last NFL team with majority white starters

[referendum]

I'm wondering when there last was an NFL team with a consistent and solid majority of white starters, and I'm not referring to a one time only deal that just lasted a few weeks where a team had maybe 12 starters but that was it. I believe the Patriots have come close to achieving this, but I'm looking for a team that had maybe 13 to 15 white starters for a whole season.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

This question has been asked and the issue discussed countless times. It was way before the Patriots. It was probably the early 80s Dolphins teams, with maybe a few other exceptions. The 1982 Miami defensive was majority white. I've read they started 8 whites on that defense, including the Killer Bs. The offense was majority white too. I can't think of any team after them that was as white as that. The early 90s Bills teams were about half and half. I can almost guarantee you it has been over 25 seasons since there was a solid white majority team in the NFL.

 

[sport historian]

This question has been asked and the issue discussed countless times. It was way before the Patriots. It was probably the early 80s Dolphins teams, with maybe a few other exceptions. The 1982 Miami defensive was majority white. I've read they started 8 whites on that defense, including the Killer Bs. The offense was majority white too. I can't think of any team after them that was as white as that. The early 90s Bills teams were about half and half. I can almost guarantee you it has been over 25 seasons since there was a solid white majority team in the NFL. 

Off the top of my head, I would agree that it was the Dolphins around the mid-80's.

 

[Don Wassall]

I agree with Col. Reb and Sport Historian on the Dolphins of the mid-'80s. Their Super Bowl team from the 1984 season was majority white starters. 1985 has always been the key year to me when the Caste System really kicked in, ending majority white teams and majority white rosters. By the early '90s the Dolphins (under the same head coach, Don Shula) were very black.

Some teams have occasionally flirted with very close to majority white rosters, such as the Super Bowl Bills teams, the Rams under Mike Martz, and the Colts and Patriots have been fairly close at times in recent years, but 9 to 10 white starters seems to be entrenched as the allowable ceiling since '85.

 

[devans]

file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_filelist.xml</font> </span>

<u1></u1>

The Bills of the early nineties must have started a team that included...</span>QB Jim Kelly</span>FB Jamie Mueller</span>WR Don Beebe</span>TE Pete
Metzellaars</span><u1></u1>

LG Jim
Ritcher </span><u1></u1>

C Kent Hull </span>

<u1>John H. Davis </span></u1>

<u1></u1>NT Jeff Wright </span>

<u1></u1>

LILB
Shane Conlan </span><u1></u1>

RILB Ray Bentley </span>

<u1></u1>

FS Mark
Kelso</span>

Kicker
Scott Norwood</span>

That
makes 12 with the kicker, but I could have missed some linemen. Also The great Steve Tasker was a key player for them. Technically
Beebe rarely "started" but was usually on the field for the second
offensive play, and stayed on except in short yardage obvious running plays.</span>







Edited by: devans

 

[Don Wassall]

The Bills started 9 white players against the Giants for the January 1991 Super Bowl. That's including RG John H. Davis as white because I don't recall him offhand. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199101270buf.htm

They had 9 white starters for the 1992 Super Bowl against the Redskins: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199201260buf.htm

They had 11 white starters for the blowout loss to the Cowboys in the '93 Super Bowl (Beebe was listed as a starter for that game): http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199301310buf.htm

For the '94 Super Bowl the Bills listed 10 white starters (again counting John H. Davis who I can't remember as white): http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199401300buf.htm

 

[green fire317]

hard to believe they made four straight superbowls and lost all of them.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

hard to believe they made four straight superbowls and lost all of them.

Yeah, only a few million people have been saying the same thing for the last 15+ years.

 

[whiteathlete33]

As bad as things have been they are becoming worse. I do think that white o linemen will make a rebound in the next 5 years.

 

[white is right]

I was huge Bills fan then. The Bills had no black starters on their O-line in their first visit. In subsequent years they had "House" Ballard as their left tackle. So that lineman was white. For majority rosters the last SB champion that I'm certain about was the 85' Bears. As white players have been purged in the speed positions the chances of a majority white roster have been made near impossible. Teams like the Patriots and Colts have still used white players in these positions.

