Against Modern Football!

[frederic38]

Chris Waddle is more famous in the UK for a penalty miss in Turin against West Germany than for anything else in this entire career. When you type his name into Google "penalty" is the first thing that comes up.:icon_lol:

it's a shame
marseille at that time had some of the best players in the world, and waddle was one of them
marseille's best players of all times arer papin and waddle

 

[Porthos]

Even in this era of rootles footbal mercenaries there are still some player who prefer to stick with one tean for a very long time. Here's a list of "most loyal" players (source transfermarkt.de):

Name (age, nationality) club length of stay

Rogério Ceni (39, Brasil) FC Sao Paulo 22 years 09 months
Ryan Giggs (38, Wales) Manchester United 21 years 11 months
Francesco Totti (36 , Italy) AS Roma 19 years 09 months
Oleksandr Shovkovsky (37, Ukraine)Dynamo Kiev 19 years 03 months
Oka Nikolov (38 Macedonia) Eintracht Frankfurt 19 years 03 months
Tórur Mortensen (35, Faroe Isl.) TB Tvöroyri 18 years 09 months
Petter Wasta (36, Sweden) Kalmar FF 18 years 09 months
Frode Lafton (36, Norway) Hönefoss BK 18 years 09 months
Henrik Rydström (36, Sweden) Kalmar FF 18 years 10 months
Nobuhisa Yamada (37, Japan) Urawa Red Diamonds 18 years 09 months
Sören Jochumsen (36, Denmark) AC Horsens 18 years 03 months
Gilbert Agius (38, Malta) Valletta FC 18 years 03 months
Marinos Satsias (34, Cyprus) APOEL Nikosia 17 years 03 months
Javier Zanetti (39. Argentina) Inter Milan 17 years 03 months
Herbert í Lon (32, Faroe Isl) B36 Tórshavn 16 years 09 months
Nir Davidovitch (35, Israel) Maccabi Haifa 16 years 11 months
Jamie Carragher (34, England) FC Liverpool 16 years 03 months
Colin Nixon (34, Ireland) Glentoran FC 16 years 03 months
Dzintars Zirnis (35, Latvia) FHK Liepajas Metalurgs 15 years 09 months
James Fowler (31, Scotland) Kilmarnock FC 15 years 03 months
Steven Gerrard (32, England) FC Liverpool 15 years 03 months
Gianpaolo Bellini (32, Italy) Atalanta Bergamo 15 years 03 months
Michael Mörz (32, Austria) SV Mattersburg 15 years 03 months
Massimo Ambrosini (35,Italy) AC Milan 15 years 03 months
Abdelwahed El Sayed (35, Egypt) Zamalek SC 15 years 03 months

 

[frederic38]

2 things i don't like in modern football:

*the first one is inimportant: it annoys me to see so many players touching the ball with their sole ( don't know if it's the right term):

it's less eficient than touching the ball with the inside/outside of the foot so there is no reason to do it
when players take free kicks, sometimes one of the players pushes the ball so that another player gets a better shooting angle:

[video=youtube;awwe49fHH7w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awwe49fHH7w[/video]

in this example, the player (in a video game) pushes the ball with the inside of his foot, but many players do it with their sole

*time wasting
this is a major problem, it ruins many games
when a team is leading, their players start being overly sensitive, everytime they get touched by an opponent they fall over and they cry, it takes ages to get them back up, and most of the time they ask the medical staff to come, then the player gets up and he takes ages to slowly walk off the ptch, then he has to come back
you can waste a lot of minutes by doing this
also when there's a substitution (the coaches time their substitutions so that it will stop a good sequence for the other team, and they almost never make 3 changes at the same time, because it would be too quick) the player acts like he doesn't know that he's sasked to go off, so it takes a few seconds more, then he walks off the pitch instead of running
and if your opponent waste time in injury time, the referee won't let you play a few minutes more
if i was a coach i would ask my players to do this, because it gives you such a big advantage!

the rule has to change
currently, the rule is laughable
the referee has to decide randomly how many minutes of added time will be played
the referee decides randomly, nobody is suposed to count the minutes that were wasted during the match
if you do the job yourself, if you add up the minutes that were wasted in a match, and if you compare it to the actual added time decided by the referee, you'll see that the added time doesn't make up for all the minutes that were wasted
that's because he doesn't keep track of the amount of time that was wasted, nobody amongst the assistant referees either

so they can do a few things:

*they can actually count the minutes wasted during a match, and also during injury time, so that the actual play time will be 90 minutes in every match
they don't do that currently

*they can do the same as in basketball, stop the clock everytime the game is stopped

*they could change the rules and make soccer be like tennis for example: the first team to score 5 goals wins the match, without time limit

 

[ThePhilosopher]

*they could change the rules and make soccer be like tennis for example: the first team to score 5 goals wins the match, without time limit

Well,that rule sounds good.In fact it would've saved Villa a hell lot of embarrassment the other day.

