With Vitali Klitschko the heavyweight champion of the world and men like Andrew Golota,Oleg Maskaev,Wlad Klitschko,Alexander Dimitrenko,Ruslan Chagaev,Nicolai Valuev and others,I would like to see the heavyweight division top ten predominately white in the next few years.I would also like to see some white Americans in the mix.
Europeans in boxing
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
One of the few white american heavyweights that is ranked
right now is Joe Mesi. He is still undefeated after about
30 fights.We shall see as he should eventually get a title shot.It's amazing to me how so many washed up old
fighters like Tyson and Holyfield still get so many big
money fights.Let's see some new faces soon.
right now is Joe Mesi. He is still undefeated after about
30 fights.We shall see as he should eventually get a title shot.It's amazing to me how so many washed up old
fighters like Tyson and Holyfield still get so many big
money fights.Let's see some new faces soon.
Mesi has a lot of potential,but has an injury that may end his career.Why can't we in the USA still produce men like Jack Dempsey,Jim Corbett,Jim Jeffires,Rocky Marciano,Gene Tunney and Max Baer?The toughest white american I've seen was Jerry Quarry.If they had a cruiserweight class when he fought he would have been champion.
We are a race that produced Vikings and Knights.Now our young peopleplay computer games,eat junk food and watch Mr.Rogers.I'd like to see white kids get tough again.The media does a good job of brianwashing them into thinking they can't do certain things but the parents have the task of encouraging them and getting them into sports feeding them nutritious meals.In a few years we could be dominate in all sports.We can do it!!
We are a race that produced Vikings and Knights.Now our young peopleplay computer games,eat junk food and watch Mr.Rogers.I'd like to see white kids get tough again.The media does a good job of brianwashing them into thinking they can't do certain things but the parents have the task of encouraging them and getting them into sports feeding them nutritious meals.In a few years we could be dominate in all sports.We can do it!!
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
I'm not sure but didn't Quarry fight Ali back in the day.
Maybe I'm thinking of someone else but if it is the same
guy,he was outstanding and gave Ali a very tough fight.
I always thought Quarry was from Canada.Thanks for the
info Gary.By the way,I totally agree that we need to get
out children out playing sports more instead of just
wasting away in front of the tv.
Maybe I'm thinking of someone else but if it is the same
guy,he was outstanding and gave Ali a very tough fight.
I always thought Quarry was from Canada.Thanks for the
info Gary.By the way,I totally agree that we need to get
out children out playing sports more instead of just
wasting away in front of the tv.
Quarry was from Cailfornia.There was a man from Canada named George Chuvalo who foughtAli twice.Chuvalo was a strong guy who could take anybody's punch.By the way speaking about tough white guys-the UFC has had some very tough guys Ken Shamrock,Dan Severn,Tank Abbott,Don Fry,Mark Coleman and Randy Couture.These are white guys that nobody is going to push around.One more thing to think about how many good white fighters did we miss during the cold war because of the iron curtian?The Eastern Europeans have been able to fight as pro's for 12 years or so and already we have a white heavyweight champ and 2 or 3 good white contenders.Foreman,Ali and Frazier should consider themselves lucky not to have had Russians,Poles and Ukrainians to contend with!
Boxing is brutal! The only people that can stand the pain are people who are already so desperate that they would do just about anything. I'm sure nearly all pro-boxers are from poor backgrounds. White society has done such a good job in providing better opportunity for its youth that there is no reason for them to choose boxing as a career path. The only white societies that can now produce such desperate people are the ones that were foolish enough to experiement with communism. Soon they too will have better opportunities for their kids and there won't be any white boxers again.
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
I don't totally agree with that assertion jaxvid.Marciano
was a incredible boxer and dominated during a era where
he had other oportunities.Look at Tommy Morrison,his uncle was none other than the late John Wayne,I don't
think he had to box. I could point out many examples with
guys like Bobby Cyzz, Wayne McCulough,Lou Savarese, among others.I do agree that most good boxers are from
a poorer back ground.I think whites will be competetive
regardless because they out think alot of their opponents. They also have better stamina on the average
than blacks. Probably the biggest thing I see is that
whites in general don't like to street fight as much
as Blacks and Hispanics do.Whites & Asians are usually
more easy going.So for this reason,sometimes it might come more natural to them.
was a incredible boxer and dominated during a era where
he had other oportunities.Look at Tommy Morrison,his uncle was none other than the late John Wayne,I don't
think he had to box. I could point out many examples with
guys like Bobby Cyzz, Wayne McCulough,Lou Savarese, among others.I do agree that most good boxers are from
a poorer back ground.I think whites will be competetive
regardless because they out think alot of their opponents. They also have better stamina on the average
than blacks. Probably the biggest thing I see is that
whites in general don't like to street fight as much
as Blacks and Hispanics do.Whites & Asians are usually
more easy going.So for this reason,sometimes it might come more natural to them.
