Are schools obsolete?

[Tom Iron]

Gentlemen,

I bring this subject up because it's my idea public (and all schools up to a point) schools are obsolete. I've been saying as much in letters to the editor over a period of time and I've gotten some impassioned responses from teachers and my wife has been taken to task ove my views (her stock answer is "you've got to speak to him about that"). I feel very sorry for many "teachers" who've been sold a bill of goods about what they're getting into. It hasn't been about the chidren for many years now. It's about the "education industry" anymore.

Whether I like it or not, people have changed to the point where they no longer resemble people who this educational system (19th-20th century) was set up for. So, why would a system set up for a particular type of person, who no longer exist, be of any relavance to a young person today. Anything set up by men, only has a narrow period of time to flourish before it becomes obsolete in my view and we've gone 40-50 years since the expiration date of the time period.

Lastly, whether we like the guy or not, I think we can all agree Bill Gates is an absolute genius and he's in agreement with me, or, if you like, I'm in agreement with him on this (Bill Gates should be pitied - he has no college sheepskin - sorry, I have to put in jabs sometimes).

Anyway, I'm interested in what you all have to say on this subject.

Tom Iron...

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I agree that education hasn't been about the children for a long time. Yes, you do still find good teachers out there, but most of them don't bring the best out of their students because of fear of getting fired, the pressures of standardized testing, an apathetic administration, uninvolved parents, having to deal with students who came through classes with bad teachers and having students who expect everything to be given to them. This has worked its way up to the colleges as well. I'm certainly in favor of home schooling as opposed to government indoctrination centers (public schools) and many private schools.

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

That's an excellent answer, Col. Reb.

 

[Ladyfiaran]

This is an interesting topic for me, don't hate me, but I work in education, I work with special needs kids. I do have to agree that most schools are useless, unless one wants specialized training, a reasonably smart person could learn what they need from practical work and some books. A lot of my classes in college other than some of the math or science stuff was useless, especially a lot of the sociology and elective stuff. Some of the teachers were okay but most were brain-dead liberals who thought Bush was the antichrist, I'm not too fond of Bush either but that didn't have any place in the classroom. I think it should be up to the parents on how they want to educate their kids, whether they want to send them to school or teach them at home, the government ought to get out of the education business.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

A lot of my classes in college other than some of the math or science stuff was useless, especially a lot of the sociology and elective stuff. Some of the teachers were okay but most were brain-dead liberals who thought Bush was the antichrist, I'm not too fond of Bush either but that didn't have any place in the classroom.

That's part of the reason I'm in sociology. To try to provide some balance and hopefully steer students away from cultural Marxism and get them to think.

 

[DWFan]

Wow, Colonel Reb you are probably the last person on Earth I'd expect to find studying sociology. That is awesome! I think if we want to save our country/planet it is a great idea to infiltrate these "liberal" basins.

 

[Ladyfiaran]

A lot of my classes in college other than some of the math or science stuff was useless, especially a lot of the sociology and elective stuff. Some of the teachers were okay but most were brain-dead liberals who thought Bush was the antichrist, I'm not too fond of Bush either but that didn't have any place in the classroom.

That's part of the reason I'm in sociology. To try to provide some balance and hopefully steer students away from cultural Marxism and get them to think.

To quote Mr. Burns, I have found that rarest of creatures, a conservative sociologist

How do you do it, dude?

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Wow, Colonel Reb you are probably the last person on Earth I'd expect to find studying sociology. That is awesome! I think if we want to save our country/planet it is a great idea to infiltrate these "liberal" basins.

DWFan, I've surprised a lot of people over the years, shattering paradigms and creating many a puzzled look along the way.

I actually teach sociology at a college.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

A lot of my classes in college other than some of the math or science stuff was useless, especially a lot of the sociology and elective stuff. Some of the teachers were okay but most were brain-dead liberals who thought Bush was the antichrist, I'm not too fond of Bush either but that didn't have any place in the classroom.

That's part of the reason I'm in sociology. To try to provide some balance and hopefully steer students away from cultural Marxism and get them to think.

