Cam Newton Vs. Tim Tebow

[Colonel_Reb]

gucka111, this wasn't the best way to introduce yourself to the board. I mean, you've held back for "2 years" only to comment on this, and in that way?

 

[pistol pete]

I think that Tebow can be a very good NFL quarterback. He has the size of Big Ben and he has won in college. He is also a good character guy. I think he can be on the Mannings- Brady - Big Ben - Brees - Rodgers level.

Mike Vick is a great athlete who can run and who can make some great passes. But he is not consistent enough. He is on the tier below those other guys.

Cam Newton is not a first tier guy in terms of discipline and skill nor is he on Vick's level of athleticism. Cam Newton will most likely be an average QB at best.

 

[Deadlift]

I would say that Newton isn't "as marketable" as the PTB would hope.. On SportsNation, they asked if Carolina should take Newton #1 overall, and a huge percentage said NO! It was during one of their "polling segments" that they usually have on their show.

I get the sense that he isn't very popular in middle America..

 

[Mighty Joe]

With Newton their seems to be some kind off fall off between the media and the teams that will have to invest millions in him.The media which is very powerful have given him the ESPN treatment,a Black heisman winning QB after only one season of playing turned into a larger than life superstar a result of their anual gloryfying of 'ebony skinned athletic titans'a process[social agenda] that produces bust after bust but this time around the teams and the scouts that work for them know he's not got the goods.Despite this,some team will be falsed to take him in the first rnd probably no1 overall because if he falls their will be an outcry,in this upside down world it would be construed as nothing less than racism if he's not picked no1.Its quite funny,some team will have to give him millions knowing deep down that he's not an elite talent,will never be a fanchise GB with all kinds of issues to boot.

Epic busts like Russell and to a lesser extent Young loom large,many people now understand that if you want a QB thats going to lead his team,play well consistaantly game after game,keep his team competitive year after year a true franchise QB then its guys like Manning,Brady,Rodgers and Ryan thats needed.Edited by: Mighty Joe

 

[JReb1]

Todd McGay has Newton going #1 and last year he didn't think Tebow should even be drafted,especially as a QB. I wonder why he has such a difference of opinion in similar styled and skilled (though Tebow has much better intangibles and talent IMO) athletic QBs....

 

[Guest]

This is all Stalin's standing ovation politics. The black sportswriters ginned up some hysteria (some deserved) and then made it a litmus test of the other sportswriters to keep clapping or be called racist. Tebow is an ok QB with real upside, Newton is an ok QB with a future as another black joke. Newton can win a SB, but it would require the most dominant defense in the NFL, but that won't happen because his cap hit will kill the finances of any team.

 

[celticdb15]

Wherever Newton goes, he will be overdrafted and that team will be making a huge mistake.

 

[gucka111]

I finally decided to comment because I felt as a whole the board was making Tebow out to be a much better prospect than he actually is. I agree that Tebow is a much greater human being, and I also agree that Tebow will eventually be a more productive QB than Newton. But that has more to do with his tremendous work ethic. I'm still not convinced Tebow can be a superstar of the level of a Brady or a Manning. But the likelihood of him being a productive QB is much greater than Newton. I also don't understand the media hype of the kid. He's a great college athlete, but his talents have been way overplayed. I guess thats the media train for you.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

gucka, I see some of the same mechanical problems with Newton that Tebow possesses. I see a lot of similarities. Newton is a little faster and better at scrambling to the outside and Tebow is a little more elusive and better at scatting around and up the middle. I saw both throw some lame duck short and mid range throws at receivers feet due to mechanical issues, but both also often put the ball on the money on tougher throws as well (inconsistency).

The difference is that much of the media is hyping Newton to be the #1 overall pick and many of the same analysts were labeling Tebow a third/fourth round pick at QB- or even a FB. I would project Tebow as a mid to late 1st round pick (just as he was picked) and Newton as an early to mid 2nd round pick personally.

Tebow has a better work ethic and has better character. I don't see Newton as an EVIL kid (I haven't heard about any violent actions toward other people from him), but he does have some troubles and character flaws.

I also find it ridiculous/ disgusting that Yahooligan/ White Rivals has been framing the Pro Football Weekly guy (Naworki?) as having a vendetta against Newton and that Warren Moon is playing the race card.

As far as it being your first post, welcome to the board, but I think you should try a few more posts standing up for white athletes before you make a post sort of picking a black guy as a better prospect than a white one. Just trying to help you out.

