Hatton vs. Pacman

Charles Martel

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
8,293
Let's keep the big picture in mind: Hatton may have been brutally KOed, but overall white boxers have been doing very well this year!

Let's not forget all the wins: Vitali-Gomez, Froch-Taylor, Bute-Zuniga, Adamek-Banks, Povetkin-Estrada, etc.
 

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
I would like to see Adamek go for some unification bouts in the cruiserweight division. There isn't a fighter in the world that can beat him in this division.
 

Sean

Mentor
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
670
Well I'm disappointed, but Ricky's had a great run overall. He is not overrated, in fact, he has been underrated his entire career. He won a bunch of fights he wasn't supposed to, and just went up against a better fighter last night.

For the record, Pacman will destroy Floyd if they fight, but I think the fights going to have a hard time being made. Floyd will run from Pac until he has no more room. Then he will either retire, of fight him for an unreasonable amount of money.
 

j41181

Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
2,344
JD1986 said:
Let's keep the big picture in mind: Hatton may have been brutally KOed, but overall white boxers have been doing very well this year!

Let's not forget all the wins: Vitali-Gomez, Froch-Taylor, Bute-Zuniga, Adamek-Banks, Povetkin-Estrada, etc.
I too admire the triumph of those fighters, JD1986.
But none of them have ever fought in Las Vegas, Nevada, at the MGM Grand. No doubt that's the biggest boxing stage in the world now. Hatton is the only great white fighter I know to ever fight in such a grand stage. Malignaggi fought there too, facing Hatton. I don't think you will see white fighter fight in such a grand stage too often. It's the place that makes many great fighters famous. Unless any these guys mentioned can generate more than enough buzz to fight there. So for now, many of the best white fighters just fight in Germany, England, or some not well known location of the USA. Edited by: j41181
 

Charles Martel

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
8,293
j41181 said:
I too admire the triumph of those fighters, JD1986.
But none of them have ever fought in Las Vegas, Nevada, at the MGM Grand. No doubt that's the biggest boxing stage in the world now. Hatton is the only great white fighter I know to ever fight in such a grand stage. Malignaggi fought there too, facing Hatton. I don't think you will see white fighter fight in such a grand stage too often. It's the place that makes many great fighters famous. Unless any these guys mentioned can generate more than enough buzz to fight there. So for now, many of the best white fighters just fight in Germany, England, or some not well known location of the USA.

The Klitschko-Haye fight created more buzz in Europe than the Hatton-Pacquiao did in America, unless you're a Filipino! The 60,000 fans watching Wlad's next fight will be a bigger crowd than De La Hoya, Mayweather or Pacquiao has ever had! When was the last time a boxing event in Vegas sold 30,000 tickets in the first day? Of course, there is no venue in Vegas that holds that many people.

An amazing 52% of TV's in Germany were tuned into Vitali-Gomez. It will be much higher for Wlad-Haye! Nowadays, fighters in Europe (even without Bob Arum's PPVs) can make more money there than in the US.

Las Vegas has some nice venues, but let's not forget the most historic fights were fought in New York, Chicago or overseas. And both Klitschkos have fought and won world heavyweight title fights in Las Vegas in the past. But it wouldn't make sense for them to fight there now, because they can make far more money in Europe!

To me the Hatton-Pacquiao fight was big, but the Wladimir-Haye fight is the most important boxing event of the year: the heavyweight championship of the world!

Most adult white men are between 150 and something over 200 pounds, and so our more natural weight divisions tend to be the larger ones. I haven't been Hatton's height nor weighed 140 since I was age 13. Historically, the smaller weight divisions have been considered less important. More people have heard of Rocky Marciano than the great Willie Pep, and Sonny Liston is a more familiar name than Sandy Sadler. It's easy to make a case that Pep was better p4p than Marciano and that Sadler was better p4p than Liston, but the heavyweight division has always been the "glamour" division in boxing.

The "baddest man on the planet" is probably Fedor, but to many people it's boxing's heavyweight champion. Nowadays, the division gets less attention in the Jewish-controlled North American media because the champions, Wlad and Vitali, are white men.
smiley6.gif


And both Klitschkos are as great and probably greater than Manny Pacquiao anyway! They win their fights in a similar dominating manner and have even higher KO percentages.

