Fedor-Sylvia: Affliction Banned

Sean

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Fedor definately proved that he's the best fighter in the world!
 

freedom1

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I just can't see any way Couture could beat Fedor. Fedor dominated Coleman and beat Crocop and Nog when they were in their primes.
 
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Emelianenko is also one year YOUNGER than Anderson Silva. He has more years of his prime left than The Spider.
 

JD074

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Poacher said:
I like James Irvin he seems like a nice guy but he is no MMA champion. His KO of Alexander was great to watch but Alexander was and always will be a can. Silva's victory over him was insignificant compared to what Fedor did.

I agree. Anderson's performance was impressive, but Fedor was even more impressive. He defeated a much more accomplished fighter (a former UFC champ,) had a much bigger size disadvantage (Silva and Irvin were the same height,) and he finished the job in half the time. It's noteworthy that Silva made a 20 pound jump to LHW, but it was obvious that moving up in weight wasn't going to be a problem for him. He's tall, strong, has a good reach, and has already fought Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson, who are as strong, or stronger, than Irvin. On the other hand, Sylvia dwarfed Fedor!

http://flickr.com/photos/10266314@N06/2511150159/

(I couldn't put the picture in the post for some reason, just click on the link.)
Edited by: JD074
 
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That picture is great. It looks like the guys are having fun, about to break into laughter. I am so sick of the N.W.A. (black With Attitude) marketing we get shoved down our throats just watching the commercials and promotions on any sports channel. Its nice to see white guys proving you don't have to act like an @$$hole, even if you are really tough!
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Aleks Emelianenko has Hepatitis B. His fighting career is probably over.
 

whiteCB

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whiteCB said:
Fedor by Submission folks...you heard it hear 1st!

Barnett by KO

WOW talk about being on the money. Makes me wich I was in Vegas Saturday. Anyways the best news I read was that Fedor plans to fight again in October and then again New Years Eve. I cannot get enough of this stone cold Russian's dominance. He doesn't necessarily pass the initial eye test of world's baddest man but boy he could whoop anyone of the 6+ billion people on this planet. Oh and I'm getting fu*kin and sick n' tired of the Anderson Silva best PFP bullsh*t!! People who say that can suck my you know what.
 

nopictures

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nevada said:
Aleks Emelianenko has Hepatitis B. His fighting career is probably over.

I read that earlier today and that's a damn shame. He's an entertaining and elite fighter at any rate and it's a pity we may not get to see him in the ring/cage again. His brother cast a huge shadow and that must have been an interesting struggle to establish himself as a top fighter alongside his brother who is largely considered the best in the world. Edited by: nopictures
 

guest301

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whiteCB said:
whiteCB said:
Fedor by Submission folks...you heard it hear 1st!

Barnett by KO

WOW talk about being on the money. Makes me wich I was in Vegas Saturday. Anyways the best news I read was that Fedor plans to fight again in October and then again New Years Eve. I cannot get enough of this stone cold Russian's dominance. He doesn't necessarily pass the initial eye test of world's baddest man but boy he could whoop anyone of the 6+ billion people on this planet. Oh and I'm getting fu*kin and sick n' tired of the Anderson Silva best PFP bullsh*t!! People who say that can suck my you know what.

Fedor is awesome and I agree that he's the best fighter/MMA guy on the planet. But I disagree with your contention that he could "whoop anyone of a 6 billion people on this planet". I suspect there are some 10th degree black belt martial artists out there who would never fight in a cage and some elite special forces guys who could take him quite handily in a no holds barred confrontation where pressure point strikes are most certainly allowed. I understand what you are saying and I hate to nitpick, it's just my opinion. Practically speaking, Fedor is the baddest man on the planet but technically speaking, I am not so sure. I welcome other opinions on this, show me where I am right or where I am wrong.
 
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There are no active duty military personnel who could beat good MMA fighters on a regular basis in a no rules street fight.

