Hitler and the invasion of Poland

[referendum]

In discussing the advent of World War Two, revisionists seek to shift blame away from Nazi Germany and unto various other forces, with an assumption that Hitler was practically forced to invade Poland, or maneuvered into it. It is true that Germany had valid grievances against Poland, such as Polish refusal to tolerate a German annexation of Danzig away from its League of Nations Free State status, plus the whole existence of the Polish corridor meant that the German region of East Prussia was cut off from the rest of Germany. In addition, and this is a demand that Hitler didn't bring up in the pre-war era, the Posen/Poznan region of West Prussia had been awarded to Poland without any plebiscite or reference to the popular will in that region (though Poland had solid demographic claims to much of that area).
Still, all of these issues did not represent life or death issues for Germany, and if Hitler truly wanted peace, he could have settled for more than half a loaf, and been satisfied that the western powers, had at least allowed Germany 1) the regaining of the Saarland after a League of Nations adminstered plebiscite, 2)the annexation of Austria, 3) the annexation of the German speaking Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia, 4) allied toleration of the German de facto takeover of Czech Bohemia and Moravia and German connivance in the establishment of a pro-German independent Slovakia, and 5) the regaining of Memel (Klaipeda in Lithuanian) from Lithuania. These five measures together represented so much more than the small scale territorial demands Hitler had with Poland, if in fact they were his true demands. Basically Germany had won not just half a loaf, but pretty much the whole loaf minus the crusts and a few end pieces. From this vantage point, Germany's attack on Poland was a reckless gamble in which Hitler wagered Europe and its future over very small stakes. My argument here is geared toward those who believe that Hitler in fact would have been content with moderate gains, and in fact did not have a desire to establish a vast German dominated empire. If such an empire was in fact the goal, the invasion makes sense, but I'd like to hear from those who feel that Hitler didn't have such goals.

 

[Charles Martel]

Goring actually tried to persuade Hitler to not invade Poland, but Ribbentrop was urging him to go ahead with it.

Hitler should have listened to Goring, and also to his best military leaders such as Von Bock.

I don't like Hitler. He made some bad decisions and placed too little value on human life. I believe he was instrumental in the decline of the white race in the 20th century - too many of the bravest and best white men died in Hitler's war, and countries such as Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc were devastated. The UK was virtually bankrupt as a result of WW II.

 

[The Hock]

Hitler was very clear in that book he wrote that he thought Germany needed to expand east. Especially into Russia. Poland was between Germany and Russia. I don't think there was any doubt in his mind that Poland needed to be dealt with before the Russian campaign could begin.

 

[Old Scratch]

Hitler was very clear in that book he wrote that he thought Germany needed to expand east. Especially into Russia. Poland was between Germany and Russia. I don't think there was any doubt in his mind that Poland needed to be dealt with before the Russian campaign could begin.

He wanted to ally with Poland against the USSR. The Polish military junta wouldn't have it, and preferred a war with Germany, with Poland being backed by the UK. They tried to goad Germany into attacking them, planning to hold out long enough so that Britain could attack Germany. The only evidence of the Gleiwitz incident being "staged" comes from the Nuremberg trials which utilized torture to obtain their confessions, before that it was never questioned as an authentic attack. The Polish also legitimately attacked Germans living within the Polish borders. They didn't foresee Germany making an alliance with USSR.

Poland wasn't an innocent nation that dindu nuffin, they partook in the partitioning of Czechoslovakia.

Nazi Germany isn't the only nation that ever tried to expand or wage war. Why they get so much heat when Britain did far worse to the Boers just 30-40 years previous is beyond me. It's like everyone hating the USA for having black slaves like we invented slavery, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, or as if we had more than a tiny fraction of the black slaves in the world.

The Allies abandoned Poland to the USSR after the war anyway, and half of Europe. That wasn't the real reason for conflict with Germany.

 

[The Hock]

So it was actually Germany who was the innocent nation that dindu nuffin till the Poles goaded them into a war.

You learn something every day.

 

[referendum]

As late as January 1939 Hitler had very positive words to say about Poland to its foreign minister, Joseph Beck, in their last meeting. He said that every Polish division stationed on its eastern border with the Soviets represented one less German division that had to be dedicated to a potential war with the Soviets. I believe that in the right circumstances Hitler would have liked to have a reduced Poland as an ally in either a defensive or an offensive war against the Soviets, sort of like a giant version of Germany's real life Slavic ally, Slovakia.
On further aspect of the tragedy to come was that at the time Poland extended far to the east, taking in a big chunk of what is now Western Ukraine and Western Belarus. Inter war Poland in effect was shielding those populations from the Soviets, and tragically this area would be taken by the Soviets in their partition of Poland, together with Germany, in Sept. 1939.
All of this makes the German invasion all the more unfortunate, as it played into the hands of the Soviets.

 

[Old Scratch]

So it was actually Germany who was the innocent nation that dindu nuffin till the Poles goaded them into a war.

