Homosexual football player and evolution discussion

[Tom Iron]

This is pretty funny.

Welcome to Hell - YouTube


Rowan Atikinson is a very funny guy. I hope it comes through.


Tom Iron...

 

[Bk21]

If the Bible is true, I'm in good shape and there's going to be alot of people in trouble, but if it's not then according to what most evolutionist believe I'll just die and that's it. I'm good either way. Evolutionists are gambling with their existence.

Sorry mate but that's one hell of a thing to say! just to be on the safe side is not putting religion in good shape isn't it? I'm sure you value christianity more than that!
going from that argument, you're in bad shape and would be gambling with your existence if Islam was the word of God, or the Sikhism or one of the thousands of other religions! you're an "atheist of Allah" for example, and an atheist of Zeus and Thor and wathever, the thing is I beleive in one less God than you do.. [/QUOTE]

Now I believe in science, but unlike evolutionists, I believe God created everything. The Bible clearly states there is a creator and most will worship created things other than a creator.

I don't quite understand why religious ppl feel that evolution is directed directly against them (it happens that it does not state exactly what the bible or the quran say).. but a lot of fully devoted christians take the Adam and Eve story as a metaphore with a lesson (good and evil and temptation) but don't think that it's EXACTLY how the creation of humans started! I already stated that the Vatican accepted the evolution (you would agree that if the evidence wasn't that good, the Vatican would've never agreed), a lot of priests and archbishops are even promoting evolution between christians (without feeling the need to get rid of God for that)

the main christian-science regarding evolution, is what is called intelligent design (sure you heard of it), which says that the evolution certainly occured, but UNDER GOD'S SUPERVISION, and some "difficult" parts of evolution were shaped by an intelligent being til it's actual form. This is for example an intelligent way to see things, and is certainly reconciliating evolution and christianity.

I've read so much about evolution, the amount of evidence is tremendous and touches multiple fields of science, and thousands of scientists around the world , not all connected altogether (as a former beleiver, my first reaction was trying to disprove every proof I get or I read).. you can witness evolution in action in "actual time" for example, not everything happened "in millions of years"; you can "follow geologically" the evolution of this or that animal, you can check the fossil record (and understand the myth of "missing link" which BTW means nothing), the genetic sequencing of the genome gives solid evidence to evolution (the odds AGAINST evolution in some cases are close to zero) etc etc..

Again, all of this deserves a topic (and time), which I'll start in 10 days or so

 

[Wes Woodhead]

I don't quite understand why religious ppl feel that evolution is directed directly against them

Maybe its because the atheist/evolutionists are so nasty toward Christianity. For example, you have responded to my posts in a very childlike, immature manner. Scoffing at the Bible while you sit up on your high horse of pure wisdom, and ultimate knowledge. If you go back and look youll see that Ive made no religious claim. There was no reason to respond to the posts I made with Bible mockery. Ive went out of my way to not post religiously here on CF, but still all the atheist can do is mock, and scoff at Christians, and pat himself on the back for being so much more intelligent/evolved than all the religious wingnuts that dont agree with his lunacy. I dont accept the flawed hypothesis of evolutionism because its silly. Not because of what the Bible says, or dont say. If you go back and read this whole thread you will see why "religious" people think evolutionism is directed directly against them. Its because it is. Even a non religious post gets responded to with mocking of the Bible.

 

[frederic38]

common sense vs science:

In a paper widely trumpeted and due for release in book form, Akhil Bakshi, the leader of a recent major scientific expedition supported by India’s prime minister, claims that “*******”, “Caucasian” and “Mongoloid” peoples are not only separate races but separate species, having evolved on different continents. Responding to the claims — developed while Bakshi led the Gondwanaland expedition from India to South Africa — Professor Lee Berger, a leading palaeoanthropologist at the University of the Witwatersrand, immediately insisted that, there were no fundamental differences between the races and that all humans had the same genetic and physical roots in Africa.

The prevalent scientific theory of modern humans — the “Out of Africa” model — is that they left Africa just 55000 years ago and replaced the last remnants of other ancient hominids living in Europe, Asia and elsewhere.

