CHAMPIONSHIPS

[Maple Leaf]

James:

Those drills are all for show and aren't worth the time of day. The coaches know who the best college players are anyway otherwise they would not be invited to the combine.

All the teams are not all spending 10 million dollars on wide outs. Hass, for example, would have signed for the minimum which is 700K to about 1 mil. for 1 year if he could. Actually he signed for much less as he signed for the change the practice squad guys get.Edited by: Maple Leaf

 

[whiteCB]

James: I think you missed the point. If, "Quickness off the line" is your reason why many receivers get cut, then any test over 10 yards is meaningless. You mentioned the cone and 60 yard drill. Neither would measure a receivers ability to handle contact off the line. It is not as if collegiate ball is touch-football or semi-contact: collegiate players are tackled and roughed-up as much as they are in the pros. All of these are meaningless measures of abstraction to justify fabricated biases. There is no way -no logical explanation- why a star collegiate player cannot at least find a job as number 4 or 5 receiver in the NFL. Mike Hass is the best example of this anywhere on this site today. In Hass' case, the player went from being the best in all of college to not even being allowed to start. If you believe all of that test stuff then you have been drinking their koolaid.

The drills at the combine are not perfect but they have proven useful gauges of potential NFL success. If  a team is going to spend 10 million on a wide out, they want to try and make an informed decision. There are too many stories of lousy combine numbers and great NFL success to mention. But there are even more stories of bad combine performances and failure to make a squad.


Mike Hass made a roster as a 6th round draft choice. He may have needed a year  or two of seasoning on the practice squad. I'd give him at least another year in the Bears system which is hampered by poor play  and instability at the quarterback position. Anyone expecting a rookie or second year wide receiver to immediately start over seasoned receivers in that team's system is thinking with their heart and not their head. I suspect Mike Hass will be a good bet to move up on the depth chart from #6 receiver next year. Hass needs to impress Darryl Drake and Ron Turner especially. If he does, he'll play. Sometimes all it takes is an injury to the guy ahead of you on the depth chart, in this case that's Mark Bradley or Bernard Berrian.


Hass could easily become the next  Wes Welker, waived by San Diego and traded by Miami before becoming a star in his 4th year.

Wes Welker didn't exactly come out of nowhere this year. He had 66 catches the year before and was a great punt returner for Miami the past two seasons.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

this is the best part of debating; when your side has the stronger argument in every aspect.

James, let's just say for the moment that your position is correct, and that

avoiding bump and run is a separate skill measured at the combine in position specific agility and strength drills: the three cone drill, the 20 yard shuttle and the 60 yard shuttle. You can have the greatest hands in the world, you can run the most precise routes, but if you can't get by the corner who is two feet away from you, staring you down and looking to punch you in the mouth when the ball is snapped, you can't achieve much in the NFL.

well then, how do you justify that position when Mike Hass, Kevin Kasper, and numerous other white receivers registered ELITE scores in the 20-yard shuttle, 3-cone drill, and 60-yard shuttle?

if your analysis is correct, then there is even more evidence that white skill-position athletes are unfairly shunned by the NFL than by strictly using the 40-yard dash.

 

[Matt_Bowen_Fan]

The drills at the combine are not perfect but they have proven useful gauges of potential NFL success. If a team is going to spend 10 million on a wide out, they want to try and make an informed decision. There are too many stories of lousy combine numbers and great NFL success to mention. But there are even more stories of bad combine performances and failure to make a squad.


Mike Hass made a roster as a 6th round draft choice. He may have needed a year or two of seasoning on the practice squad. I'd give him at least another year in the Bears system which is hampered by poor play and instability at the quarterback position. Anyone expecting a rookie or second year wide receiver to immediately start over seasoned receivers in that team's system is thinking with their heart and not their head. I suspect Mike Hass will be a good bet to move up on the depth chart from #6 receiver next year. Hass needs to impress Darryl Drake and Ron Turner especially. If he does, he'll play. Sometimes all it takes is an injury to the guy ahead of you on the depth chart, in this case that's Mark Bradley or Bernard Berrian.


