If things were fair

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Again I admit I should probably look this stuff up before making a guess. But I had heard a couple times in conversations that Arkansas was fairly white, but now that I recall I think the people who said it were comparing it to other southern states in that area.

yeah, you should look it up. that, or respect and read posts by those who know more about the situation than you.

as i posted, Colonel Reb showed an official census link that illustrated that Arkansas' schools have a 23.8% black population. that's nearly twice the national percentage. so, again, i stand by my earlier statements. the facts do, too.

mayhap you'll quit speculating/guessing/whatever it is you do in order to dismiss what other (less liberal) posters have to say at some point. especially when you so obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Tough, your analysis of individual high school players who have been screwed provides very important documentation that is priceless. however, using numbers that explain the Caste System from a larger perspective is also important. your dismissal of facts and figures because they don't fit your assumptions ignores that.

mayhap, you should consider the value of other folks' knowledge and research.

No you're right about me just trusting what I've heard or speculating sometimes. Arkansas is probably only more white compared to many of the states in that area. I had forgotten the conversation I had had about it that was with my uncle most recently (who said that). I live on my aunt and uncle's property, currently here in Jersey (also with my two cousins) in their families garage apartment.

I think what my uncle meant was states like Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Florida and maybe North Carolina (the later two; sort of in that area). I believe have more minorities overall than Arkansas. Florida and Texas have a large Hispanic population; just like New Mexico, Arizona and California have from what I have heard on t.v. I definitely know more about the Hispanic demographics than black.

Not sure where the best place to find this kind of info for states to double check it; the government state websites are sometimes hard to navigate to find the population info. I saw a government site once (Ciafactbook.gov or something) that is good for countries' political geography. Wikipedia is o.k but not the best; anyone can start an account & edit to change the info. So JC what site would you recommend to update my knowledge?

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

The southwestern USA will salute to Mexico in 25-50 years. It's time to tell every sorry white folk to pack their bags and move up north. Not to mention build a great wall along the Rockies.

Yeah I have heard about a food store now in Texas from Fox News right near the Mexican border that will accept Mexican Pesos as well as dollars for payment. You know that in those areas after an international soccer match, if Mexico beats the U.S you will hear pots and pans, bike horns etc. echoing the joyful sentiments of their Mexican victory.

Basically if you don't feel comfortable living around particular minority groups than there are still certain VERY white states you should migrate to up north. However, you may have to go pretty far north; Idaho, Montana or Maine anyone?

 

[P-NutLane]

I think we Texans have enough Grit left to fight back the Hordes. Thats IF the powers would let us.

 

[Don Wassall]

Here's a good email received today:


As a '66 graduate of a then all-white LSU it might be interesting to compare the quality of LSU's running backs thru the years. Jerry Stovall not only finished 2nd to Oregon's Terry Baker in the Hiesman in 62, he was an all-pro CORNERBACK for the St. Louis Cards. Same for Johnny Robinson, who was all SEC and 2nd team All-Amer. (IIRC) who went on to be an all-pro CORNERBACK for the KC Chiefs. Or take the 1965 Sugar Bowl which saw an all-white LSU (none of whose backs made it in the pros, IIRC) defeat a Syracuse team with the 1-2 punch of two future black all-pro backs; Hall of Fame Denver's Floyd Little and the Jet's Jim Nance at Fullback. Or take All-pro tight end Billy Truax who played for the Rams. And this just scratches the surface.&nbs p;

I also remember an all-white Florida team that finished in a tie for 5th in the SEC destroy a Rip Engle coached (his last game) Penn State team in the Gator Bowl in, I believe '63 or '64 which included several future black all-pros to include the Packer's Dave Robinson.

Where are these kinds of players today? To say that you're on to something here is an understatement.What really gives the lie to those who say whites can't cut it at the skill positions is the entry into the NBA of large numbers of foreign-born whites who start and star. With a similar population base to Europe+ Canada, Australia, etc, where are their white US equivalents that statistics alone say should be there? Is there something wrong with the water that US whites drink as opposed to their white European counterparts? "It is to laff", as Daffy would say...