 

[Maple Leaf]

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_filelist.xml</font> &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;The Bills of the early nineties must have started a team that included...&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;QB Jim Kelly&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;FB Jamie Mueller&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;WR Don Beebe&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;TE Pete
Metzellaars&lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;LG Jim
Ritcher &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin-top: 6pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;C Kent Hull &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;p style="margin-top: 6pt;"&gt;&lt;u1&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;John H. Davis &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin-top: 6pt;"&gt;&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;NT Jeff Wright &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;LILB
Shane Conlan &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin-top: 6pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;RILB Ray Bentley &lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;u1&gt;&lt;/u1&gt;

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;FS Mark
Kelso&lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;Kicker
Scott Norwood&lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;p style="margin: 6pt 0cm 0.0001pt;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"&gt;That
makes 12 with the kicker, but I could have missed some linemen. Also The great Steve Tasker was a key player for them. Technically
Beebe rarely "started" but was usually on the field for the second
offensive play, and stayed on except in short yardage obvious running plays.&lt;o&gt;&lt;/o&gt;&lt;/span&gt;

It's hard to believe they didn't start Beebee. He was their best weapon. I remember watching some of his highlight catches on the sports news. His four TD game was well publicised at the time. But the plays the white smartass announcers really liked to run was him getting flipped 360 degrees. His speed really annoyed the stunned white zombie fans who thought a white should never be called fast except in skating, and the blacks didn't like him because they were supposed to all be 4.0 superfast while all whites are supposed to be 5.5 superslow.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Beebe & Tasker were top notch athletes & Pro-Bowl caliber indeed.

 

[white is right]

Mueller was only a starter on the first Bills Super Bowl team. By the time of the second he was a backup to Carwell Gardner. In 88' or 89' he was the Bills feature back for half a season when Thurman Thomas went down with a major injury. As for Beebee he wasn't that good at running routes in his first few seasons and the serious neck injury set him back for a season. It's amazing that he was able to come back from two serious injuries in his career.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I was huge Bills fan then. The Bills had no black starters on their O-line in their first visit. In subsequent years they had "House" Ballard as their left tackle. So that lineman was white. For majority rosters the last SB champion that I'm certain about was the 85' Bears. As white players have been purged in the speed positions the chances of a majority white roster have been made near impossible. Teams like the Patriots and Colts have still used white players in these positions.

white is right, I just looked at the Bears team picture from their Super Bowl win and you are right about them having a majority White roster. They had 33 Whites and 20 blacks. They started 3 Whites on defense and 7 on offense in that Super Bowl, so (as has been mentioned here before) they weren't a majority White team on the field.

By comparison, the 1986 Giants had just 19 Whites on their roster and the 1987 Redskins had 25. On the other hand though, the 1988 49ers had a majority White roster, with 30 Whites and 23 blacks. The 49ers also had a majority White roster in 1989, with 28 Whites and 25 blacks.

 

[Don Wassall]

I was huge Bills fan then. The Bills had no black starters on their O-line in their first visit. In subsequent years they had "House" Ballard as their left tackle. So that lineman was white. For majority rosters the last SB champion that I'm certain about was the 85' Bears. As white players have been purged in the speed positions the chances of a majority white roster have been made near impossible. Teams like the Patriots and Colts have still used white players in these positions.

white is right, I just looked at the Bears team picture from their Super Bowl win and you are right about them having a majority White roster. They had 33 Whites and 20 blacks. They started 3 Whites on defense and 7 on offense in that Super Bowl, so (as has been mentioned here before) they weren't a majority White team on the field.

By comparison, the 1986 Giants had just 19 Whites on their roster and the 1987 Redskins had 25. On the other hand though, the 1988 49ers had a majority White roster, with 30 Whites and 23 blacks. The 49ers also had a majority White roster in 1989, with 28 Whites and 25 blacks.

Some very interesting stats, Col. Reb. The '85 Bears having just 20 blacks is pretty amazing, especially because I remember noticing how black their defense was for that time. The 49ers being that White is interesting too. I don't believe there has been a majority White roster in the last 20 years, though the Bills were very close during their Super Bowl years, and the Rams at times under Mike Martz in the early '00s.

Parcells' team being so black is undoubtedly one of the reasons the media has always adored him. The NFL Network has been hyping an upcoming special on Parcells for weeks now.

