Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80! -- Part Two

The Master said:
I cant believe you guys are still in the same pattern for years now bitching on Pierre Carraz, French way of training etc. Someone has even now the pic of Carraz as a profile picture, what a sarcam

And RCSMAN trying to defend Pierre Carraz, please stop using capitals letters, franchement ne mets plus de majuscule ni trop de points d'exclamation mon vieux, cela n'aide pas ta cause à mon avis.

To the guys that bitch on his coach and on the fact that Christophe is not running 9'7X time, I want to say, you have a serious issue, I mean a mental issue. It is not because you have decided in your confortable couch, that Christophe has the potential to run 9'7X and 19'6X, that it gives you the right to bitch like that.

I was following this thread at the very begining, and I follow Christophe since 2007, I was just hoping him to be a sub-10 / sub-20 runner, and he did it many times and he made me so happy. But that was it, that was all I wanted, I believe he is is 100% natural, how come he could run times that are done only by roids / juiced muscles freaks ?

It is like asking a bodybuilder to be as big as Phil Health without taking HGH/ Insulin and Steroid...

But some guys have decided that he has the potential to do it so it must be true. And that he should train with americans (with Justin Galin, Marion Jones, or Tyson Gay maybe?).

Personnaly I don't mind if Christophe is regressing, he gave me more joy than I would have expected and I don't project my personal issue on him.

I came here in 2009 because I was happy to find a thread on my hero, not because of some racism toward black people because I'm not racist, but this thread is just useless now.
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OH PLEASE! Lemaitre has been mis-trained from the get-go. Everything he did early on was on his own talent. Caraz himself stated earlier that Weight training was not necessary, then a year later he says its necessary, then again he says maybe it is not necessary...Caraz is not a elite sprint coach! case closed....and who brought racism regarding Lemaitre? Im not knocking anyone because of their race. Stop pointing fingers. Lemaitre could of been one of the best but decided to stay home with a incompetent coach and amateur track club that couldn't beat a American pre-school team!
 
The problem with the pro Carraz argument is that they go too far to the other extreme. People here just want balance. When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development.

No one is advocating Lemaitre taking drugs, or looking like a bodybuilder. You can go into gyms around this country and see girls doing squats with 135 pounds.

Look at the videos of Jimmy Vicaut, or Teddy Tahmgo. They are French, and they paid their dues in the weight room. This issue is not a “French” thing.

It's an advantage his competitors have over him that is OUTSIDE of drugs. A person with his amazing genetic gifts could easily achieve a squat of 400 lbs. He just has to go through a little pain like everyone else. Other coaches would not baby him.

It is frustrating to see someone with one in a million genetics not reach his full potential.
 
limitless said:
The problem with the pro Carraz argument is that they go too far to the other extreme. People here just want balance. When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development.

No one is advocating Lemaitre taking drugs, or looking like a bodybuilder. You can go into gyms around this country and see girls doing squats with 135 pounds.

Look at the videos of Jimmy Vicaut, or Teddy Tahmgo. They are French, and they paid their dues in the weight room. This issue is not a “French” thing.

It's an advantage his competitors have over him that is OUTSIDE of drugs. A person with his amazing genetic gifts could easily achieve a squat of 400 lbs. He just has to go through a little pain like everyone else. Other coaches would not baby him.

It is frustrating to see someone with one in a million genetics not reach his full potential.
Click to expand...
Lemitre or any natural elite Athlete should be able to squat double their bodyweight with a good trainer etc...I'm certain Lemaitre cannot squat double his bodyweight. The key is not building muscle size but building a high strength to bodyweight ratio; size or muscle density is a side effect. A 165 Pound Lemaitre that squats 200 pounds will be slower in the start where power is necessary than a 170 pound Lemaitre than can squat 340 pounds. When I played football, we all did heavy Squats and Dealifts to get stronger and improve our 40 time (start speed which Lemaitre lacks is more strength/ power related than pure speed) This is where Lemaitre fails and Caraz know nothing about.
 
elispeedster said:
OH PLEASE! Lemaitre has been mis-trained from the get-go. Everything he did early on was on his own talent. Caraz himself stated earlier that Weight training was not necessary, then a year later he says its necessary, then again he says maybe it is not necessary...Caraz is not a elite sprint coach! case closed....and who brought racism regarding Lemaitre? Im not knocking anyone because of their race. Stop pointing fingers. Lemaitre could of been one of the best but decided to stay home with a incompetent coach and amateur track club that couldn't beat a American pre-school team!
Click to expand...


