Belicheck And Patriots Scandal

[bigunreal]

I'm a little surprised this hasn't been brought up yet. Does anyone even understand this supposed scandal? Frankly, I don't see how you could effectively steal another team's signals, and still transmit that information to your team fast enough for it to make a difference. I haven't paid full attention to this story, but I thought I heard something to the effect that the guy who was filming the signals gave the film to the Patriots at halftime. Then, they supposedly used that info. to predict what the Jets were going to do in the second half. If so, that would definitely help, but was there a difference in the way the Patriots dominated the Jets in the second half, versus the way they dominated them in the first half? But then again, I'm probably the last one to understand something like this, considering that I have long suspected that NFL team playbooks are not exactly the voluminous and intricate things the jock-sniffers in the media insist they are.

Regardless of the particulars surrounding all this, the reaction of the talking heads in the media was 100% predictable. You could sense a bloodlust in their voices, as almost all of them demanded that Belicheck be severely punished, and a comparison was made between this kind of cheating and Barry Bonds taking steroids. Obviously, there was an intentional racial angle to that comparison, which wasn't lost on me, at least. Now there are some who question the legitimacy of the Patriots' three Super Bowl wins. I'm not the biggest Belicheck fan, but this whole thing is being overblown in my opinion, and Roger Goodell was probably pressured to come down hard on Belicheck to prove that the black thugs who rule the league are not the only ones who will have to pay for their transgressions. I'm curious to know what others think about this issue.

 

[Thrashen]

Personally, I could care less about this stupid story.

Besides, the NFL is entirely a fake league to me anyway, in that the best players haven't been playing for the past 20 f*cking years! Maybe that's a little bit bigger issue at the moment. Oh, and not to mention the lack of offensive and defensive talent currently making the NFL an unwatchable bore-fest year in, year out. Seriously, I can't believe the NFL right now is the most popular sport in the history of whatever...have any of you guys actually sat down and watched a FULL game? It's seriously impossible to do, especially on a Sunday afternoon (which is the only reason it has such high ratings).

The only other reason I don't give a hoot about this story is because it's the Pat's. Yeah, yeah, I know, they're only white friendly in "caste / non-taboo positions" like; QB, OL, LB, K, and P. So what? At least it's something, right? Besides, at least for this season, they've decided to start a white WR (Welker) and allow a white RB in Evans to touch the ball (kind of).

I'm happy for the Pats success and I even have come to like some of their black players (weird, I know) over the years (like Troy Brown, Asante Samuel, etc). Any punishment that is dealt will mean nothing because anyone with eyes could see this league has become a joke of a joke. Today's NFL is all about who can "out-flash" who.

It's boring, it's nearly always a defensive struggle, and has the most p*ss poor fundamentals I've ever witnessed in PROFESSIONAL football. I barely watch any of the games; I just hope the white players I follow do well throughout the week!

 

[yanling]

I'm waiting for someone on TV or radio to compare this to Michael Vick drowning wounded, helpless animals.

 

[White Shogun]

Pats' spy flap leaves Eagles wondering..

Things I noticed in this article:

Rene Mahe is described as the team's punt returner. Good thing this incident happened this week or he wouldn't have been available.

Brian Westbrook said worrying about something that's already happened isn't worth his time.

And the writer wonders if sideline video could solve the burning question of whether McNabb really threw up in the huddle during the second half of the Super Bowl.

 

[Poacher]

Tempest in a teacup.Edited by: Poacher

 

[emt1]

meh.........i don't really care anymore.......f*ck the negroe football league!

 

[Bart]

ESPN this afternoon interviewd a couple of ex-players and asked what they thought of the video taping incident. One was Ray Buchanan, the otherguy I can't remember. They both joked about it and said taping and trying to steal signals along with other methods of that nature is common and most teams do it. They said Mangini was a snitch and a rat for bringing attention to the case. I'm sure there is much more to this than we've been told. Why did Mangini make a big deal? Bad blood between him and Belichick?

 

[Don Wassall]

Mangini worked closely with (and under) Belichick when both were on the Jets coaching staff in the late '90s. Belichick gave Mangini only the coldest of handshakes after they met for the first time last year after Mangini became the Jets head coach, which at the time caused the media to speculate that there was bad blood between the two. It's hard to know because Belichick hardly exudes warmth publicly. His personality and demeanor reminds me a lot of another great coach, Chuck Noll.

 

[Bart]

Mangini worked closely with (and under) Belichick when both were on the Jets coaching staff in the late '90s. Belichick gave Mangini only the coldest of handshakes after they met for the first time last year after Mangini became the Jets head coach, which at the time caused the media to speculate that there was bad blood between the two.

Bad blood is an understatement if this report at Yahhoo is true.


[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlyAhW1PUYx8gVrcYojt4m BDubYF?slug=ms-thegameface091407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns [/url]

 

[Thrashen]

Mangini can lose every game for all I care, and I'm sure he'll come close with a nearly all-black squad. I hate the Jets almost as much as Blacksonville and Arizona.

 

[Bart]

I don't know if any one here cares either way, but I found this on a message board. Apparently the tape in question was shown during the Fox pre-game telecast. I didn't see it. Is the following analysis valid or not?