The old biological racial distinctions of “Caucasian”, “*******” and “Mongoloid” have recently been abandoned by mainstream scientists — removed, for instance, from the US National Library of Medicine in 2003.

http://www.articlesafari.com/2010/09/whites-asians-did-not-come-from-africa/

europeans used to believe that men were created different, they didn't believe in evolution and didn't believe that "there were no fundamental diferences between the races"

Julian then discusses how the Greeks view the gods as being the delegates of the creator God, each responsible for caring for different nations, cities, and races of men (115D), which explains why the character and customs of men are so different (131C). He mocks the idea that a literal interpretation of the story of the Tower of Babel can adequately explain why men differ so greatly, saying that it does not explain why men have different morals or laws or why they have such marked physical differences (138A). Instead, he believes, different gods responsible for different races and nations are responsible for mankind’s differences (143A). The God of Moses does exist, but only as an inferior to the God of All (148B). Julian expounds on this idea, asking why, if the Jewish God is the only god, the Jews have not accomplished as much as other races, such as the Greeks or Romans (178A), and why the Jews have been subjugated by so many other races (213A).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libri_tres_contra_Galileos

 

[Carolina Speed]

Maybe its because the atheist/evolutionists are so nasty toward Christianity. For example, you have responded to my posts in a very childlike, immature manner. Scoffing at the Bible while you sit up on your high horse of pure wisdom, and ultimate knowledge. If you go back and look youll see that Ive made no religious claim. There was no reason to respond to the posts I made with Bible mockery. Ive went out of my way to not post religiously here on CF, but still all the atheist can do is mock, and scoff at Christians, and pat himself on the back for being so much more intelligent/evolved than all the religious wingnuts that dont agree with his lunacy. I dont accept the flawed hypothesis of evolutionism because its silly. Not because of what the Bible says, or dont say. If you go back and read this whole thread you will see why "religious" people think evolutionism is directed directly against them. Its because it is. Even a non religious post gets responded to with mocking of the Bible.

Exactly, although he, WW, sounds as if he doesn't believe in evolution or creation, he makes a very true statement. I was going to post this earlier, but ran out of time, It's not, as you say religious people, again, I don't consider Christianity Religion, feel you're neccessarily against us, evolutionists are totally against the idea of a Creator. WHY? Creation can't even be taught in school, but yet children have to listen to a theory of what happened billions and billions and billions and billions of years ago. Do you really know exactly what happened that long ago? REALLY? How do you know for sure?

Correct, WW, Bk21 brought religion into this of which he as with most evolutionists when asked if they know anything about Religion or Chrstianity or Creation, they typically do not.

Why are atheists and evolutionists like this toward a man (Jesus), whether you believe he was God or not, that claimed he died (crucified) for our transgressions. Who else would do something like this? Jesus will not push himself on anyone! Why not just say, I don't believe, and go on.

 

[jaxvid]

Creation can't even be taught in school, but yet children have to listen to a theory of what happened billions and billions and billions and billions of years ago. Do you really know exactly what happened that long ago? REALLY? How do you know for sure? .

Creationism shouldn't be taught in public schools. It's a religious belief. There is very little study or scholorship behind it. Creationism 101 class would last 1 day, long enough to go over the chapter in the bible that covers it.

There is a legitimate science of researching fossil records, how animal species seem to have developed from each other, and examples of natural selection at work. But to say that because certain parts of the wide ranging theory of evolution have solid science and research behind them means that the whole range of the development of life on earth and elsewhere is completely explained by the theory is absurd.

Anyone with knowledge of the evolution theory understands there are gaps in the knowledge, some of them formidable. And the way that life itself began is still very much in doubt, except among the true believers of evolution who rival religious fanatics in their zeal to keep the faith.

 

[Matra2]

common sense vs science:


http://www.articlesafari.com/2010/09/whites-asians-did-not-come-from-africa/

europeans used to believe that men were created different, they didn't believe in evolution and didn't believe that "there were no fundamental diferences between the races"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libri_tres_contra_Galileos

That's entirely due to political power, not science. Virtually everybody believes in racial differences...in private. In the mainstream media medical reports regularly refer to genetic differences. There seems to be a rule that you can mention genetic differences between ethnic groups and races when referring to diseases, medical research, and calls for donors, but if you do so in any other sphere you will be destroyed by the ruling class.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Hell and the Devil are Medieval inventions.