US military instructors even pointed this out in a video a few years ago. This was right around the time they started to call in MMA experts to teach the troops how to fight better.
 

guest301

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With all due respect, I am not talking about the average miltary guy or even the average Green Beret or Airborne Ranger. I am talking about the upper echolon guys in groups like the Delta Force, Navy Seals or other secretive groups we may not be aware of. I am not even talking about the average guy in those groups but the best of the best. I am also talking about the elite 10th to 12th degree black belts who would never grace a cage to fight for sport who might be able to take a guy like Fedor or Couture out quite easily. I also want it understood that I am not talking about fighting guys like Fedor and Couture in their enviroment with the rules they are used too(no pressure point strikes). I am talking about a no holds barred fight(no weapons) with a real martial artist who is trained to kill quickly with his hands. How would guys like Couture and Fedor stand up?

Ps..I know some of those degreed black belts are kind of hokey and some of those titles are not well earned.
 
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The MMA guys would wreck them on average. It's probably better to start a new thread if you want more discussion on the topic though. It's off-topic for this thread, and the subject has been beaten to death for years on other boards.
 

guest301

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Maybe the many boards you obviously troll around on but this topic has been discussed very little around here.
 

White Shogun

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There were many upper level black belts who took and could not pass the Gracie challenge years ago, with no rules. Every single one of them ended up quitting due to strikes or was choked out.

In the early days of the UFC most of the fights were billed as 'style vs style,' and well, back in those days BJJ won most of the fights decisively. These days though it does take more than a good BJJ game to win most MMA matches.

I hate to do this to you Aragorn, but pressure point stuff in actual fighting is BS. That stuff you see on commercials or 'documentaries' where the instructor strikes someone 4 or 5 times in different parts of the body and the target falls over is just plain bunk, man. I'm sorry. There is no pressure point strike for the KO as effective as a 'pressure point' strike with a fist to the point of the chin. If you can pull off precise, targeted strikes like the alleged PP masters can do , hitting someone full on the chin should be no problem. But they don't because they can't...

There are some military guys who train MMA, but that often has little to do with their military training, it's stuff they do on their own. Yes, some are now taught basic grappling and JJ, too, which in my opinion is ridiculous - it's worthwhile only to secure mount and escape back to your feet. In real combat, weapons are the things that count.

The guy who will beat Fedor in 'real life' is the guy who will pretend to be his friend and stick a shank in his neck when he isn't looking.
 

guest301

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White Shogun said:
There were many upper level black belts who took and could not pass the Gracie challenge years ago, with no rules. Every single one of them ended up quitting due to strikes or was choked out.

In the early days of the UFC most of the fights were billed as 'style vs style,' and well, back in those days BJJ won most of the fights decisively. These days though it does take more than a good BJJ game to win most MMA matches.

I hate to do this to you Aragorn, but pressure point stuff in actual fighting is BS. That stuff you see on commercials or 'documentaries' where the instructor strikes someone 4 or 5 times in different parts of the body and the target falls over is just plain bunk, man. I'm sorry. There is no pressure point strike for the KO as effective as a 'pressure point' strike with a fist to the point of the chin. If you can pull off precise, targeted strikes like the alleged PP masters can do , hitting someone full on the chin should be no problem. But they don't because they can't...

There are some military guys who train MMA, but that often has little to do with their military training, it's stuff they do on their own. Yes, some are now taught basic grappling and JJ, too, which in my opinion is ridiculous - it's worthwhile only to secure mount and escape back to your feet. In real combat, weapons are the things that count.

The guy who will beat Fedor in 'real life' is the guy who will pretend to be his friend and stick a shank in his neck when he isn't looking.

I respect your opinion and you make some good points, but I am not completely sold on it. I have had a chance to talk to some multi degreed black belts and have brought up the UFC and MMA in our conversations and they respect MMA and the attention they have brought to mixed martial arts but they have also pointed out to me certain holes in the typical MMA fighter game that can be exploited. It may be just talk, but the jury is still a little out in my mind but I am leaning in your direction. Of course, there is nothing typical in Fedor's game, he's the best there is.
 
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...they have also pointed out to me certain holes in the typical MMA fighter game that can be exploited.