You learn something every day.

No. Hitler clearly wanted to expand. Germany's thinkers developed and expounded on the idea of geopolitics, and "lebensraum" which they were going to take from the USSR. However Germany did not want war with Poland and they did not want war with the UK. Germany wanted to ally with Poland in anti Communist coalition but Poland wouldn't bite because they thought Germany was the easier and juicier prize, and didn't want to give up Danzig, nor did they want to give Germany access into East Prussia.

Nazi Germany weren't savage monsters that just wanted to conquer the world, and Poland, UK etc weren't harmless innocents that were attacked by the evil Nazis.

History is far more nuanced than Germany/Nazis/Hitler = evil, everyone else = the good guys.

 

[Freethinker]

History is far more nuanced than Germany/Nazis/Hitler = evil, everyone else = the good guys.

I think it's import to remember that history is never black and white. There are rarely ever truly "good guys" and "bad guys". Just different interests and perspectives that each side thought was "right" at the time. I think this is important to remember when discussing or analyzing any historical event.

I'm sorry I don't have anything to add to the Germany invading Poland discussion but I am enjoying the conversation. I'm open minded to both sides and trying to learn more on the subject.

 

[werewolf]

Good posts, Old Scratch. It was Poland that was brutally occupying Germany, not the other way around. Note the bloody Blomberg massacre of German civilians in Poland in 1939. Hitler had been trying to ally with Poland and get them into the Anti-Commintern Pact, but the militaristic Polish government - Hey, they had the best cavalry in the world! - egged on by the rulers of Britain and France, refused to even negotiate.

Horrible tragedy, all those wars and mass murders in the twentieth century. All totally unnecessary and completely manipulated. The destruction of the white race. They got all the white people of the world slaughtering each other, and the Bolsheviks destroyed the best blood in Russia and eastern Europe. Before 1914 - even after the destruction of the best blood in France in the 18th century, and in America in the 19th, the White race unquestionably ruled the world. That ended in 1945, Year Zero.

 

[celticdb15]

Good posts, Old Scratch. It was Poland that was brutally occupying Germany, not the other way around. Note the bloody Blomberg massacre of German civilians in Poland in 1939. Hitler had been trying to ally with Poland and get them into the Anti-Commintern Pact, but the militaristic Polish government - Hey, they had the best cavalry in the world! - egged on by the rulers of Britain and France, refused to even negotiate.

Horrible tragedy, all those wars and mass murders in the twentieth century. All totally unnecessary and completely manipulated. The destruction of the white race. They got all the white people of the world slaughtering each other, and the Bolsheviks destroyed the best blood in Russia and eastern Europe. Before 1914 - even after the destruction of the best blood in France in the 18th century, and in America in the 19th, the White race unquestionably ruled the world. That ended in 1945, Year Zero.

Great post I think I'll refference this next time I hear some lib tard talk About white privilege.

 

[Rebajlo]

In addition, and this is a demand that Hitler didn't bring up in the pre-war era, the Posen/Poznan region of West Prussia had been awarded to Poland without any plebiscite or reference to the popular will in that region (though Poland had solid demographic claims to much of that area).

referendum -

Let's just place the post-WW1 demographics of the region You mentioned into historical context. At the conclusion of the Napoleonic wars (1815) about 80% of the Prussian-controlled Grand Duchy of Poznan's 800,000 population was Polish. The aforementioned date is significant as it falls a century before the outbreak of The Great War. Also keep in mind that Poznan came under Prussian control in 1793 as a result of the Second Partition of Poland.

During the nineteenth century the Prussians placed great emphasis upon the settlement of Germans in their Partition-acquired Polish territories. This was coupled with increasing limits on the use of the Polish language in the fields of education and administration.

Following the unification of Germany in 1871 Bismarck embarked upon a series of policies whose aim was the permanent destruction of Polish identity within these German-controlled lands. A particularly intense version of Kulturkampf was unleashed in the German partition. An 1872 ministerial decree made German compulsory in all state schools (with the exception of religious instruction). You may all be interested to learn that Polish was banned as a "foreign language" option and could not even be used as a medium for teaching Polish children the German tongue. German teachers were offered special financial payments known as Ostmarkenzulagen as an incentive to relocate to Polish lands. In 1876 German was made compulsory in all courts and government offices.

In 1886 Bismarck established the Prussian Colonisation Commission (Koniglich Preussische Ansiedlungskommission in den Provinzen Westpreussen und Posen) in an effort to oust Poles from the land and replace them with German settlers. This essentially comprised a fund to buy out Polish-owned estates.

The German Society for the Eastern Marches (Deutscher Ostmarkenverein) was formed in Poznan in 1894 (nota bene, only twenty years prior to 1914). Among Poles it was referred to as the Hakata (HKT - an acronym derived from the surnames of its founders: Hansemann, Kennemann, Tiedemann) and its "mission" was to strengthen German "national identity" and economic power in the Province of Poznan. In other words, it was an anti-Polish organisation whose sole aim was to dispossess Polish landowners.