"OH PLEASE! Lemaitre has been mis-trained from the get-go. Everything he did early on was on his own talent. Caraz himself stated earlier that Weight training was not necessary, then a year later he says its necessary, then again he says maybe it is not necessary"


you earn money when you lie Elispeedster ?
 
limitless said:
The problem with the pro Carraz argument is that they go too far to the other extreme. People here just want balance. When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development.

No one is advocating Lemaitre taking drugs, or looking like a bodybuilder. You can go into gyms around this country and see girls doing squats with 135 pounds.

Look at the videos of Jimmy Vicaut, or Teddy Tahmgo. They are French, and they paid their dues in the weight room. This issue is not a “French” thing.

It's an advantage his competitors have over him that is OUTSIDE of drugs. A person with his amazing genetic gifts could easily achieve a squat of 400 lbs. He just has to go through a little pain like everyone else. Other coaches would not baby him.

It is frustrating to see someone with one in a million genetics not reach his full potential.
Click to expand...



"When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development."

really ? Can you tell me where is this information ?
 
The Master said:
I cant believe you guys are still in the same pattern for years now bitching on Pierre Carraz, French way of training etc. Someone has even now the pic of Carraz as a profile picture, what a sarcam

And RCSMAN trying to defend Pierre Carraz, please stop using capitals letters, franchement ne mets plus de majuscule ni trop de points d'exclamation mon vieux, cela n'aide pas ta cause à mon avis.

To the guys that bitch on his coach and on the fact that Christophe is not running 9'7X time, I want to say, you have a serious issue, I mean a mental issue. It is not because you have decided in your confortable couch, that Christophe has the potential to run 9'7X and 19'6X, that it gives you the right to bitch like that.

I was following this thread at the very begining, and I follow Christophe since 2007, I was just hoping him to be a sub-10 / sub-20 runner, and he did it many times and he made me so happy. But that was it, that was all I wanted, I believe he is is 100% natural, how come he could run times that are done only by roids / juiced muscles freaks ?

It is like asking a bodybuilder to be as big as Phil Health without taking HGH/ Insulin and Steroid...

But some guys have decided that he has the potential to do it so it must be true. And that he should train with americans (with Justin Galin, Marion Jones, or Tyson Gay maybe?).

Personnaly I don't mind if Christophe is regressing, he gave me more joy than I would have expected and I don't project my personal issue on him.

I came here in 2009 because I was happy to find a thread on my hero, not because of some racism toward black people because I'm not racist, but this thread is just useless now.
Click to expand...


Je ne défends aucune cause, je rappel des FAITS !

et les majuscules je les mets pour surligner les points essentiels que je ne peux pas expliquer à cause de mon mauvais anglais, rien de bien grave, pourquoi ça énerverait des gens...

J'explique à certaines personnes, qu'on ne peux dénigrer à distance une façon d'entrainer alors qu'on ne l'a connaît même pas, et qu'on ne peut pas dénigrer un entraineur qui a 50 ans d'expérience et qui a amener un sprinteur à un niveau extraordinaire, alors qu'ils ne connaissent RIEN de lui


l'adoration de Lemaitre ici s'est transformé en Christophe bashing, c'est juste stupide avec des propos totalement irrespectueux
 
I'm not bashing Lemaitre, I'm bashing you.