Hass could easily become the next Wes Welker, waived by San Diego and traded by Miami before becoming a star in his 4th year.

OTOH, there are loads of workout warriors who drill well and can't play, or even more damning, poor combine numbers and they're still drafted high(Mike Williams, I'm looking at you). You'll say that's just Detroit's poor scouting, but he's not the only high draft pick bust who had poor measurables.

I do have one question: do any PAC-10 wideouts do well in the NFL in the last decade? Ocho stupido and TJ Whosyermama aside, I'm having trouble with non-busts, altho I don't follow college ball very closely.

 

[James]

The drills at the combine are not perfect but they have proven useful gauges of potential NFL success. If a team is going to spend 10 million on a wide out, they want to try and make an informed decision. There are too many stories of lousy combine numbers and great NFL success to mention. But there are even more stories of bad combine performances and failure to make a squad.



Mike Hass made a roster as a 6th round draft choice. He may have needed a year or two of seasoning on the practice squad. I'd give him at least another year in the Bears system which is hampered by poor play and instability at the quarterback position. Anyone expecting a rookie or second year wide receiver to immediately start over seasoned receivers in that team's system is thinking with their heart and not their head. I suspect Mike Hass will be a good bet to move up on the depth chart from #6 receiver next year. Hass needs to impress Darryl Drake and Ron Turner especially. If he does, he'll play. Sometimes all it takes is an injury to the guy ahead of you on the depth chart, in this case that's Mark Bradley or Bernard Berrian.



Hass could easily become the next Wes Welker, waived by San Diego and traded by Miami before becoming a star in his 4th year.

OTOH, there are loads of workout warriors who drill well and can't play, or even more damning, poor combine numbers and they're still drafted high(Mike Williams, I'm looking at you). You'll say that's just Detroit's poor scouting, but he's not the only high draft pick bust who had poor measurables.

I do have one question: do any PAC-10 wideouts do well in the NFL in the last decade? Ocho stupido and TJ Whosyermama aside, I'm having trouble with non-busts, altho I don't follow college ball very closely.

Are you saying that because Mike Hass played in the Pac-10 that he won't make it big in the NFL? That's a little harsh, blaming the conference.


Putting the person "aside" who tied Wes Welker for the most catches in the league is kind of strange,but USC rookie wideout Steve Smith is going to the Super Bowl as the Giants third receiver.


But basically, you're right. Some widouts take longer to developand some are always duds despite great collegiate statistics. Which Haas will be remains to be seen. I don't think the conference or the college that a receiver played for has anything to do with success at the pro-level.

 

[Don Wassall]

Some widouts take longer to developand some are always duds despite great collegiate statistics. Which Haas will be remains to be seen.

Why does it still "remain to be seen"? Because a black with the same collegiate statistics would have been a first round draft pick and had two full years of opportunities instead of just barely hanging on in the fringes of the NFL with zero opportunities. As has been mentioned here numerous times, all the Belitnikoff winnersroutinely getdrafted in the first and second rounds -- with one exception, including ones like Josh Reed who is smaller and slower than Hass.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I'd say if Hass were black he would have been favorably compared to Issac Bruce and Jerry Rice and my guess is would have been drafted in the mid to late second round.
Teams really value speed nowadays. We can see this with how Dewayne Jarrett dropped last year to the mid second round after running a 4.65,4.67 40 yard despite being 6'5 and putting up great statistics for USC.

If Hass were black, although he isn't a speed merchant, teams would have looked at his lightning quicks off the line, his brilliant route running and his superb ability to adjust to and catch the football (ie. Jerry Rice, Issac Bruce, Anquan Bolden, Wes Welker). If Hass were black he would be the Saints number two WR right now. Hass should without a doubt take the aging Muhammad's place as the number 2 WR on the Bears next year. Hass is a lot like Issac Bruce as a player, but I doubt Lovie Smith will give him a chance, "he looks like the team manager."Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

James conveniently skipped over my points which refuted much of his contention.

i guess he thinks that if he pretends the reality isn't real, then facts don't matter.