To quote Mr. Burns, I have found that rarest of creatures, a conservative sociologist

How do you do it, dude?

I do it one day at a time and with a lot of prayer. It isn't easy, but I don't believe I was created to do easy things. I do get encouraging responses from students, so I know it isn't too late for people to wake up.

 

[Charlie]

Education is unexpectedly dangerous. The recent financial meltdown was largely due to mathematical modeling which 'proved' a financial meltdown couldn't happen. The modelers were highly educated South and East Asians with no trading experience. The risk of NAMs not paying their sand-state mortgages was calculated away.

The earlier LTCM crisis was predicated on the infallibility of the Black-Scholes model of options pricing. The 'inventors' of the Black-Scholes model were awarded the Nobel Prize for economics.

Contrast these examples of educated genius with the traditional method of educating investment bankers and traders. An ambitious man, such as Britain's John Major, left high school and went to work as a runner. Then as a floor trader. Then, after proving reliable and clever, perhaps managing an account or recruiting clients. They knew the back room, the trading floor, how to pitch an IPO, how to take losses, how to take advantage.

Policy was set by men with such backgrounds, with all of their personal capital in the firm. They knew, through bitter direct experience, that everyone lies and anything that can go bad will and at the worst time. They were always willing to 'help' liquidate a firm which forgot such lessons.

E. Stanley O'Neal was the African-American CEO of Merrill Lynch when that firm died and was absorbed into Bank of America. Mr. O'Neal was a Harvard MBA and undoubtedly well educated. But dumb as rocks. 'CDOs? Sounds good to me. Let's buy ourselves $8 billion worth.'

As everything collapsed he played golf daily and updated his blog with detailed descriptions of his rounds. Mr. O'Neal left ML with a mere $160 million in his pocket. Not too shabby for a 'finance man' who never traded a security, managed an account, handled a client, managed a back office, orchestrated an IPO nor turned a profit.

So education is dangerous. It tricks the unsuspecting into thinking idiots are smart. It gives false confidence to suspect theories.

Jefferson thought educated citizens were necessary for democracy. By that he meant free and literate white men of property availing themselves of a free press. Today's voting majority is otherwise.

It's fine if people want to go to school or send their children to school. But only if they pay for it themselves. No property taxes. No bond issues. No student loans. No charter schools. No school breakfasts, lunches or dinners. No spelling bees.

But how would you train doctors and such? They can travel to the third world at their own expense and practice on the natives. Once sufficiently experienced they can return to the U.S. and open a business.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Charlie, there are some good points there and I agree with you. My Dad used to mention "educated idiots" quite often. Education (and its products) help prop up a lot of bad things. It is a shame that we have strayed so far from the ideas of the founders.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

I don't think the concept of school is obsolete, it's just the execution for the most part that's garbage. There are a lot of good, caring, smart-as-a-whip teachers, unfortunately they're hamstrung by yes-men and other people who will always kowtow to the corporate, PC line that non-Whites who aren't Asian only fail because of racism and lack of opportunity.

Also, all this revisionist history where in White men are evil.

I mean, really. Wow.

So, evil White man conquers the American west, makes it safe for a bunch of fat, lazy, homosexual liberals to eat organic food in and badmouth Whitey about how he slaughtered the Indians and kept the Blacks down.

If these pinkos really believed any of the garbage they spew (I'm sure they believe it, however they're too dumb to realize the irony in their beliefs), they'd go back to their ancestral squalor that existed before the White man stood tall and decided there's more to life than hunting mammoths with sharp sticks and painting stick figures inside our caves.

 

[Deus Vult]

At the very least, DC involvement in public schools must end -- from funding to the mandate that state and localities even have public schools. Some states could run public schools systems (not saying they SHOULD, just that some could), and some could altogether choose to not have public schools OR public funding for that is popularly called "education." No vouchers, no truancy laws, no parasitic bureaucracy!

 

[Deus Vult]

... So education is dangerous. It tricks the unsuspecting into thinking idiots are smart. It gives false confidence to suspect theories.