Abstract

Researchers have demonstrated that increases in strength result in increases in athletic performance, although the development of strength is still neglected in some sports. Our aim was to determine whether a simple in-season strength training program would result in increases in maximal squat strength and short sprint performance, in professional soccer players. Professional soccer players (n=17, age = 18.3 +/- 1.2 years, height = 1.79 +/- 0.06 m, body mass (BM) = 75.5 +/- 6.1 kg) completed one repetition maximum (1RM) back squat and sprint tests (5-, 10-, 20 m) before and after a six-week (2 x week) in-season strength training (85-90% 1RM) intervention. Strength training resulted in significant improvements in absolute and relative strength (pre: 125.4 +/- 13.8 kg, post 149.3 +/- 16.2 kg, p < 0.001, Cohen's d = 0.62; 1RM/BM pre: 1.66 +/- 0.24 kg.kg-1, post 1.96 +/- 0.29 kg.kg-1, p < 0.001, Cohen's d = 0.45; respectively). Similarly, there were small yet significant improvements in sprint performance over 5 m (pre 1.11 +/- 0.04 s, post 1.05 +/- 0.05 s, p < 0.001, Cohen's d = 0.55) 10 m (pre 1.83 +/- 0.05 s, post 1.78 +/- 0.05 s, p < 0.001, Cohen's d = 0.45) and 20 m (pre 3.09 +/- 0.07 s, post 3.05 +/- 0.05 s, p < 0.001, Cohen's d = 0.31). Changes in maximal squat strength appear to be reflected in improvements in short sprint performance highlighting the importance of developing maximal strength to improve short sprint performance. Moreover this demonstrates that these improvements can be achieved during the competitive season in professional soccer players.

Copyright (C) 2016 by the National Strength & Conditioning Association.
 
RCSMAN,
I dont have the research findings of the various studies at my quick disposal, but it is well document and has been proven in study after study that weight training, and heavy weight training in particular, increases sprint speeds. This is not due primarily to increases in muscle mass as most people automatically assume when hearing this. If that were the case then bodybuilders would be the best sprinters. The reason is because performing heavy squats trains the body to recruit more muscle fibers to complete the task at hand. When you flex your bicept as hard as you can you may think you are flexing every fiber in your arm but you are not, not by a long shot. Training with heavy weights will increase that percentage of activated fibers. The athlete who can explode out of the blocks recruiting 5% more of their muscle fibers in order to do so is going to win every time, all other factors being equal. Period. If you really dont know this then I suggest you educate yourself on the subject. Athletes who do not do this are giving up a huge advantage to their competition.
 
Texas Flash said:
RCSMAN,
I dont have the research findings of the various studies at my quick disposal, but it is well document and has been proven in study after study that weight training, and heavy weight training in particular, increases sprint speeds. This is not due primarily to increases in muscle mass as most people automatically assume when hearing this. If that were the case then bodybuilders would be the best sprinters. The reason is because performing heavy squats trains the body to recruit more muscle fibers to complete the task at hand. When you flex your bicept as hard as you can you may think you are flexing every fiber in your arm but you are not, not by a long shot. Training with heavy weights will increase that percentage of activated fibers. The athlete who can explode out of the blocks recruiting 5% more of their muscle fibers in order to do so is going to win every time, all other factors being equal. Period. If you really dont know this then I suggest you educate yourself on the subject. Athletes who do not do this are giving up a huge advantage to their competition.
Click to expand...

Hi Texas, just to beat my buddy RCSMAN to it....'YOU KNOW NOTHING OF SPRINT'.
 
I Know some of you are getting sick of me...but I had to add this in...It is not just Caraz's masterful training that is suspect, but his confidence level. I clearly remember reading just before the 2012 Games that Caraz told the media and Lemaitre that a bronze medal is possible, so focus on third place don't focus on Usain Bolt as you will never beat him, this is just reality. What Coach would tell their pupil who has potential to be one of the best, that he cant beat the best, realistic or not? So what happened, Lemaitre came in 5th.....Lemaitre will never improve on his best times if you have a coach telling you to strive for third. Lemaitre ran a 19.80 and a 9.92, this alone should motivate him psychologically that he can beat Bolt eventually. This motivation may not help him run 19.10 or 9.6, but he would improve on his bests. Otherwise, why bother since my Coach tells me I will never beat him? Seriously this is the Caraz way of thinking

PS: Hey I hope Lemaitre proves me wrong this year. I will gladly apologize. We shall see...
 
