2020 NFL Draft

[Chad]

this was pretty much just briefly mentioned then glossed over by the talking heads, but it is a noteworthy effort, nonetheless. (and to be clear, i’m not convinced that the bench press is a good evaluation of football strength.)

Arizona State punter Michael Turk put up 25 reps on the 225lb-bench press. to put that in perspective, of the athletes who lifted, he outperformed 19 linemen, all 33 wide receivers, and all but 2 tight ends. he out performed (among other “all world” affletes from years past) Jadaveon Clowney and Demarcus Lawrence. “funny” how when a White athlete does something like this, it is dismissed as not translating to the field (can anyone say running the 40 in shorts?), but when a non-White athlete puts up a crazy measure it is vitally important.

regardless, this White man has clearly put in the work in the weight room.

reminds me of Mitch Trubisky

nothing we can't do brothers

Mind over matter

 

[Don Wassall]

It's amazing how they still act shocked when there's a White guy that runs fast at the combine pretty much every year, when there's very few invited, isn't it like a handful of guys each year if we're lucky?

Last year was Isabella, the year before Apke, 2017 McCaffrey , before that Jeff Janis, Danny Coale, Ryan Spadola, Devon Wylie, Kevin Jurovich, Blair White, Connor Barwin, Hartline, Tom Zbikowski, Eric Weddle, Anthony Gonzalez, Sabby Pisciteli etc all went sub 4.5. I would say we've had around 20 or so guys invited in that time frame at the RB/WR/DB positions

There's 100s of black skill position players invited every year and less than half crack sub 4.5. I know 40 times aren't everything but it's often used against our guys.

Ryan Swope and Matt Jones both went sub-4.4. One of my lasting draft images is of Jones being selected in 2005, with ESPN then showing his picture along with a graphic at the bottom that said "tight end." That sums up the Caste System in a nutshell about as well as anything.

 

[Don Wassall]

Muse is an obvious beast. The question now is whether the NFL will "allow" him to be a rare outlier at safety (even though he could easily dominate at cornerback with his speed and size), or whether he'll be this year's David Sills (and not even be drafted).

With Weddle retired we're now down to Harrison Smith and a couple much derided starters in Sorensen and Heath. Andrew Wingard looked really good when he played at the end of the '19 season but he wasn't drafted which makes his journey that much more difficult. Troy Apke also looked good but on Daniel Snyder's team the odds are stacked against him ever getting the opportunity to blossom, especially with new head coach Ron Rivera, who never allowed Colin Jones and his 4.34 speed and tackling ability to be more than a WSTD.

 

[dwid]

Ryan Swope and Matt Jones both went sub-4.4. One of my lasting draft images is of Jones being selected in 2005, with ESPN then showing his picture along with a graphic at the bottom that said "tight end." That sums up the Caste System in a nutshell about as well as anything.

Yep I forgot about Swope and not to mention there were guys like Jake Sharp, Sam McGuffie and Woodhead that never got to showcase their athletic ability at the combine. Instead they invite players like Kahlil Bell with his impressive college resume:

Bell posted a 4.74 40 and his other drills weren't good but the Bears kept him over Sharp. Sharp was the best in every drill at KU's pro day.


And as for Woodhead being from D2, a few years later Joique Bell also won the Harlon Hill trophy and was invited to the combine. Like the other Bell, his measurables were below average posting a 4.68. He's carved out a decent career but there's probably dozens of White backs at small schools with better skillsets each year yet I'm told there's no discrimination going on.

The whole argument "if they're good enough the NFL will find them" only applies to non Whites. Cecil Shorts and Pierre Garçon didn't have any problems getting into the NFL from d3. There's a guy Andrew Kamienski who had over 2000 yards receiving 31 TDs last year and I doubt he will have interest from the NFL. Of course everyone knows Nate Kmic who broke the all time rushing record, zero interest from the NFL despite playing on the same teams as Garçon and Shorts

 

[Booth]

I don't know if it was a hand time 40yd time but, in high school Muse ran a 4.34 40. I know he wasn't as heavy as he is now but he had to be at least 220lbs. A very good baseball player as well.

 

[Don Wassall]

Winovich and Tuszka on the Pats' D this year?

These Under-The-Radar Prospects Could Interest Patriots After NFL Combine

As the New England Patriots prepare for the next step in the pre-draft process, here are eight under-the-radar prospects — players who weren’t household names entering combine week — whose performances in Indianapolis piqued our interest: Derrek Tuszka, edge rusher, North Dakota State There are shades of Chase Winovich in Tuszka’s game, and not just because they both sport long blonde hair. Winovich excelled in agility drills at the 2019 combine, and Tuszka did the same this year, posting by far the fastest three-cone time of any edge defender (6.87 seconds) ranking fourth in the short shuttle (4.34 seconds). He was well above average in the 40-yard dash and both jumps, too. Tuszka dominated for the Football Championship Subdivision’s premier program, racking up 104 tackles, 13 1/2 sacks, 19 tackles for loss and five pass breakups as a senior in 2019.

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2020/03/these-under-the-radar-prospects-could-interest-patriots-after-nfl-combine/

 

[Carolina Speed]

I don't know if it was a hand time 40yd time but, in high school Muse ran a 4.34 40. I know he wasn't as heavy as he is now but he had to be at least 220lbs. A very good baseball player as well.

booth, I had my concerns about Muses' 40 time as my son played travel baseball with Tanner when he was 13/14 years old. I'm glad my concerns were squashed! He was no where near a 4.4 back then. He wasn't really fast at all. I would say he was probably 4.9 or 4.8 at best. Just a big gangly kid, but was as you said a good baseball player. He is long legged and gets his stride out there pretty well, I've never seen a kid pick up his speed the way he has. It's easy to believe he ran a hand timed 4.3 after running a 4.4 laser timed. Generally, hand time to laser time is around a tenth off. An athlete that it just took him a little time to grow into his body, so to speak. I'm glad he did. He's very impressive. As someone else posted, Footballdad, I think, he could become a faster Brian Urlacher. I believe Urlacher was a SS in college.

 

[dwid]

Urlacher played a hybrid position, like a safety/lb because New Mexico ran a 3-3-5 defense. His first coach barely used him but the next coach did, he even returned punts/kickoffs and played receiver, catching 6 TDs his last year. Just imagine, if that first coach hadn't left, we probably wouldn't know who Urlacher was, would just be another victim of the caste system. However, Urlacher had bulked up to 258 by his last college season probably sacrificed some speed to do so. He was 230ish before.