That is not "just talk" that is plain fact. If you want to see a list of the "holes" in MMA, just examine their list of banned actions. Everything that is truly dangerous to a fighter is banned. Obviously, those things that are truly dangerous would make the core of a real attack/defense.

The toughest, most skilled martial artist I ever met (a Nam-vet Marine who killed many people, mainly with guns but some with bare hands), put it this way: he was confident he could take down any heavyweight champ, but he couldn't "go ten rounds" with those guys. I got his point: real fights are over FAST.

Training MMA makes you tough, no doubt.

But if you aren't ready for eye clawing, throat crushing, nut kicking, hair pulling, finger breaking, and biting, it's best to avoid getting in a real fight.

The sad part is, training in MMA (or any martial art, for that matter), actually habituates you NOT to rely on those primitive methods, so in the end, such training may be completely counterproductive when it comes to winning a real fight.
 

White Shogun

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Biting, finger breaking and pulling somebody's hair will not end a 'real fight.' Hell, watching two girls fight should prove that.

Throat crushing and nut kicking, of course, are fight enders but it isn't that easy to chop someone in the throat, or kick them in the nuts for that matter. Especially when they are looking for it, unlike MMA fighters in a sanctioned bout.

You can't overlook the fact that MMA fighters and boxers are used to getting hit, and are likely to have a much higher threshold of pain than the average person. They will also be in much better physical condition than your average Joe.

Obviously, trying to fight an MMA fighter at his own game in the street would be pointless. Again, weapons are the key to surviving a real confrontation. You cannot overlook the need for the proper mindset, either. Most people simply do not have it in them to fight, even when their backs are against the wall.

Of course you should try disabling strikes such as throat chops and nut shots when faced with a street confrontation, but they aren't uber-lethal secret techniques that are guaranteed to win any confrontation, with any opponent. They're really just another tool to have in your arsenal - along with your knife and .40.
 
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Good points, Shogun. A 6th degree blackbelt, who made his living teaching martial arts, once told me, if you are really focused only on self-defense, carry a gun and learn how to use that.

As for hair pulling, please bear with me so I can clarify my point. I did not mean to imply it was a fight ender, but it can provide a crucial advantage, one that is against the rules in MMA. Much like wearing a judo gi, giving your attacker something to grab onto and pull you around with, provides him a huge advantage. If I remember correctly, some early UFC fighters used hair pulling to their advantage, including Gracie.

Also, I am not just talking about throat strikes, which can be devastating but dependent on your striking skill; I am talking about grabbing the throat and squeezing the windpipe: the "old fashioned" pre-jujitsu choke!Having someone put both his hands around your neck and crush your windpipe with his thumbs is extremely hard to stop, and profoundly effective, yet of course totally illegal and not taught in martial arts.

Biting may not sound like much, but imagine this scenario: someone grabbing your hair with two hands, or with one on your throat, and pulling you in to bite your nose and/or ears off.Yeah, not pleasant, and totally "against the rules", but pretty much all your martial arts just went out the window. You better be strong enough to push him/her off of you, or you are in deep trouble. Even just trying to push that attack off will probably lead to your fingers being bitten severely. Probably your best response is "gouge his eyes out" and "crush his windpipe", but WOOOPS, all your hours in the dojo did not prepare you to react that way!

Just ask Evander Holyfield if biting is a fight-ender! Ha, I guess that is a bad example.

Edited by: 89Glory
 

guest301

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89Glory said:
Biting may not sound like much, but imagine this scenario: someone grabbing your hair with two hands, or with one on your throat, and pulling you in to bite your nose and/or ears off.Yeah, not pleasant, and totally "against the rules", but pretty much all your martial arts just went out the window. You better be strong enough to push him/her off of you, or you are in deep trouble. Even just trying to push that attack off will probably lead to your fingers being bitten severely. Probably your best response is "gouge his eyes out" and "crush his windpipe", but WOOOPS, all your hours in the dojo did not prepare you to react that way!

Just ask Evander Holyfield if biting is a fight-ender! Ha, I guess that is a bad example.