 

[sport historian]

Here's a good email received today:


As a '66 graduate of a then all-white LSU it might be interesting to compare the quality of LSU's running backs thru the years. Jerry Stovall not only finished 2nd to Oregon's Terry Baker in the Hiesman in 62, he was an all-pro CORNERBACK for the St. Louis Cards. Same for Johnny Robinson, who was all SEC and 2nd team All-Amer. (IIRC) who went on to be an all-pro CORNERBACK for the KC Chiefs. Or take the 1965 Sugar Bowl which saw an all-white LSU (none of whose backs made it in the pros, IIRC) defeat a Syracuse team with the 1-2 punch of two future black all-pro backs; Hall of Fame Denver's Floyd Little and the Jet's Jim Nance at Fullback. Or take All-pro tight end Billy Truax who played for the Rams. And this just scratches the surface. &nbs p;   I also remember an all-white Florida team that finished in a tie for 5th in the SEC destroy a Rip Engle coached (his last game) Penn State team in the Gator Bowl in, I believe '63 or '64 which included several future black all-pros to include the Packer's Dave Robinson.Where are these kinds of players today? To say that you're on to something here is an understatement.What really gives the lie to those who say whites can't cut it at the skill positions is the entry into the NBA of large numbers of foreign-born whites who start and star. With a similar population base to Europe+ Canada, Australia, etc, where are their white US equivalents that statistics alone say should be there? Is there something wrong with the water that US whites drink as opposed to their white European counterparts? "It is to laff", as Daffy would say...

As members of this Forum know, I go back to around 1958 in observing football. Johnny Robinson and Jerry Stovall were safeties in pro football, not cornerbacks.

The 1965 Sugar Bowl received some national attention at the time because it was only the second time a team with black players had been invited. Pittsburgh in 1956 had been the first time. I don't recall Little and Nance doing that much. LSU won 13-10 and after the game both sides had nothing but praise for each other. By the way, Little (and Larry Csonka) gained big yardage against Tennessee in the Gator Bowl two years later, though Tennessee won.

Florida beat Penn State 17-7 in the Gator Bowl in December 1962. Penn State was a big favorite (Penn State had clobbered Georgia Tech 30-15 in the Gator Bowl the previous year), but Florida won in a game that wasn't as close as the score indicated.

I don't have exact numbers, but my memory is that during those years when an all-white SEC team met a team with blacks, the SEC team won most of the time. I recall Alabama over Penn State in the 1959 Liberty Bowl, LSU over Colorado in the 1962 Orange Bowl, Tennessee over Tulsa in the 1965 Bluebonnet Bowl, Alabama over Nebraska twice (1966 Orange and 1967 Sugar), and as previously mentioned Tennessee over Syracuse in the 1966 Gator Bowl.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Interesting stuff Sport Historian. Considering your in depth knowledge of the NFL going way back; I would really like to hear what your vote is for percentage of whites in a fair world. Your vote would hold a lot of weight with me.

 

[sport historian]

Interesting stuff Sport Historian. Considering your in depth knowledge of the NFL going way back; I would really like to hear what your vote is for percentage of whites in a fair world. Your vote would hold a lot of weight with me.

Off the top of my head, I would say 60-65%. I recall a columnist writing that the 1977-78 Los Angeles Rams were almost exactly 50-50 with one Mexican, placekicker Frank Corrall. The rest of the league was pretty close to that. In the early 1970's, high schools in the South that had been all-white gradually became "blacker" along with the public schools in general. This had a big effect on the SEC and spilled over into the NFL.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Not sure where the best place to find this kind of info for states to double check it; the government state websites are sometimes hard to navigate to find the population info. I saw a government site once (Ciafactbook.gov or something) that is good for countries' political geography. Wikipedia is o.k but not the best; anyone can start an account & edit to change the info. So JC what site would you recommend to update my knowledge?