 

[white lightning]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...l-combine/ar-BB10HsSs?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U506DHP

 

[TwentyTwo]

Nice conversation.....WHERE do i begin?? Y'all have covered so much! Going down that list of names brings back memories!
Fellow Louisianian Dwid ..Good to see you posting...

Draft dweeb Lance Zierlein's was probably picked on for being a slow white boy in HS PE. So he marginalizes others like him ; to make himself feel better about his inadequacies

Yes sir Shadowlight! Thanks for the props too..there was a reason Tanner Muse was 1st pic in DB Thread! His SPEED was on display when he caught Ohio State RB JK Dobbins from behind on 65 yard run; saving a TD (& maybe the game) in the Feista Bowl! We knew 4.4's were there; @ 227lbs = IMPRESSIVE! !! Of course the tight hips will try to come into play

Have been waiting for another John Lynch (or Harrison Smith/See Avatar) - type to emerge ....sure will miss Eric Weddle.

I have been following Muse's career closely ever since he was a freshman and discussing him here for four years. In fact I may have written about him more than any other college player during that four year period. This is a very personally satisfying moment and yes the first big time caste busting player in this draft.

4.41 is his official time. A total athletic stud and football experts like TwentyTwo and others here like me have really been excited about Muse starting at safety at such a great program like Clemson.

Beautiful folks. Just beautiful.

And one other thing. The guy has the best football face in the draft. Talk about rugged looking.

Easy to see They(#The Undefeated/Goal 20 starting QB's in the NFL one day) have made extra sure to Feature Jordan Love (project/orDeshon Kizer?) ...don't get the hype; 1st Round really? As high as 6th to Chargers?? ...maybe he will prove me wrong because i did not see it.. (eventual Starter?) & Jalen Hurts; who could be a solid back-up QB / Gadget -type...But nowhere near as Fast as Taysom Hill.

 

[Shadowlight]

I am glad TwentyTwo mentioned Taysom Hill (yes Hurts is a good athlete but nowhere near the athlete Hill is) but I will get around to him in a minute.

What media outlet dare label two white safeties from Clemson The Stud Brothers? CF and guess what it was a bulls eye label because if one doesn't think Tanner Muse is a stud then that term needs to be erased from the dictionary. And I might add the other Stud Brother the impressively speedy senior to be Nolan Turner is not on the idiot draft gurus radars but I hope and think with a full season starting under his belt Turner will join his brother Tanner in the NFL. And if that happens it will be one of the great draft stories for 2021 due to Turner's moving back story.

I have changed my draft grade on Tanner and moved him up. After watching him run around in shorts I realized he has a perfect football body. Long limbed and moves with efficiency it becomes obvious that Tanner is one of the safest picks in the draft. If you want to improve your team you draft him. It is not rocket science.

There have been a lot of big black safeties with speed who have failed in the NFL in recent times and given the fact Muse is white the skepticism surrounding Muse of course had been ramped up. Not to mention too many gurus labeled him as slow. Lindy's NFL draft guide estimated his speed at 4.7. Nice job clueless morons.

But Tanner played an enormous 59 games at safety for the best college program in the country ( sorry Alabama) and proved himself a ball hawk as well. So yes he can handle safety at the NFL level.

The comments about the great Urlacher above are somewhat applicable but Urlacher had a bigger frame. It was mentioned above Urlacher lost speed after gaining some weight when transitioning to MLB in the NFL. Tell that to all the running backs he ran down like a flying bear.

I think we should keep a few things in mind about Tanner who is my favorite player in this draft. First he could become a full scale star at safety. I won't rule that out.

Chances are though his long NFL career path might follow a slightly different path. Already because of his downhill tackling talents he will become one of the best or not the best special teams fetch players in the NFL. I know that isn't ideal but it is better than not being in the NFL.

But I also envision this. While slightly hidden ( not from CF) at Clemson in the NFL Tanner will become a household name one way or another. And I predict he will become a wildly popular player. I would elbow every team out of the way to draft him.

I believe in Muse we have the defensive equivalent of Taysom Hill. In other words a jack of all trades athletic stud that you can line up either at OLB ala Nate Gerry and safety. With his toughness and speed he will instantly ignite a defense. He might start off like Hill in a semi gimmick role but the reason I have upgraded his draft grade from fifth to second round is after ten to twelve years down the road he will outflank his counterparts.

With S Troy Apke I was extremely worried but cautiously optimistic he would get drafted. With Muse I am almost certain he will get drafted. Because of the built in hate bias against white skill players he likely won't get picked near the first round ( where he belongs) but look to see him picked early on day three. Which is BS of course.

Muse has made this draft a hell of a lot more interesting. Can't wait to see what team has an actual brain cell and chooses him.

{Late edit. You got to love the reaction of Clemson head coach Dabo Swinney. When asked about Tanner Muse's 4.41 time he just shrugged and said that was totally expected. One reason he is a great coach. A man whose mind isn't cluttered with caste think.]

 

[dwid]

I wasn't saying Urlacher was slow by any means but he was 214 pounds out of high school and yes players do add bulk in college but 44 pounds is quite a bit. It's only natural to assume he would have been faster if he stayed around 230, which is about how much he weighed his junior year when led the nation with 178 tackles. He probably knew he didn't have a good shot as a safety and didn't want to be viewed as a tweener. It worked out well for him but I've followed high school players who bulked up from RB WR and DB and not everyone carries the extra weight well.

I have no doubt Muse will get drafted , I just hope it's to the right team and doesn't get stuck in a strictly special teams spot serving an apprenticeship waiting for an afflete to go down

 

[Chad]

 

[Extra Point]

It's simple. They will say that "he lacks fluidity", that he has "tight hips" and although he is fast, he "lacks burst". There are a few more nonsense terms that could be applied as well. For a smart team, Muse could be the next Harrison Smith. And if he is "forced" to bulk up to linebacker, he might just be the next Brian Urlacher.

Or the classic "he doesn't show it on the field."

 

[FootballDad]

Or the classic "he doesn't show it on the field."

I don't hear that one that much, especially if they have at the college level. I instead hear the variation of that: "Doesn't translate to the next level." This is one of the most insidious of the put-downs as DWF's eat it up. So, a player is dominating the SAME PLAYERS that he will see in the NFL on the college level, but it somehow "won't translate?" I've said it before, but DWFs, scouts and coached must think that blacks automatically increase in ability the second their name is called in the draft. It's one of those magical qualitities that whitey doesn't have.

 

[white is right]

this was pretty much just briefly mentioned then glossed over by the talking heads, but it is a noteworthy effort, nonetheless. (and to be clear, i’m not convinced that the bench press is a good evaluation of football strength.)