Marciano's only other opportunities were to work in the shoe factories
in Brockton, MA; try playing semi-pro baseball; or stay in the army,
where he learned to box. Rocky tried semi-pro baseball, but quit
when the Cubs cut him. He supposedly was a better ballplayer in
his youth until he threw his arm out.
However, Brockton is a very blue collar city. Also, boxing is huge there.
Tommy Morrison also grew up in a poor, rural area. He was in Toughman competitions at 13.
in Brockton, MA; try playing semi-pro baseball; or stay in the army,
where he learned to box. Rocky tried semi-pro baseball, but quit
when the Cubs cut him. He supposedly was a better ballplayer in
his youth until he threw his arm out.
However, Brockton is a very blue collar city. Also, boxing is huge there.
Tommy Morrison also grew up in a poor, rural area. He was in Toughman competitions at 13.
In America, boxing clubs are almost exclusively in the inner city. Troubled black kids are often recruited to these clubs and even given free memberships as a supposed better alternate to causing trouble on the street. I know several black kids that go to these clubs and absolutely no white kids. There is very little white interest in boxing in america. How many white people do you know who have ever been in a boxing gym? It's commonplace for blacks.
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
I think that you guys have taken what I said wrong.I agree that whites will never dominate boxing mostly
because of economical advantages that many whites
enjoy.We have on the average, alot of choices with very
few choosing boxing in this country.However,I do think
that there will always be a small but significant group
of whites from here & abroad that will still continue to
box and excel at it.I do not think that whites will ever
totatlly dissapear from boxing.There may not be as many
on the average,but take the size of the population of
whites,and it will make up for it.For instance blacks
only make up from 11 - 13% of the population in the US.
If anything,the hispanics will dominate before the blacks
do in boxing.
because of economical advantages that many whites
enjoy.We have on the average, alot of choices with very
few choosing boxing in this country.However,I do think
that there will always be a small but significant group
of whites from here & abroad that will still continue to
box and excel at it.I do not think that whites will ever
totatlly dissapear from boxing.There may not be as many
on the average,but take the size of the population of
whites,and it will make up for it.For instance blacks
only make up from 11 - 13% of the population in the US.
If anything,the hispanics will dominate before the blacks
do in boxing.
We in America are soft and somewhat intimidated.The Russians,Poles and other Eastern Europeans after what they have been through seem almost fearless.They believe they can play basketball,they believe they can beat blacks in boxing,so with that belief they just go ahead and do it.There are millions to be made in boxing, so why let blacks make it all?In a few short years the top ten heayweights in the world will be from eastern europe so will most of the worlds srtongest men competitors.So while americans kids eat their twinkies the Russians will be best able to represent our race with dignity.
Boxing is socio-economic,a lowbrow sport,always has been,always will be.Back in the 20's,30's and on into the 50's when whites dominated most of them were poor slum-child gang-bangers.When whites in America prospered in the coming years and moved to the suburbs and a better way of life,it was the blacks and hispanics who replaced them in the poor neighbourhoods.And guess who dominates boxing now?Whites just have other options,before they get into boxing,if they choose to,and when they get out.It's like blacks are desperate to succeed,more so than whites because their options are limited.I remember when Sean O'Grady took-up boxing initialy to pay his way through medical school.What gang-banging black can do that?Someone mentioned Jerry Quarry earlier. What a warrior he was,he would not take a step back he just kept coming and coming.His first fight against Joe Frazier was a brawling classic.Those in the industry always thought that Quarry was on his way down,then he would surprise alot of people with a big win,like when he mangled Earnie Shavers in one round.Quarry just fought in the wrong era.So when you talk about unsung white sports legends,Irish Jerry Quarry tops the list.