It seems the Caste System really kicked into gear in the mid-'80s, when Whites were effectively eliminated at RB and WR, and then again in the late '80s and early '90s, when defenses went from often still having from 2 to6 Whites starting to being almost exclusivelyblack. Edited by: Don Wassall

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I took a look at the Bills' team pictures from 1990-93 to see what the number of Whites was on those rosters. The problem is that the 1990 picture includes 62 players (30 White, 32 black) and the 1991 picture includes 61 players (31 White, 30 black). The 1992 team picture had 56 players in uniform, 29 Whites and 27 blacks. The 1993 team picture includes 59 players, 29 Whites and 30 blacks.

I wonder why they didn't picture just those on the 53 man roster?
Strange. Anyway, its interesting that the 1991 and 1992 team pictures have more Whites
than blacks. I'll have to check their rosters year by year and player by player later on sometime to see if their rosters were actually ever over half White during that 4 year period. I don't think they were ever more than half White on the field (starters) during that time, as Don pointed out last year.

 

[Truthteller]

I count 28 white players/27 black players (assuming DB David Pool is black) on the 1993 Buffalo Bills...By 1994, the roster went majority black by about 5, per my quick count.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/1993_roster.htm

I would suggest the expansion Carolina Panthers (Bill Polian GM) and Jacksonville Jaguars (95, 96, 97) also probably came close to having 50% white rosters. Both teams fell one game short of the Super Bowl in their 2nd season of existence, 1996.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I count 28 white players/27 blackplayers (assuming DB David Pool is black) on the 1993 Buffalo Bills...By 1994, the roster went majority black by a about 5, per my quick count.
<div></div>
<div>http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/1993_roster.htm</div>
<div></div>
<div>I would also suggest the expansion Carolina Panthers (Bill Polian GM) and Jacksonville Jaguars (95, 96, 97) also probably came close to having 50% white rosters. Both teams fell one game short of the Super Bowl in their 2nd season of existence, 1996.</div>

I had a tough time telling a couple of players on that '93 team picture, so you could very well be right, Truthteller, although the picture I was looking at had 59 players in it, not 55. I'll look into more later on sometime.

The picture I saw of the '95 Panthers had 29 Whites and 38 blacks, for a total of 67 players. Again, I don't understand why they have more than the 53 players they are limited to keeping on their active roster.

 

[Don Wassall]

The Bills likely at a few different points went just over a majority for a week or two, given the non-stop moves every team makes during a season, but I'm not sure there's any way to know for sure since there was no Caste Football then and I'm sure the league office wouldn't be forthcoming about it if they even know.

Besides the Rams, other teams since the turn of the century that have come within a few players of a White majority include the Colts, Patriots, Packers, the Falcons one year under Dan Reeves, and even the Titans one season back when Jeff Fisher was obviously afflicted with malaria or some other disease and actually had a dozen White defensive players on the roster. So I guess the bright side is that a White majority hasn't become something totally out of reach; in fact it's very possible given the year-in year-out success of the relatively Whitest teams (Patriots, Colts and Packers) that it might be breeched again in the near future. The clearly shrinking pool of even modestly talented black players (e.g. most NFL "defenses" have become jokes) combined with their endless arrestsand selfish behavior should also be kept in mind. The Caste System has become more difficult to keep in place in football than it is in basketball.Edited by: Don Wassall

 

[whiteathlete33]

I count 28 white players/27 black players (assuming DB David Pool is black) on the 1993 Buffalo Bills...By 1994, the roster went majority black by about 5, per my quick count.
<div></div>
<div>http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/1993_roster.htm</div>
<div></div>
<div>I would suggest the expansion Carolina Panthers (Bill Polian GM) and Jacksonville Jaguars (95, 96, 97) also probably came close to having 50% white rosters. Both teams fell one game short of the Super Bowl in their 2nd season of existence, 1996.</div>

I was thinking the same thing and the Panthers and Jaguars, Truthteller. I remember watching those teams as a teen and I was surprised how white both of them were. The Jaguars had quite a few white defensive players. I looked at the rosters on pro-football reference but I can't tell whether some of the players are white or black. It's difficult to find pictures of some of these players.

 

[foreverfree]

Colonel_Reb, those pictures likely include players on injured reserve and practice squads, as well as the 53 man rosters. Practice squads, I think first began in 1989 (5 per team)? So prior to that, the team pictures probably included less players.

They probably included the IR's and PS's to make those guys feel more like part of the team.