Arizona State punter Michael Turk put up 25 reps on the 225lb-bench press. to put that in perspective, of the athletes who lifted, he outperformed 19 linemen, all 33 wide receivers, and all but 2 tight ends. he out performed (among other “all world” affletes from years past) Jadaveon Clowney and Demarcus Lawrence. “funny” how when a White athlete does something like this, it is dismissed as not translating to the field (can anyone say running the 40 in shorts?), but when a non-White athlete puts up a crazy measure it is vitally important.

regardless, this White man has clearly put in the work in the weight room.

He's the nephew of Matt Turk and the late Dan Turk. Matt was more of a country strong type who probably didn't lift weights in his upper body, but his late brother was an offensive lineman who played close to 15 years in the NFL, the genetics for strength is there.

I actually like the new punters most now aren't liabilities in the punt coverage and with former world class rugby players and guys like this if they grab a hold of the ball carrier he is violently hitting the turf. I remember in the distant past many punters would turtle and try and legally trip a runner on big run, no more with the new wave of punters.

 

[white is right]

The black BJ fest ( known to the public as the NFL Combine) has started and as expected it is mostly a grim exercise in non life affirming moments.

Ring master Rich Eisen is back and that alone gives you a glimpse of what the gates of hell looks like. What a stinking twerp.

The entire crew like little school girls were waiting for Alabama WR Ruggs to run a record setting 40 yard dash. He fell short ( thank God) with a 4.27 ( dropped from a 4.28 somehow) yet that didn't stop the entire crew from actually crying. Prick ass wipe Charley Casserly claimed he had a 4.2 flat on his caste sucking watch. By the way the trend continues. Some choice black runners get faster official times than originally posted and in general white runners receive slower times upon review.

One example. Texas WR Devin Duvernay was a track star so was expected to run fast. But he never cleared under 4.4 on either attempt and in fact his second run was something like a 4.44 or 4.46. Yet somehow his official run ended up at 4.39?

For years we here at CF have been trying to figure out these "strange" methods of determining the 40 yard dash times. The only thing I know for certain is that if it was timed like a sanctioned track and field meet then everything would be timed electronically and there would be absolutely no need whatsoever to have dick weeds like Casserly and his ilk hand timing anything.

Not saying all the white runners ultimately receive "slower" times due to some hanky-panky but hell both QBs mentioned below ( Patterson and McDonald) had their final times increased. I didn't see them pull that on the black runners as far as I can tell?

Trying to sift through this is like trying to navigate a sewer but a few white players were able to emerge. QB Justin Herbert ran a 4.68 40 and showed well here as did big armed Jacob Eason. Is Herbert actually the best QB in this draft? Burrows didn't work out at all. Shea Patterson who the media has dismissed ran a 4.71 despite a 4.67 on his second run. What happened to his 4.67?
Cole McDonald, someone Leonardfan has promoted who I have seen play but have no conclusive impression, ran the fastest QB time at 4.58 which was jumped up from the 4.54 that flashed during his run? He beat out media hero Jalen Hurts. Another thank God moment in a sea of misery.

Missed the entire TE proceedings so won't comment on them apart from the fact it looks like Cole Kmet from ND was solid. No white TE ran under 4.7 seconds though.

Kmet teammate WR Chris Finke, the lone honky WR invited ran a 4.57 40 which pretty much sealed his fate of not getting drafted. He did leap 40 inches but who the hell knows we may never see another white WR ever drafted again until the day we die. And I am not trying to be funny.

Tommorow is useless. I am not watching fat ass OL run the 40 yard dash and even the general media admits it is a useless event but it gives them the best chance to see their 10 yard splits which is more applicable. Maybe a white punter ( I see one did a good job on the bench press ) who decides to run the 40 could put up a good time but recently I noticed the punters haven't been running the 40 at the Black BJ Fest which will also feature naturally an all black running back core.

I will be able to watch the entire Saturday Combine which will feature the DL and LBs. Hopefully some white players run well ? Not anywhere near as excited as last year though.

I caught the running back 40's and the one good thing of not having a White fullback among the runners was not hearing Eisen mumble fullback like he just learned the word yesterday and hear a color commentator mention that he's a fullback and the 40 yard dash wasn't important as he won't run the ball much at the NFL level. Or on the rare occasion if a White half back is invited and he isn't a slam dunk to go high in the draft the endless on air debates about the runner being switched to fullback at the next level.

PS, Daniel Jeremiah actually stated about a 4.7X running back that he ran "angry" to explain away his blocking back time and there wasn't any debate about him being converted to fullback. This was similar to Elijah Holyfield last year.

 

[FootballDad]

Was just perusing Shadowlight's favorite online rag and came across this QB evaluation article. It's actually not terrible:

What the NFL Thinks of the Six First-Round QB Prospects

We asked four personnel execs, two offensive coordinators and a quarterbacks coach to break down each of the six first-round quarterback candidates. Plus, a ranking of the top candidates of the next coaching cycle, why Tom Brady's market might be more limited than you think, the draft's impact on free agency and the latest on the CBA.

ALBERT BREER

MAR 5, 2020


Looking for an overwhelming strength in Joe Burrow’s game? Look no further than his absolutely sparkling, jaw-dropping . . . lack of weaknesses. Or so say the guys paid to evaluate quarterbacks. These are the seven answers I got when I asked a group of four personnel execs, two offensive coordinators and a quarterbacks coach, coming off the combine: Is there a hole in Joe Burrow’s game?:

“He could clean his footwork and body mechanics up, I think he’d find more velocity there.”

“There’s no big hole. Nothing where you say, ‘Oh s---.’ He’s as polished as I’ve seen in a while.”

“He doesn’t have a great arm. … He’s not very big, doesn’t have a great body as far as thickness and bulk, so you’d worry some about durability. But they’re all small concerns.”

“Nothing glaring. People knock his arm, it’s not the strongest arm. But he has enough arm.”

“If you pick nits, he doesn’t have ideal arm talent. That’s the biggest one. I’m not too concerned about that.”

“Maybe you’d argue if you ask him to throw a traditional outside-the-numbers comeback off a seven-step drop, he wouldn’t be the best at it? It’s not a hole. It’s just not his strength.”

“No.”

And their answers illustrate why, seven weeks out, it seems almost like the reigning Heisman winner and national championship team QB is a lock to go first overall. He was, yes, spectacular in 2019. But the real key? He’s also safe in a class full of risks.

* * *

But we’re starting with the draft’s quarterback prospects. At this point, we’ve seen most of what we will from the college passers eligible for the 2020 draft. All the top guys have multiple seasons as starters on tape. All but two threw at the combine. All of them met with teams in Indy, and took physicals, and so more than 90% of the work in assessing these guys is done for teams.