"If the Devil does not exist, and therefore man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness"

Dostoyevsky

 

[DixieDestroyer]

:director: Attention!....all commies, s0d0m1te advocates, atheists and other assorted heathen, bear ye witness unto knowledge (& save thy souls from eternal damnation)....

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2007/mar/07032003

 

[Carolina Speed]

:director: Attention!....all commies, s0d0m1te advocates, atheists and other assorted heathen, bear ye witness unto knowledge (& save thy souls from eternal damnation)....

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2007/mar/07032003

Good stuff Dixie.

 

[jaxvid]

Renamed the thread to better match the change in discussion.

 

[Bk21]

Maybe its because the atheist/evolutionists are so nasty toward Christianity. For example, you have responded to my posts in a very childlike, immature manner. Scoffing at the Bible while you sit up on your high horse of pure wisdom, and ultimate knowledge. If you go back and look youll see that Ive made no religious claim. There was no reason to respond to the posts I made with Bible mockery. Ive went out of my way to not post religiously here on CF, but still all the atheist can do is mock, and scoff at Christians, and pat himself on the back for being so much more intelligent/evolved than all the religious wingnuts that dont agree with his lunacy. I dont accept the flawed hypothesis of evolutionism because its silly. Not because of what the Bible says, or dont say. If you go back and read this whole thread you will see why "religious" people think evolutionism is directed directly against them. Its because it is. Even a non religious post gets responded to with mocking of the Bible.

You missed entirely my point, I said EVOLUTION not evolutionnists! I argued that some christians are OK with Evolution, and mentionned the "intelligent design" option, but this doesn't seem to interest anyone (here) but a lot of christians out there

as for bible mockery, all what I can say is bible, christianity and religion are not immune of mockery/jokes/commentaries-even childish commentaries and low jokes! we do this in all matters of everyday life, we mock politicians, public personnalities, restaurants, movies.. religion is not in a separate case

 

[Bk21]

:director: Attention!....all commies, s0d0m1te advocates, atheists and other assorted heathen, bear ye witness unto knowledge (& save thy souls from eternal damnation)....

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution Hoax/evolution_the_big_hoax.htm

http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2007/mar/07032003

Thanks a lot for these links,

I skimmed the first link quickly because it's HUGE and different answers need to be brought for each assertion, but there is hundreds of them: some are of deep ignorance (like why there's still monkeys out there OR there is no monkey turning into humans in front our very eyes, etc etc..)- some proofs are ONLY bible quotes! (evolution is false because god says , etc..), a lot stops evolution at the time of "Darwin" like if other findings didn't occur afterwards, etc etc..
I don't say I'm dismissing the whole site with two phrases, but like I said, you can post "one argument at a time", not a link with hundreds of articles at the same time (you can't honestly say that you read all of it)

as for the second link, it's a compilation of studies against the genetic character of homosexuality:
the compilation is indeed selective, as the CWFA are christian activist women, who want to prove that homosexuality is not hereditary (and they are partly right- but omitting to give credit to any scientific study that support any genetic component to homosexuality)- and that leeds us to the 3rd article (which is the best link you could post, I'll explain why)

 

[Bk21]

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2007/mar/07032003

I'm reposting the link for those who didn't read it yet.

“Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired,” Concludes Head of The Human Genome Project.


(...)
Dr. Collins succinctly reviewed the research on homosexuality and offers the following:

"An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence from twin studies does in fact support the conclusion that heritable factors play a role in male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations [emphasis added]."
(...)
Regarding the contributions of genetics to areas such as homosexuality, Dr. Collins concluded, "Yes, we have all been dealt a particular set of cards, and the cards will eventually be revealed. But how we play the hand is up to us."


this more or less sums it all: there is a hereditary component in homosexuality (genetic influence) but certainly you need a melting pot of social/physchological/educational/etc causes to be homosexual.
I already stated that homosexuality was not "Purely Genetic" but I couldn't put a percentage on hereditary influence.