well, if you don't want to look at more comprehensive governmental sites, again i suggest reading the info provided by Colonel Reb in this link, which shows the actual demographic breakdown of Arkansas schools by race in 2006-07. it shows the numbers quite plainly.

another link, found here, provides more recent demographics, from last year. both show that blacks make up about 28% of the school population in the state.

furthermore, the key point to this discussion is the school population, not the population of the state (or the nation for that matter) as a whole. only athletes enrolled in schools can play football. erego, those numbers are the ones that matter.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

JC, just so you know I think your Arkansas H.S thread is one of the best H.S threads we have ever had here on Caste Football. Kudos to Steve B. too for his great Texas H.S thread.

However, personally I like to compare "players" from the top teams in each state; which you certainly also did lots of (and a great job of) in your thread. I also look at the a sample of the top white skill position players via Maxpreps, Youtube and Rivals in certain states I pick and compare them to the black ones and see that the white ones are just as talented.

Comparing H.S teams certainly has some merit to it, but some of the nearly all black urban neighborhood teams aren't well coached (b/c as I said I think the best coaches usually take the top suburb jobs).

Most of the best H.S teams here in Jersey other than group one school groupings seem to be majority white with blacks mixed in here and there. When you get a team that has a slight black majority/ slight white minority; from my research there seems to often be problems along "racial lines" in the locker room with complaints for playing time. This seems to be the same problem in the NFL with some of the black players too like Terrell Owens and his crying about Witten getting too much glory. Maybe this is why the NFL tries to keep it around 25% white with whites "no threat" to play certain positions.

Most of the aforementioned slight black majority/ slight white minority teams usually don't do well either in H.S here in Jersey. The old style NFL of the 1st two Packer era Super Bowls was around 70-75% white no? I may have to ask Sport Historian that one to get the best answer.

Those racial numbers worked fine with disciplinarian coaches like Lombardi at the helm. With an increase in minorities in this country 80% realistically wouldn't happen and probably wouldn't be fair either. But maybe a 65-70% white NFL with disciplinarian, Tom Coughlin style, coaches that wouldn't put up with crybabies like Terrell Owens would work. I dream of that day.

Also of interest talking about NJ H.S football: The most productive tailbacks most years here in Jersey are still usually white, but the Rivals' blacks still get all the recruiting buzz here in Jersey; Joe Martinek (NJ's all-time leading rusher out of Hopatcong albeit it was in a smaller conference, but still the guy was amazing), Ray Van Peenan (Wayne Hills), Brian Toal (played as a running FB for top school Don Bosco) and currently Dan DeCicco (Wayne Hills also if I recall) Nick Gerst (Bergen Catholic) and Dillon Romain (also Don Bosco) were all under-recruited, forced to change positions at the next level or not recruited at all.

But I have noticed the H.S right near me which is usually a top 20 NJ school, which I will not name, (sorry guys don't want to disclose my exact location) and other schools too will often start a black RB and at least one black CB even on a vast majority white team.
This is very unfortunate that the stereotyping is in effect in H.S too.

The good news is the best RB the school near me had IMO in the last 10 years or so was a featured white FB who became the featured tailback. He ran for around 2,000 yards on almost 10 YPC if I recall and ran a sub 4.6 40 yard at one of the H.S combines as a senior. This player is the only white tailback they started in the last 10 years; this high school usually only has whites as running FBs. In other words he had to be real good to be a featured runner. However, he now starts at LB in the FBS.

See if you can figure out what H.S I'm talking about that I live near. Feel free to PM me if you do or to just ask.

 

[j41181]

Re-posted

66% White????

80% of the USA is WHITE!

USA 80% White

This data is as of July, 2008.

About 15% of the USA is Hispanic, of which 50-60% of this WHITE. Many Hispanics are white (Cameron Diaz, Charlie Sheen, Emilio Estevez, Salma Hayek, Andy Garcia, Christina Aguilera to mention).

