Louis vrs. Schmeling Rigged? Why not?

[White_Savage]

A confession is an exception that proves the rule and you know it. The point is, theres no way to prove in an absolutist sense if something happened thirty years ago was rigged. Hell, a bean-spiller could lying.

 

[Guest]

A confession is an exception that proves the rule and you know it. The point is, theres no way to prove in an absolutist sense if something happened thirty years ago was rigged. Hell, a bean-spiller could lying.

There is more evidence that the fight was NOT rigged. You have only your wild crackpot theories nothing else .

 

[White_Savage]

I say again, the most important fight in history, one of the most powerful Presidents in history, Joe Louis up against a fighter who had already defeated him once, all these factors together, and yet you remain so adamant that nope, no, couldn't have happened, despite all political consequences this was the one fight in history that absolutely positively was on the up and up. Can you back up THIS position?

 

[Guest]

I say again, the most important fight in history, one of the most powerful Presidents in history, Joe Louis up against a fighter who had already defeated him once, all these factors together, and yet you remain so adamant that nope, no, couldn't have happened, despite all political consequences this was the one fight in history that absolutely positively was on the up and up. Can you back up THIS position?

Fact Louis Louis was a monster in rematches Joe learnt from earlier mistakes and did better in the rematch Joe showed this consistently through his carreer.


Fact Max was able to beat Joe because of a flaw that Joe had atr the time dropping his left after a jab and it still took him 12 rounds to KO Joe. Joe corrected this flaw and inproved as a fighter.


Fact Joe was one of the best punchers in HW history his speed combined with his precision made him a devastating puncher a man able to put teeth through mouthguards was certainly capable of dishing out the kind of punishment Max got


Fact Joe was one of the best finishers of all time once he got his man hurt people started getting their hats.


Fact Joe vs Max was personal for Joe he did'nt consider himself the champ until he beat max . Therefore Joe would'nt cheat in the biggest fight of his lif.


Fact Joe Was GREAT enough to beat Max without the need of any ''loaded gloves''


Fact There has never been ANY ANY evidence of Joe using loaded gloves except crackpot theories by neo nazi's


Fact fight was to big that if it had been rigged that something would have gotten out after 60 years still NOTHING.

 

[White_Savage]

Nothing...other than Tony Galento claiming Joe's gloves were loaded in the fight? That's something in 60 years.

Can you give me one good reason to leave such an important fight to chance?

 

[Guest]

Nothing...other than Tony Galento claiming Joe's gloves were loaded in the fight? That's something in 60 years.

Can you give me one good reason to leave such an important fight to chance?

Show me where Galento claimed Louis gloves where loaded and From a respected outlet not Neo nazi weekly.


Reason Max vs Joe was personal to Joe. IT mattered to Joe personally to to beat schmelling personally .Throughout his carreer Joe showed this streak to leave no doubt who the better man was . Did Joe Louis also cheat in his other rematches ? . Joe was an honourable man he would have seen cheating against Schmelling as beneath him


There was no reason for Joe to cheat because Joe was the GREATER fighter he did not need to cheat .


Schmelling was not a good enough fighter to pull the same trick twice against Louis .


But i know that you will never accept that Schmelling got beaten fair and square .

 

[Gary]

Louis had no honor! He died a bum without a dime. Got beat by Schmeling in his prime. Ducked Combat during WW2. Louis was also a very dumb man would could barely read. Schmeling was a combat Veteran who was wounded.Max lived well past 90 and died a millionaire.Max never needed a handout.Now Buckwheat tell me who was the better man!!!

 

[Guest]

Louis had no honor! He died a bum without a dime. Got beat by Schmeling in his prime. Ducked Combat during WW2. Louis was also a very dumb man would could barely read. Schmeling was a combat Veteran who was wounded.Max lived well past 90 and died a millionaire.Max never needed a handout.Now Buckwheat tell me who was the better man!!!

Joe was the Greater fighter live with it Joe is minimum number 2 all time at HW Max does'nt make the top 10. What they did outside the ring has no bearing on what they achieved in the ring.. And 1 botched prachute drop does not a hardened war veteran make . Louis diid'nt fight neither did Dempsey or Tunney. Max would'nt have been sent into combat if he had'nt ticked Hitler of by losing to Louis.