Jefferson thought educated citizens were necessary for democracy. By that he meant free and literate white men of property availing themselves of a free press. Today's voting majority is otherwise...

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but I think it is similarly symptomatic: Charlie describes the reason the popularity of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and the like is a net-negative. Don Wassall as a writer and editor is light years more informed and contemplative than all the Faux News hacks combined, but scores of naturally right leaning, well meaning men watch and listen to CON-servative sources and think they are informed and have gotten "the other side" of important topics. Sometimes the most "informed," educated, engaged people are among civilization's worst enemies.

 

[Kaptain]

Yes, schools are or will be obsolete - and I'm a teacher. It's pretty simple; modern day schools are becoming a multi-cultural cesspool. The only things kids are learning more of these days are bad things in these joints. Sure schools both public and private work fine in nearly all white areas, but how can white kids learn anything in city gangland schools? Don't send your kids to a school that is over 20% non-white. Doing so is child abuse.

The natural result of all of this hopefully will be small private community schools that operate completely on their own (no governement mandates etc) ala home schooling. Getting back to old country schools styles of schools would do us well. We have to start looking out for ourselves, our community, and our race.

 

[The Hock]

From what I can see the school system is fragmenting. In the town I grew up in there was one elementary and grammar school, one junior high, and one high school. Of course 99 percent of the student were white kids. So it worked. Nowadays all kinds of private religious and charter schools have sprung up in California as the wonderful blessings of "diversity" manifest themselves. The local progressive pravda did a feature story a while back on the charter school movement and in it they hinted darkly that maybe some charter schools are an attempt by white parents to avoid having their children schooled with minorities.
You know, with the idea that maybe Johnny might learn more if he isn't distracted by the presence of gang bangers and thugs.

I think they're right.

 

[DWFan]

Kaptain Poop AND Colonel Reb are teachers? I wish I'd gone to one of those schools. My high school was over 90% black and I got an A in learning to give up. B+ in learning to hate almost all rich whites.

 

[Charlie]

Every class in every subject can be taught over the internet. Even hands-on subjects like drawing and welding (no credit if the barn burns down). External degrees are available for high school and college. Maybe attending school with other people is fun, I don't know. But I don't see how attending school with other people improves one's ability to learn. It's not young scholars at the Agora passionately discussing the great ideas.

I'd be more impressed with someone who learned via independent study than someone who required in-person hand-holding.

"...My high school was over 90% black..."

I looked up one of my old high schools on GreatSchools.net and it's now 99% Hispanic. Which means it's gotten Whiter since I left.

One day I'm going to put one of those school sticker things on the back window of a car. You know, the ones that say Stanford or UCLA. Mine will be G.E.D. Of course the car needs to be expensive for the joke to work. Considering my current 'whip' the joke would be on me.

 

[Freethinker]

Great points in your posts Charlie. Very humorous as well.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

The trending of contemporary government schools is heading in the wrong direction. That's about the kindest way I can state it. I'm all for private schools & (strong) home schooling (as available). The NEA has trying to usurp home schooling for ages. Government schools have too much power (like all government entities). Thus is par for the course.

 

[Tom Iron]

DixieDestroyer,

If the public school system were to end, what do you think should be put in its place? Or should nothing replace it? Those is the questions most people ask. They can't fathom the idea of there not being public schools. They think govt. should educate. I'm asking this because of my letter writing about this subject. I'm against public compulsorary education. I'm interested in all ideas.

Tom Iron...

 

[Observer]

If the public school system were to end, what do you think should be put in its place? Or should nothing replace it?

Good questions, Tom; and good points by all.

Tom, I can't remember the exact sources, but here are a few points that may be useful to you, as best as I can recall:

- in 1848(?), as the public education movement was sweeping Europe, a study was conducted in America (New England states, primarily, I think) as to whether public education would be beneficial. Literacy rates were found to be 97-98% prior to public education -- but "they" decided to have public schools anyway. [source: I've seen reference to this several times; the first time I read it was in The New American in the '80's by Rushdoon(?)]. Note that this study was prior to the large immigrations by non-English speakers.

