Against Modern Football!

[frederic38]

i'm OK about the offsides (the technology is ready and it would help a lot)

but for the penalties, it's impossible to know for sure if there was a foul or not sometimes
it's not really about seeing what happened

for example:

here the referee clearly saw that mesbah (what is he doing in a club like ac milan?) pulled puyol's shirt
but he decided not to give a penalty
a replay wouldn't have helped in this situation, since the referee already saw it

here, terry does an obvious handball
everybody saw it, including the referee

but would you give a penalty? (the handball has to be done on purpose to award a penalty)

replay of the handball: http://youtu.be/zAUNfkD0PeU
look at where the 3 referees were: each one of them perfectly saw the handball

would you give this penalty to france?

[video=youtube_share;SGAJYQ_aBx0]http://youtu.be/SGAJYQ_aBx0[/video]

this was the foul that allowed zidane to score his penalty kick in the 2006 world cup final
even with very close replays, it's hard to tell

there was also this penalty during the same world cup:
http://youtu.be/JS5yLSynG2g

the australian player was in grosso's way, but grosso over-acted
i can't tell if it should have been a penalty or not


also during the infamous chelsea-barcelona game, all these "fouls" that should have been punished with a penalty are not so obvious, even with the replay it's not easy to decide (the handballs were real, but it's always the same problem, the handball has to be made on purpose):

http://youtu.be/PENQDQ52SOY


a lot of players nowadays just kick the ball towards the defender, aiming for their arm, because they know the referee can give a penalty


it's even harder to decide whether the referee should give a red card or not




then in some cases the referees don't even respect the rules
especially when a defender prevents a striker from scoring with a foul (it should be a red card) but they feel it's too harsh so they just give a yellow card
for example in paraguay-spain : http://youtu.be/iiJ6QBE-TNE

again, replays wouldn't have helped in this situation

 

[Porthos]

I think the first technology introduced by FIFA will be a lip-reading device which will automatically recognize the word "negro" (or anything vaguely similar), and immediately disqualify the offender for 10 games. This way we can finally "show the red card to racism"...

 

[Giles Daldanus]

Very nice thread, Porthos!

One thing that I have noticed is that most fans who are “against modern football” attach a different meaning to this notion – for instance, they claim to be opposed to teams like Manchester City that are loaded with cash/propped up by billionaires, but regard clubs like Manchester United (which are arguably equally unrepresentative, as they do not have more English players on their roster than Man City) as having preserved the romanticism of the past. They do have a point (Man United are historically among the most successful teams in the world), but the current differences between the two clubs are not that fundamental.

As for rule changes, I am generally as conservative as it gets when it comes to matters like that, but am very much in favour of introducing video replays (especially in matches involving national teams or any type of elimination tournament) in situations where it needs to be determined whether a goal has been properly scored, a red card is warranted, etc. It’s not such an issue in league games, as referee mistakes are more likely to even themselves out over the course of the season (as cliché as it sounds).

Btw, speaking of globalization pressures, it hasn’t been confirmed, but there is the chance that a Copa del Rey final match (during the 2012/2013 La Liga season) could be held in China.

 

[Porthos]

Very nice thread, Porthos!

One thing that I have noticed is that most fans who are “against modern football” attach a different meaning to this notion – for instance, they claim to be opposed to teams like Manchester City that are loaded with cash/propped up by billionaires, but regard clubs like Manchester United (which are arguably equally unrepresentative, as they do not have more English players on their roster than Man City) as having preserved the romanticism of the past. They do have a point (Man United are historically among the most successful teams in the world), but the current differences between the two clubs are not that fundamental.

As for rule changes, I am generally as conservative as it gets when it comes to matters like that, but am very much in favour of introducing video replays (especially in matches involving national teams or any type of elimination tournament) in situations where it needs to be determined whether a goal has been properly scored, a red card is warranted, etc. It’s not such an issue in league games, as referee mistakes are more likely to even themselves out over the course of the season (as cliché as it sounds).

Btw, speaking of globalization pressures, it hasn’t been confirmed, but there is the chance that a Copa del Rey final match (during the 2012/2013 La Liga season) could be held in China.

Thanks. Of course, I can't stand this mania of playing European games in China or Japan or some rich Arab oil-country... This tells you local fans are becoming irrelevant, zero respect for the fan, zero respect for the city these teams represent. Who cares about the local Manchester lad or Real Madrid guy when there is a market of a Billion Chinese or Indians who think wearing a $100 ManU jersey (or a fake local copy) is cool...