It is important to emphasise that elements of the Hakata were still very much present and active in interwar Poland while the NSDAP established a successor organisation in 1934, known as the Union of the German East (Bund Deutscher Osten).

In the final decades before the First World War, Ostmarkenzulagen-style incentives were extended to any German official who would serve in Poland. As a consequence, Poznan "boasted" the highest percentage of government employees of any city in the German Empire.

Now, ask yourself the following question: if all of these "Germanising" initiatives had to be implemented during the four decades prior to 1914 can the area have been as overwhelmingly German as "pro-Hitler revisionists" would like everyone to believe? Seriously...

It was Poland that was brutally occupying Germany, not the other way around. Note the bloody Blomberg massacre of German civilians in Poland in 1939.

Oh, really? You do realise that this territory - which "apologists" like you revel in referring to as "eternally German" - was gradually annexed by Prussia over the course of the three partitions of Poland (1772, 1793, 1795) don't you? I know you'll predictably dismiss everything I've already posted above as scurrilously poisonous anti-German vitriol but the fact remains that in 1815 Germans formed no more than 20% of the Duchy of Poznan's population. Despite the manifold efforts undertaken to systematically Germanise the region over the next century, Poles still constituted just over 60% of the area's population prior to the First World War.

By the way, if one travels less than 50 km ENE of Poznan one arrives at the city of Gniezno - which just happens to be the original capital of a state called Poland. It's funny how life's just one long learning experience, isn't it? Now, please enlighten me: who was occupying whose territory?

In the aftermath of the First World War the German population - which had enthusiastically supported trans-generational anti-Polish policies just a few years earlier and had treated Poles with open contempt - now magically expected those Poles to simply forget all of this and automatically treat them as respected equals. No, not an atom of hypocrisy there. To top things off, this "German minority" was openly hostile to Poland. Many banded together in quasi-military organisations such as the Selbstschutz and made no secret of their desire for an expeditious return to a Germany in which Poles would be repressed once again. Strangely enough, "revisionists" never mention the Selbstschutz's part in stirring up violence during the interwar period and their active role in the early stages of the Second World War...

However Germany did not want war with Poland and they did not want war with the UK. Germany wanted to ally with Poland in anti Communist coalition but Poland wouldn't bite because they thought Germany was the easier and juicier prize, and didn't want to give up Danzig, nor did they want to give Germany access into East Prussia.

If you believe that Hitler countenanced the long-term existence of an independent Poland - which he and the majority of Germans viewed as an insulting, unnatural aberration - then good luck to you. Any fool can see that given the constant agitation of resurrected Poland's "German minority" and Hitler's obsession with regaining territories lost after 1918 a German invasion was inevitable - regardless of whether the two countries had entered into that oft-quoted notional anti-USSR alliance or not. It was simply a matter of time. The territories immediately annexed by Hitler in 1939 extended beyond the lines of the German-Russian border of 1914, which proves that his rhetoric about merely wishing to reoccupy "German" land was - surprise, surprise - pure bollocks.

Almost eighty years later you still fulminate about the ethnic conflicts which dominated the 1920s and 1930s in the wake of the Treaty of Versailles. Just imagine the atmosphere of mutual suspicion and perceived injustice prevalent at the time and things may become clearer...

but the militaristic Polish government - Hey, they had the best cavalry in the world!

Haw! Haw! Awfully witty. Come on - give us a few of your "dumb Polack" jokes. Perhaps you believe those myths about Polish cavalrymen splintering their lances on tanks and other such rot. Say, you are aware that your beloved Wehrmacht likewise employed cavalry in 1939, are you not..?

The only evidence of the Gleiwitz incident being "staged" comes from the Nuremberg trials which utilized torture to obtain their confessions, before that it was never questioned as an authentic attack.

Well, I guess the conclusion of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact nine days prior to the opening of hostilities, complete with its projected partition of Poland in partnership with the oh-so-hated Soviets illustrated Hitler's munificent goodwill. Hang on, perhaps that was also a nefarious piece of anti-German propaganda masterminded by those sneaky Polish agents. You know, the same geezers who must have attacked the railway station at Mosty six days prior to September 1 and bombed the station at Tarnow. Isn't it peculiar that fellows who see "false flags" absolutely everywhere look at the Gliwice (Gleiwitz, if you will...) Incident and say "yup, those perennially genocidal Poles who've been expanding into German territory for centuries did it - nothing dodgy going on here..."

By the way, any opinions about Generalplan Ost? How about the long list of Sonderaktion operations conducted as part of the wider Intelliganzaktion ("elimination" of the Polish intelligentsia) strategy? Yes? No? I'll wager you'd have just loved to see those inconveniently troublesome Poles "expunged". But not all of those subhuman Polacks should have been exterminated though, eh? Well, at least not straight away. After all, some Arbeitvolk slave labour would certainly come in handy, wouldn't it?