Here is a post from another forum which concentrates on the Klitschko bros. about this thread on our site:
Dihya Kahina wrote:
"I can't say whether the site is racistic or not. There is nothing wrong to talk about sportman with european ancestors, but......the people who are discussing at the topic about boxing on that forum are really pathetic: No balls, no strong personality; just screaming children."
So you guys get some balls and personality and stop screaming like children!
Dihya Kahina wrote:
"I can't say whether the site is racistic or not. There is nothing wrong to talk about sportman with european ancestors, but......the people who are discussing at the topic about boxing on that forum are really pathetic: No balls, no strong personality; just screaming children."
So you guys get some balls and personality and stop screaming like children!
Colonel Callan
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 363
Blacks, mestizos (what many Mexicans and Central Americans are)and Indians actually have thicker skulls on average than Whites. This is no joke. This gives them an advantage when being hit square in the face, or on the side of the jaw. While these peoples usually have what seems to be bigger jaws, the rear of their jaws, where they connect to the skull, is narrower than that of Whites, another advantage against certain punches. This is due to Whites having larger cranial cavaties. Not PC, but true. Of course, there have been many White fighters with outstanding chins - and I doubt any fighter has ever had the chin of Tex Cobb. He might not have been the best fighter, but he was basically impossible to hurt with a headshot. In a brawl in Philly, when he used the "n" word at a table with Ernie Shavers, a brawl broke out, and someone hit Cobb over the head with a baseball bat. The bat broke, and Cobb beat the daylights out of the guy who swung that bat. No joke.
However - Whites generally have an advantage in endurance and almost always in strength over these peoples, if not an advantage in explosiveness in some cases. This is why Whites easily rule NHB fighting. It is worth noting that some contests have tried to change their formats to match boxing, in the hopes of getting more non-White winners on the podium. You can bet establishment tools like Sen. McCain wail about NHB fighting because of the success of so many Whites.
Whites need more participants in boxing. Then you'll see their numbers rise. I believe there is an economic element - but it's because these days, the "poor" get so much handed to them, including free sports training (not just in boxing) - that even suburban Whites at a local rec center cannot get. The influx of E. European fighters has the establishment scrambling. Promising White fighters were derailed all the time in the 60's and 70's by promoters, the networks, and so on. If enough Euros get into it, the powers that be will have problems stopping the tide.
However - Whites generally have an advantage in endurance and almost always in strength over these peoples, if not an advantage in explosiveness in some cases. This is why Whites easily rule NHB fighting. It is worth noting that some contests have tried to change their formats to match boxing, in the hopes of getting more non-White winners on the podium. You can bet establishment tools like Sen. McCain wail about NHB fighting because of the success of so many Whites.
Whites need more participants in boxing. Then you'll see their numbers rise. I believe there is an economic element - but it's because these days, the "poor" get so much handed to them, including free sports training (not just in boxing) - that even suburban Whites at a local rec center cannot get. The influx of E. European fighters has the establishment scrambling. Promising White fighters were derailed all the time in the 60's and 70's by promoters, the networks, and so on. If enough Euros get into it, the powers that be will have problems stopping the tide.
Colonel Callan
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 363
PS -- I should also have mentioned that Whites are known to take body shots better than blacks or "latinos" for some reason. One may be that Whites usually have denser bones in the rib cage, and larger rib cages as well. The dark folks also fall over much easier from rabbit punches. I don't know why, but I was taught that way back when, when I was in Diamond Belt and Golden Gloves matches in jr. high. Years later, a police officer who was a defense instructor I had, told me the same thing. Whites should concentrate on punching these people in the side of the neck, and square in the chest. I believe a few others on the net have pointed this out.
G
Guest
Guest
Hopkins Floyd Mayweather Jr Barrera Manny Pac Winky Wright are the P4P best fighters in the world and guess what none of these fighters is white. Vitali is merely the best of a bad crop of Hws.Colonel Callan said:
Vitali is the best heavyweight in the world and the top ten include other whites like Andrew Gotola,Wlad Ktichscko,Oleg Maskeav,Corrie Sanders,,Joe Mesi,Sergi Lyahovich who just beat the lastest black hope Dominic Guinn,Nicloi Value is undefeated There are 8 whites in the top ten and the best propects are all white from eastern europe.Vitali beat Danny Williams so badI though they would get him for a hate crime!!