 

[Thrashen]

I finally decided to comment because I felt as a whole the board was making Tebow out to be a much better prospect than he actually is.

A pro-white sports website supporting one of the most prolific white athletes in NCAA history"¦yeah, imagine that. To be clear; you're perturbed because the "board as a whole"Â￾ has decided to unanimously support a Heisman Trophy winner, a two-time BCS Champion, and a two-time First Team All American? You're correct, how silly of us "simpletons"Â￾ to defend an athlete with such an "insignificant"Â￾ football resume. Besides, didn't you hear the multitude of "Tim Tebow derisions"Â￾ discharged by Todd McShay, Mel Kiper, and Mike Mayock? Naturally, those "experts"Â￾ were overwhelming enamored with Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young.

Also, Tebow was drafted one year ago"¦so how perhaps you meant to write "better prospect than he actually was."Â￾ He was already a 1st round draft pick, a subject which obviously displeased you.

I agree that Tebow is a much greater human being, and I also agree that Tebow will eventually be a more productive QB than Newton.

Ok...so by your own admission you "agree"Â￾ that Tebow will eventually "be more productive than Newton."Â￾ Then why is Newton, in your sagely opinion, a better NFL prospect? This statement makes little sense.

But that has more to do with his tremendous work ethic. I'm still not convinced Tebow can be a superstar of the level of a Brady or a Manning.

Thank God white athletes such as Tim Tebow have such a "tremendous work ethic,"Â￾ otherwise they'd never be naturally athletic enough to adequately compete with black athletes. That is what meant to say"¦isn't it?

But the likelihood of him being a productive QB is much greater than Newton. I also don't understand the media hype of the kid. He's a great college athlete, but his talents have been way overplayed. I guess thats the media train for you.

"Kid?"Â￾ Unlike you, Tim Tebow is a man, and should be referred to as such. The media loathes Tim Tebow, in case your feeble mind wasn't able to recognize the candid nature of their contempt. The "media train"Â￾ wanted him to change positions (like all other athletic white quarterbacks), remember?

You really need to think clearly before you produce anymore absent-minded, furtively anti-white posts.Edited by: Thrashen

 

[Thrashen]

I finally decided to comment because I felt as a whole the board was making Tebow out to be a much better prospect than he actually is.

A pro-white sports website supporting one of the most prolific white athletes in NCAA history"¦yeah, imagine that. To be clear; you're perturbed because the "board as a whole"Â￾ has decided to unanimously support a Heisman Trophy winner, a two-time BCS Champion, and a two-time First Team All American? You're correct, how silly of us "simpletons"Â￾ to defend an athlete with such an "insignificant"Â￾ football resume. Besides, didn't you hear the multitude of "Tim Tebow derisions"Â￾ discharged by Todd McShay, Mel Kiper, and Mike Mayock? Naturally, those "experts"Â￾ were overwhelmingly enamored with Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young.

Also, Tebow was drafted one year ago"¦so how perhaps you meant to write "better prospect than he actually was."Â￾ He was already a 1st round draft pick, a subject which obviously displeased you.

I agree that Tebow is a much greater human being, and I also agree that Tebow will eventually be a more productive QB than Newton.

Ok...so by your own admission you "agree"Â￾ that Tebow will eventually "be more productive than Newton."Â￾ Then why is Newton, in your sagely opinion, a better NFL prospect? This statement makes little sense.

But that has more to do with his tremendous work ethic. I'm still not convinced Tebow can be a superstar of the level of a Brady or a Manning.

Thank God white athletes such as Tim Tebow have such a "tremendous work ethic,"Â￾ otherwise they'd never be naturally athletic enough to adequately compete with black athletes. That is what you meant to say"¦isn't it?

But the likelihood of him being a productive QB is much greater than Newton. I also don't understand the media hype of the kid. He's a great college athlete, but his talents have been way overplayed. I guess thats the media train for you.

"Kid?"Â￾ Unlike you, Tim Tebow is a man, and should be referred to as such. The media loathes Tim Tebow, in case your feeble mind wasn't able to recognize the candid nature of their contempt. The "media train"Â￾ wanted him to change positions (like all other athletic white quarterbacks), remember?

You really need to think clearly before you produce anymore absent-minded, furtively anti-white posts.Edited by: Thrashen

 

[JReb1]

Todd McGay has Newton going #1 and last year he didn't think Tebow should even be drafted,especially as a QB. I wonder why he has such a difference of opinion in similar styled and skilled (though Tebow has much better intangibles and talent IMO) athletic QBs....