 

[Gary]

Buckwheat-Max beat Louis when Louis was in his prime

Louis died at 67 a bum. Max was a pallbearer at his funeral and then paid the funeral bill!Max had HONOR!! Max was a paratropper and was sent on suicidal missions because Hitler hated him-BUT HE ALWAYS MADE IT BACK AND WAS TREATED LIKE A HERO

Louis got a job as a bellhop in Las Vegas. Max died at 99 a millionaire!!Sorry fistfarter you lose

 

[Guest]

Buckwheat-Max beat Louis when Louis was in his prime

Louis died at 67 a bum. Max was a pallbearer at his funeral and then paid the funeral bill!Max had HONOR!! Max was a paratropper and was sent on suicidal missions because Hitler hated him-BUT HE ALWAYS MADE IT BACK AND WAS TREATED LIKE A HERO

Louis got a job as a bellhop in Las Vegas. Max died at 99 a millionaire!!Sorry fistfarter you lose

Max went out on 1 mission.

 

[Gary]

Read his story you fool if you know how to read it says missions[that means more then one]!

 

[Guest]

"I have only heard a fool named werewolf talk about a ''fix''."


______________________


You rang?

Yes, as I have said on other forums, and explained my reasons for saying so, I believe that Joe Louis' gloves were "loaded" for the second Schmeling fight.

By the way, the Negroes rioted in Harlem after the first fight.





ww

 

[yanling]

Louis had no honor! He died a bum without a dime. Got beat by Schmeling in his prime. Ducked Combat during WW2. Louis was also a very dumb man would could barely read. Schmeling was a combat Veteran who was wounded.Max lived well past 90 and died a millionaire.Max never needed a handout.Now Buckwheat tell me who was the better man!!!

Joe was the Greater fighter live with it Joe is minimum number 2 all time at HW Max does'nt make the top 10. What they did outside the ring has no bearing on what they achieved in the ring.. And 1 botched prachute drop does not a hardened war veteran make . Louis diid'nt fight neither did Dempsey or Tunney. Max would'nt have been sent into combat if he had'nt ticked Hitler of by losing to Louis.

Actually, Tunney was in the USMC and his nickname throughout his career, other than "The Professor" (because he was so well read and college-educated) was "The Fighting Marine."

Tunney is probably one of the less spectacular champions of all time because he didn't always go for the knockout but he did on several notable occasions demonstrate that he had knockout power in both fists. He is one of the greatest ring generals of all time, but would probably get more credit if he were black. If a black fighter fought scientifically and was as educated as Gene Tunney he would be all over the magazines and trying to sell me $200 sneakers made by some poor Malaysian slave.

 

[Tired old White]

Just and off the wall thought. But considering that Schmeling was neither a Nazi or a racist could he have taken a dive to snatch a major propaganda tool out of Hitler's hand

 

[aussieaussie31]

Alot of interesting theories. I don't know too much about the whole situation. However, no one can deny that the implications (If Smelling knocked out Louis again for the 2nd time) would be huge. With the stakes so high I find it very possible that there was some funny business going on behind the scenes. What we do know for sure is that Max did not get a shot at the world title due to his nationality. (after he knocked louis the first time)

Think about it. Rosenfelt, oops I mean Roosevelt was instrumental in coercing the Japanese to attack (from orders up above) America at Pearl Harbor. If he was willing to trade the lifes of a few thousand Americans at Pearl Harbor to please his masters and have an excuse to get into the war (to fight Germany) why should we believe that it was not possible that he would rig a boxing match.

Again, I am unsure from lack of knowledge whether the fight was fixed or not. However I would say the possibilty is undeniably there.

 

[Guest]

Ok, here's my personal knowledge of this matter, whatever it's worth. When i was getting into my boxing thing, I was working up in the Bronx with a relative of Abe Simon, the big Jewish guy who fought Joe Louis twice. This relative also used to be a boxer himself and he knew a lot of people in the business. He sent me to a friend of his, an old time trainer at some gym in the Bronx. So we were talking about my partner and Abe Simon and then Joe Louis and then the Louis-Schmeling fights. The trainer told me that Louis' gloves were loaded for fight #2 and the fight was fixed and everyone in the NYC boxing business at the time knew that it was fixed.

Supposedly the orders came down from Roosevelt - Rosenfield, whatever his true name was - and it came via the (Jewish) governor's office in NY and the (Jewish) Mayor's office in NYC, and Roosevelt said that he was not going to be embarrassed by Germany again.