Over the last 48 hours, I cobbled together a panel of the aforementioned seven—all of whom have already done the film work on the best quarterbacks in the class and watched the guys who did throw in Indy. Some of these guys interviewed them formally at the combine too, while others observed them on school visits in the fall.

My hope here is to give you a sober, thorough look at where the NFL is at on each of the players, with the thoughts of guys whose profession it is to ascertain which quarterbacks will make it and which ones won’t. Enjoy!

Joe Burrow, r-Sr., LSU

Years as starter: 2
Notable number: 60-6 TD/INT ratio in 2019.
Highest individual honor: 2019 Heisman Trophy
Team success: 2019 National Champion

What the evaluators say …

AFC coordinator 1: “He’s one of the most accurate quarterbacks I’ve ever graded. You can say he had great players around him, but he put the ball in places where his receivers never have to break stride. It’s a gift. His guys are always moving forward with the ball. And his pocket movement is really natural, how he slides, moves, he has natural feel for the pocket.”

AFC coordinator 2: “His decision-making, he just did a really good job of taking what was there. His arm strength, people talk about that, it’s plenty strong enough. Just watching him, he’s a complete guy that’s ready. I’m not sure he’s in the Andrew Luck category, but he’s pretty damn close. … [The one-year breakthrough] always does raise a red flag. However, the tape is so good, it’s hard to think it was a fluke, all the things he did well against that competition.”

NFC exec 1: “He does need help. He’s not a guy who’s going to lift a team on his shoulders where you say, ‘We’re not gonna be a contender if not for him.’ He needs a line, needs receivers. I heard he said he wants A.J. [Green] to stay. Well, he’s got A.J. and needs A.J. He’s not a guy who’ll do it himself. But there’s not a Luck in this draft.”

NFC exec 2: “He’s everything you think of in terms of a coach’s son. He runs practice like another coach, so he’ll come in with those intangibles. I think he’ll command respect early because of how he prepares. He was raised like that, competitive as hell, doesn’t like to miss a minute of practice, doesn’t want to waste a minute of practice. He’ll make every minute, every rep count. And it’d be one thing if he was at a Big Ten school, but to be from where he’s from, go there, best ball in the country, and be the Alpha in that program is impressive.”

Tua Tagovailoa, Jr., Alabama

Years as starter: 2
Notable number: 199.4 career passer rating
Highest individual honor: 2018 Heisman Trophy runner-up
Team success: 2017 National Champion

What the evaluators say …

NFC exec 3: “He’s a little more twitched up than Joe. He’s a good athlete. He’s also very accurate. He was really good over multiple seasons, so he got that over Burrow – really two full seasons at a high level. He’s got a good arm, maybe better than Burrow, still not great. He’s extremely instinctive. And he’s an outstanding leader, takes all the criticism, deflects all the praise. Can extend plays, very accurate. The negative is durability. I think he’s back there throwing 7-on-7 a lot, and there is pressure, you do see a little dropoff.”

AFC QBs coach: “He may have had similar numbers to Burrow if he hadn’t gotten hurt. He also has really good dudes around him, like Joe. But as a player, he’s really clean, really a smooth player—clean feet, clean delivery, he resets really well, gets in proper alignment for his throws after resetting. And he’s really good with his eyes, he can move a safety, look down a defender to throw over the defense.. The ball’s out quick. He has a nice, tight stroke, the accuracy’s really good, he plays with two hands on the ball in the pocket. I think he’s a pretty darn good player.”

NFC exec 4: “Accuracy, processing, getting rid of the ball quick, that’s all there. … [Durability] is a big concern. He doesn’t get out of trouble well. And when he does, he holds ball until the last second, and takes shots. Most shots he’s taking are because he’s waiting for the next progression to get open, and he trusts his line. In fact, on the play he got hurt, he should’ve gotten rid of the ball way sooner. He’s a competitor. So, it’s a strength, but it’s a weakness.”

AFC coordinator 1: “God, his quickness and his setup is pretty outstanding. The best word, and I don’t like it at all the time, is he’s pretty twitchy. His setup and delivery are very fast, but never out of control. He anticipates well, throws it accurate. He has great receivers and does the same thing Burrow does with that—he puts it in a spot where they can take it and take off, and allows them to use their pure talent. … He’s such a violent thrower, you wonder what the hip injury will do to that; that’s the question I’d have for him.”

Justin Herbert, Sr., Oregon

Years as starter: 4
Notable number: 10,541 career passing yards
Highest individual honor: 2017 First-Team Academic All-American
Team success: 2020 Rose Bowl champion

NFC exec 2: “He was my favorite guy from Day 1. Every test, he passed [in Indy]—6-6, 236, runs 4.6, big frame, huge arm, four-year career. You don’t have the concern there you had with Burrow about one-year production. Senior bowl MVP, Rose Bowl MVP, Pac-12 champion, smart as hell. He’s not the culture changer, fire-breather, but how many guys are now? In terms of a guy that checks every box, he’s got it. … You have to get him under center, that’ll be where his strength is. It took [Jared] Goff time; he’d never been in huddle, never called a play either. So there could be bumps, yeah. But he’s smart enough, athletic enough, has no hesitation to learn to play under center. I’m telling you, I can’t remember what his major was, but the kid’s like a scientist. He’s just very smart. Nothing football-wise is difficult for him.”

NFC exec 3: “I’m not a huge fan. In terms of create-a-player, that’s your guy. He’s a little bit like Brady Quinn, good and bad. The arm strength, athleticism, size, it’s how you’d draw them up. He did well at the end of the year, won the games at the end, and you love to see that. But in terms of being a natural thrower, he’s not natural, I thought he struggled at the Senior Bowl learning how to take a drop. He has things to improve. All the physical stuff is there, he’s just not a real natural thrower. And I haven’t seen the ‘it’ factor.”

AFC coordinator 1: “His tape is tough to watch. I’m not sure the offense fit his skillset. He should be good in the NFL playing under center off play-action and getting the ball down the field. He’s that type of player. I don’t think they did that much at Oregon, it didn’t feel like it ever fit his skillset. And in the same sense, there were throws you cringe at, like, ‘Come on, man.’ The tape’s not nearly as clean as the other two. But the other two are throwing to what’ll probably be a total of six or seven first-round receivers when all those guys come through. Those two are the best players on the best teams, with the best guys catching pass. You look at Oregon, you don’t see the same talent, especially in the guys catching passes.”

