CHAMPIONSHIPS

[White Shogun]

Ironic that Favre's last pass of the game, and maybe of his career, was an interception, considering that he holds the NFL record for most interceptions.

Maybe Strahan wasn't playing all out because he felt he owed Favre one last favor for his help in giving Strahan the sack record?

I wonder if Bill Schroeder was at the game. Is he a Packers fan?

 

[Tired old White]

Thrashen,

The penalties cut both ways. The Giants had a touch down called back for holding on the opposite side of the line from the play. I just hope this gets ELi forgiveness for not being perfect and having the audacity to be born with white skin and athletic ability.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I like the contributions of Evans and Welker. Two really good players.

As a Jet fan, I cringed when I saw that the Patriots picked up Welker in the off season. I couldn't believe Miami got rid of him. I knew he was the missing piece Belichek needed.

Tom Iron...

Tom, I didn't cringe, I fully expected them to get rid of him. From what I read here at Caste last year, that Miami coach had absolutely no interest in playing white players at all. That Miami coach just couldn't or wouldn't believe a white player can work on a football field. But who is laughing now!

 

[Guest]

You could not believe the blackest team in NFL history wanted to get rid of Welker? They wanted to cut him and give his spot to Marcus Vick!

At least he was allowed to play. The drunk white fans don't believe when I tell them there are white players better than Welker who are not even allowed to get on the field.

 

[Don Wassall]

The Giants were rewarded by not following "conventional wisdom" and playing all-out against the Patriots in the regular season finale to try and deny New England an undefeated regular season. It kept their edge and seems to have boosted their confidence as well.


Interesting fun fact -- the Patriots are only 2-8 against the spread over the last 10 games. The early blowouts turned into a lot of close games later on. The Super Bowlcould be a verytight game.

 

[Don Wassall]

As for the Patriots-Chargers game, could Tomlinson be any more of a wimp? Look at the difference between him and Phillip Rivers; Rivers had a more serious knee injury and gutted it out for the whole game, while LT took himself out of the game and never even tried to return, despite Norv Turner's admission that he "could have" played, but didn't give them the best chance to win. There will be no criticism of LT, while Rivers will probably be blasted for attempting to play when he clearly wasn't anywhere near 100%.

Turns out Rivers even had surgery in an effort to play yesterday: [url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/specials/ playoffs/2007/01/21/rivers.surgery.ap/index.html [/url]


I've been trying to find articles lambasting Tomlinson, but other than delicately questioning his toughness I haven't found any. LT is always hyped as one of the league's "good guys" -- "classy" seems to be the adjective universally used to describe him by the Caste media -- so it's unlikely he'll take any heat.

 

[backrow]

well, there is a difference between a QB and a RB playing on a bad knee. wha was Tomlinson's injury?

i have lots of new-found respect for Rivers, what a leader.

 

[Johnnyrebb]

I have mixed feelings about who I want to win the superbowl. Im a packers fan and pretty upset about that loss. I dislike the Giants black defense. But ive become an Eli fan recently and the way the media doesnt bother him. I

 

[backrow]

oh come on! why would you ever pull for Giants???
we have tons of good white QBs and on top of that Eli's not going to get all that much credt, this will go to their runningbacks, Buress, coal black D... i want Patriots to win Superbowl by 30 points, with Wes and Heath scoring in the process.

 

[Bart]

Al Harris was burned repeatedly last night.He is not known for humility,so it was nice to see him totally owned play after play after play. He has received some mild criticism. Imagine if his name was Archuletta or Sehorn or Weddle. It wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Thrashen]

"At least he was allowed to play. The drunk white fans don't believe when I tell them there are white players better than Welker who are not even allowed to get on the field."

Nevada, this is a great point.

Whenever I see black skill players, I wonder what white WR was far better and/or more productive that he was in high school and college. Whenever I ACTUALLY see a white skill player in the NFL, I wonder how many other white WRs were far better, but werent lucky enough to be "allowed" to play in the pros.

I think we could all agree that over the past 5-10 years, there have been about 150 white WRs with alot more skills than Welker, Curtis, and Walter. Not to take any credit from these amazing players, but I think we all know for sure that guys like Danny Farmer, Jerehme Urban, Mike Hass, Derek Abney, Chase Lyman, Chas Gessner, Logan Payne, David Ball, and Matt Jones (you all know the endless list of screw-jobs) are simply better football players.