BUT, this is not why I hightlighted this particular article, it's because of its Author: Dr. Francis COLLINS

A great man who was named at the head of the HUMAN GENOME PROJECT. (one of the most prestigious projects in genetics)
a particular characteristic of Collins is that he is a devoted christian, a relentless defender of the bible (one of the most talented in fact) - I'm sorry to post a wikipedia page but it gives an idea about the guy;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins

founder and president of the BioLogos Foundation, an organization which promotes discourse on the relationship between science and religion and advocates the perspective that belief in Christianity can be reconciled with acceptance of evolution and science.

In 2009 Pope Benedict XVI appointed Collins to thePontifical Academy of Sciences.

Collins considers scientific discoveries an "opportunity to worship". In his book Collins rejects Young Earth creationism and intelligent design. His own belief is theistic evolution or evolutionary creation which he prefers to term BioLogos


Another link of an interview with Dr. Collins: (plz take the time to read)

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/january/32.62.html

this man should be an inspiration for all christians around the world (and in America in particular), a great scientist and -for the anecdote- a friend of the leading atheist and scientist Richard Dawkins..

I propose now to those who are interested to buy his book (it is definitely my next purchase) The language of God (a used one costs 0.99 cents) gonna command immediately

http://www.amazon.com/The-Language-God-Scientist-Presents/dp/0743286391

book review
Does science necessarily undermine faith in God? Or could it actually support faith? Beyond the flashpoint debates over the teaching of evolution, or stem-cell research, most of us struggle with contradictions concerning life's ultimate question. We know that accidents happen, but we believe we are on earth for a reason. Until now, most scientists have argued that science and faith occupy distinct arenas. Francis Collins, a former atheist as a science student who converted to faith as he became a doctor, is about to change that. Collins's faith in God has been confirmed and enhanced by the revolutionary discoveries in biology that he has helped to oversee. He has absorbed the arguments for atheism of many scientists and pundits, and he can refute them. Darwinian evolution occurs, yet, as he explains, it cannot fully explain human nature - evolution can and must be directed by God. He offers an inspiring tour of the human genome to show the miraculous nature of God's instruction book. Sure to be compared with C.S. Lewis's MERE CHRISTIANITY, this is a stunning document, whether you are a believer, a seeker, or an atheist.

for those who wants another reading I suggest "the greatest show on earth" Dawkins. I already read it, it's an all public excellent book.

 

[Wes Woodhead]

I certainly agree that science does not under mind faith in God/Deity/Higher power. The thing is that evolutionism has nothing to do with science. Its just a silly flawed hypotheses which shoulda been thrown out lifetimes ago, but is clung to by those who self righteously wish to believe they are smarter/further evolved than others.

 

[Bk21]

I certainly agree that science does not under mind faith in God/Deity/Higher power. The thing is that evolutionism has nothing to do with science. Its just a silly flawed hypotheses which shoulda been thrown out lifetimes ago, but is clung to by those who self righteously wish to believe they are smarter/further evolved than others.

I strongly urge you to read my last post (with the links) and tell me what you think

 

[Wes Woodhead]

Of course I read the post, and the links. I already knew all about Dr. Collins. Hes a very intelligent man trying to cling self righteously to his non Christian beliefs (evolutionism) despite the evidence. I wouldnt trust anyone who claims to be a "friend" of a snake like Dick Dawkins.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I certainly agree that science does not under mind faith in God/Deity/Higher power. The thing is that evolutionism has nothing to do with science. Its just a silly flawed hypotheses which shoulda been thrown out lifetimes ago, but is clung to by those who self righteously wish to believe they are smarter/further evolved than others.

Agreed, I think most who believe in a creator know science doesn't do this, but as you say WW, the evolution crowd sometimes comes off as omniscient and completely disagrees that a higher power could have created all that we see. How can flawed human beings ever know how our existence came about? To me it takes more faith to believe all existence just happened and came from nothing than to believe it was created by God.

Bk21, you're one of the few people of evolution who try to answer a creationists question. Why are most evolutionists so anti- God or anti-creation?