AFC coordinator 2: “I like him a lot, really smart. … Stuff that comes with new system, he can pick up quickly—that’s a strength. His arm is elite, up there at the top with anyone, maybe not [Aaron Rodgers], but can throw every ball, can go far hash to near sideline. I was impressed with his accuracy, how he got through progression, he’d get to no. 3, and rip it right on the facemask. And he has an ability to run better than most people think. His wiggle’s not great, but he can see the hole and chew up yards … The glaring thing: He’s never under center, so with his footwork, he does have tendency to be robotic, segmenting in his drop, but he can clean that up. He’s a quiet kid; he’ll have to overcome that.”

Jordan Love, r-Jr., Utah State

Years as starter: 3
Notable number: 32-6 TD/INT in 2018, 20-17 TD-INT in 2019
Highest individual honor: 2018 Second-Team All-Mountain West
Team success: 2018 New Mexico Bowl Champions

NFC Exec 4: “He’s highly talented, a prototype. I have serious concerns about his instincts, his processing ability. I’m not sure what the staff there was thinking. It’s the first time in my career as an evaluator where I’ve seen a coach that leaves, and a new staff comes in, and hires an OC, and allows the kid to keep same offense instead of putting in a different system without keeping any coaches. The OC was never comfortable calling plays in that system. … It was horrible, his season was horrible, and I’m having a hard time seeing whether it was the kid or the coaches deciding to go with the same system … the OC calling plays in a system he’s never run, with not one coach there that could teach the offense. It’s an incredibly hard thing. It’s asking, what do you believe?”

NFC Exec 1: “He’s a really difficult guy to do. A year ago, I liked him—quick release, strong arm, athletic. He’s a good kid—made a mistake late in year, but there’s not a problem with his character. But there are a lot of little things to playing better at the position. It’s decision-making, calls at the line, processing quicker, not forcing ball. There’s a lot of his game that needs to be cleaned up. He’s very talented. I wouldn’t trust him in Year 1. I wish he went back to develop it, because there’s no doubt he has talent. I’m not buying he’s a first-round pick.”

NFC Exec 2: “You are what you put on tape, and sometimes you have to overcome the coaching. If he’s that talented, he should make up for some of that—lots of successful QBs overcome poor coaching, and bad circumstances. … And to compare him to Mahomes, oh my God, it’s a disservice to the kid. I don’t understand where that came from. He’s a nice passer, a smooth athlete. Mahomes lit the world on fire. I never once thought that of Love. I was jumping out of seat watching Mahomes at Texas Tech.”

AFC QBs coach: “The big concern is the picks and it shows up in how he plays. The positives are there’s real arm talent, he can drive it, but he also turns the ball over way too much. The midrange stuff over the safety, he’ll stare down reads—just stares it down—and he relies on his arm too much. But if you can corral this kid, he has ability, he really does. He needs development. I think low-floor, high-ceiling, but what he shows on film, there are some things you can’t coach. He has that gunslinger mentality, makes off-platform throws, throws off his back foot. He’s got the arm talent to do it. He needs time and coaching and development.”

Jacob Eason, r-Jr., Washington

Years as starter: 2 (1 at Georgia)
Notable number: 3 rushing yards in 2019
Highest individual honor: 2015 Gatorade National High School Player of the Year
Team success: 2019 Las Vegas Bowl champion

NFC Exec 1: “Love the size, love the arm strength … [but] accuracy, ball placement, and his ability to get away from people is a problem. But he makes throws other guys can’t make. A lot of inconsistency, he’s another guy I’d have liked to have seen gone back to school. He’s big, strong, has the arm, so how does [Jake] Fromm beat him out? … He’s not as mobile, not as athletic as Herbert. But he has as good an arm, just on pure arm strength. Herbert has better feel and touch. This guy is fastballs all the time. … Yeah, he’s gotta grow up, has to become a pro, he’d be best coming in behind a guy. His work habits, his study habits have to improve. He’s a good kid, a smart enough kid, who had a great time in college.”

NFC Exec 4: “I’m not a big fan. I don’t think he has quarterback makeup. Look, he doesn’t process information, doesn’t go through his progressions well. A big-time arm talent, like the other two (Herbert/Love), but he’s third—behind Herbert and Love. He’ll make big throws. I just question the makeup: work ethic, study habits, leadership, partying too much. If he’s not the guy, I don’t know if he’ll work at it. He barely won the job this year. At the start of camp, he had to fight to be named starter, and half the team wanted the other guy. … He’ll get overdrafted.”

AFC QBs coach: “He looks and feels like the traditional pocket passer. He doesn’t have great feel, doesn’t have great movement. He’s got dead feet. But he can rip throws, he can drive that ball coming off the mound. Instead of pushing forward, he plays with a soft back foot—he goes backwards when he feels pressure, you’ll have to correct that, and part of it is probably that he feels like he can just rip the ball. … His most impressive plays are when the pocket’s clean. When he’s protected, he can do it. But to me, if you don’t have a strong feel, these types of guys, they show up great when you get them in shorts, in 7-on-7s, OTAs, they’ll throw it all over. Then you get them into preseason and you say, ‘he’s regressing.’ Well, no, he’s not, it’s a different game. … Several other guys have fluidity. It feels like he has a stiff game.”

Jake Fromm, Jr., Georgia

Years as starter: 3
Notable number: 78-18 TD-INT ratio, 42 career starts
Highest individual honor: 2017 SEC Freshman of the Year
Team success: Three-time SEC East champion, 2017 national runner-up

NFC Exec 3: “His combine wasn’t very good, but what you get is a great leader, he’s got all the characteristics off the field of a great quarterback. He’s a quick decision-maker, tough, accurate. He just doesn’t have the arm talent, he doesn’t have the lower-body or upper-body strength to make all the throws. If you combine Eason with him, you’d have the No. 1 pick. He’s a really good player, it’s just the size and arm talent holds him back. … There’s a ton to be said for beating out Eason and [Justin] Fields, even though he’s just not on the talent level of those guys. But he’d be a great backup for anyone. If he wants to, he’ll play in the league for 15 years.”

NFC Exec 4: “Beating out Eason and Fields matters to me. Those two were highly, highly recruited players. Jake Fromm outworked both of them, he could handle the volume of the offense, the players loved him—he’ll get along with anyone in any room. Go to the DB room, the receiver room, the offensive line room, it’s all the same, they love him. When I was up there the night before I came in on my two visits, at 9 o’clock, he was still in there. He’d tell you, I’ll stay there ’til they kick me out. … Probably as good a quarterback makeup as I’ve seen since Andrew Luck. … He’ll be somewhere between a really good backup and a good, average starter. He won’t get to you to the Super Bowl, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he winds up there somehow. I’d take him over some others. You know exactly what you’re getting.”