So they loaded up Louis' gloves. OK, Schmeling, the "big bad Nazi", had a Jewish trainer, an old timer who knew the business inside out, Joe Jacobs. Now Joe Jacobs would have spotted loaded gloves right away, so here's what they did: they wouldn't let him enter the arena. Right before the fight they said they just found out that he was connected with the liquor business so they couldn't allow him in. (Remember the scene in "Casablanca" where the captain says, "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
")

Now Joe Jacobs managed another heavyweight contender, the famous Two Ton Tony Galento. Everybody knew what Galento did when he wasn't boxing - he worked the bar at a tavern in Jersey City. But they said they just found out about this liquor connection right before the big fight, so Joe Jacobs wasn't there with Schmeling and nobody looked at Louis' gloves

Louis hit Schmeling with a kidney punch and knocked him out. Louis never hit anybody with anything like such a damaging body shot either before or after that fight, not did Schmeling ever suffer effects from a body shot like that, nothin even close in both cases.

Dr Goebbels, of course, wanted to protest the fight, but for some reason Schmeling wouldn't go along, and that's why Hitler became angry with him and sent him to the eastern front.

I would have really liked to hear Schmeling himself respond to this. The Klitschko brothers spent a lot of time with him. I wonder what they know about it.





ww

Edited by: werewolf

 

[white is right]

It is a distinct possibility the fight was fixed. He literally destroyed him and broke bones. Also considering the political climate it makes sense. I have heard the same rumor about the Dempsey Willard fight and he basically did the same thing to Willard. Also with all the heavy punchers that fought after Louis how come nobody did that to another contender? Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, Morrison, Lewis and the K brothers? Boxing has been the most corrupt sport in the history of sports and the fight that was in the best interest of the US propaganda war against the Nazis needed to be won fair or foul.Edited by: white is right

 

[yanling]

Schmeling had been screwed over in a fight with an American before. In
his second title defense (against Jack Sharkey, whom he previously
defeated) the judges gave the decision to Schmeling's opponent even
though Schmeling had convincingly outboxed and outclassed Sharkey
through the entire fifteen rounds.

It was the birth of the phrase "We wuzz robbed!" by Joe Jacobs.

I'm not saying the second Louis-Schmeling bout was fixed, I'm just saying
it isn't impossible. Good over-the-hill fighters have been knocked out in
only one round before by a rising talent. One has only to remember Spinx
versus Tyson. The differnce is Tyson was at the time an unknown quantity
where as Louis had been exposed by Schmeling as a good but not
invincible fighter.

The age differential between Louis and Schmeling in the 1938 bout was
about nine years.

The age differential between Marciano and Louis in their bout was about
ten years.

Everyone says Louis' victory over Schmeling was his greatest triumph.

Everyone also says Marciano's victory over Louis was a cheap win over an
old man.

Hypocritial much?

Joe Louis hit Billy Conn (some Irish guy who was winning against Louis
but then got cocky in Round 15) with some of his most devastating shots,
but Conn wasn't very badly hurt. In fact, he was humorous and alert after
the final bell.

Conn was a good fighter but he didn't have half Schmeling's chin.

 

[Guest]

"Joe Louis hit Billy Conn (some Irish guy who was winning against Louis

but then got cocky in Round 15) with some of his most devastating shots,

but Conn wasn't very badly hurt. In fact, he was humorous and alert after

the final bell."

________________________


I just watched the film of that fight. Billy Conn, the light heavyweight champ moving up in weight, fought brilliantly and had Louis completely beaten, but then, as he himself jokingly admitted, he gave the fight away by getting cocky. Unfortunately, he did not do well in the rematch five years later, but by then he had been inactive for well over four years. Louis outweighed Conn by 25 pounds in both fights. Conn started off his pro career as a lightweight. He's in the boxing hall of fame.




ww



Edited by: werewolf

 

[pt.guard2]

Have not heard anything about a conspiracy in the Louis Schmeling fight....but Conn was not just "some Irish guy" he was one of the greatest light heavyweight champions that ever lived and had the skills, speed and heart to beat Louis convincingly for most of the fight until he decided to slug it out with him.

When asked why he chose to slug in a fight he had easily won, his quote (which as an Irishman, I find humorous) was "what's the sense of being Irish, if you can't be dumb?"