History is far more nuanced than Germany/Nazis/Hitler = evil, everyone else = the good guys

Yes, history certainly is far more nuanced than most people believe. In this case, however, you appear to believe that everything is etched in clearly contrasting black and white. The concept of lebensraum is perfectly acceptable - if the said lebensraum is for Germans. The Germans - particularly your idol Hitler - "dindu nuffin". Congratulations on such exemplary objectivity. Blokes like you form the obverse of the debased intellectual specie passed (so to speak...) by the fanatically self-righteous leftists whose one-eyed "scholarship" you delight in deriding. Fall Weiss, indeed...

Let me conclude by saying this: nothing drives a railway spike into the arse of a pro-White website or organisation quite like open admiration for Hitler and attempts to justify Nazi Germany's aggressive expansionism. Such sentiments do not attract new members but only serve to turn potential members away. Like it or not, that's the brutal truth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of Caste Football is to open the figurative eyes of "non-racially aware" Whites to the all-pervasive anti-White agendas not only in the realm of sports but in society as a whole. One thing that's guaranteed to sow the seeds of discord which sprout into the strangling weeds of disunity is the highly emotive subject of Hitler and the Second World War.

I'd rather stand side by side with Germans as fellow White men to defend our race and common European culture against the threats of today than constantly argue about what happened in the past. The now-outdated, internecine latter approach shall ultimately condemn the nations of our race to the eternal darkness of mutual extinction as certainly as night follows day. These are the 2010's, not the 1930's. The entire geo-political paradigm has changed in little more than half a century, which is but a fleeting moment in the limitless flow of history. The world is virtually unrecognisable from that of even twenty years ago, let alone that of the 1930's. Whites have yet to realise this but Humanity stands on the brink of a pivotal era in which race, not ethnicity or nationality, shall be the primary determinant of identity. Even the majority of so-called White nationalists haven't quite grasped the magnitude of what lies just beyond the horizon and still cling to impractical ideologies whose archaic limitations only hinder the life or death cause of White racial unity.

So what happened within a week of Caste Football's relaunch? Why, we have yet another Hitler / Nazi thread popping up in the Happy Hour section. Now, in the time it took me to make this post I could have provided a racial breakdown of the weekend's English Premier League round, or of the FA Cup quarterfinals to date, or of the Champions League round of sixteen, or made a few observations about this year's upcoming NHL draft...

Go on, tell me what is more useful: concentrating upon information pertaining to the racial politics and dynamics of today or arguments and counter-arguments about the intra-White conflicts of the past? Call me a madman, but I'd say the former...

 

[sport historian]

referendum -

Let's just place the post-WW1 demographics of the region You mentioned into historical context. At the conclusion of the Napoleonic wars (1815) about 80% of the Prussian-controlled Grand Duchy of Poznan's 800,000 population was Polish. The aforementioned date is significant as it falls a century before the outbreak of The Great War. Also keep in mind that Poznan came under Prussian control in 1793 as a result of the Second Partition of Poland.

During the nineteenth century the Prussians placed great emphasis upon the settlement of Germans in their Partition-acquired Polish territories. This was coupled with increasing limits on the use of the Polish language in the fields of education and administration.

Following the unification of Germany in 1871 Bismarck embarked upon a series of policies whose aim was the permanent destruction of Polish identity within these German-controlled lands. A particularly intense version of Kulturkampf was unleashed in the German partition. An 1872 ministerial decree made German compulsory in all state schools (with the exception of religious instruction). You may all be interested to learn that Polish was banned as a "foreign language" option and could not even be used as a medium for teaching Polish children the German tongue. German teachers were offered special financial payments known as Ostmarkenzulagen as an incentive to relocate to Polish lands. In 1876 German was made compulsory in all courts and government offices.

In 1886 Bismarck established the Prussian Colonisation Commission (Koniglich Preussische Ansiedlungskommission in den Provinzen Westpreussen und Posen) in an effort to oust Poles from the land and replace them with German settlers. This essentially comprised a fund to buy out Polish-owned estates.

The German Society for the Eastern Marches (Deutscher Ostmarkenverein) was formed in Poznan in 1894 (nota bene, only twenty years prior to 1914). Among Poles it was referred to as the Hakata (HKT - an acronym derived from the surnames of its founders: Hansemann, Kennemann, Tiedemann) and its "mission" was to strengthen German "national identity" and economic power in the Province of Poznan. In other words, it was an anti-Polish organisation whose sole aim was to dispossess Polish landowners.

It is important to emphasise that elements of the Hakata were still very much present and active in interwar Poland while the NSDAP established a successor organisation in 1934, known as the Union of the German East (Bund Deutscher Osten).

In the final decades before the First World War, Ostmarkenzulagen-style incentives were extended to any German official who would serve in Poland. As a consequence, Poznan "boasted" the highest percentage of government employees of any city in the German Empire.