Oh by the way, a much greater British boxer than Ricky Hatton fought in Las Vegas last year, namely Joe Calzaghe!
smiley2.gif
Edited by: JD1986
 

NorCal831

Newbie
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
69
i cant wait to see a pacman pretty boy floyd fight. i really don't know who would come out on top. floyd is one of the few fighters that can match pacquiaos hand speed and is also bigger so i would be inclined to think PBF will come out on top. the wild card is simple, PBF hasnt faced pac man before and i dont think ANY training can prepare a fighter for manny's style. theres only one way to experiance his style, and its to come out and fight him.

my prediction is that manny will come out fast and crowd and bother maywheather for the first few rounds. but unlike hatton, maywheather has the defense and correct mindset and will "wheather the storm" and take most of the mid to latter rounds and come out with a very close decision.

but of course, maywheather has to get past a tough as nails juan manuel marquez first.
 

waterbed

Mentor
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
871
Location
Outside North America
j41181 said:
This, and Vic Darchinyan's loss to Nonito Donaire.

I guess Filipinos OWN white fighters for now.
smiley2.gif


I think whites have not fared well yet against Filipinos.
smiley2.gif



It is very hard to find whites that are so small that they can go flyweight.but a lot of east asians can.
 

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
waterbed said:
j41181 said:
This, and Vic Darchinyan's loss to Nonito Donaire.

I guess Filipinos OWN white fighters for now.
smiley2.gif


I think whites have not fared well yet against Filipinos.
smiley2.gif



It is very hard to find whites that are so small that they can go flyweight.but a lot of east asians can.

Yes Waterbed I don't care much for these light divisions. I mean who really wants to watch two 112 pound guys fight?
 

ToughJ.Riggins

Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
5,063
Location
Ontario Canada
I agree, I'm not interested in fights below Welterweight. A male who weighs less than 140 lbs is too small to become a force at ALMOST any sport I'm interested in. They can dominate lower weight classes in boxing simply by beating up other tiny guys.

Even gymnasts in my observation (which favors people of shorter than average height) would likely weigh 140 lbs or so (and they are very strong). I've seen gymnasts on the tallest end of the spectrum- as tall as me at 5'10 or so, but most European gymnasts may be about 5'6 or 5'7 or so. The Chinese gymnasts tend to be a little smaller than Euro gymnasts. Your average Chinese man is only 5'6 and a Caucasian male 5'10. I haven't done extensive research on gymnastics-so tell me if I'm wrong here.
smiley4.gif


I know that Paul Hamm for one is 5'6 and 140 lbs.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
There are virtually no white champions in the really light divisions. We do have Bernard Dunne and Darchiniyan as champions. However we have Sergiy Dzinziruk at super welterweight and he is undefeated. At welterweight we have Vyacheslav Senchenko who is undefeated as well. Even at super lightweight we have Andriy Kotelnik as champion. Whites are even well represented at divisions lower than middlweight.
 

StarWars

Mentor
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,194
When I watch boxing I want to watch power like the Klitschkos and Marciano and Calzaghe. Small people can have heart but honestly it's boring to watch a bunch of high energy low strength migits have at it. I just can't get into a fight that has no blows in it. Hatton was good in his prime and Pacman is a class act boxer though. Still, I could care less about them to be honest. I feel bad that I'm putting down thses small athletes but they are so weak and boring.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
5,063
Location
Ontario Canada
I draw the limit at about 140 lbs and about 5'5 or 5'6 tall for athletes I'm interested in. Football players are bulkier, but Darren Sproles made it to the NFL at 5'6. Dave Meggett and MJD are/were good at 5'7. Danny Woodhead would be as good as MJD (maybe better) if given the chance IMO. Brian Shay and Justin Beaver could have been good RBs at 5'8 as well (wasn't "the Flea" Keith Elias also 5'8 or so?). Barry Sanders was 5'8- as is Brian Westbrook and Priest Holmes.