 

[Bk21]

Bk21, you're one of the few people of evolution who try to answer a creationists question. Why are most evolutionists so anti-God or anti-creation?

@Carolina S + W.W : Collins is a great man and a great scientist, devoted christian, and one of the most intelligent persons you can read or listen to: He wrote a book that reconciliates religion and evolution (and science in general), but it seems that IT DOESNT INTEREST anybody, not even by curiosity!
the main answers I'm getting here are just "reactions" like evolution is a religion, a hoax, no evidence etc.. but it seems nobody has ever took time to seriously to go and understand a general view of this theory (correct me if i'm wrong), and take a look on the nature of the evidence that it proposes.. I think it's easy and somehow "natural" to deny it when you get the external idea; but impossible to deny once looking more deeply.

back to your questions: why evolutionists are so anti-God or anti-Creation: Evolution is not necessarily anti-creation, and could be easily seen as "a way to create", a splendid way even. suppose that evolution is "difficult to occur", is it difficult to GOD to proceed so? now why not taking THAT way of creation into consideration? and what's then the alternative to that way of creation?
when evolution is opposed to Creationism, it is not to be mistook for Creation: creationism is considering ALL animals and living beings created instantly to their ACTUAL FORM - but it does not signify that NO CREATION HAPPENED AT ALL.
now I don't want to convert any of you to atheism (and you wouldn't), I understand the need for god (I don't feel the need) - but it's all human nature to make other ppl adhere to what you think, missionaries did it long time ago, jeovah witnesses are doing it everyday, priests, preacher and on the other hand, atheists, agnostics, etc..

1-Now If anybody is interested in the book of Collins, I'll buy it, and can send it to any of you guys, who re-send it to another member and so on.

2-I said earlier that Dr. Collins worked on the human genome project - I will post later just one ascertainment that resulted from his (and others) work

 

[Wes Woodhead]

My goodness trying to discuss the flawed hypotheses of evolutionism with an atheist is like playing chess with a chicken. They knock over all the pieces, crap all over the chess board, and then go back to the coop and claim the human isnt as smart/evolved as them.

 

[Bk21]

My goodness trying to discuss the flawed hypotheses of evolutionism with an atheist is like playing chess with a chicken. They knock over all the pieces, crap all over the chess board, and then go back to the coop and claim the human isnt as smart/evolved as them.

I thought that you had an epiphany with this metaphore, until I saw it flooding the internet on every other debate.

Some here wants to argue, if you just want to say that Mister WW won't argue a flawed hypothesis, OK point taken, leave some room for those who want.

 

[jaxvid]

My goodness trying to discuss the flawed hypotheses of evolutionism with an atheist is like playing chess with a chicken. They knock over all the pieces, crap all over the chess board, and then go back to the coop and claim the human isnt as smart/evolved as them.

I think you're being truculent on this issue with BK21. He's making an attempt to provide information to support his viewpoint. If you don't want to address his viewpoint just say so and leave it at that.

 

[Wes Woodhead]

REAL Science has verified Creation because of the properties of the DNA code. Information stored and retrieved with algorithms organized to conform to linguistics law. DNA contains the human language properties of punctuation, syntax, and grammar. Nature has no potential to produce these properties. They're abstract constructs of mind which verifies all life was designed/created. A designer is the only potential answer for this.

Now, as for who, or what that designer is is up for debate, but no designer is impossible. Aliens, Jesus, Allah, Budda, the flying pink spaghetti monster are all better reasons than no designer whatsoever! Thats just dishonest, and silly! So is the claim that Ive been "truculent". If anyone has been "truculent" in this thread its the proud atheists. Atheism is the most extreme form of self righteousness. To claim to be an atheist is to claim to have absolute knowledge of everything! Agnostic is a respectable position, but atheism is not.

 

[SchaafC]

For a bunch of people who are aware of how Jewish propaganda works. It's shocking to see how many of you still fall for the biggest one of all. The Jewish Carpenter.

 

[SchaafC]

[video=youtube;oVZnwZdh-iM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVZnwZdh-iM&feature=related[/video]