Regarding time wasting,I think something must change.Ideally stopping the clock whenever the ball goes out of play.
I think an average of 15 minutes is lost per game because of this.And the "time-wasting" is even worse in stoppage time.

 

[Porthos]

It's hard to understand why Le Tissier didn't get more starts for England. It's as if England managers didn't like any player with skill: It's unEnglish to play with skill.:icon_rolleyes:

Chris Waddle is more famous in the UK for a penalty miss in Turin against West Germany than for anything else in this entire career. When you type his name into Google "penalty" is the first thing that comes up.:icon_lol:

Meanwhile, we are half way through the first half and England still haven't scored against San Marino (population 30,000). The Dutch don't look very good against Andorra either.

There seems to exist in the English footballing psyche an inherent distrust of the technical player. Therefore, England have a history of wasting talent. Frank Worthington, Stanley Bowles, Steve McManaman, Matt Le Tissier, Glenn Hoddle, Joe Cole... the list goes on.

 

[Porthos]

Well,that rule sounds good.In fact it would've saved Villa a hell lot of embarrassment the other day.

Regarding time wasting,I think something must change.Ideally stopping the clock whenever the ball goes out of play.
I think an average of 15 minutes is lost per game because of this.And the "time-wasting" is even worse in stoppage time.

Be careful what you wish for. How long before some bright marketing head comes up with the idea of filling these breaks with the infamous "television timeouts"? Thanks God, we don't have that - yet.

 

[Porthos]

Borussia Dortmund's "Footballnaut". In theory a "cool" new piece of technology. In practice, not sure how much this is different from a normal passing training. It's like playing tennis against one of those infernal machines instead of another player. Technology overload, in my opinion.

[video=youtube;JUBgdyleCkA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUBgdyleCkA[/video]

 

[Europe]

"*time wasting
this is a major problem, it ruins many games
when a team is leading, their players start being overly sensitive, everytime they get touched by an opponent they fall over and they cry, it takes ages to get them back up, and most of the time they ask the medical staff to come, then the player gets up and he takes ages to slowly walk off the ptch, then he has to come back
you can waste a lot of minutes by doing this
also when there's a substitution (the coaches time their substitutions so that it will stop a good sequence for the other team, and they almost never make 3 changes at the same time, because it would be too quick) the player acts like he doesn't know that he's sasked to go off, so it takes a few seconds more, then he walks off the pitch instead of running
and if your opponent waste time in injury time, the referee won't let you play a few minutes more
if i was a coach i would ask my players to do this, because it gives you such a big advantage!

the rule has to change
currently, the rule is laughable
the referee has to decide randomly how many minutes of added time will be played
the referee decides randomly, nobody is suposed to count the minutes that were wasted during the match"

I don't know why the fourth official doesn't keep track of the time.

Sometimes they do let the time go a min or 2 or 3 past the official extra time if they think time was wasted due to injury or other things in extra time, but it doesn't always happen.

Are they supposed to add time if a goal was scored during regular time?

I never really see coaches disrupting play by putting in players at a specific time as you said. Sometimes a player waits many minutes to get into the game. You can't really stop a break by putting in a player. Don't they wait until the ball goes out of play?

I agree I don't like how they put a player in at the 91st min and everybody just strolls around. There should be time added for that. Sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't.

I hate how they walk off too. Then if they do make 2 changes at once each player has to wait for the guy he is replacing to come off before he goes on. They both should just run on and off at the same time.

I would like to see the broadcast keep track of time and then match it up to what the official says.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

Be careful what you wish for. How long before some bright marketing head comes up with the idea of filling these breaks with the infamous "television timeouts"? Thanks God, we don't have that - yet.

True.I hardly want a soccer matches to be interrupted time and again like in a cricket broadcast.