Earl Boykins is 5'5 and made the NBA- Spud Webb won a dunk contest at 5'8. And Nate Robinson won a dunk contest at 5'8 and could have played in the NFL at CB as well. There are a few CBs in the NFL at 5'7 or 5'8 or so.

Bottom line: Freakishly athletic White athletes are held out of the NBA and NFL when they are short (due to the Caucasian ban at HB and CB)- where the freakishly athletic blacks are not.
smiley7.gif
Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

StarWars

Mentor
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,194
ToughJ.Riggins said:
Freakishly athletic White athletes are held out of the NBA and NFL for being short- where the freakishly athletic blacks are not.

I know it's so funny. It is assumed that blacks can handle being good and short whereas whites can only be good at big TE or tackle positions. I don't mind short runningbacks because they are still 200 lbs and can actually hit unlike the 140 lb. boxers. I think hillis types are more effictive because they arent slowed down by arm tackles and get more yards when they fall forward.
 

white lightning

Hall of Famer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
15,906
I was a little bummed out last night but I'm over it. I belive that Pacquio is a great fighter. However, one thing most people overlooked was that Mayweather Sr. totally changed Rickys fight plan. He tried to teach him defense and a new style. While he might have intended no harm, it messed up Rickys head. The kid was thinking in there rather than fighting naturally.

When Ricky fired his life long trainer, it was probably as big a mistake as when Wariner fired Clyde Hart. I hate to say it but it's true. I still give Pacquio credit as currently he is the best in the world. He would have probably won anyway as good as he looked but it would have been a different fight. Hatton went 10 rounds with Mayweather with his old trainer. That same trainer would have approached this fight differently which would have made for a far more entertaining fight. That being said, I think Ricky will retire most likely. I commend him on a good career. 45-2 is nothing to hang your head about!
smiley32.gif
 

ToughJ.Riggins

Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
5,063
Location
Ontario Canada
StarWars said:
ToughJ.Riggins said:
Freakishly athletic White athletes are held out of the NBA and NFL for being short- where the freakishly athletic blacks are not.

I know it's so funny. It is assumed that blacks can handle being good and short whereas whites can only be good at big TE or tackle positions. I don't mind short runningbacks because they are still 200 lbs and can actually hit unlike the 140 lb. boxers. I think hillis types are more effictive because they arent slowed down by arm tackles and get more yards when they fall forward.

Yes, the 5'7 or 5'8 whites aren't tall enough to play fullback and can't handle Safety in most cases (Jim Leonhard made it through though!). The Caucasian outright ban at tailback and CB is sinister.
smiley7.gif


I think that NFL teams should use both a Hester/Hillis/Bettis/Jacobs/M. Barber/B. Wells type with a complimentary Scat back. Many teams have been very effective with this two back system. Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
9,550
It was quite common in the 60's and 70's for the power back to be the workhorse and the scat back to compliment the power runner. Green Bay had Taylor for most of the work and the Golden Boy and Elijah Pitts complimented him. During the 70's Csonka was the main back and Mercury Morris complimented him. Now its the other way around.
 

Kaptain

Master
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
3,182
Location
Minnesota
How did Pacman lose 3-4 fights? He looks like the reincarnation of Roberto Duran.

I expected Hatton to be more patient. He seemed to actually box in his last fight before Pacman, but in this fight he just kept running forward with wild swings. Poor strategy especially after getting hurt in the first round. Mayweather Sr. sucks as a trainer. Why would any white fighter choose a drugged-out black guy as a trainer?

Hatton didn't fight like a professional. I think too that at this point in his career he may have taken too many punches leaving his chin suspect. That first knockdown was from a very light punch. I love Hatton but he just hasn't evolved as a fighter and Pacman obviously has.