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<DIV =user- style="PADDING-TOP: 5px">I know I have been bashing this 'spy-gate' issue, but I just watched the copy of the actual Matt Estrella tape during the Jets game, and have a different take on this. A clip of the tape was shown during the Fox pre-game today.

Pats fans, read this, I'll be defending you here to a degree, but it is fair.

The tape shows Estrella was standing on the Pats sideline, not the Jets sideline. Estrella would flash the scoreboard showing time, game time, down and yards to go, and then flash back to the defensive coach hand signaling in to the Jet defense.

Now, for this to have any relevance, it would have to show the exact Defensive player formation that matched the hand signal and situation, which Estrellas tape did not. He only filmend the signal call, and the time and situation under which is was called. He couldnt tape the field formation from a groud level view.

So unless this tape that Estrella was making is matched and synched with the field view, you can't do anything with this but guess what hand signals be called in similar situations. You couldnt tell what the D formation looked like based up the hand calls. Unless you had previous info on the actual matching and filed formation on the hand signal.

So to synch it Estrellas tape with a field view, even if you do film this for the whole first quarter, or even the first half, you still have the mechanical work to synch it, side by side, to the view of the actual formation, or take notes as to what play was run. If you were to synch it, you would need at least an hour to do it, taking up most of the third quarter (i'm not saying or hypothesising that this was done, just speaking in logistical terms if this is the accused method of cheating, this si what would need to have happened). So even if they taped the whole first half, they would need the entire third quarter to synch it, with certain amount of equipment and people behind teh synching it to deliver the results in time for the end of the game. And if they had done this, and gone this far, they could only guard themselves against simialr hand calls from the first half being used in the fourth quarter of a game.

I dont think it went down that way.

My interpretation after seeing the evidence is the Pats used this video method for obtaining a breakdown of situational calling, and hand signals (with closer detail and resolution) that matched the formations for game film scouting analysis. Very difficult to imagine them doing this for breaking down the first quarter. And it probably would be two risky. That synching is off by any degree, the whole plan fails, and you're done. So it would need to be scrutinized to be sure its synched up right.

Meaning, I think they used the info later, not during the game. Would be very difficult to use this info obtained in this method during the game, especially on a road game, equipment, synching and all.

So, what I am saying, as a loyal Jet fan, but fair sportsman, is I dont think Belicheck cheated. Like he said, he broke the rule in how he obtained detailed game film, for analysis. But didnt use it during that game. Thats what the evidence tells me.

If they seemed smarter than anyone else, its probably because they have a better library of this synched film mathcing game situations than anyone else.

So BB wasn't wise, in going against a written and later reminded rule about filming from the field instead of a boxed enclosure.

But I no longer think this is a cheating issue, and you guys should spread the word.

The Pats didnt cheat, nor could they have used this method to cheat. In this game, or any game. There, I said it.

I'll probably get blasted about this, but the truth is in the facts, and the devil is in the details.</TD></TR></T></TABLE>

 

[lovethegame]

much to do about nothing. but, the ironic thing is that the Pats are good enough to win most of their games without so much as looking in the direction of the other side of the field. so if they cheated my question is......WHY? you don't need to. Beyond that, the way they demolished the chargers made them look unstoppable. particularly Moss. he looked like a kid that loves the game again! Madden nailed it when he said that Moss is running his routes to the fullest and with discipline and that can only spell trouble for opposing teams. if he stays healthy, he may just have a record breaking season.

 

[Freedom]

Remember Watergate. It was probably some low level guy that did it trying to move up the ladder.

 

[Bart]

Well now, this is getting interesting.


[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-jets-videotaping&am p;am p;prov=ap&amp;type=lgns[/url]



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<DIV ="title">Mangini: Jets taped during playoff game last season, but received permission from Pats</TD></TR>
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<TD ="yspwidearticle">By DENNIS WASZAK Jr., AP Sports Writer
December 12, 2007





HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (AP) -- The spy games between the New York Jets and New England Patriots began last season.


The Jets were caught videotaping at Gillette Stadium last season and the Patriots had that New York employee removed from the area, according to published reports Wednesday. Jets coach Eric Mangini said his team received permission to film behind both end zones during the playoff game in January.


"We taped the game, is what we taped, and we taped end-zone copy of the game, and we tape a double end zone, which is standard operating procedure for us," Mangini said Wednesday. "We request that every single road game, and it's usually granted if physically it's possible. And when people request it from us, we do the same thing: We grant it."


Mangini maintained the Jets did nothing wrong, and had filmed at New England during the regular season without incident. It was nothing like what the Patriots did earlier this season, when a New England employee was caught taping New York's defensive signals and punished by the league.


"We do it every time we go on the road," Mangini repeated. "We ask for permission to do it. It's within the league rules, and when people ask us to do it, we grant it, as well."


When asked why the Patriots stopped the Jets if they had already given them permission, Mangini just shrugged.


(snip)


</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>Edited by: Bart

 

[Don Wassall]

I hope the weather forecast of a winter storm doesn't ruin this game tomorrow as I'd like to see the Patriots beat Mangini andhis coal black Jets 70-0.