Teams even have the token Asian to boost their "brand" in Asia and attract Asian following (Nagatomo in Inter, Park Ji-Sung in Manchester United etc.), the token Arab to attract the following in the Arab world (Benzema in Real) etc.
I would expect in the next 10-15 years to see one important European club to be bought and actually move to these places (American style team transfer). I dont know - a Malaga or Anderlecht moving to Abu-Dhabi or some such thing...

No wonder some fans have taken things in their own hands. For example, MU supporters who hate their team being taken owned by the Jewish swindlers (Glazers) have created their own Manchester United called "United of Manchester".

Other fans (Liverpool, Wimbeldon) are following in the same direction. However, some of the most commercialized teams are actually owned by the fans (Real, Barca, Bayern), so one wonders...

 

[Rebajlo]

I agree with Europe about goal line technology and even limited use of replays. But an astonishing number of soccer fans repeat like muppets "we have to keep the human element" which they hear from pundits on TV and radio. A lot of soccer fans only follow one sport so they often aren't aware that technology has improved other sports.

In my opinion, technology / replays should be used for the purpose of determining whether the ball crossed the line, to resolve any issues pertaining to the offside rule in the event of a "disputed" goal, or to clear up exceedingly "borderline" red card decisions.

Anything else is impractical as it would interfere with the flow of the game.

Chang beer is sold at my local shop. It's dirt cheap but I've never even considered purchasing it because I thought it was from China and thus possibly as dangerous as all that tainted pet food they sold the West a few years ago. I'm not sure I'd buy any beer from Thailand either as they don't have a beer culture. I assume it is watery lager like the other non-Japanese Asian beers I've tried.

I've never touched a drop of Asian beer on principle. The stuff is probably on par with Asian food, which I also avoid like the proverbial plague.

Just out of interest, whenever I return to Australia from the UK, I always miss Mansfield Smooth... :beer:

A lot of what is wrong with the sport stems from the attitudes of the current playing personnel. Take Joey Barton. Given his conduct during the final round match against Manchester City, I thought I'd mention this prick (er, sorry, "bad boy"). Like John Terry, Barton epitomises the arrogant, uneducated housing estate yob who is paid a fortune to play football and is told by society that he is a hero. Talk about pearls before ****ing swine...

Barton is nothing more than a street criminal without the hoodie. In a "healthy" civilisation, this twat would be digging holes. Whether he'd be performing such manual labour for a tiny minimum wage or on a prison chain gang would depend on a combination of his luck and the efficacy of the local constabulary. Preferably, his lead-enhanced corpse would be decomposing in a hole he had earlier been forced to excavate himself...

Let's have a squiz at a few snippets of Barton's exemplary record, shall we? This "sportsman" has:

• stubbed a cigar out on a youth player's eye
• knocked a teammate unconscious in a training ground incident
• punched Blackburn's Morten Gamst Pedersen during a match
• spent just over two months in jail after beating a bloke unconscious and knocking another geezer's teeth out

Here he is upon release from the pen:

Just as a further insight into Barton's "prize winning pedigree", his younger brother Michael is serving a prison sentence for his part in the murder of a Negro kid (not that that is some kind of tragic loss...), who had his head caved in with an ice axe. Michael Barton is the one on the left below:

If last week's on-field aggro is added to this already long list of "transgressions", one could reasonably expect that Barton would be thrown out of the game altogether. But that would be in that abovementioned mythical "healthy" civilisation. As things go, I'm sure that after he sits out his latest ban, he'll either remain at QPR or some other club will pick him up and continue to pay him huge money for being an A1 wanker. But that's the so-called "beauty" of sport...

you can also add the sponsors to the list: on the picture we can see manchester city's sponsor etihad airlines (from united arab emirates)

The City of Manchester Stadium is currently named Etihad Stadium...as is the Docklands Stadium in Melbourne, Victoria...

 

[Matra2]

Take Joey Barton. Given his conduct during the final round match against Manchester City, I thought I'd mention this prick (er, sorry, "bad boy"). Like John Terry, Barton epitomises the arrogant, uneducated housing estate yob who is paid a fortune to play football and is told by society that he is a hero. Talk about pearls before ****ing swine...

Barton is nothing more than a street criminal without the hoodie.

So I take it you're not buying into this whole Joey-Barton-misunderstood-intellectual thing then?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/16/joey-barton-noam-chomsky

On Man City's Arab owners - they announced yesterday that season ticket prices are going up 9% for next year.

 

[Europe]

"A lot of what is wrong with the sport stems from the attitudes of the current playing personnel. Take Joey Barton. Given his conduct during the final round match against Manchester City, I thought I'd mention this prick (er, sorry, "bad boy"). Like John Terry, Barton epitomises the arrogant, uneducated housing estate yob who is paid a fortune to play football and is told by society that he is a hero. Talk about pearls before ****ing swine..."