The PFP best are the Klitchskos though. No fighters in any division have dominated their division like the Klitchskos and there is no reason a heavyweight can't be the PFP best. Edited by: Kaptain Poop
 

darthvader

Guru
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
148
First of all this best pound for pound fighter thing is very subjective. In fact it's downright ridiculous if you ask me. When people say pacquiao is the official best pound for pound fighter I'm assuming that means he can beat up any of the klitschko brothers, emelianeko, or even George St pierre. Now I know for a fact that will never happen. As far as I'm concerned hatton deserved everything he got for being a race traitor. I'm not so sure Pacquaio will easily handle mayweather. Defensively mayweather is one of the best fighters I have ever seen. He is also a skilled tactician. But then again they both can beat each other's brains in and I could care less.& nbsp;
 

guest301

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
4,246
Location
Ohio
darthvader said:
First of all this best pound for pound fighter thing is very subjective. In fact it's downright ridiculous if you ask me. When people say pacquiao is the official best pound for pound fighter I'm assuming that means he can beat up any of the klitschko brothers, emelianeko, or even George St pierre. Now I know for a fact that will never happen. As far as I'm concerned hatton deserved everything he got for being a race traitor. I'm not so sure Pacquaio will easily handle mayweather. Defensively mayweather is one of the best fighters I have ever seen. He is also a skilled tactician. But then again they both can beat each other's brains in and I could care less.  & nbsp;


How is Hatton a race traitor? That's a serious charge and one that should be sparingly used around here for white athletes. Can you back that post up with some info convincing me he is a race traitor. I hope it's not because he hired Roger Mayweather SR., that was a business decision that obviously didn't pay off, but race traitor????
 

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
guest301 said:
darthvader said:
First of all this best pound for pound fighter thing is very subjective. In fact it's downright ridiculous if you ask me. When people say pacquiao is the official best pound for pound fighter I'm assuming that means he can beat up any of the klitschko brothers, emelianeko, or even George St pierre. Now I know for a fact that will never happen. As far as I'm concerned hatton deserved everything he got for being a race traitor. I'm not so sure Pacquaio will easily handle mayweather. Defensively mayweather is one of the best fighters I have ever seen. He is also a skilled tactician. But then again they both can beat each other's brains in and I could care less.  & nbsp;


How is Hatton a race traitor? That's a serious charge and one that should be sparingly used around here for white athletes. Can you back that post up with some info convincing me he is a race traitor. I hope it's not because he hired Roger Mayweather SR., that was a business decision that obviously didn't pay off, but race traitor????

I think he is referring to Hatton using Mayweather as a trainer. That really doesn't make him a race traitor.
 

Charles Martel

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
8,293
Ricky Hatton had a great four year run as light welterweight linear and Ring Champion. He defeated Kostya Tszyu in June 2005, and never lost at 140 until now. He's won world titles four times in two different weight divisions (five world titles if you count the IBO).

Those are decent achievements, when we consider the thousands of fighters who try but never win a world title!

But nothing lasts forever - all heroes fall eventually, either in battle or because of old age.

Let's forgive him for losing to an all time great, and applaud Ricky Hatton for his accomplishments!
smiley32.gif
 

GiovaniMarcon

Mentor
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
1,231
Location
Westwood, California
I think Hatton is more well-received than Calzaghe to casual British boxing fans because the latter comes off, at times, to be older, more low-key, and perhaps even of a higher social status than the average blue-collar boxing fan. I know Joe Calzaghe probably has humble roots, but that's just how he comes off to me.

Hatton, by contrast, is loud, brash, and vicious, which fits more in with the tough-guy attitude exemplified by the British working class.

While Calzaghe is certainly an all-time great -- it's obvious that he beats you as much with his mind as he does with his fists. That being said, he's less spectacular to the wham-bam, thank you ma'am fan who wants instant KO gratification. Hatton fits that mould when he's beating lesser fighters' brains in.

I can't help but wish that more young British men were like Ricky Hatton -- punch a man in the face and knock him the F.O. if he even thinks of stepping to you.

As it is, too many boys today grow up to be pansies.

Ricky's trouble was that he's a very good fighter who went up against an all-time great fighter in his prime, and in his own chosen weight class.

Ricky is technically less skilled than Manny, but in terms of heart I think Ricky matches him.

The only thing Ricky had going for him was his guts and his toughness, things taken away from him in large measure when he lost a lot of weight. I kind of knew Hatton would lose, even though I hoped he'd win -- but I predicted it would at least go to the cards, or end in a later round TKO.