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I wonder, does Christophe understand written English. If he has a Facebook page it would be mind blowing if one of his "friends" linked him to this never ending thread. Actually he'd be both flattered and crushed at the same time. Best to wait for his retirement before unleashing this fanboy diary of his career. I doubt ole Carraz has a Facebook page, but if he did this thread might be too much for his old ticker. His last words might be: "They know nothing about sprint!!! (croaking sound)"
 
limitless said:
The problem with the pro Carraz argument is that they go too far to the other extreme. People here just want balance. When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development.

No one is advocating Lemaitre taking drugs, or looking like a bodybuilder. You can go into gyms around this country and see girls doing squats with 135 pounds.

Look at the videos of Jimmy Vicaut, or Teddy Tahmgo. They are French, and they paid their dues in the weight room. This issue is not a “French” thing.

It's an advantage his competitors have over him that is OUTSIDE of drugs. A person with his amazing genetic gifts could easily achieve a squat of 400 lbs. He just has to go through a little pain like everyone else. Other coaches would not baby him.

It is frustrating to see someone with one in a million genetics not reach his full potential.
Click to expand...


Limitless,

I repeat my question :

Can you tell me where is this information (squats) about Christophe ?
 
RCSMAN said:
Limitless,

I repeat my question :

Can you tell me where is this information (squats) about Christophe ?
Click to expand...
I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe it's based on the videos of him weight training where the weights of the plates are plainly visible.
What do you know or not know on this matter.
Thanks for the race link.
 
In your 4:13 PM post from yesterday, you quoted me, then added a tag question. Here is what appeared in your post.


"When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development."

really ? Can you tell me where is this information ?

I took this, and anyone else would as question asking if there was any empirical data available indicating the weight training exercise squats are correlated with increased short term power in running.

I gave you a peer reviewed article. You lost the argument, and are now trying to change the argument via editing. Anyone reading this can go back and look at the thread.
 
limitless said:
In your 4:13 PM post from yesterday, you quoted me, then added a tag question. Here is what appeared in your post.


"When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development."

really ? Can you tell me where is this information ?

I took this, and anyone else would as question asking if there was any empirical data available indicating the weight training exercise squats are correlated with increased short term power in running.

I gave you a peer reviewed article. You lost the argument, and are now trying to change the argument via editing. Anyone reading this can go back and look at the thread.
Click to expand...
In defense of RCSMAN (yes, I cannot believe it either), I don't think he is questioning the fact Squats help in short term power but rather the fact Lemaitre Max Squat is 135 (which I dont think it is, but I cant see Lemaitre doing more than 275 pounds which is not good for his caliber level of Athlete. 350 pounds or more should be the norm at his weight, and it is achievable, again with a right coach etc.)
 
fernchris55 said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe it's based on the videos of him weight training where the weights of the plates are plainly visible.
What do you know or not know on this matter.
Thanks for the race link.
Click to expand...


"it's based on the videos of him weight training where the weights of the plates are plainly visible."

:) FANTASTIC
 
limitless said:
In your 4:13 PM post from yesterday, you quoted me, then added a tag question. Here is what appeared in your post.


"When a world class athlete is only doing squats with 135 pounds, he is not even approaching his full potential for power development."

really ? Can you tell me where is this information ?

I took this, and anyone else would as question asking if there was any empirical data available indicating the weight training exercise squats are correlated with increased short term power in running.

I gave you a peer reviewed article. You lost the argument, and are now trying to change the argument via editing. Anyone reading this can go back and look at the thread.
Click to expand...