 

[White Shogun]

Me, too. I want the Patriots to go undefeated. I have heard some co-workers say they want the Patriots to lose because Tom Brady is arrogant. And he doesn't run to the huddle like Brett Favre.

 

[whiteafflete15]

arrogant??? clearly this man does not know sports. brady is as humble a guy you will see in sports. he refuses to compliment himself on anything and is always giving credit to his teammates for the team's success. when the team loses, he blames himself.

 

[Don Wassall]

I watched the Patriots-Ravens Monday night game in a bar and only one other person there besides me was rooting for the Patriots. Everyone else wasn't rooting for Baltimore so much as they wanted the Patriots to lose. They all especially hated Brady.


I can understand how fans like to see the top dog knocked off -- if it was Jacksonville that was undefeated I would loudly cheer for all of their opponents -- but there is undeniably the white self-loathing factor at work too in the intense dislike of Brady and Belichick.

 

[Bart]

but there is undeniably the white self-loathing factor at work too in the intense dislike of Brady and Belichick.

Most of it started after the Sand Diego game, when the Pats beat the affletic Chargers and gave them some of their own medicine after the game. It is always acceptable for blacks to showboat and trash talk, but whites are not permitted to do the same or even respond when being abused. Brady has been getting flak and has been called classless for trash talking during the Steelers game. He apparently had some words with the DB who guaranteed the victory. From what I've read, before the game started he walked over to the Patriots side of the field and was talking smack to Brady while warming up. So Tom burned him on a couple deep passes and let him have it verbally--- making Brady the villain of course.


A couple sportsclowns started calling Belichick Darth Vader and histeam the evil empire, it escalated from there. Then we had the Dungy is an angel and Belichick the devil stuff. Silver just wrote a column about why the Patriots are so hated. Bla, bla, bla. Can't forget -spygate- which is being proved to be more and more bogus every week. Self loathing fans don't don't like to see fellow whites recognized as being the best in any athletic endeavor. If Vince Youngand Garrard were putting up Brady like numbers they would be deified.

 

[Don Wassall]

Brady has every right to be the cockiest guy in the world, given how his career has gone and his looks. Maybe a little bit of cockiness oozes from him, but he does a very good job under the circumstances of trying to say the right thing in an earnest manner.


One can only imagine how intensely proud and arrogant a black QB would be if he was performing to Brady's level. Blacks are not very good at pretending to be modest, when they pretend at all. A black conducting himself as Brady does would be universally praised for his "class" and "humility," much as LaDainian Tomlinson is, rather than reviled for arrogance.

 

[Thrashen]

All those emasculated losers can say WHATEVER they like about the Patriots / Brady / Welker / Bellichick. It no longer bothers me in the least. I think Brady is tougher than Brett Favre has ever been on the field. Unlike Favre, Brady stands up to black players acting in a "tough" or "cocky" manner, or whatever sort of idiotic showboating antic that has now become trademarks of this overrated league. Brady has more composure than Joe Montana, and that's the truth (I love and respect them both, naturally).

I've been watching Brady since he came in for Drew Bledsoe after taking a serious cheap shot from fat Jets LB Brain Cox (remember him as an analyst for ESPN?).

I REALLY REALLY wish the Pats well for the rest of the season. With Brady and Welker on the same team, how can a CF fan go wrong?

 

[sport historian]

Mangini worked closely with (and under) Belichick when both were on the Jets coaching staff in the late '90s.  Belichick gave Mangini only the coldest of handshakes after they met for the first time last year after Mangini became the Jets head coach, which at the time caused the media to speculate that there was bad blood between the two. It's hard to know because Belichick hardly exudes warmth publicly.  His personality and demeanor reminds me a lot of another great coach, Chuck Noll.

The comparison of Belichik with Chuck Noll is interesting. During the 1970's, I recall a piece by Buffalo writer Larry Felser in a pre-season publication. Felser wrote that Chuck Noll was about the worst interview subject among NFL coaches. The reason was that "Noll didn't consider sportswriters qualified to discuss football with."

 

[Don Wassall]

The Pittsburgh media sarcastically referred to Noll as "The Emperor" because of hisdisdainful attitude toward them. Noll always kept a low profile andturned down requests for commercial endorsements. I see a lot of Noll in Belichick, except that Noll dressed a little better.

 

[sport historian]

I rummaged through my collection of football publications and found Larry Felser's exact quote in the 1975 "The Complete Handbook of Pro Football. Felser wrote:

"Chuck Noll has all the warmth of J. Paul Getty, and unless you want to talk wines or gourmet foods, he gives you the distinct impression that only a half dozen people in the Western Hemisphere are qualified to discuss football with him and you are not one of them. Even so, he's more informative than George Allen."

This came from an article titled "The Rating Game." Felser listed the NFL top 5 in several categories. Such as most political, meanest, flakiest, most over-rated, most intellectual, etc. Sometime I'll start a thread with some of the results.

Felser did not list Noll among the five most intellectual. He wrote, "There is divided opinion on Chuck Noll, the Pittsburgh coach. Some think he's the NFL's renaissance man, some think he's just trying to look down his nose at people."