There are some nuts like Barton. But, I will say some of the things the South American players do is really despicable. Tevez blatantly kicked Barton right before Barton's elbow. Barton should have just waited and nailed Tevez with a vicious tackle then he would have only gotten a yellow card.

Here is the Chilean's reaction to Terry's knee. You will see how he realizes he should fall down and act hurt after what really was nothing but a tap on the butt. You'll get a good view at about 50 seconds.

<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); ">[video]http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2012/04/24/video-john-terry-red-card-vs-barcelona-chelsea-champions-league-knees-sanchez-sent-off/[/video]

I guess we are only allowed one video. See below for others.

 

[Europe]

Here is Argentinian Simeoni nailing Beckham in the 98 WC and Beckham just raising his leg and getting a red card.

[video=youtube;0Rsc-7TZ9T8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rsc-7TZ9T8[/video]

 

[Europe]

Here we have Aguero overreacting to Barton's knee at about 1:41.

[video=youtube;3xK2iW8u6XU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xK2iW8u6XU[/video]

The English and other European players have to start acting like wimps and roll around on the ground every time someone touches them. That's what Beckham should have done.

 

[frederic38]

[video=youtube_share;YXtw7CHn4KI]http://youtu.be/YXtw7CHn4KI[/video]

:grin:

 

[Europe]

[video=youtube_share;YXtw7CHn4KI]http://youtu.be/YXtw7CHn4KI[/video]

:grin:

That's the all time winner.

 

[Porthos]

Hoolywoodesque goal celebrations. Comming soon to stadia close to you:

[video=youtube;AleYSkW2LoQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AleYSkW2LoQ[/video]

 

[Rebajlo]

So I take it you're not buying into this whole Joey-Barton-misunderstood-intellectual thing then?

Matra2 - Well spotted, mate :icon_wink:

There are some nuts like Barton. But, I will say some of the things the South American players do is really despicable. Tevez blatantly kicked Barton right before Barton's elbow. Barton should have just waited and nailed Tevez with a vicious tackle then he would have only gotten a yellow card.

Europe -

I fully concur. I've never been shy in airing my sentiments concerning South American diving and playacting... :icon_wink:

The reason I have taken the time to specifically discuss John Terry and Joey Barton is that their appallingly unprofessional explosions of rash thuggery occurred in matches of literally vital importance and that their actions could potentially have led to disastrous outcomes for their respective clubs. As I've already talked about the circumstances surrounding Terry in the Champions League thread, I'll expound a bit about Barton.

Barton earned his foolish red card in the 55th minute of a match played on the final day of the season, a match which had everything riding on it not only for his own club, but for two others (Manchester United and Bolton Wanderers).

Barton was sent off with the scored locked at 1-1, with his club requiring a draw to categorically retain their Premier League status independent of other results. His despicable lack of self-control put his teammates at a huge disadvantage, despite the fact that they actually managed to get ahead against the run of play before finally conceding two goals in injury time to lose 3-2. Had Bolton managed to hold on to their lead at Stoke, they would have finished a point above QPR and Barton's club would have been relegated.

If, on the other hand, Barton had retained his composure (perhaps, as You suggested, later exacting his revenge on Tevez in the form of a bone-crunching tackle for the "safer" price of a yellow card) maybe with eleven men QPR could have held out for a win or a draw. This, in turn, would have changed the destination of the championship, with Manchester United finishing clear of City and therefore winning a record-extending twentieth title.

QPR apparently pay Barton a whopping 80,000 quid per week (who needs an education, eh?). In exchange for this fantasy dosh, the club expects professionalism and responsibility (although, given his past behaviour, QPR should have known what they were in for prior to signing him, so it serves them bloody well right...). The club isn't paying the prick a barrow load of bunce to needlessly get sent off, let alone in a match on which their top-flight survival hinges.

That's my gripe - the lack of professionalism. As anyone who has ever played the game will know, it's always tempting to lash out when one is being riled by opponents (and, believe me, the same goes for fan violence). But there's a difference between kicking or elbowing a bloke during a local amateur match which doesn't involve high stakes - financial or otherwise - and doing the same in a Champions League semi-final or in a Premier League match when one's club is staring relegation in the face. In Barton's case, the difference is about GBP 80,000 per week...

