off his farming retirement and lost ONE-HUNDRED LBS. in training to face Jack Johnson, is ludicrous in the extreme.

 

[bigman]

... except that no one mentioned the Jeffries Johnson fight (so no one has any idea why you, WS, (or is it BS) would bring it up here.... I certainly didnt imply that Rock only felt bad that he was fighting an old washed up Louis... certainly fighting your hero when he is old as Louis was, was not relished byRock...


Thoughit seems clear from this fight as well ashis loss to Ezzard Charles and his performances against Jersy Joe in 1949that he was past his prime... regarding37not being old for a boxer.... that isabsurd... only in todays steroid soaked world can men in theirmid 30s compete with men in their 20s in power competitions.


RegardingMarciano.. probably one of the toptwo pound for pound great heavyweights.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Well bigman, who is the best pound for pound other than Rocky, Dempsey? It surely isn't Clay. Rocky was "the greatest," is "the greatest." and will probably always be.

 

[White_Savage]

bigman:
In previous threads, some people have insisted that Jeffries and Louis were equally washed up simply because both were the same age. I chose to respond here rather than ressurecting old threads. Considering that you have chosen to make an ad hominem personal attack, you are likely that very same person I mention.

 

[Guest]

37 years old is past your prime period only an idiot cannot see that.


And Reb the best P4P boxer is still Sugar Ray Robinson


How many fighters where effective after their 35th year ?


Moore and to a lesser extent Hopkins and a handful of other fighters are exceptions to the rule .


Joe Louis was past his prime period.

 

[Gary]

Greb was best P4P-Marciano beat Louis-period. Rocky was 4th best Heavyweight after Jim Jeffries,Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney!

 

[Guest]

Greb was best P4P-Marciano beat Louis-period. Rocky was 4th best Heavyweight after Jim Jeffries,Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney!

Greb best P4P based on what his record eye witness accounts since Verybody who was alive long enough to see them both in action says that SRR was the best all time. Greb is top ten but not the best.





Tunney did'nt do enough at Hw to deserve a top 10 mention though he stands up fairly well in vs matches. 3 Fights at HW is not enough to be top ten by that way of thinking Sppinks is also a top 10 Hw next to being the best LHW of all time.


Dempsey is lower top 10 Marciano is top 5


And Johnson beat Jeffries end of discussion remember we go by what it says in the record books everything else does'nt matter.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

fits-fighter; I didn't realize Ray Robinson was a heavyweight, thanks for the info!

Fits, your last post made no sense at all and was as poorly written as any I've ever seen on this website. Take a typing class, or either quit taking speed.

 

[Gary]

If we go by the record books only, then Marciano is the BEST! Only pencil necks who eat white bread think Robinson was the best even Gene Fullmer beat him, Spinks couldn't carry Billy Conn or Gene Tunney's jock strap at LHW. Tunney beat Dempsey twice-That alone puts him in a class way above Spinks. Willie Pep or Bob Fitzsimmions were better P4P then Robinson.

 

[Gary]

Lets check the record book-Rocky 49-0 and he beat Walcott twice,Charles Twice and Louis and Moore once each!At least that's what my paper reads!

 

[White_Savage]

Gary, puting Marciano 4th is ridiculous. No ones ever shown me a reasonable argument for anyone beating the guy. Outbox him? Everyone he ever defeated could outbox him. Knock him out? Joe Louis, probably the #2 heavyweight of all time, couldn't do it, and Rocky, God love'em, was hittable...so what he was 37 at the time, power is the last thing a heavy weight loses. We're talking a freak of nature with hands and head of iron here. Putting him in the ring with other humans was almost unfair.

Bottom ten for Dempsey fits? Putting anyone who ain't named Marciano, Louis, or Tunney ahead of Dempsey is crazy.

Yeah, we can go around and around about the merits of Marciano vrs. Louis as opposed to Johnson vrs. Jeffries, but you've got to admit that Louis had alot more fight left in him than Jeffries did. I'd put the Louis that Rocky defeated against most other heavyweights in history. Like I say, there ain't no set half-life. I mean, how young was Tyson and already washed up?