AFC Coordinator 1: “If you wanna bet on a guy, bet on him. He won’t let himself fail. He’s like a Case Keenum, a Colt McCoy, those guys that, at worst, are 12-year NFL backups. He has that makeup, where he’s damn near like a coach. He knows what to do, and guys gravitate to him. Kellen Moore was like that—Kellen was incredible at Boise, and he couldn’t get to the next level as a player, but was very solid NFL backup, and probably still could be.”

NFC Exec 2: “I could see him being the guy that has a nice year with talent around him, and then the next year he disappears. I could see that kind of career. He has what you always want—smart, tough, accurate—and all the intangibles you wish Eason had. But can he make the throws? If you’re Jon Gruden, and you have all that volume, he might appeal to you. … The behind-the-scenes stuff, work ethic, attitude, that’s gonna give him a 10-year career. Look at Chase Daniel, he won’t go away because of all those intangibles. And he’ll play well, in the right situation. But if he’s your starter, you’re trying to get better.”

The one other name that came up as I separated those six? Oklahoma’s Jalen Hurts. More than one of these guys mentioned how, despite having limited arm talent, he has a chip on his shoulder, and intangibles, and all of that could position him well to go to a place where the starter has a similar skill set—which would buy him time to continue the development he enjoyed last year playing for Lincoln Riley.

And all of these guys still have time to answer the questions, or cement the good feelings we laid out above. They still have their Pro Days, and 30 visits, and private workouts to.

So as always, stay tuned.

 

[Red Raider]

Not sure about the rest of his testing numbers but Dalton Schoen ran a 4.47 yesterday at his pro day.

 

[Leonardfan]

Was just perusing Shadowlight's favorite online rag and came across this QB evaluation article. It's actually not terrible:

What the NFL Thinks of the Six First-Round QB Prospects

We asked four personnel execs, two offensive coordinators and a quarterbacks coach to break down each of the six first-round quarterback candidates. Plus, a ranking of the top candidates of the next coaching cycle, why Tom Brady's market might be more limited than you think, the draft's impact on free agency and the latest on the CBA.

ALBERT BREER

MAR 5, 2020


Looking for an overwhelming strength in Joe Burrow’s game? Look no further than his absolutely sparkling, jaw-dropping . . . lack of weaknesses. Or so say the guys paid to evaluate quarterbacks. These are the seven answers I got when I asked a group of four personnel execs, two offensive coordinators and a quarterbacks coach, coming off the combine: Is there a hole in Joe Burrow’s game?:

“He could clean his footwork and body mechanics up, I think he’d find more velocity there.”

“There’s no big hole. Nothing where you say, ‘Oh s---.’ He’s as polished as I’ve seen in a while.”

“He doesn’t have a great arm. … He’s not very big, doesn’t have a great body as far as thickness and bulk, so you’d worry some about durability. But they’re all small concerns.”

“Nothing glaring. People knock his arm, it’s not the strongest arm. But he has enough arm.”

“If you pick nits, he doesn’t have ideal arm talent. That’s the biggest one. I’m not too concerned about that.”

“Maybe you’d argue if you ask him to throw a traditional outside-the-numbers comeback off a seven-step drop, he wouldn’t be the best at it? It’s not a hole. It’s just not his strength.”

“No.”

And their answers illustrate why, seven weeks out, it seems almost like the reigning Heisman winner and national championship team QB is a lock to go first overall. He was, yes, spectacular in 2019. But the real key? He’s also safe in a class full of risks.

* * *

But we’re starting with the draft’s quarterback prospects. At this point, we’ve seen most of what we will from the college passers eligible for the 2020 draft. All the top guys have multiple seasons as starters on tape. All but two threw at the combine. All of them met with teams in Indy, and took physicals, and so more than 90% of the work in assessing these guys is done for teams.

Over the last 48 hours, I cobbled together a panel of the aforementioned seven—all of whom have already done the film work on the best quarterbacks in the class and watched the guys who did throw in Indy. Some of these guys interviewed them formally at the combine too, while others observed them on school visits in the fall.

My hope here is to give you a sober, thorough look at where the NFL is at on each of the players, with the thoughts of guys whose profession it is to ascertain which quarterbacks will make it and which ones won’t. Enjoy!

Joe Burrow, r-Sr., LSU

Years as starter: 2
Notable number: 60-6 TD/INT ratio in 2019.
Highest individual honor: 2019 Heisman Trophy
Team success: 2019 National Champion

What the evaluators say …

AFC coordinator 1: “He’s one of the most accurate quarterbacks I’ve ever graded. You can say he had great players around him, but he put the ball in places where his receivers never have to break stride. It’s a gift. His guys are always moving forward with the ball. And his pocket movement is really natural, how he slides, moves, he has natural feel for the pocket.”

AFC coordinator 2: “His decision-making, he just did a really good job of taking what was there. His arm strength, people talk about that, it’s plenty strong enough. Just watching him, he’s a complete guy that’s ready. I’m not sure he’s in the Andrew Luck category, but he’s pretty damn close. … [The one-year breakthrough] always does raise a red flag. However, the tape is so good, it’s hard to think it was a fluke, all the things he did well against that competition.”

NFC exec 1: “He does need help. He’s not a guy who’s going to lift a team on his shoulders where you say, ‘We’re not gonna be a contender if not for him.’ He needs a line, needs receivers. I heard he said he wants A.J. [Green] to stay. Well, he’s got A.J. and needs A.J. He’s not a guy who’ll do it himself. But there’s not a Luck in this draft.”

NFC exec 2: “He’s everything you think of in terms of a coach’s son. He runs practice like another coach, so he’ll come in with those intangibles. I think he’ll command respect early because of how he prepares. He was raised like that, competitive as hell, doesn’t like to miss a minute of practice, doesn’t want to waste a minute of practice. He’ll make every minute, every rep count. And it’d be one thing if he was at a Big Ten school, but to be from where he’s from, go there, best ball in the country, and be the Alpha in that program is impressive.”

Tua Tagovailoa, Jr., Alabama

Years as starter: 2
Notable number: 199.4 career passer rating
Highest individual honor: 2018 Heisman Trophy runner-up
Team success: 2017 National Champion

What the evaluators say …

NFC exec 3: “He’s a little more twitched up than Joe. He’s a good athlete. He’s also very accurate. He was really good over multiple seasons, so he got that over Burrow – really two full seasons at a high level. He’s got a good arm, maybe better than Burrow, still not great. He’s extremely instinctive. And he’s an outstanding leader, takes all the criticism, deflects all the praise. Can extend plays, very accurate. The negative is durability. I think he’s back there throwing 7-on-7 a lot, and there is pressure, you do see a little dropoff.”