Now, ask yourself the following question: if all of these "Germanising" initiatives had to be implemented during the four decades prior to 1914 can the area have been as overwhelmingly German as "pro-Hitler revisionists" would like everyone to believe? Seriously...



Oh, really? You do realise that this territory - which "apologists" like you revel in referring to as "eternally German" - was gradually annexed by Prussia over the course of the three partitions of Poland (1772, 1793, 1795) don't you? I know you'll predictably dismiss everything I've already posted above as scurrilously poisonous anti-German vitriol but the fact remains that in 1815 Germans formed no more than 20% of the Duchy of Poznan's population. Despite the manifold efforts undertaken to systematically Germanise the region over the next century, Poles still constituted just over 60% of the area's population prior to the First World War.

By the way, if one travels less than 50 km ENE of Poznan one arrives at the city of Gniezno - which just happens to be the original capital of a state called Poland. It's funny how life's just one long learning experience, isn't it? Now, please enlighten me: who was occupying whose territory?

In the aftermath of the First World War the German population - which had enthusiastically supported trans-generational anti-Polish policies just a few years earlier and had treated Poles with open contempt - now magically expected those Poles to simply forget all of this and automatically treat them as respected equals. No, not an atom of hypocrisy there. To top things off, this "German minority" was openly hostile to Poland. Many banded together in quasi-military organisations such as the Selbstschutz and made no secret of their desire for an expeditious return to a Germany in which Poles would be repressed once again. Strangely enough, "revisionists" never mention the Selbstschutz's part in stirring up violence during the interwar period and their active role in the early stages of the Second World War...



If you believe that Hitler countenanced the long-term existence of an independent Poland - which he and the majority of Germans viewed as an insulting, unnatural aberration - then good luck to you. Any fool can see that given the constant agitation of resurrected Poland's "German minority" and Hitler's obsession with regaining territories lost after 1918 a German invasion was inevitable - regardless of whether the two countries had entered into that oft-quoted notional anti-USSR alliance or not. It was simply a matter of time. The territories immediately annexed by Hitler in 1939 extended beyond the lines of the German-Russian border of 1914, which proves that his rhetoric about merely wishing to reoccupy "German" land was - surprise, surprise - pure bollocks.

Almost eighty years later you still fulminate about the ethnic conflicts which dominated the 1920s and 1930s in the wake of the Treaty of Versailles. Just imagine the atmosphere of mutual suspicion and perceived injustice prevalent at the time and things may become clearer...



Haw! Haw! Awfully witty. Come on - give us a few of your "dumb Polack" jokes. Perhaps you believe those myths about Polish cavalrymen splintering their lances on tanks and other such rot. Say, you are aware that your beloved Wehrmacht likewise employed cavalry in 1939, are you not..?



Well, I guess the conclusion of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact nine days prior to the opening of hostilities, complete with its projected partition of Poland in partnership with the oh-so-hated Soviets illustrated Hitler's munificent goodwill. Hang on, perhaps that was also a nefarious piece of anti-German propaganda masterminded by those sneaky Polish agents. You know, the same geezers who must have attacked the railway station at Mosty six days prior to September 1 and bombed the station at Tarnow. Isn't it peculiar that fellows who see "false flags" absolutely everywhere look at the Gliwice (Gleiwitz, if you will...) Incident and say "yup, those perennially genocidal Poles who've been expanding into German territory for centuries did it - nothing dodgy going on here..."

By the way, any opinions about Generalplan Ost? How about the long list of Sonderaktion operations conducted as part of the wider Intelliganzaktion ("elimination" of the Polish intelligentsia) strategy? Yes? No? I'll wager you'd have just loved to see those inconveniently troublesome Poles "expunged". But not all of those subhuman Polacks should have been exterminated though, eh? Well, at least not straight away. After all, some Arbeitvolk slave labour would certainly come in handy, wouldn't it?



Yes, history certainly is far more nuanced than most people believe. In this case, however, you appear to believe that everything is etched in clearly contrasting black and white. The concept of lebensraum is perfectly acceptable - if the said lebensraum is for Germans. The Germans - particularly your idol Hitler - "dindu nuffin". Congratulations on such exemplary objectivity. Blokes like you form the obverse of the debased intellectual specie passed (so to speak...) by the fanatically self-righteous leftists whose one-eyed "scholarship" you delight in deriding. Fall Weiss, indeed...

Let me conclude by saying this: nothing drives a railway spike into the arse of a pro-White website or organisation quite like open admiration for Hitler and attempts to justify Nazi Germany's aggressive expansionism. Such sentiments do not attract new members but only serve to turn potential members away. Like it or not, that's the brutal truth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of Caste Football is to open the figurative eyes of "non-racially aware" Whites to the all-pervasive anti-White agendas not only in the realm of sports but in society as a whole. One thing that's guaranteed to sow the seeds of discord which sprout into the strangling weeds of disunity is the highly emotive subject of Hitler and the Second World War.