John

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Colonel_Reb, those pictures likely include players on injured reserve and practice squads, as well as the 53 man rosters. Practice squads, I think first began in 1989 (5 per team)? So prior to that, the team pictures probably included less players.

They probably included the IR's and PS's to make those guys feel more like part of the team.



John

That's what I was thinking, but the numbers seem to vary quite a bit from year to year. If possible, I'm going to break down the official 53 man roster, player by player, to settle the question about these teams once and for all. People (including me) have been asking these questions since I started posting here (and most likely before that). We've been able to answer the questions about White RBs, but haven't yet totally answered the question of which team had the last half White (or better) starting team and which team had a majority White roster. Yeah, I doubt the Bills had more than 11 White starters for more than several games at any point during those 4 years. It is amazing (considering how dark today's NFL is) that some teams could still field a majority White starting 22 if they wanted to. I'm looking forward to these barriers being broken again before too many years pass, and I want to know exactly how long its been since it last happened. That's why I re-visit these topics from time to time.

Thanks for the input everyone! Between all of us, it shouldn't be too difficult to answer these questions with some finality.
Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Deadlift]

The Bills likely at a few different points went just over a majority for a week or two, given the non-stop moves every team makes during a season, but I'm not sure there's any way to know for sure since there was no Caste Football then and I'm sure the league office wouldn't be forthcoming about it if they even know.
<div> </div>
<div>Besides the Rams, other teams since the turn of the century that have come within a few players of a White majority include the Colts, Patriots, Packers, the Falcons one year under Dan Reeves, and even the Titans one season back when Jeff Fisher was obviously afflicted with malaria or some other disease and actually had a dozen White defensive players on the roster.  So I guess the bright side is that a White majority hasn't become something totally out of reach; in fact it's very possible given the year-in year-out success of the relatively Whitest teams (Patriots, Colts and Packers) that it might be breeched again in the near future.  The clearly shrinking pool of even modestly talented black players (e.g. most NFL "defenses" have become jokes) combined with their endless arrests and selfish behavior should also be kept in mind.  The Caste System has become more difficult to keep in place in football than it is in basketball.</div>

I do think it's easier for blacks to be "force-fed" into the pros in basketball, even when they are only "solid" in college for 1 or 2 seasons. And, of course, they are given "every opportunity to succeed." Generally speaking, it's easier for the MSM to proclaim that a young black is an "NBA star." In football, however, the MSM can't claim right now that Donald Brown or Ryan Mathews are "stars." Look at how Pat White (no longer in the NFL) got exposed. If he was in the NBA, he could just take a bunch of shots from his guard position and be proclaimed a "star." Indeed, football is a different animal.

At the same time, though, several NBA teams are terrible every year... and more and more people are coming out and saying it might be wise to contract a couple of NBA teams (Memphis and Toronto are mentioned).

And Bob Knight mentioned that there just isn't enough "talent" to fill the whole NBA. That's especially true when you're targeting overwhelmingly blacks, and many of the "foreigners" being targeted are black, too...

Being "tall" alone does not make one a competent basketball player, and this applies to everyone (some people just don't have good basketball instincts.)... Just like being "big" does not automatically make one a great NFL lineman.

I figured that so-called "best" player - Kobe - would lay several eggs in last year's playoffs and he did... Pau Gasol truly saved the Lakers!! When Kobe is prone to choking and so is Lebron.. what does that say about the rest of the league? There are some good players' of various races in the league, but not enough.

 

[white is right]

I was huge Bills fan then. The Bills had no black starters on their O-line in their first visit. In subsequent years they had "House" Ballard as their left tackle. So that lineman was white. For majority rosters the last SB champion that I'm certain about was the 85' Bears. As white players have been purged in the speed positions the chances of a majority white roster have been made near impossible. Teams like the Patriots and Colts have still used white players in these positions.

white is right, I just looked at the Bears team picture from their Super Bowl win and you are right about them having a majority White roster. They had 33 Whites and 20 blacks. They started 3 Whites on defense and 7 on offense in that Super Bowl, so (as has been mentioned here before) they weren't a majority White team on the field. By comparison, the 1986 Giants had just 19 Whites on their roster and the 1987 Redskins had 25. On the other hand though, the 1988 49ers had a majority White roster, with 30 Whites and 23 blacks. The 49ers also had a majority White roster in 1989, with 28 Whites and 25 blacks.