 

[frederic38]

Are they supposed to add time if a goal was scored during regular time?
[/COLOR]

no, there are no rules actually, the referee is just suposed to say how many additional minutes should be played according to him
but he doesn't keep track of wasted time because he has much other things to do
usually, they just add 30 seconds per substitution, and the rest is random, if there was an injury he may add 1 minute

I never really see coaches disrupting play by putting in players at a specific time as you said. Sometimes a player waits many minutes to get into the game. You can't really stop a break by putting in a player. Don't they wait until the ball goes out of play?

i didn't use the right term
the right term would be to "stop the oponent's momentum"
sometimes you are totally dominated and you just know that your oponent will score, get a penalty or a red card, that's when coaches do a substitution, then the other team has to rebuild their momentum
the ball has to be out of play to do a substitution (or there must be a free kick) but sometimes the oponents are trying to play quickly the free-kick or the throw-in but they can't because there's a substitution

I would like to see the broadcast keep track of time and then match it up to what the official says.

you can do it yourself with a watch
count the time wasted during goal celebrations, substitutions, arguing with the referee for a penalty (sometimes it can waste 1 minute), fake or real injuries, and compare it with the added time given by the referee
if the referee gets it right it would only be by luck because he doesn't count time, he just adds 30 seconds per substitution and he does the rest randomly

do this for the second half mainly

the worst is when a goal keeper gets a red card, and has to be replaced by another goal keeper, it takes ages and the other players are arguing with the referee as well

 

[Europe]

no, there are no rules actually, the referee is just suposed to say how many additional minutes should be played [COLOR=#009900 !important]according to[/COLOR] him
but he doesn't keep track of wasted time because he has much other things to do
usually, they just add 30 seconds per substitution, and the rest is random, if there was an injury he may add 1 minute

There was a game maybe 10 years ago that was considered a classic involving Man Untd. People always said that they got too much time put on when they needed it. In this game there was something like 9 min or so added on and nobody could believe it. They went back and looked at the game and clocked all the time and it actually came out about right. So the official was actually keeping pretty close track for once. I'll have to see if I can find the game. Does anybody remember it?

 

[Matra2]

Did the fourth official indicate there'd be nine minutes or was this before they did that?

In the days before they put up the sign there were lots of controversies because the ref kept it as a secret. When the World Cup was held in the USA American journalists couldn't believe it.

In the early 90s in the old UEFA Cup Linfield, a small team from Belfast, were beating Copenhagen on aggregate and on their way to a huge payday against AC Milan in the next round when the referee added a lot of injury time which no one could understand. In this long injury time Copenhagen scored and went through. It always seemed like on those occasions when the ref added more time than was expected that it was to the advantage of a big team. Man United for example.:icon_mad: Google "Fergie time".

 

[frederic38]

the first manchester united match i ever saw was the champions league final against bayern munchen, when they were losing 1-0 and won 2-1 thanks to the substitutes sherrigham and solkjear
now they have the mexican striker hernandez who scores a lot when he comes in as a substitute
manchester city started to take this part of the match very seriously too with dzeko who scored many late goals
but it's true that the big teams get more added time
the last time i noticed it wasagainst basel in the last year's champions league, i posted about the fergie time back then
sometimes if there is a big injury or a problem in the stadium the referee will know exactly how much time was wasted, but for little injuries he doesn't measure time precisely
the 4th referee could do it because he has less things to worry about than the referee

 

[frederic38]

regarding added time:

i'm watching real madrid-real sociedad, 2-2 at half time

there was a penalty and a red card for real madrid's goalkeeper and he had to be replaced, it takes a long time because the other goalkeeper has to put his gloves on, and everybody is arguing with the referee

so during the first half there was 3 wasted minutes between the momment the referee gave the penalty and the momment when the penalty was shot by the real sociedad player
and you have to add 4 goal celebrations to that

the referee gave 2 minutes of added time


and also regarding modern football, i hate these partnerships between clubs and leagues:
here is the partnership between atlettico madrid and a club from thailand, which could lead to a player from thailandplaying in atletico madrid:

http://soccerlens.com/atletico-madr...with-thai-champions-muang-thong-united/59793/

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/a...ai-superstar-teerasil-dangda-on-2-week-trial/

 

[Europe]

Here is a list of the countries who have the most players playing abroad in Uefa's 31 leagues.