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White Shogun

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89Glory said:
Just ask Evander Holyfield if biting is a fight-ender! Ha, I guess that is a bad example.

Thanks for the clarification, Glory. Essentially, I agree with you because any of the things you mentioned are tools that a person can use in a fight. Desperate times require desperate measures and all that. They're just not my personal first choice of things I'd think of to try, they're more fall back options or techniques of opportunity, if whatever else you're using isn't working.

You're right though, maybe the Holyfield fight is a bad example, because he beat Tyson's ass after the first bite, soundly enough that Tyson bit him again. The only reason that fight ended on a bite was because the ref stopped it, not because Holyfield couldn't continue.
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freedom1

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You think Fedor couldn't bite, eye gouge, or crush someone's wind pipe? I bet he could even pull hair if he knew those were agreed upon rules.

The military guys are great at what they do, i.e., using weapons and sneaking up on people. In any kind of even hand to hand match up, the top military guy wouldn't last a minute against a top MMA guy.

It's just two completely different things.
 
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I think you are missing the point, freedom1. The point is, there are very effective techniques that MMA neither teaches you to use nor prepares you to defend. Obviously Fedor is a really tough guy. Here is the point: Fedor fighting "dirty" would beat Fedor fighting "by the rules".

"Dirty" fighting is against the rules specifically because it is too dangerous to the fighters to allow it. Think about that. Once you realize that fighting "dirty" is more effective, comments proclaiming MMA fighters are automatically better than military fighters are just silly.

Any advantage an MMA guy would have in a life-or-death fight is because he is a professional fighter, so he is extremely fit, fast, and tough. Yes, obviously, being extremely fit, fast, and tough helps you in any fight, dirty included.

But being trained in techniques that would not work in a dirty fight, is just plain counter-productive. Think about it, and use common sense. Since the Gracie revolution, MMA guys have to train a massive amount of time on the ground, just to compete with the ju-jutsu and wrestling guys.

But allowing eye-gouging eliminates just about 100% of all ground technique, rendering all of that training completely useless, if not counterproductive. I.e., some dumb-a$$ MMA guys tries to double-leg me as a set up for some ground-and-pound, and he is going to have my thumbs so deep in his eye sockets so fast he won't know what the frick is going on.

This doesn't take much imagination, does it? Let's talk about the really nasty effects of clawing people, shall we? The last thing you want to do is try to wrestle or even get close to a dirty fighter. MMA does not even prepare you to think in those terms, and thereby actually hurts your life-or-death instincts.

Last point here: MMA fighting is inherently rule and location dependent. For example, didn't Fedor get thrown on his head by somebody in Pride (a perfect 5-point Greco-Roman wresting toss)? If Fedor is being thrown on anything but a springy ring floor, Fedor's head is broken and he is done. Do you see what I mean? In "real life" combat, Greco-Roman wrestling, with all of its nasty high throws, may be a lot more effective than MMA. But it is rendered weak by the rules and conditions of safe MMA fighting.

Fedor is the baddest MMA fighter, by far, no doubt. But let's not get carried away.
 

guest301

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You make some solid points 89Glory. The guy that threw Fedor on his head was muscle bound black wrestler Kevin Randleman, but he got his ass kicked just a little bit later by Fedor for his trouble.
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I agree with you about the eye gouging being a effective way to fight a ground and pounder. Glad it's against the rules.
 

White_Savage

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"Dirty" fighting techniques you cannot use in a real fight are something that will always remain speculative, as well as something that no one can be said to be really expert at, because no one gouges each others eyes out in practice, as opposed to actually striking/choking, one another etc.

If you got into a street fight with a top MMA fighter, HE would be allowed to bite, gouge, and kick your nuts too, and with his physical conditioning and generally better grasp of body dynamics, would probably win. ESPECIALLY Fedor, because he doesn't have a single move or some amazing physical attribute (he is not supremely faster, stronger, more powerful, or more enduring than alot of the people he beats.) He is an improvisational artist, his art is human unarmed combat, and he could probably "improvise" better than most all your "street fighters"
 
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