Barton has been suspended for twelve matches and fined GBP 75,000. The fine, of course, totals less than his gross weekly wage, but QPR shall also impose their own financial penalties. Such a lengthy suspension means that he cannot play for QPR again until November, so the club is keen to offload him - which may be a bit difficult, as there are three years left on his contract...

 

[frederic38]

i don't follow this very closely, but i heard that italian serie A still has the same corruption problems
i read that buffon did very strange things (it will be hard to sue him, but every body know that he was involved in match fixing or something like that)
in one of the last matches of the season, i remeber that buffon gifted a goal, the same way a black keeper like apoula edel would do it, it was really unexpected from this goal keeper, one of the best and one of the safiest ones

http://youtu.be/vxf6cEVIE0w

there was also something very strange involving napoli's goal keeper de sanctis:

http://youtu.be/kOYRSj4HwRs

his team was leading 3-1, and this is his reaction to the 4th goal


i watched some serieA matches this season and some were very strange

i think that "strange" was the word i used the most this season to describe serie A matches:
http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...ders-2011-2012?p=246969&viewfull=1#post246969

 

[Porthos]

Intrusion of the gay dominated "fashion industry' into football has yielded some strange results.

Barcelona's new jerseys:

France's "hello sailor" jersey:

Those were the days - Manchester United 1964, no logos, no tattoos, proper manly haircuts, simple jerseys (until 1992 - numbers from 1 to 11), proper bearing, no negroes:

 

[Porthos]

Celebrity crazy fans.
Dortmund pitch after the "celebration" of the Bundesliga title (May 2012) - yes, even the Germans:

 

[Porthos]

Repression against football fans. Testicle biting dogs employed against supposed "hooligans" in Poland during Euros http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Testicle+biting+dogs+readied+England+hooligans/6751132/story.html

"Poland's anti-hooligan squads are armed with: Shotguns firing baton rounds that probably won't kill you as long as you're 30m away, a truck-mounted water cannon affectionately known as 'the typhoon', a high-tech sonic cannon that can make you wet yourself on its lowest setting, dogs trained to bite you directly in the testicles."

Given the circumstances, they showing a remarkable restraint in not deploying nuclear weapons. All this will probably be put to good use as soon as the first banana is thrown at Balottelli.

 

[frederic38]

another asian player to manchester united? what a surprise!

that's kagawa from the german bundesliga, a league where each team has an asian player to appeal to the asian market (same than the arab players in spain)

and since we were talking about the new fancy jerseys, this one looks strange

 

[Rebajlo]

and since we were talking about the new fancy jerseys, this one looks strange

At least they won't have to pack a tablecloth in the team picnic basket...

 

[frederic38]

just some articles and quotes about german bundesliga's asian players:

http://www.supersport.com/football/article.aspx?Id=385243

Players such as Ji-Sung Park have enhanced the profile of the EPL across parts of Asia and now Manchester United, and a variety of other clubs, are coming out to Asia during pre-season to entertain the global audience.

In 2008, with imports such as Japanese midfielder Shinji Ono and in recent times, Shinji Kagawa, the Bundesliga has expanded its coverage and now the league is available in over 100 countries.

http://backpagefootball.com/the-growing-asian-impact-on-bundesliga/19570/

 

[Porthos]

And here are some modern jerseys from Mexico:

"Jaguares":

...and the "shock and awe" goalkeeper:

 

[frederic38]

the 90's are the one to blame! :icon_grin:

 

[Porthos]

other asian player to manchester united? what a surprise!

that's kagawa from the german bundesliga, a league where each team has an asian player to appeal to the asian market (same than the arab players in spain)

and since we were talking about the new fancy jerseys, this one looks strange

Kagawa actually is a pretty good player, the best Asian player I've seen so far, and one of the best Dortmund players, he had a great season with 13 goals and 12 assists in Bundesliga is no simple to achieve. Of course, being Japanese puts a premium on him... Also, it remains to be seen how he will do in the much more "physical" EPL.

 

[John]

- Outrageously expensive tickets and VIP lounges (used to be cheap, working class, "people's sport")

I've been wondering about the increasing commercialization of the game since the 1990s. Will the expensive TV deals, high ticket prices, expensive merchandise, etc have the effect of turning away negroes away from the sport? In America, for example, football doesn't reach big audiences because it's not widely available on free TV: you need to subscribe to sports packages similar to Sky Sports to watch football on TV. Really the only ones who can afford all of this are the rich parents of White kids. Consuming football today is very expensive - not working-class at all.

 

[frederic38]

ahaha, look at this:

this is giroud's official presentation at arsenal
he plays without shoes :cheesy:
probably because giroud has a contract with puma and arsenal with nike

otherwise the jersey looks great, not too fancy