To take nothing away from the immensely talented Pacquiao, I still have to say the way the media gushes over him is disgusting. ESPECIALLY since the media made excuses for De La Hoya getting his ass whupped.

But this victory over Hatton? Nah. The media is having a field day with it, as with any triumph, small or large, against a white boy.

Meanwhile, Vladimir Klitschko could knock out Cassius Clay's Australopithecine ancestors and the media would take no notice.Edited by: GiovaniMarcon
 

dwid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
4,254
Location
Louisiana
ToughJ.Riggins said:
Whitelion said:
why do people (English) seem to like Hatton more than they like Calzaghe? Calzaghe is one of the best of all time and I have a hard time rating boxers ahead of him. No offense to Hatton but I never thought he was that great of a boxer. He is very good but not elite. So why does Hatton seem to draw more fans than Calzaghe?

I agree- I'm no boxing genius, but from what I know- Calzaghe makes adjustments better than almost any fighter ever and is a much better P4P fighter than Hatton at a higher weight class to boot. To beat Hopkins on points when Hopkins was still in such great shape at his age was an amazing achievement. Hopkins was not washed up! Calzaghe just outworked him with his quickness. Plus Calzaghe is a Celt-he's 1/2 Welsh!

This is why Calzaghe is my favorite fighter, his ability to improvise and adjust to opponents and beat them as much with his mind as his fists. He has the perfect combination of everything. (and since hes Celtic that makes him even more of a favorite since I am majority Irish and my wife is Welsh)

Theres this theory i kept hearing from my Psychology teacher about blacks having more "fluid" intelligence, i think thats what he called it. Something about them being able to improv and make up things as they go along better than they can learn a predetermined plan. He went on to say that is why they are the best jazz musicians and stuff that involves improvisation.

And something about Whites only being good at having "crystal intelligence" that they can learn a plan and execute it perfectly but cant adjust easily.

Calzaghe is proof that that theory is BS.

I even read a football article about this too, talking about why Whites were better at offensive positions like OLINE because they are given a predetermined assignment to execute and blacks are better at defense because they are allowed to freelance and make things up as they go along.

Which is utter bs because offensive linemen have to adjust sometimes too. They might have an assignment to block such and such player, and he might not even be where he is supposed to be for that particular play and defensive players also have predetermined plays.

Yes you have guys like Ed Reed who sit around and make stuff up as they go along, but he would not be able to do that if the rest of his defense wasn't so good.

It seems like White safetys are hardly ever in a situation like this, they are always having to make tackles that their teammates have missed and help out on coverages that the cornerbacks have messed up on, but yet they still get the blame for poor defensive play.Edited by: dwid
 

Liverlips

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
4,197
JD1986 said:
Ricky Hatton had a great four year run as light welterweight linear and Ring Champion. He defeated Kostya Tszyu in June 2005, and never lost at 140 until now. He's won world titles four times in two different weight divisions (five world titles if you count the IBO).

Those are decent achievements, when we consider the thousands of fighters who try but never win a world title!

But nothing lasts forever - all heroes fall eventually, either in battle or because of old age.

Let's forgive him for losing to an all time great, and applaud Ricky Hatton for his accomplishments!
smiley32.gif

This is spot on! Ricky only lost twice and both times to the #1 p4p fighter in the world.
 

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
You guys are correct. Ricky had a great career. Two time champ at 140 lbs, 147 lbs title holder, only two loses to HOF fighters and made millions. Beat some HOF fighters. A great career!

But, he his strategy for fighting Pacman was all wrong. I viewed the fight for the second time. Ricky had his chin out in front and charged recklessly at Pacman at this level? Come on, there are no excuses. He should have bided his time, especially after being clipped in the first round and fought defensively until the 6th or 7th. Then go for broke. Now he will have to subject himself and his son to that terrible KO.

The tradegy of it all is that Ricky will have life time to think about his error and nothing can be done to change it. I feel sorry for him. At the this level, I think is almost as important as skill and strength.
 
American Freedom News
Top