 

[Gary]

Lets take a look at the record books-Robinson lost 19 times and was beat by Carmen Basilio,Joey Archer,Denny Moyer,Paul Pender[twice], Jake LaMotta,Randy Turpin,Joey Maxim ,Gene Fullmer plus others whose names you would not know! His Record 173-19-6--Harry Greb was 106-8-3 plus some fights that never made the books!! He beat such fighters as Gene Tunney,Gunboat Smith,Jack Blackburn,Mickey Walker,Tommy Loughran,Tiger Flowers, Mike McTigue etc. Greb fought some fights blind in one eye!!Those who saw the "Pittsburgh Windmill" say he was the best middleweight ever and he could beat LHW's which Robinson couldn't do! Can you think of Robinson beating Tunney!! Robinson couldn't even beat Joey Maxim or Paul Pender!

 

[Gary]

Rocky was one of my favorite all-time fighters-But Tunney could outbox him-the fight could go either way-But don't count Jeffries out against anybody-I'd take Jeffries and Dempsey to beat Rocky all in there primes.The problem most have with Jeffries is they only know him for a lost to Johnson. Can you rate Clay based only on what he did against Holmes? Dempsey rated Jeffries ahead of himself-I like Dempsey. But I'd say Jeffries was the best at Heavyweight. Jeffries went 15 rounds with Johnson and hadn't fought in some years. Louis didn't last that long with Rocky and Louis had had some fights and was in decent shape-don't over rate Louis-Jeffries was to strong and hit to hard for Joe.

 

[Gary]

White Savage I like your posts and I respect your opinion Rocky may have been the best ever it's all a matter of opinion. There is a good boxing site called CYBERBOXINGZONE.COM ,check it out when you get some time-click on the heavyweight champions and go to Jim Jeffries and click on Final Analyis.It is very interesting and will give you some insight on Jeffries.Have a Great Day!!

 

[bigman]

I would rate Marciano above Dempsey andFrazier as top P4P greatest heavyweights of the 20th century...


If I had to rank the Heavyweights of the 20th century I would put Joe Louis at the top and Jim Jeffries is in the top 3.


Yes WS.. Louis had not blown up and aged the way Jeffries had, with his 5 years out of the ring,... but then again old Jeff certainly had a few very good rounds in him even with the 27 year old peaked Johnson ....Id put Johnson in the top 5 for sure.Edited by: bigman

 

[Guest]

fits-fighter; I didn't realize Ray Robinson was a heavyweight, thanks for the info!

Fits, your last post made no sense at all and was as poorly written as any I've ever seen on this website. Take a typing class, or either quit taking speed.

I said P4P greatest idiot learn to read Edited by: fistfighter

 

[Guest]

If we go by the record books only, then Marciano is the BEST! Only pencil necks who eat white bread think Robinson was the best even Gene Fullmer beat him, Spinks couldn't carry Billy Conn or Gene Tunney's jock strap at LHW. Tunney beat Dempsey twice-That alone puts him in a class way above Spinks. Willie Pep or Bob Fitzsimmions were better P4P then Robinson.

Micheal Spinks was the best LHW of all times . Tunney was NEVER the LHW world champion he was the american champion and did not fight everyone at LHW he could haveSpinks DOMINATED the deepest LHW era in history. Pep was good Robinson was the best Bob fitzsimmons

?. Tunney beating Dempsey twice puts him above Spinks strange Spinks beat Holmes twice So tunney did'nt do anything spinks did'nt do and Holmes is a top 5 HW.

 

[Guest]

Lets take a look at the record books-Robinson lost 19 times and was beat by Carmen Basilio,Joey Archer,Denny Moyer,Paul Pender[twice], Jake LaMotta,Randy Turpin,Joey Maxim ,Gene Fullmer plus others whose names you would not know! His Record 173-19-6--Harry Greb was 106-8-3 plus some fights that never made the books!! He beat such fighters as Gene Tunney,Gunboat Smith,Jack Blackburn,Mickey Walker,Tommy Loughran,Tiger Flowers, Mike McTigue etc. Greb fought some fights blind in one eye!!Those who saw the "Pittsburgh Windmill" say he was the best middleweight ever and he could beat LHW's which Robinson couldn't do! Can you think of Robinson beating Tunney!! Robinson couldn't even beat Joey Maxim or Paul Pender!

Robinson had more fights thus more losses and most of those lose came after Robinsons prime. And People who saw both in their prime say that Robinson was P4P the best .

 

[White_Savage]

Sorry, really see no reason to put Johnson in the top ten. Even though he was 37, he should have been able to put a Jess Willard away, as Dempsey so convincingly did Maybe if it was a top ten list of historically important boxers...

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Fits-fighter, Gary and I were talking about heavyweights you goof, not welter or what ever the helk weight Robinson was. You are the one who needs to learn to read.