<div></div>
<div></div>
<div>By the way, Mel Kosher Jr. has joined Todd McGoy andhe, also,has Scam going #1 overall to Carolina. Let's not forget, this dynamic duo of caste clowns dubbed noodle-armed Kentucky quarterback Andre Woodson a 'franchise quarterback' and had him going #1 overall for several months prior to the draft a few years ago.Andre, the Magic mullato,never played in a NFLregular season game and was cut by Hartford (UFL) last fall

</div>

If Newton goes #1 and gets the kind of guaranteed money that Bradford got last year then he will no doubt be the next Jamarcuss Russell. Newton wont have the desire to improve the way almost all White QB's do regardless of how much they make. Cam will be "making it rain" and getting obese instead of studying game film, working on his flaws, getting in playing shape and learning his playbook...

 

[Phil]

Todd McGoy and Mel Kosher, Jr. - Now those are some funny names.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

But the likelihood of him being a productive QB is much greater than Newton. I also don't understand the media hype of the kid. He's a great college athlete, but his talents have been way overplayed. I guess thats the media train for you.

"Kid?"Â￾ Unlike you, Tim Tebow is a man, and should be referred to as such.

Thrashen, point well taken that the word "kid" or "boy" is often used toward a man (in the case of sports I hear "white kid" or "white boy" from white rival racists/ dwfs out there sometimes) to show disrespect...It's kind of like saying I'm hear to let "YOU PEOPLE know" etc. "You people" is usually a sign of malice toward whatever group you're addressing as well me thinks. If you respected who you were addressing you'd give them a better honorary title or call them by proper names/ proper job title etc.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Tebow might not reach the level of Brady or P.Manning.... but again, very few ever will (either). Tim has the physical tools, work ethic and potential to be a Pro Bowl QB. The question remains...will he be allowed the chance (in Denver)?

 

[snow]

Newton is not more athletic than Tebow. Tebow is a natural inside runner, Meyer rarely called plays to suit his running strengths. He mostly ran zone-reads with 180 pound dive backs (equivalent to the fullback in the triple option). Guys like Demps who were speed demons who excel on the outside. They would be the dive back and Tebow would have to the option to hand it off to them up the middle, or take it outside and run, usually a slot receiver would go backwards and become the pitchman when Tebow made his next read.

The one play that Tebow excelled at was the inverted veer, which is the opposite of the regular zone read. You line your speed back in the slot, have him come on a jet sweep to the outside, the qb reads the DE/ELMOS on whether to give to him or not, if he decides to keep then he runs up the middle, if he gives it, then you have your speed guy going to the outside. Florida ran this a little bit with Tebow, but not even close to the amount of times Auburn ran it with Cam Newton. I have no clue why, it wouldve made more sense and Tebow wouldve gained a ton of more yards. I guess you could say the spread option was still evolving and that concept was just being toyed around with during Tebow's last seasons. The main plays where he ran up the middle were qb power ( usually in goal line or short yardage, which lowers your ypc) and the qb draw. For being such a big guy, Cam Newton doesn't seem to have much power when he runs and isn't as shifty as Tebow.

I credit Cam Newton's stats to having a better coordinator and the game evolving. (besides the inverted zone read Gus had tons of more wrinkles than UF's scheme).

Defenses had already figured out how to shut down/slow down the basic zone read stuff when Tebow played with the scrape exchange. They added new wrinkles this year, this is why you saw video game type stats with Denard Robinson/Newton and even Taylor Martinez. Granted these guys are all good athletes but I can't tell what they would do in a regular system. Noticed how most of these guys stats started declining towards the end of the year...this was when coordinators were figuring out how to slow down the new wrinkles. We were told that the auburn-oregon game was going to have like at least 100 points in it with some ridiculous 67 to 56 score, but it didn't, because they run the same type of offense and knew the keys to stopping it/slowing down. Auburn's coordinator is the best in the country though, and is better at staying on top of opposing defenses than other spread teams.

When Gus (Auburns's coordinator) was at Tulsa, he had a guy named Paul Smith, someone who threw for around 2,000 yards 15 tds 9 interceptions the year before Gus game. Gus comes in and he throws for 5,000 yars 47 tds and 18 interceptions. 9 yards per attempt. He had been wanting to install the zone read aspect of it but never felt he had a qb that was "affletic enough" so he didn't have the qb running as much, he also squeezed 1,000 yard rushers out of nobodies at Tulsa. The next year David Johson who was a bench warmer his entire career threw for 4,000 yards 10.6 yards per attempt, and 40something touchdowns. Neither of these guys got a serious look from the NFL. I think one is in the CFL right now. I would say Cam Newton is a system qb, just like those guys, and just like the guys at Texas Tech, because the passing concepts are the same. He just ran modern day triple option stuff that Navy runs as well. Funny how those guys never get a look when putting up monster stats, eh?