I'd rather stand side by side with Germans as fellow White men to defend our race and common European culture against the threats of today than constantly argue about what happened in the past. The now-outdated, internecine latter approach shall ultimately condemn the nations of our race to the eternal darkness of mutual extinction as certainly as night follows day. These are the 2010's, not the 1930's. The entire geo-political paradigm has changed in little more than half a century, which is but a fleeting moment in the limitless flow of history. The world is virtually unrecognisable from that of even twenty years ago, let alone that of the 1930's. Whites have yet to realise this but Humanity stands on the brink of a pivotal era in which race, not ethnicity or nationality, shall be the primary determinant of identity. Even the majority of so-called White nationalists haven't quite grasped the magnitude of what lies just beyond the horizon and still cling to impractical ideologies whose archaic limitations only hinder the life or death cause of White racial unity.

So what happened within a week of Caste Football's relaunch? Why, we have yet another Hitler / Nazi thread popping up in the Happy Hour section. Now, in the time it took me to make this post I could have provided a racial breakdown of the weekend's English Premier League round, or of the FA Cup quarterfinals to date, or of the Champions League round of sixteen, or made a few observations about this year's upcoming NHL draft...

Go on, tell me what is more useful: concentrating upon information pertaining to the racial politics and dynamics of today or arguments and counter-arguments about the intra-White conflicts of the past? Call me a madman, but I'd say the former...

A very good history lesson. Nothing drives away people who want to support white athletes like Hitler worship and apologias for Nazi Germany. As you wrote, it didn't take a week for it to start again.

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, "Uncle Joe" had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union (including Poland and Germany) for the cause of communism.

Hitler was the only significant leader standing in the Red terrors way of total, world domination. And since our great leaders, and other Allied forces contributed to defeating Germany just when they were on the cusp of destroying Bolshevism, Stalin got what he wanted (Berlin) and then some.


Heck, he even got one of his own as U.S. President.

 

[werewolf]

Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, "Uncle Joe" had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union (including Poland and Germany) for the cause of communism.

Hitler was the only significant leader standing in the Red terrors way of total, world domination. And since our great leaders, and other Allied forces contributed to defeating Germany just when they were on the cusp of destroying Bolshevism, Stalin got what he wanted (Berlin) and then some.


Heck, he even got one of his own as U.S. President.

And if it wasn't for the long and heroic struggle of Germany and the Axis and the Waffen SS, the largest all-volunteer international fighting force in history - and for every SS man that fell, six enemies did - "kindly old Uncle Joe Stalin" - and you should see the way his Allies, especially the USSA, were portraying him in their propaganda at the time...for instance the big budget Hollywood movies, like Mission To Moscow, which defended the mass Moscow show trials, and Song of Russia, which depicted beatifically happy Soviet peasants singing on their way to work in the collective farms - kindly old Uncle Joe and Judeo-Bolshevism would have overrun western Europe as well as eastern.

As for the usual antis above, everything I said was correct, and dredging up ancient hatreds and feuds - and there's plenty to go around on all sides - doesn't change it. Hitler initially wanted Poland as an ally not an enemy, and Poland was occupying Germany, as it was "given" West Prussia, and cutting it off from access to East Prussia, and refusing to compromise and brutalizing the German people in the occupied territory, given to them by the so-called Treaty of Versailles, which as wise men knew at the time, was deliberately designed only to create an even greater conflict in the future, that is WW2.

But I do object to Germany's increasing emphasis on pro-German propaganda rather than pan-European, and I think that even lost them the war. Initially Germany was welcomed as liberators in the east when they liberated the people from the Bolshevik tyranny, but then, in the face of the brutal guerrilla war and reprisals, it changed and made friends into bitter enemies.

White people are being driven into extinction and we shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves, but I'm afraid we will until the very end. The enemy knows of our proclivity to do so, and consequently is able to manipulate us into destroying each other, as they did in the disastrous wars and genocides of the 18th, 19th, and especially the 20th century. Even now they are trying to arrange a war between Russia and what's left of the USA. Personally I like Polish people (in fact I think that Polish people are my favorite, because they seem to have a national proclivity to poke fun at themselves, not take themselves too seriously, like Germans do...Germans do seem to have a knack for making themselves disliked), German people, Russian people, Iranian people (Iran means Aryan), etc etc., and I like Asian people too. No reason for any of us to fight. I'd even like negroes if they were restored to their proper milieu in sub saharan central west africa.

As for "driving people away", people should be exposed to the truth about history, not the twisted lies that are taught in their schools and on their controlled media.

 

[Menelik]

???

...nothing drives a railway spike into the arse of a pro-White website or organisation quite like open admiration for Hitler and attempts to justify Nazi Germany's aggressive expansionism...
I'd rather stand side by side with Germans as fellow White men to defend our race and common European culture against the threats of today than constantly argue about what happened in the past.

???