1. Brazil 515 players
2. France 269
3. Serbia 205
4. Argentina 188
5. Portugal 171
6. Spain 148
7. Germany 125
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]8. Nigeria 117[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]As we see the hated Brazil has 515 players playing in Europe. 820 players from the top 3 non-European countries alone are taking the places of European players.[/FONT]

 

[frederic38]

Here is a list of the countries who have the most players playing abroad in Uefa's 31 leagues.

1. Brazil 515 players
2. France 269
3. Serbia 205
4. Argentina 188
5. Portugal 171
6. Spain 148
7. Germany 125
8. Nigeria 117

As we see the hated Brazil has 515 players playing in Europe. 820 players from the top 3 non-European countries alone are taking the places of European players.

and many of the french players are not very european either :mmph:

 

[frederic38]

i didn't know about this chinese player, the first asian to play for manchester united aparently:

http://wildeastfootball.net/2011/04/dong-fangzhuo-the-travelling-disappointment-that-never-gave-up/

a marketing player, like benzema at real madrid (for the asian market instead of the middle-eastern market)

In 2004, out of nowhere, Manchester United suddenly announced they will be signing a prominent Chinese star named Dong Fangzhuo. There wasn’t much information about this young talent, the fans only knew he played for Dalian Shide and he has amazing speed.

The Chinese fans had high expectations of the young lad. If this nameless kid was chosen by Sir Alex Ferguson, he must have something to offer for the team. Sun Jihai had already gained much attention playing for Manchester City F.C., increasing Chinese fans desire to see more Chinese stars on the English pitch.

 

[Arend]

Yesterday, „1899 Hoffenheim“, currently the most hated side in German lost their self-declared match of the season against their also relegation-threatened rival Augsburg with 2-1. Their season started actually with high hopes and the firm ambition to play international next season, and in a few years maybe even in the Champions League. Now, after 23 played games they rank 17[SUP]th[/SUP], two points behind Augsburg and 11 points behind Wolfsburg and the saving 15th place.

While the English have their Sheiks and the Russians have their Oligarchs, the Germans have Hoffenheim (and some other Teams like Wolfsburg, but that is another story) and their patron Dietmar Hopp, one of the founders of the software company SAP and one of the richest men in Germany. Without him -or better yet- without his money Hoffenheim would still be where they really belong, somewhere in fifth or sixth division. They are hardly anything else than Hopps plaything.

He sinvested 100 Mio € alone in Hoffenheims new stadium, and in nine years (from 2000-2009) he invested a total of 175 Mio € in Hoffenheim. Today the aggregate amount of his investments will be over 200 Mio € (Huge amount of money by German standarts). Hopp, who had played in the club's youth setup, started supporting the club in 2000, when Hoffenheim were playing in the fifth division of German football. He started with a pledge to nurture young, talented players from the region, a promise that was quickly broken by Hopp after the desired success wasn’t achieved as quickly as Hopp wanted it. The problem is that Hopp sees Hoffenheim rather as an investment than a matter of the heart. They bought Brazilians, Africans and Bosnians and also some youth players –from their local rivals Stuttgart, Karlsruhe and Mannheim.

Fan protest in Hamburg ("Separated by more than just 12 years") and Dortmund against Hoffenheim
No soul, no (fan) culture, no heart, and hopefully no future in the Bundesliga. They won’t be missed.

 

[Porthos]

I thought that by German Law 50%+1 share of the club's shares must be owned by the fans, which looked like a great and very healthy model. Is there a way for plutocrats of going around this?
There is an annoying proliferation of "artificial" clubs in modern football (i.e. clubs without fans, but just toys of some moneybag capitalist or clubs acting as talent agencies).
There are a number of these. You mentioned Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg (which is owned by Volksvagen, if I'm not wrong). In Italy they have Chievo which is a plaything of Luca Campedelli, a food industry magnate. Then there is Red Bull Salzburg in Austria (ex Austria Salzburg), used as a marketing ploy by Red Bull energy drinks company and their boss Dietrich Mateschitz. In Croatia there is Lokomotiva Zagreb, actually a reserve team of Dinamo Zagreb. Both teams are allowed to play in the same (first) division and Lokomotiva promptly loses all their matches against their parent club and has an average of about 50 spectators per game.
Udinese Calcio (which is more and more a scouting and placement agency for Third World players than a real team) owner Giampaolo Pozzo recently bought struggling Watford (a second division English side) and Granada (a Spanish team playing in La Liga) to be used as overflow/shop windows for players not able to play in Udinese, so they can showcase more players to the scouts of big teams. The whole thing is really a gigantic feeder operation. And the list goes on... Modern football indeed.