- maybe 15 years ago, there was some study evaluating public education, with the top 10(?) aims of public education. The first three were 1. custodial/daycare; 2. socialization; 3. education/literacy -- in that order. Bill Gates was on the study board and said something like it being "appalling". Not a terribly insightful study as I recall, but it had some big names involved that the man-on-the-street would recognize. I don't remember where "inculturation" (i.e., brainwashing, as is usually the case) fit in that list, but maybe it was included with #2 "socialization".

- brick-and-mortar schools will likely remain in the near future for the purpose of #1 "custodial/daycare", and maybe also for #2. However, as centers of "official" learning, their days may be numbered. WCCO is one of the largest radio stations in the Midwest, and they regularly run advertisements for free K-12 online public schooling. I have no idea as to whether the conventional education establishment is against this, or whether they are trying to get on the bandwagon. I don't know how many student they have enrolled, but it seems to me that there would be a substantial market here.

- another possible valid reason that public education will continue to exist is for the benefit of the masses of immigrant populations, with at least an attempt to teach them English.

I suspect that if all public education were to be abolished tomorrow, many groups would soon re-organize. It might be chaotic for a few months.

I don't think that using public monies for educational purposes is intrinsically perverse, but it is unworkable in a country that officially has no clearly-defined ethos. If church and state must be separated, then also school and state need to be likewise, except perhaps in the sense of basic literacy and technical aspects. Even history becomes unteachable in such an environment. And if it were really only the technical details of basic literacy in which the state has a legitimate interest, then it's hard to justify millions of dollar in infrastructure and salaries when a $1,000 of computer and software will do this better.

 

[C Darwin]

i'm currently teaching 9th grade biology with a state exam at the end of the course. the curriculum mandated by new york state is filled with shaky hypothesis like 'sustainable biodiversity' and 'modern evolutionary theory'. the facts have been washed away in lieu of politically correct concepts.

eventually, with out fail, there are student who ask why. why do he have to learn this? how am i going to use this in my life? can't we learn about something more practical?

as much as i would like to take the class in interesting and practical directions, i can't. my lesson plans MUST match state standards. so basically i'm teaching only for these kids to pass a test.

so to their questions i reply this way...

ladies and gentlemen. the state of new york has launched an attack on your personal liberties. they are mandating that you attend summer school if you are unable to successfully pass their government generated exam. your summer will no longer belong to you if you fail to achieve a 65 on the exam.

(i begin to crechendo)

your summer belongs to you, not the state. in class, we will prepare for our battle in june against the state. they are going to attempt to take your summer away from you and put you into one of their 'camps' so you may concentrate on passing the exam.

(getting louder)

well i say we can't let that happen. do you want your summer for yourself? (the class yells 'yes') do you want to be assigned to a state building for 4 weeks to learn what the government wants you to learn? (the class yells 'no') well me neither!

everybody listen to me right now. i am your general. you are my soldiers. together we are going to fight for our right to be free this summer. not all of us are going to make it out with your freedom. i don't know who it will be or how many, but we all need to work to assure that as many people as possible escape the clutches of the government education department. the state may take your summer, but never let them take your spirit to be free.

 

[Michael]

Whites schools generally worked until they forced nonwhites into them, so the way to repair the schools is to remove the nonwhites. Sure, a few minor problems would remain but a White nationalist government wise enough and strong enough to remove the nonwhites would have no problem fixing the schools.

 

[Tom Iron]

C Darwin,

Thank you for your comment.

Now I have some questions for you. Do you think the students are sharp/ bright in general? How do they seem as far as interest in what you have to say? Do many of your students have attitude problems? What do uyou think of their physical appearance? Do you think some of your students should be allowed to leave school. Are you satisfied with the age to leave school at 16 yrs old?. Do you really say those things to your students about summer school?

Where in NYS do you teach, upstate, downstate (five boroughs), or LI?

Tom Iron...