AFC QBs coach: “He may have had similar numbers to Burrow if he hadn’t gotten hurt. He also has really good dudes around him, like Joe. But as a player, he’s really clean, really a smooth player—clean feet, clean delivery, he resets really well, gets in proper alignment for his throws after resetting. And he’s really good with his eyes, he can move a safety, look down a defender to throw over the defense.. The ball’s out quick. He has a nice, tight stroke, the accuracy’s really good, he plays with two hands on the ball in the pocket. I think he’s a pretty darn good player.”

NFC exec 4: “Accuracy, processing, getting rid of the ball quick, that’s all there. … [Durability] is a big concern. He doesn’t get out of trouble well. And when he does, he holds ball until the last second, and takes shots. Most shots he’s taking are because he’s waiting for the next progression to get open, and he trusts his line. In fact, on the play he got hurt, he should’ve gotten rid of the ball way sooner. He’s a competitor. So, it’s a strength, but it’s a weakness.”

AFC coordinator 1: “God, his quickness and his setup is pretty outstanding. The best word, and I don’t like it at all the time, is he’s pretty twitchy. His setup and delivery are very fast, but never out of control. He anticipates well, throws it accurate. He has great receivers and does the same thing Burrow does with that—he puts it in a spot where they can take it and take off, and allows them to use their pure talent. … He’s such a violent thrower, you wonder what the hip injury will do to that; that’s the question I’d have for him.”

Justin Herbert, Sr., Oregon

Years as starter: 4
Notable number: 10,541 career passing yards
Highest individual honor: 2017 First-Team Academic All-American
Team success: 2020 Rose Bowl champion

NFC exec 2: “He was my favorite guy from Day 1. Every test, he passed [in Indy]—6-6, 236, runs 4.6, big frame, huge arm, four-year career. You don’t have the concern there you had with Burrow about one-year production. Senior bowl MVP, Rose Bowl MVP, Pac-12 champion, smart as hell. He’s not the culture changer, fire-breather, but how many guys are now? In terms of a guy that checks every box, he’s got it. … You have to get him under center, that’ll be where his strength is. It took [Jared] Goff time; he’d never been in huddle, never called a play either. So there could be bumps, yeah. But he’s smart enough, athletic enough, has no hesitation to learn to play under center. I’m telling you, I can’t remember what his major was, but the kid’s like a scientist. He’s just very smart. Nothing football-wise is difficult for him.”

NFC exec 3: “I’m not a huge fan. In terms of create-a-player, that’s your guy. He’s a little bit like Brady Quinn, good and bad. The arm strength, athleticism, size, it’s how you’d draw them up. He did well at the end of the year, won the games at the end, and you love to see that. But in terms of being a natural thrower, he’s not natural, I thought he struggled at the Senior Bowl learning how to take a drop. He has things to improve. All the physical stuff is there, he’s just not a real natural thrower. And I haven’t seen the ‘it’ factor.”

AFC coordinator 1: “His tape is tough to watch. I’m not sure the offense fit his skillset. He should be good in the NFL playing under center off play-action and getting the ball down the field. He’s that type of player. I don’t think they did that much at Oregon, it didn’t feel like it ever fit his skillset. And in the same sense, there were throws you cringe at, like, ‘Come on, man.’ The tape’s not nearly as clean as the other two. But the other two are throwing to what’ll probably be a total of six or seven first-round receivers when all those guys come through. Those two are the best players on the best teams, with the best guys catching pass. You look at Oregon, you don’t see the same talent, especially in the guys catching passes.”

AFC coordinator 2: “I like him a lot, really smart. … Stuff that comes with new system, he can pick up quickly—that’s a strength. His arm is elite, up there at the top with anyone, maybe not [Aaron Rodgers], but can throw every ball, can go far hash to near sideline. I was impressed with his accuracy, how he got through progression, he’d get to no. 3, and rip it right on the facemask. And he has an ability to run better than most people think. His wiggle’s not great, but he can see the hole and chew up yards … The glaring thing: He’s never under center, so with his footwork, he does have tendency to be robotic, segmenting in his drop, but he can clean that up. He’s a quiet kid; he’ll have to overcome that.”

Jordan Love, r-Jr., Utah State

Years as starter: 3
Notable number: 32-6 TD/INT in 2018, 20-17 TD-INT in 2019
Highest individual honor: 2018 Second-Team All-Mountain West
Team success: 2018 New Mexico Bowl Champions

NFC Exec 4: “He’s highly talented, a prototype. I have serious concerns about his instincts, his processing ability. I’m not sure what the staff there was thinking. It’s the first time in my career as an evaluator where I’ve seen a coach that leaves, and a new staff comes in, and hires an OC, and allows the kid to keep same offense instead of putting in a different system without keeping any coaches. The OC was never comfortable calling plays in that system. … It was horrible, his season was horrible, and I’m having a hard time seeing whether it was the kid or the coaches deciding to go with the same system … the OC calling plays in a system he’s never run, with not one coach there that could teach the offense. It’s an incredibly hard thing. It’s asking, what do you believe?”

NFC Exec 1: “He’s a really difficult guy to do. A year ago, I liked him—quick release, strong arm, athletic. He’s a good kid—made a mistake late in year, but there’s not a problem with his character. But there are a lot of little things to playing better at the position. It’s decision-making, calls at the line, processing quicker, not forcing ball. There’s a lot of his game that needs to be cleaned up. He’s very talented. I wouldn’t trust him in Year 1. I wish he went back to develop it, because there’s no doubt he has talent. I’m not buying he’s a first-round pick.”

NFC Exec 2: “You are what you put on tape, and sometimes you have to overcome the coaching. If he’s that talented, he should make up for some of that—lots of successful QBs overcome poor coaching, and bad circumstances. … And to compare him to Mahomes, oh my God, it’s a disservice to the kid. I don’t understand where that came from. He’s a nice passer, a smooth athlete. Mahomes lit the world on fire. I never once thought that of Love. I was jumping out of seat watching Mahomes at Texas Tech.”

AFC QBs coach: “The big concern is the picks and it shows up in how he plays. The positives are there’s real arm talent, he can drive it, but he also turns the ball over way too much. The midrange stuff over the safety, he’ll stare down reads—just stares it down—and he relies on his arm too much. But if you can corral this kid, he has ability, he really does. He needs development. I think low-floor, high-ceiling, but what he shows on film, there are some things you can’t coach. He has that gunslinger mentality, makes off-platform throws, throws off his back foot. He’s got the arm talent to do it. He needs time and coaching and development.”