66% may mean those of who are European American. That cultural group is declining (obvious reason), and in about 50 years, the White population will be pluralistic, it will neither be Euro or Latin/Hispanic, but white is white. It may not matter whether you speak English/Spanish, a Protestant/Catholic/Atheist, or a European/Latin/Hispanic.

People like Robert Redford, Paul Newman, Marilyn Monroe, and Michelle Pfieffer are certainly on the decline, but the US white population continues to increase (from White Hispanics). The reason why many Hispanics aren't considered white is because many don't salute to the US flag, and embrace American culture.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

66% White????

80% of the USA is WHITE!

USA 80% White

This data is as of July, 2008.

About 15% of the USA is Hispanic, of which 50-60% of this WHITE. Many Hispanics are white (Cameron Diaz, Charlie Sheen, Emilio Estevez, Salma Hayek, Andy Garcia, Christina Aguilera to mention).

66% may mean those of who are European American. That cultural group is declining (obvious reason), and in about 50 years, the White population will be pluralistic, it will neither be Euro or Latin/Hispanic, but white is white. It may not matter whether you speak English/Spanish, a Protestant/Catholic/Atheist, or a European/Latin/Hispanic.

People like Robert Redford, Paul Newman, Marilyn Monroe, and Michelle Pfieffer are certainly on the decline, but the US white population continues to increase (from White Hispanics). The reason why many Hispanics aren't considered white is because many don't salute to the US flag, and embrace American culture.

I heard 66% white directly from "FOX NEWS" almost a year ago reporting on the 2008 census. So they must have lumped all Hispanics into a separate category I guess this is where I am getting my false perceptions on what a "white state" is.

I would say most U.S Hispanics are not purely white they're part white; so you might consider many of them their own racial group. The Mexican immigration brings the biggest flooding of Hispanics into this country and most of them are part Indigenous. Cubans who have flooded Florida and Miami "percentage wise" are more of pure Spanish stock, but lots of them too have indigenous or even black heritage. Peurto Ricans are a fairly mixed race group. What about Dominicans? They are considered "Hispanic" and are virtually never white.

I am new to this area and am much more familiar with Canadian demographics. I only know what I heard on Fox News, but it was also reported that by 2050, GET THIS, whites would "not be the Majority" of America. So they must be counting Hispanics as an entirely different group.

I hear that on many job applications in Jersey or College entrance applications they will often ask for your race (which is used for discriminatory purposes) and it will give two choices for Hispanic of "non-white" or "white" Hispanic.

This is according to Wikipedia, unfortunately it is outdated and from the 2000 census:

White Hispanics by National Origin, 2000 Census
Hispanic Origin GroupWhite Population Percentage Mexican&nbsp ;; 9,870,433&n bsp; &n bsp;47.3
Puerto Rican & nbsp; 1,605,049&nbs p; &nbs p; 47.2
Cuban & nbsp; 1 ,060,854 &nbs p; 85.0; Dominican&n bsp; &nb sp; 180,856&nbsp ;;&nbs p;;22.7
Central American 735,879&nbsp ;;&nbs p;;40.4
South American &nbs p; 838,270&nb sp; &nb sp; 59.6
"Other Hispanic" 2,534,786 &nb sp; 44.8

Almost every Mexican I've seen around here in Jersey doesn't look too white to me (they are often shorter and Native looking and look very different than when I was in Spain; I must sound like a characature of a Texan talking here: "them ain't too Spanish looking to me y'all" just kidding here.). So 47.3% of the Mexican population reported being white in 2000, it likely depends on what criteria they consider white. It's probably 47.3% consider themselves half white or more.

 

[dwid]

what are the demographics of Canada? I want to coach football somewhere at a high school level, maybe where they are more likely to give all players a chance based on ability

 

[TorontoArgos]

what are the demographics of Canada? I want to coach football somewhere at a high school level, maybe where they are more likely to give all players a chance based on ability

Largely depends on the city/area. But as a country:

84% White
4% Indian
4% Chinese
4% Native
3% Black

The rest are all 1% or less with the highest being Filipino, Latino, and Arab.