I'm never sure why coaches "pick" certain white skill players over others, but the fact these "chosen" guys are actually allowed to play in the NFL at least passifies us here at CF

...Edited by: Thrashen

 

[Johnnyrebb]

oh come on! why would you ever pull for Giants???
we have tons of good white QBs and on top of that Eli's not going to get all that much credt, this will go to their runningbacks, Buress, coal black D... i want Patriots to win Superbowl by 30 points, with Wes and Heath scoring in the process


Yeah Im hoping to see the Patriots offense tear up the giants. I Just hope Eli has a decent game

 

[James]

The most difficult part of the equation for wide receivers and what separates great collegiate receivers from pro-receivers is quickness in getting off the line of scrimmage under bump and run. There are many black and white receivers who just never make the transition to the pros because they are able to be jammed off their routes at the line in bump and run coverage.


If cornerbacks can jam you and redirect you, the quarterack will not be able to get you the ball. You've got three seconds max to get to where you are supposed to be on the field. Bump and run is the great leveler no matter what race you are.


Great receivers with great hands and who runprecise routes butwho can't consistently defeat bump and run get cut.

 

[Riggins44]

"The most difficult part of the equation for wide receivers and what separates great collegiate receivers from pro-receivers is quickness in getting off the line of scrimmage under bump and run. There are many black and white receivers who just never make the transition to the pros because they are able to be jammed off their routes at the line in bump and run coverage.

If cornerbacks can jam you and redirect you, the quarterack will not be able to get you the ball. You've got three seconds max to get to where you are supposed to be on the field. Bump and run is the great leveler no matter what race you are.

Great receivers with great hands and who run precise routes but who can't consistently defeat bump and run get cut."

Um, yeah. So I guess Mike Hass was able to beat the bump and run when he played in the Pac 10, but all of a sudden he couldn't do it at the NFL level, while a whole bunch of black receivers that Hass did better than in college could? Same with Danny Farmer, John Standeford, David Ball, etc? I guess Mike Furrey was able to beat the bump and run last year, but this yeat he couldn't?

 

[Guest]

I don't buy the bump hypothesis.

I wrote a few versions of a reply to the bump hypothesis but got mad and decided to delete the whole thing. I know too much about sports to think anything other than simple discrimination is happening in the NFL.Edited by: nevada

 

[Maple Leaf]

The most difficult part of the equation for wide receivers and what separates great collegiate receivers from pro-receivers is quickness in getting off the line of scrimmage under bump and run. There are many black and white receivers who just never make the transition to the pros because they are able to be jammed off their routes at the line in bump and run coverage.


If cornerbacks can jam you and redirect you, the quarterack will not be able to get you the ball. You've got three seconds max to get to where you are supposed to be on the field. Bump and run is the great leveler no matter what race you are.


 Great receivers with great hands and who run precise routes but who can't consistently defeat bump and run get cut.

James, is this the stuff you here from commentators like Madden and the like? If this was the case then why test 40's at the combine? Why not test 20's? A 20 is a better test of off the line speed.

 

[Kaptain]

Anybody else notice all the drops by the Giant wide recievers? Smith and Toomer in particular.

 

[forty-four]

Was it just me or did anyone else noticed that the Packers actually started 11 whites in the game? The scrolling lineups on the bottom of the tv screen didn't refelect it, but I think thay had 2 fullbacks in on the first play: 8 whites on offense + 3 whites on defense = a shocking moment for the caste system!


I hate that Green Bay won't be in the big game.Edited by: forty-four

 

[James]

The most difficult part of the equation for wide receivers and what separates great collegiate receivers from pro-receivers is quickness in getting off the line of scrimmage under bump and run. There are many black and white receivers who just never make the transition to the pros because they are able to be jammed off their routes at the line in bump and run coverage.



If cornerbacks can jam you and redirect you, the quarterack will not be able to get you the ball. You've got three seconds max to get to where you are supposed to be on the field. Bump and run is the great leveler no matter what race you are.



Great receivers with great hands and who runprecise routes butwho can't consistently defeat bump and run get cut.

James, is this the stuff you here from commentators like Madden and the like? If this was the case then why test 40's at the combine? Why not test 20's? A 20 is a better test of off the line speed.

No, I have no idea what John Madden has to say about which wide receivers are in the league.


Downfield speed is one wide receiver skill, avoiding bump and run is a separate skill measuredat the combine in position specific agility and strength drills: the three cone drill, the 20 yard shuttle and the 60 yard shuttle. You can have the greatest hands in the world, you can run the most precise routes, but if you can't get by the corner who is two feet away from you, staring you down and looking to punch you in the mouth when the ball is snapped, you can't achieve muchin the NFL. What happens in that first five yards when DBs can hit the receiver often determines the success or failure of the play.


The media tend to focus on 40 yard dash times but even in the 40, players are also timed at 10 yards and 20 yards. Different teams are looking for different types of wide receivers in order to have a balanced receiving corps.