 

[werewolf]

Clip from the WW2 American propaganda movie, "Song of Russia", about the happy peasants on a Bolshevik collective farm in the USSR... "It is a privilege to drive a tractor!".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOmlD2goMbk

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Rebajlo wrote:

"One thing that's guaranteed to sow the seeds of discord which sprout into the strangling weeds of disunity is the highly emotive subject of Hitler and the Second World War."

I agree, and think that in order to counter-discord, and open the eyes of potential members to this and other forums providing awareness of our plight, we need to be more effective at not evoking the name of Hitler alone, but need to write more about the motivation of Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin and the special group of people that supported them.

Hitler is a lightning-rod to be sure, and can be a discussion stifling capstone, once mentioned.

Rebajlo, you seemed to have overlooked (or neglected to include) Stalin in the "strangling weeds" subject of the Second World War, which "Good old Uncle Joe" played a very significant part in. Why is that?

 

[werewolf]

Rebaljo: "I'd rather stand side by side with Germans as fellow White men to defend our race and common European culture against the threats of today than constantly argue about what happened in the past. The now-outdated, internecine latter approach shall ultimately condemn the nations of our race to the eternal darkness of mutual extinction as certainly as night follows day. These are the 2010's, not the 1930's. The entire geo-political paradigm has changed in little more than half a century, which is but a fleeting moment in the limitless flow of history. The world is virtually unrecognisable from that of even twenty years ago, let alone that of the 1930's. Whites have yet to realise this but Humanity stands on the brink of a pivotal era in which race, not ethnicity or nationality, shall be the primary determinant of identity. Even the majority of so-called White nationalists haven't quite grasped the magnitude of what lies just beyond the horizon and still cling to impractical ideologies whose archaic limitations only hinder the life or death cause of White racial unity."


I agree with all of that. But the thread was about a certain subject. And I agree with what Referendum said too. In retrospect it would have been far better if Hitler had just consolidated Germany in its truncated borders, like Ataturk did with Turkey. But would they have let him? One major reason that WW1 was orchestrated was because the Britain didn't like the fact that Germany was taking over international trade and industry because of its superior products, and meanwhile Judeo-Boslhevism was intent on expanding, most especially into Germany, which is where Karl Marx wanted it to be headquartered. Anyway, if people think my posts are divisive I could delete them.

 

[WHITE NOISE]

Clip from the WW2 American propaganda movie, "Song of Russia", about the happy peasants on a Bolshevik collective farm in the USSR... "It is a privilege to drive a tractor!".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOmlD2goMbk

Yes, good old collectivization "It's a privilege to drive a tractor." Yet, most "Kurkuls" didn't even have access to their own horses, cattle, sheep or other farm implements once the body soviet entered their towns and villages to take everything from them, including all of the wheat they grew, starving to death at least 7 million Ukrainians in one year alone. www.holodomorct.org/history.html

 

[Matra2]

Poland wasn't an innocent nation that dindu nuffin, they partook in the partitioning of Czechoslovakia.

The Poles don't claim they "dindu nuffin" as the issue is still controversial in historical research circles. The only "white" nation that has a dindu nuffin mentality is Russia. I'd personally prefer the term to be used only for blacks, Jews, and possibly Muslims as all three groups seem convinced that in all of world history their people have never ever been in the wrong about anything. "We dindu nuffin. We are victims and nothing else".

IIRC the Poles and Czechs resolved their border issues in the 1920s through international arbitration. It was only when it became clear that the regions in question would fall under German rule that the Poles reacted by taking them. They didn't want ethnic Poles at the mercy of Hitler's anti-Polish regime nor did they want that regime, which was intent on war with Poland, having the strategic advantage of controlling the area. The Czechs weren't that bothered by the Polish move as they knew it was a reaction to the German takeover of the Czech part of old Czechoslovakia. You won't find any Czechs today who are upset about it. Czech hostility towards foreign countries over historical events is limited mostly to two countries - Germany and Russia - though there is also some lingering animosity regarding the British role in pushing them into their embarrassing acquiescence to German demands.

 

[sport historian]

Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, "Uncle Joe" had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union (including Poland and Germany) for the cause of communism.

Hitler was the only significant leader standing in the Red terrors way of total, world domination. And since our great leaders, and other Allied forces contributed to defeating Germany just when they were on the cusp of destroying Bolshevism, Stalin got what he wanted (Berlin) and then some.


Heck, he even got one of his own as U.S. President.

"Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, 'Uncle Joe' had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union."

As in Stalin (and Hitler's) cynical treachery of the "Non-Aggression Pact" dividing Poland?

 

[Romulus]

Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, "Uncle Joe" had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union (including Poland and Germany) for the cause of communism.

Hitler was the only significant leader standing in the Red terrors way of total, world domination. And since our great leaders, and other Allied forces contributed to defeating Germany just when they were on the cusp of destroying Bolshevism, Stalin got what he wanted (Berlin) and then some.


Heck, he even got one of his own as U.S. President.