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
First off with Klitschko,he has never been knocked down
let alone knocked out.Never!Lenox Lewis has been knocked
out cold,same with Larry Holmes,R.Bowe,Mike Tyson,
Foreman,Ali,etc. I respect Holyfield than these other
guys because he could take a punch as good as anyone &
he was a good champ.If ?Klitschko continues to remain
the champ,& stays undefeated,he will go down as the
greatest ever.Right there with Rocky Marciano.By the
way,Roy Jones ducked certain fighters.He also didn't
always have the best competition or was it that he made
them look bad.He should have fought the guy from Poland.
I can't recall his name,but he is 49-1 and has been
trying to fight Jones for years.Jones refuses to fight
over in Europe so that was one of the stopping points.
By the way,Jones may be done now after getting knocked
out and looking like crap in his last couple of fights!
let alone knocked out.Never!Lenox Lewis has been knocked
out cold,same with Larry Holmes,R.Bowe,Mike Tyson,
Foreman,Ali,etc. I respect Holyfield than these other
guys because he could take a punch as good as anyone &
he was a good champ.If ?Klitschko continues to remain
the champ,& stays undefeated,he will go down as the
greatest ever.Right there with Rocky Marciano.By the
way,Roy Jones ducked certain fighters.He also didn't
always have the best competition or was it that he made
them look bad.He should have fought the guy from Poland.
I can't recall his name,but he is 49-1 and has been
trying to fight Jones for years.Jones refuses to fight
over in Europe so that was one of the stopping points.
By the way,Jones may be done now after getting knocked
out and looking like crap in his last couple of fights!
G
Guest
Guest
Darius was outboxed by a guy RJJ dropped twice in 1 round .Gary said:
Vitali is the best of a bad crop of HWs
But P4P he is not even top 20
Jones was Ko'd in his last two fights and the Tiger has never been stopped.Pound 4 pound the best in the world are Kostya Tszyu,Scotty Harrison and Ricky Hatton.Vitali is 250 lbs and can beat any other fighter in the world at any wieght.He beat Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams like a couple of rented mules and chased Lewis into retirement.Vitali is a throwback to the very great fighters of th Heavyweight class like Jack Dempsey,Gene Tunney,Jim Jeffries and Rocky Marciano.
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
Keep up the good work Gary.Your boxing knowledge is
very interesting.Let's keep this conversation going.
very interesting.Let's keep this conversation going.
G
Guest
Guest
Gary said:
This post tells me you dont know anything about boxing
DM LOST to one of RJJ's victims
Ricky Hatton is a scrub who has been feasting on bums his whole carreer he has almost as manyfights as DLH but he has yet to be in a Superfight.
Kosta is a P4P Great fighter but Barrera Manny Pac DLH Hopkins Toney are ALL better.
Scott Harrison
Vitali Relies on his height nothing more P4P he is not even top 20
Your P4P rankings are based upon nothing but race.
If not tell me why Hatton and Harrison are better fighters then Floyd jr Hopkins Toney Barrera Manny Pac Morales Marquez DLH Trinidad ect.
Your opinions are based on race.Who cares about P4P.They say an ant is stronger than a lion P4P so Jones is the ant and Vitali is the lion.Let Jones fight the Tiger and we'll see who wins.Let Toney fight Vitali and we'll see who wins!Vitali is 6'8 250lbs bring on any black man you want and we'll see who wins!!Dempsey and Marciano were the two best of all time-Rocky was 45 when he sparred with Clay for there Computer fight and Rocky chased him out of the ring with body shots{by the way Rocky won the computer fight by a KO}.In a few years maybe sooner the whole heavyweight class will look like the Worlds Strongest Man contest all Europeans,Big and White!!
G
Guest
Guest
Marciano was overrated he never beat an alltime great in his prime. Dempsey was great though.Gary said:
Neither are the greatest HWs of alltime
Alltime best
1 Joe Louis
2 Muhamed Ali
3 Larry Holmes/Jack Johnson
4 Lennox Lewis
5 Rocky Marciano
6 Gene Tunney
7 Jack Dempsey
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Sonny Liston
But i guess only White fighter get into your Alltime list