The 85' Bears started Ron Rivera who at the time might have been regarded as White. He is ethnic Puerto Rican and looks predominately White. These days he would be classified as Hispanic because of publicity reasons. Similar to Tom Fears and Rick Casares.

 

[Truthteller]

The Bills likely at a few different points went just over a majority for a week or two, given the non-stop moves every team makes during a season, but I'm not sure there's any way to know for sure since there was no Caste Football then and I'm sure the league office wouldn't be forthcoming about it if they even know.

DW and Colonel_Reb, perhaps the only wayyou could get this info would be to get some old copies of Pro Football Weekly back from the 1990's, they used to update depth charts/rosters on a weekly basis. That said, there isn't much point to doing that. I thinkthere's a pretty good chance that the we've found the answer to this question -- the Bills of the early 1990's.

So I guess the bright side is that a White majority hasn't become something totally out of reach; in fact it's very possible given the year-in year-out success of the relatively Whitest teams (Patriots, Colts and Packers) that it might be breeched again in the near future.

I think if the current Packers just had a few backup white defensive tackles (which were common in the 1990's, as "rotation guys") and a extra white safety and tight end, they'd be at 50/50% or above right now. I really believe there is some subtlepressure on Packers exec's Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy (both white, ex-NFL players)to not get to that 50/50 mark (or above), hence the release of guys like Matt Giordano and Spence Havner, who, at the very least, were decent, versatile backups

The clearly shrinking pool of even modestly talented black players (e.g. most NFL "defenses" have become jokes) combined with their endless arrestsand selfish behavior should also be kept in mind. The Caste System has become more difficult to keep in place in football than it is in basketball.

This might be true, but it will take some time. As I noted in a thread I started the other day, practice squads are currently less than 30% white. This doesn't bode well, considering many "Caste friendly" teams only seek white special teams mascots (LB's, DB's,RB's)and 5th receiver/3rd tight end types. These are the sorts of guys that typically put in a year on PSquads and just don't exist right now.

Just as a tangent, what makes the current Patriots so different than even theSuper Bowl Bills, is those Buffalo teamsused to draft a lot of white guys fairly high and would have a lot of quality white starters. The current Patriots have amazinglyturned a lot of low picks/UFA's into starters or superstars -- Brady, Welker, Woodhead, Nikovich, Wright, Koppen, ect. Cleveland is sort of the same way, currently. That's very good -- at least they are giving deserving athletes a fair shake.

I was thinking the same thing and the Panthers and Jaguars, Truthteller. I remember watching those teams as a teen and I was surprised how white both of them were. The Jaguars had quite a few white defensive players. I looked at the rosters on pro-football reference but I can't tell whether some of the players are white or black. It's difficult to find pictures of some of these players.

W33, those were some fun teams to watch. They got real good, real quickly. The only way the MSMedia could explain this sudden success by a bunch of "lunch-pail", "overachievers", was because they received one extra pick at the end of round one in 1995and had some extra cap room to start out with. No one mentioned the fact that they were giving deserving players of all races, chances to play more and succeed, while most NFL teams kept recycling the some worthless "projects"....Cleveland came back to the league in 1999 and Jacka$$ GM Dwight Clark decidedthey needed to be more "athletic" right off the bat than Jax and Carolina. That is a franchise that has been around 12 years, and is only now starting to show lasting promise...One more quick point: What's the link between the Bills of the early 1990's, the expansion Panthers and today's Colts? It's Bill Polian, who seems to understand talent.

The 85' Bears started Ron Rivera who at the time might have been regarded as White. He is ethnic Puerto Rican and looks predominately White. These days he would be classified as Hispanic because of publicity reasons. Similar to Tom Fears and Rick Casares.

Rivera seems to be fairly white friendly as a coach. In Chicago, as the DC, he somehow convinced Hatie to start several whitesduring their Super Bowl run-- Urlacher, Hillenmeyer, Dvorcek and Todd Johnson. Since leaving, only Urlacher, who has a mullato son(something Hatie probably loves), has remained as a entrenched starter....As far as the "Hispanic" label. NFL.com used to boast thatthe lilly white, green-eyed Adam Archuletawas part of a "hispanic revolution in the NFL"....Adam's nickname on the Rams (besides Adam Martz), by the way, was"Adam the Greek", as he used to say he was mostly greek (ethnically).
Edited by: Truthteller