If Jake Locker was at Auburn or Oregon's offese I don't have a doubt that he would put up insane numbers. Instead he was in a pro style offense that didn't have any players that fit. They couldve easily excelled running a gimmick zone read offense, Locker could run and Chris Polk is a good rb. At least he has some experience playing in a pro style offense. I know Tebow would have put up better numbers than Cam. He was a better passer and better inside runner

I love how the media drools all over Newton as if he is so much more athletic than Tebow. His mechanics need improving (throwing and footwork), he is a project and I doubt he will work as hard as Tebow did to fix his game and make the transition. He isn't more athletic, he can run in a straight line about .1 faster, slower 3 cone drill and shuttle, and lower vertical. As far as Tebow's mechanics, he showed a vast improvement in a matter of weeks after his senior season. Meyer always told coaches not to mess with his mechanics, it looks like that was the case because it didn't take long for him to fix it. So far Newton as done horrible at every post season event that is set up to show you can be an NFL qb. He has shown that he is an ATHLETE, but not even close to an NFL qb like Tebow showed when he was coming out. Id say put Newton at TE, but he isn't physical enough and I don't think he would be a good blocker. Hed be a decent receiving tight end. If nobody believes in Tebow at qb after proving he can play there in the NFL, I wouldn't mind seeing him at rb, similar measurables to Blount and probably would have the same production. But of course that would never happen. What we have is a guy from the same type of system as Tebow, character flaws, problems with work ethic, projeted to go 1st overall, while Tebow who was a "reach in the first round" proved he could play qb in the NFL, about to be replaced.

I haven't watched enough Blaine Gabbert to see how he rates, everyone seems to bash him so I will take a look. But right now it looks like Locker is a better prospect than Newton.

I don't see Tebow on a Manning/Brady level, but I see him on a Favre/Elway level. He likes to throw down field and take chances and just makes thing happen. So yeah he has the potential to be great. Different style than Manning or Brady but Favre and Elway were greats as well.

Edited by: snow

 

[gucka111]

</span>I agree alot with the last post. But other than vertical and height, Tebow has much better short-area agility. He's not quite as fast as Newton in a straight line, but I'd put my money on Tebow being much better at breaking long runs. Newton is also not nearly as compact a runner as Tebow. The main thing that scares me about Tebow is his Byron Leftwich-esque delivery.<div> </span>I don't understand attacking my character. I love white athletes, this year has been great. It's been years since two white RB's were tearing it up. I remember watching Hillis playing great after being put at his true position at Denver. McDaniel's treatment of him the next year perplexed me to no ends. Watching Danny Woodhead go undrafted infuriated me also. I don't understand how Maurice Jones-Drew gets drafted in the 2nd and he didn't. To me, they both had the necessary lower body strength to succeed despite being both under 5'8".</div>

 

[snow]

Tebow changed his mechanics, he tightened up his throws, he doesn't drop his arm nearly as low as he used to, sure there are a few throws during games that he reverts to throwing similar to his old style but for the most part its getting better. (and like I said its not even close to as bad as to when he was in college, at Florida that ball would be right around his knee level before releasing it, in the NFL, the lowest I have seen that ball is right above the waist which was only a few times, usually its even higher than that when he messes up). Its all muscle memory, that takes time. I am sure after this offseason it won't even be an issue. It was barely an issue last year. One thing he has going for him is that he is mobile so if he does have a long wind up he can buy himself time, and he is left handed, most of the elite pass rushers come from the other side, some switch sides, but usually aren't effective when going against the right tackle.
Edited by: snow

 

[gucka111]

Good point Snow, in a ideal situation Tebow should get another year on the bench to make sure muscle memory errors are minimized. I think it'd do wonders for when he does acquire the starting position fully in the next few years. Tebow ought to seek guidance from Steve Young, another great left-handed scramber.

 

[dwid]

The best situation is for Tebow to learn on the field. You can't learn on the field experience sitting on the bench.

Newton is now being compared to Tebow. Elway came out and said he believes in Tebow after bashing him for the past month.

 

[JReb1]

Better Long-Term QB Tebow Or Newton?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6884514&categoryid=2459789