 

[Don Wassall]

Was it just me or did anyone else noticed that the Packers actually started 11 whites in the game? The scrolling lineups on the bottom of the tv screen didn't refelect it, but I think thay had 2 fullbacks in on the first play: 8 whites on offense + 3 whites on defense = a shocking moment for the caste system!


I hate that Green Bay won't be in the big game.

I still am not sold on Mike McCarthy. He cut Marc Boerigter early in training camp last year, and the Packers have very little white depth after the starters. The two fullbacks did not have a single carry between them all season. John Kuhn had two receptions, Korey Hall eight. By contrast the lumbering William Henderson had 320 receptions during his career as the Packers fullback.


The Packers do have more white starters than anyone else, but with no white backup TEs or WRs, they impress me less than some teams with fewer white starters. I don't think a white player besides Favre has touched the ball for Green Bay other than on a token basis since Bill Schroeder was run out of town.

 

[forty-four]

Don, I agree with you about McCarthy & Green Bay. I guessI was looking at the Pack from the casual fan's perspective, particulary when they show the "starters" on TV. They don't know the details like you do, yet they "see" the racial make up (at least to some degree) when the faces of players are put up on the screen. I know I'll cringe when they roll through NY's defense during the Superbowl. It is mostly symbolic, but more white faces prevents people from "writing off" football as a "black sport."


Edited by: forty-four

 

[sport historian]

Anybody else notice all the drops by the Giant wide recievers? Smith and Toomer in particular.

Yes, I noticed it. Was it Toomer that had the drop early in the game with no one within yards of him? Manning's pass hit him right in the numbers. You can't say that Eli Manning has one of the best groups of receivers in the NFL.

 

[Don Wassall]

Don, I agree with you about McCarthy & Green Bay. I guessI was looking at the Pack from the casual fan's perspective, particulary when they show the "starters" on TV. They don't know the details like you do, yet they "see" the racial make up (at least to some degree) when the faces of players are put up on the screen. I know I'll cringe when they roll through NY's defense during the Superbowl. It is mostly symbolic, but more white faces prevents people from "writing off" football as a "black sport."

Good points. Will be interesting to see which way McCarthy goes in the next few seasons, as he's certainly earned quite a bit of job security this year.

 

[Maple Leaf]

James: I think you missed the point.

If, "Quickness off the line" is your reason why many receivers get cut, then any test over 10 yards is meaningless.
You mentioned the cone and 60 yard drill. Neither would measure a receivers ability to handle contact off the line.
It is not as if collegiate ball is touch-football or semi-contact: collegiate players are tackled and roughed-up as much as they are in the pros.
All of these are meaningless measures of abstraction to justify fabricated biases. There is no way -no logical explanation- why a star collegiate player cannot at least find a job as number 4 or 5 receiver in the NFL. Mike Hass is the best example of this anywhere on this site today. In Hass' case, the player went from being the best in all of college to not even being allowed to start. If you believe all of that test stuff then you have been drinking their koolaid.

 

[James]

James: I think you missed the point.

If, "Quickness off the line" is your reason why many receivers get cut, then any test over 10 yards is meaningless.
You mentioned the cone and 60 yard drill. Neither would measure a receivers ability to handle contact off the line.
It is not as if collegiate ball is touch-football or semi-contact: collegiate players are tackled and roughed-up as much as they are in the pros.
All of these are meaningless measures of abstraction to justify fabricated biases. There is no way -no logical explanation- why a star collegiate player cannot at least find a job as number 4 or 5 receiver in the NFL. Mike Hass is the best example of this anywhere on this site today. In Hass' case, the player went from being the best in all of college to not even being allowed to start. If you believe all of that test stuff then you have been drinking their koolaid.

The drills at the combine are not perfect but they have proven useful gauges of potential NFL success. If a team is going to spend 10 million on a wide out, they want to try and make an informed decision. There are too many stories of lousy combine numbers and great NFL success to mention. But there are even more stories of bad combine performances and failure to make a squad.


Mike Hass made a roster as a 6th round draft choice. He may have needed a year or two of seasoning on the practice squad. I'd give him at least another year in the Bearssystem which is hampered by poor play and instability at the quarterback position. Anyone expecting a rookie or second yearwide receiver to immediately start over seasoned receivers in that team's system is thinking with their heart and not their head. I suspect Mike Hass will be a goodbet to move up on the depth chart from #6 receiver next year. Hass needs to impress Darryl Drake and Ron Turner especially. If he does, he'll play. Sometimes all it takes is an injury to the guy ahead of you on the depth chart, in this case that's Mark Bradley or Bernard Berrian.


Hass could easily become the next Wes Welker,waived by San Diego and traded by Miami before becoming a star in his 4th year.