WHAT ?

Absolutely not !

my question is about your affirmation (135 pound), where is this information ?
 
Lemaitre 2010.JPG Lemaitre 2015.jpg You said Lemaitre need to musculation, but we see his body change beetween 2010 and 2015. Maybe not enough for some people, but we see his new body don't avantage him, and in 2013-2014 taked less start. In 2010 Lemaitre training was 10 hours per weeks, now it's 2 training per day. The problem was not the quantity but the quality. Now it's sure Lemaitre has a better resistance between course. But his quality of stride is less.
In some interview, we can listen Lemaitre will return to training like 2010-2011. I hope it will be the key of success. But we never know we are used to listen interview of Lemaitre or Carraz say it will be good, but no good result.
His 10.14 is bad cause of +1.9 wind. But we need to wait Rome to have a good point of view, in his good years, it's where he ran really good the first time.
 
Madara said:
View attachment 1261 View attachment 1262 You said Lemaitre need to musculation, but we see his body change beetween 2010 and 2015. Maybe not enough for some people, but we see his new body don't avantage him, and in 2013-2014 taked less start. In 2010 Lemaitre training was 10 hours per weeks, now it's 2 training per day. The problem was not the quantity but the quality. Now it's sure Lemaitre has a better resistance between course. But his quality of stride is less.
In some interview, we can listen Lemaitre will return to training like 2010-2011. I hope it will be the key of success. But we never know we are used to listen interview of Lemaitre or Carraz say it will be good, but no good result.
His 10.14 is bad cause of +1.9 wind. But we need to wait Rome to have a good point of view, in his good years, it's where he ran really good the first time.
Click to expand...
The concern is not his body change, his body will change as he gets older...I'm more concerned with his strength to bodyweight ratio. This is the key, whether he looks more muscular or not, has his strength gone up to a point where he is squatting at least double his bodyweight (which is common amongst well trained athletes; usually amongst the elite, its 2.5x but I don't want to take it that far)
 
Elispeedster,
My coach, who was an olympic finalist, always preached that it was about getting a lane. If you get a lane then you are in the race. And on the day of the race anything can happen. A coach doesnt need to be blowing smoke up his athletes assess, but a coach should never tell his athletes to settle for third place when they have earned the right to be in the same race from which the winner will come and where anything can happen. I remember when Carraz said that and part of me wanted to throw up while the other part wanted to cry and then go kick Carraz's ass.

I'm guessing none of us really know what happens inside of Carraz's camp and what exactly Lemaitre's strength training regime is or is not, but we do know the statements he makes to the media. And that statement to me clearly signifies that he has taken Lemaitre as far as he can. A championship level coach who's goal is to take his athletes to the top of the podium would never make those statements. Having made those statements it is impossible for them not to have an effect on the mindset during training.
 
Madara said:
View attachment 1261 View attachment 1262 You said Lemaitre need to musculation, but we see his body change beetween 2010 and 2015. Maybe not enough for some people, but we see his new body don't avantage him, and in 2013-2014 taked less start. In 2010 Lemaitre training was 10 hours per weeks, now it's 2 training per day. The problem was not the quantity but the quality. Now it's sure Lemaitre has a better resistance between course. But his quality of stride is less.
In some interview, we can listen Lemaitre will return to training like 2010-2011. I hope it will be the key of success. But we never know we are used to listen interview of Lemaitre or Carraz say it will be good, but no good result.
His 10.14 is bad cause of +1.9 wind. But we need to wait Rome to have a good point of view, in his good years, it's where he ran really good the first time.
Click to expand...
This year from the few photos I have seen of him he looks even bigger across the shoulders and traps. That still doesn't mean he lifting to his max ability but he is putting in some work. I have seen many sprinters in the past get stronger and not get faster and even marginally regress.

I always felt that Carraz was training Lemaitre for the 200 meters but because of sponsorship and the media he just never has stated as much. His training ideas seem like something Pietro Mennea would have used.
 
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