 

[Arend]

I thought that by German Law 50%+1 share of the club's shares must be owned by the fans, which looked like a great and very healthy model. Is there a way for plutocrats of going around this?

In theory no, but in reality it is often another story though. In case of Hoffenheim for example, it more a question of “He who pays the piper, calls the tuneâ€. While Hopp “only†holds a 49% share, it is pretty much common knowledge that he also controls the other 51% through the Turn- und Sportgemeinschaft 1899 Hoffenheim e. V.

The other two notable exceptions in the Bundesliga are Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg, owned by the Bayer AG and Volkswagen (both 100% corporate property). That is only possible because both Volkswagen und Bayer were longer than 20 years involved with the clubs. (Deadline: 01.01.1999). While Bayer makes sure that Leverkusen doesn’t spend too much money or work even deficient, Wolfsburg gets pretty much as much money as they want from Volkswagen, with modest accomplishments to say the least. They also pay their players astronomic salaries, their Brazilian Diego for example earns 8,2 Mio € a year, bonuses not included.

Apart from that, Adidas and Audi are both involved with Bayern Munich (both hold a 9,1% share), and 1860 Munich have some Jordan guy named Hasan Ismaik. Red Bull bought a license from a smaller club located in Leipzig and renamed it “Rasen Ballsport Leipzig†because in Germany it is not allowed to have a sponsor in the club name or logo. The name actually makes no sense and means something like “Turf Ballsports Leipzigâ€.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

These guys are against modern fotball too..

True fans of Borrusia Dortmund.

Far-right extremists in the west German city of 600,000 inhabitants have been able to infiltrate some of Borussia Dortmund's fanatical supporter groups, recruiting sympathizers and leading to an upsurge in thuggish behavior and violent attacks.

Dortmund, in the heartland of the industrial Ruhr area, has long been a magnet for immigrants from all over the world. It also serves as a focal point for neo-Nazis in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. In no other German state are more right-wing offences recorded.

You gotta love these Germans!Next time hopefully,they will liberate the world from the jews,once and for all.

 

[Porthos]

Here's a tale about a team which is as anti-"modern football" as it gets - the Czech team Viktoria Plzen.

The team is owned by the City of Plzen (no Jewish Gangsters or Arab Sheiks, thank you very much), the budget of the whole club is a grand total of 3.2M Euros (80M Czech Crowns according to this article http://www.praguepost.com/news/10058-viktoria-plze�ˆ-wins-huge-payday.html ), i.e. their whole team's yearly budget is worth about 15% of Balotelli's transfer fee from ManCity to AC Milan!
And yet they managed to win the Czech Championship last year, and played in the Group stage of the Champions league, finishing third in a tough group behind Barcelona and Milan.
This year they play in Europa League and just destroyed the Italian giants Napoli - currently second in Serie A - (3:0 in Naples, 2:0 in Plzen) and advanced into the round of 16 where they will play against the Turkish team Fenerbahce.
Oh, and did I mention their roster is completely white and almost completely Czech (with a couple os Slovakians)?
The Napoli fans complained all over the internet about their team of super-fit billionaires being trashed by a team whose players appear to have beer-bellies. Indeed, here's the picture of Viktoria's captain and best player ever, the 37-years old Pavel Horvath :icon_mrgreen: :

Le's hope this fairy tale continues. Go Victoria!!!!

 

[frederic38]

plzen :happy:
the europa league allows us to see teams like that
i remeber last year they played well against ac milan in champions league

 

[frederic38]

Here is a list of the countries who have the most players playing abroad in Uefa's 31 leagues.

1. Brazil 515 players
2. France 269
3. Serbia 205
4. Argentina 188
5. Portugal 171
6. Spain 148
7. Germany 125
8. Nigeria 117

As we see the hated Brazil has 515 players playing in Europe. 820 players from the top 3 non-European countries alone are taking the places of European players.

a breakdown by continent:

roughly 1/4 of the professional players in the top "european" leagues are from africa (not includingt he french-born blacks, just the africans)

 

[Europe]

a breakdown by continent:

roughly 1/4 of the professional players in the top "european" leagues are from africa (not includingt he french-born blacks, just the africans)

That's outrageous.There must be a lot in countries like Belgium.