Yep, supposedly Stalin was planning on invading western Europe in july 1941, about a month before Barbarossa. Even a former KGB official (can't think of his name) presented on this subject at the Naval Academy a few years back. The Soviet invasion was code-named "operation thunder" or something. Which would explain how appallingly the USSR responded to the initial German invasion. If not for Hitler's strike the USSR most likely would have been occupying Europe within a year or two.

 

[WHITE NOISE]

"Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, 'Uncle Joe' had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union."

As in Stalin (and Hitler's) cynical treachery of the "Non-Aggression Pact" dividing Poland?

I'm not dismissing the political and geographical implications that may have lead to Poland's being pressed from two opposite directions (leading up to and including World War II). The reality is that Poland lay across a stretch of land that has overtime been inexorably exploited by multiple ideologies and conquests (from within and without).

 

[Old Scratch]

IIRC the Poles and Czechs resolved their border issues in the 1920s through international arbitration. It was only when it became clear that the regions in question would fall under German rule that the Poles reacted by taking them. They didn't want ethnic Poles at the mercy of Hitler's anti-Polish regime nor did they want that regime, which was intent on war with Poland, having the strategic advantage of controlling the area. The Czechs weren't that bothered by the Polish move as they knew it was a reaction to the German takeover of the Czech part of old Czechoslovakia. You won't find any Czechs today who are upset about it. Czech hostility towards foreign countries over historical events is limited mostly to two countries - Germany and Russia - though there is also some lingering animosity regarding the British role in pushing them into their embarrassing acquiescence to German demands.

Excellent hindsight bias. Poland reacted to a FUTURE anti-Polish government. One that put out feelers for an alliance with Poland, hadn't shown hostility to Poland, and wanted to create an "anti-Commintern pact" with Poland. Marty McFly traveled from 1985 and warned Poland they were going to be conquered so they carried out this Machiavellian mastery to thwart the German war effort. Too bad ole Marty didn't explain about the USSR joining in the fray. Oops!

The Poles don't claim they "dindu nuffin" as the issue is still controversial in historical research circles. The only "white" nation that has a dindu nuffin mentality is Russia. I'd personally prefer the term to be used only for blacks, Jews, and possibly Muslims as all three groups seem convinced that in all of world history their people have never ever been in the wrong about anything. "We dindu nuffin. We are victims and nothing else".

Poland thinks they contributed to the start of war, yet here you are saying Germany was 100% the aggressor without cause. Once again, Poland dindu nuffin, Hitler was evil and wanted to conquer the whole world, enslave everyone and kill anyone without blonde hair and blue eyes. No one had ever been aggressive before Hitler, except when we're talking within the context of Whites vs other races, then Whites have done lots of evil things. But those countries are innocent heroes when discussing WWII. This cognitive dissonance is somehow objective reality.

 

[Old Scratch]

"Not one poster has mentioned the mass murderer Stalin in all this discussion. Indeed, 'Uncle Joe' had his own plan on conquering everything west of the Soviet Union."

As in Stalin (and Hitler's) cynical treachery of the "Non-Aggression Pact" dividing Poland?

He wanted to ally with Poland against the USSR. The Polish military junta wouldn't have it, and preferred a war with Germany, with Poland being backed by the UK. They tried to goad Germany into attacking them, planning to hold out long enough so that Britain could attack Germany. The only evidence of the Gleiwitz incident being "staged" comes from the Nuremberg trials which utilized torture to obtain their confessions, before that it was never questioned as an authentic attack. The Polish also legitimately attacked Germans living within the Polish borders. They didn't foresee Germany making an alliance with USSR.

Poland wasn't an innocent nation that dindu nuffin, they partook in the partitioning of Czechoslovakia.

Nazi Germany isn't the only nation that ever tried to expand or wage war. Why they get so much heat when Britain did far worse to the Boers just 30-40 years previous is beyond me. It's like everyone hating the USA for having black slaves like we invented slavery, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, or as if we had more than a tiny fraction of the black slaves in the world.

The Allies abandoned Poland to the USSR after the war anyway, and half of Europe. That wasn't the real reason for conflict with Germany.

No. Hitler clearly wanted to expand. Germany's thinkers developed and expounded on the idea of geopolitics, and "lebensraum" which they were going to take from the USSR. However Germany did not want war with Poland and they did not want war with the UK. Germany wanted to ally with Poland in anti Communist coalition but Poland wouldn't bite because they thought Germany was the easier and juicier prize, and didn't want to give up Danzig, nor did they want to give Germany access into East Prussia.

Nazi Germany weren't savage monsters that just wanted to conquer the world, and Poland, UK etc weren't harmless innocents that were attacked by the evil Nazis.

History is far more nuanced than Germany/Nazis/Hitler = evil, everyone else = the good guys.

Poland refused to join the anti-Comintern pact. Poland would not allow Germany access into East Prussia. Germany wanted to wage war in the East against the USSR. Poland wanted war with Germany, and stood in their way against a war with the USSR. Germany gave them war. You think Germany could have fought the USSR while Poland being a thorn in the side, without land access to East Prussia?