 

[yanling]

no disrespect meant to Conn -- my comment that he was "some Irish guy" was meant tongue in cheek: to point out that he isn't a commonly known figure like Louis even though he deserves to be.

 

[Charles Martel]

The Louis-Schmeling fight had been discussed in this thread.

 

[ww]

Continued from here:

http://www.castefootball.us/forum/f...=22&title=david-haye-the-great-black-hype

Well, where is it?

What would you like, signed and
notarized affidavits from FD Roosevelt and Governor Lehman? The boxing
fixers don't leave paper trails, you know. Check out the videos of
these two fights on Youtube and notice the difference in the effect of
Louis' punches in both. In the second fight every single punch was
devastating. Punches hurt much more when you've inserted a horse shoe
into your mitt.This should be a separate thread.

Schmeling's handlers examined Louis' gloves before the fight and vice versa.

What
"handlers"? He was all alone. They wouldn't let Joe Jacobs in the
stadium, and his corner man didn't show up. Schmeling was there in his
locker all alone. Nobody examined Louis' gloves.

Something I don't understand, but it must have been discussed a lot at the time, is why did Schmeling agree to have the second fight in extremely hostile New York City again? He won the first one. Why didn't he demand that the second one be held in Berlin, which due to the spectacular Olympics was the premier sports location in the world at the time?

And something I don't understand about boxing gloves: Even in fights where the gloves are checked in the dressing rooms, what stops them from getting altered between the dressing room and the ring, or back again? I never see the ref or anyone inspecting gloves in the ring. For example, what stopped Angelo Dundee from slipping something sharp into Cassius Clay's glove in that long interval between rounds that he got to recuperate vs. Henry Cooper (and why haven't the record books been corrected to show that Cooper won that fight since Dundee has admitted deliberately cutting Clay's glove to give him extra time between rounds - just one out of many Cassius Clay alias M. Ali's so-called wins?), or maybe slipping something sharp into the lacing of Lennox Lewis' gloves in the Vitali Klitschko fight?

And, again, look at the difference in the effect all of Louis' punches had in the second Schmeling fight compared to the first. The fights are on Youtube.

Edited by: ww

 

[The Hock]

My understanding is that Schmeling wanted a third fight but couldn't get it.

 

[space hillbilly]

Continued from here:

http://www.castefootball.us/forum/f...=22&title=david-haye-the-great-black-hype

Well, where is it?

What would you like, signed and notarized affidavits from FD Roosevelt and Governor Lehman? The boxing fixers don't leave paper trails, you know. Check out the videos of these two fights on Youtube and notice the difference in the effect of Louis' punches in both. In the second fight every single punch was devastating. Punches hurt much more when you've inserted a horse shoe into your mitt.This should be a separate thread.

Schmeling's handlers examined Louis' gloves before the fight and vice versa.

What "handlers"? He was all alone. They wouldn't let Joe Jacobs in the stadium, and his corner man didn't show up. Schmeling was there in his locker all alone. Nobody examined Louis' gloves.

Something I don't understand, but it must have been discussed a lot at the time, is why did Schmeling agree to have the second fight in extremely hostile New York City again? He won the first one. Why didn't he demand that the second one be held in Berlin, which due to the spectacular Olympics was the premier sports location in the world at the time?

And something I don't understand about boxing gloves: Even in fights where the gloves are checked in the dressing rooms, what stops them from getting altered between the dressing room and the ring, or back again? I never see the ref or anyone inspecting gloves in the ring. For example, what stopped Angelo Dundee from slipping something sharp into Cassius Clay's glove in that long interval between rounds that he got to recuperate vs. Henry Cooper (and why haven't the record books been corrected to show that Cooper won that fight since Dundee has admitted deliberately cutting Clay's glove to give him extra time between rounds - just one out of many Cassius Clay alias M. Ali's so-called wins?), or maybe slipping something sharp into the lacing of Lennox Lewis' gloves in the Vitali Klitschko fight?

And, again, look at the difference in the effect all of Louis' punches had in the second Schmeling fight compared to the first. The fights are on Youtube.

It would have been great if Schmilng had of done like the negros that got lucky against the Klitschkos and refused a rematch. saying "I done beat your boy, dont need to do it again!"
the black fighters gets away with it why not Schmilng?Edited by: lost