Jacob Eason, r-Jr., Washington

Years as starter: 2 (1 at Georgia)
Notable number: 3 rushing yards in 2019
Highest individual honor: 2015 Gatorade National High School Player of the Year
Team success: 2019 Las Vegas Bowl champion

NFC Exec 1: “Love the size, love the arm strength … [but] accuracy, ball placement, and his ability to get away from people is a problem. But he makes throws other guys can’t make. A lot of inconsistency, he’s another guy I’d have liked to have seen gone back to school. He’s big, strong, has the arm, so how does [Jake] Fromm beat him out? … He’s not as mobile, not as athletic as Herbert. But he has as good an arm, just on pure arm strength. Herbert has better feel and touch. This guy is fastballs all the time. … Yeah, he’s gotta grow up, has to become a pro, he’d be best coming in behind a guy. His work habits, his study habits have to improve. He’s a good kid, a smart enough kid, who had a great time in college.”

NFC Exec 4: “I’m not a big fan. I don’t think he has quarterback makeup. Look, he doesn’t process information, doesn’t go through his progressions well. A big-time arm talent, like the other two (Herbert/Love), but he’s third—behind Herbert and Love. He’ll make big throws. I just question the makeup: work ethic, study habits, leadership, partying too much. If he’s not the guy, I don’t know if he’ll work at it. He barely won the job this year. At the start of camp, he had to fight to be named starter, and half the team wanted the other guy. … He’ll get overdrafted.”

AFC QBs coach: “He looks and feels like the traditional pocket passer. He doesn’t have great feel, doesn’t have great movement. He’s got dead feet. But he can rip throws, he can drive that ball coming off the mound. Instead of pushing forward, he plays with a soft back foot—he goes backwards when he feels pressure, you’ll have to correct that, and part of it is probably that he feels like he can just rip the ball. … His most impressive plays are when the pocket’s clean. When he’s protected, he can do it. But to me, if you don’t have a strong feel, these types of guys, they show up great when you get them in shorts, in 7-on-7s, OTAs, they’ll throw it all over. Then you get them into preseason and you say, ‘he’s regressing.’ Well, no, he’s not, it’s a different game. … Several other guys have fluidity. It feels like he has a stiff game.”

Jake Fromm, Jr., Georgia

Years as starter: 3
Notable number: 78-18 TD-INT ratio, 42 career starts
Highest individual honor: 2017 SEC Freshman of the Year
Team success: Three-time SEC East champion, 2017 national runner-up

NFC Exec 3: “His combine wasn’t very good, but what you get is a great leader, he’s got all the characteristics off the field of a great quarterback. He’s a quick decision-maker, tough, accurate. He just doesn’t have the arm talent, he doesn’t have the lower-body or upper-body strength to make all the throws. If you combine Eason with him, you’d have the No. 1 pick. He’s a really good player, it’s just the size and arm talent holds him back. … There’s a ton to be said for beating out Eason and [Justin] Fields, even though he’s just not on the talent level of those guys. But he’d be a great backup for anyone. If he wants to, he’ll play in the league for 15 years.”

NFC Exec 4: “Beating out Eason and Fields matters to me. Those two were highly, highly recruited players. Jake Fromm outworked both of them, he could handle the volume of the offense, the players loved him—he’ll get along with anyone in any room. Go to the DB room, the receiver room, the offensive line room, it’s all the same, they love him. When I was up there the night before I came in on my two visits, at 9 o’clock, he was still in there. He’d tell you, I’ll stay there ’til they kick me out. … Probably as good a quarterback makeup as I’ve seen since Andrew Luck. … He’ll be somewhere between a really good backup and a good, average starter. He won’t get to you to the Super Bowl, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he winds up there somehow. I’d take him over some others. You know exactly what you’re getting.”

AFC Coordinator 1: “If you wanna bet on a guy, bet on him. He won’t let himself fail. He’s like a Case Keenum, a Colt McCoy, those guys that, at worst, are 12-year NFL backups. He has that makeup, where he’s damn near like a coach. He knows what to do, and guys gravitate to him. Kellen Moore was like that—Kellen was incredible at Boise, and he couldn’t get to the next level as a player, but was very solid NFL backup, and probably still could be.”

NFC Exec 2: “I could see him being the guy that has a nice year with talent around him, and then the next year he disappears. I could see that kind of career. He has what you always want—smart, tough, accurate—and all the intangibles you wish Eason had. But can he make the throws? If you’re Jon Gruden, and you have all that volume, he might appeal to you. … The behind-the-scenes stuff, work ethic, attitude, that’s gonna give him a 10-year career. Look at Chase Daniel, he won’t go away because of all those intangibles. And he’ll play well, in the right situation. But if he’s your starter, you’re trying to get better.”

The one other name that came up as I separated those six? Oklahoma’s Jalen Hurts. More than one of these guys mentioned how, despite having limited arm talent, he has a chip on his shoulder, and intangibles, and all of that could position him well to go to a place where the starter has a similar skill set—which would buy him time to continue the development he enjoyed last year playing for Lincoln Riley.

And all of these guys still have time to answer the questions, or cement the good feelings we laid out above. They still have their Pro Days, and 30 visits, and private workouts to.

So as always, stay tuned.

Nice to see some water poured on the Jordan Love hype. I actually agree with most of what was said for every player. I especially think the way Fromm is held in such high regard is interesting.

 

[Leonardfan]

Garrett Marino -- Defensive Linemen

Height: 6’1.5”

Weight: 288

Bench press: 41

Vertical jump: 27.5”

Broad jump: 8.5”

40-yard dash: 5.01

Notes: Marino’s 41 reps were the most of any defensive lineman that attended the NFL Combine and just shy of this year’s top mark (44).

 

[Bucky]

Garrett Marino -- Defensive Linemen

Height: 6’1.5”

Weight: 288

Bench press: 41

Vertical jump: 27.5”

Broad jump: 8.5”

40-yard dash: 5.01

Notes: Marino’s 41 reps were the most of any defensive lineman that attended the NFL Combine and just shy of this year’s top mark (44).

Damn what a beast! Huge Combine snub, be cool to see him still get drafted! Strong and can move.

 

[Bucky]

Not sure about the rest of his testing numbers but Dalton Schoen ran a 4.47 yesterday at his pro day.

Excellent time for Schoen. We all knew he had wheels with that huge TD against Texas few years back. Had what a 17ypc career avg? Always liked his game at KSU poor man's Jordy.

 

[Red Raider]

Here’s how the two Auburn receivers did.
Will Hastings (5’10” 175lbs) 33” vertical, 4.50 40

Sal Cannella (6’5” 242lbs) 33 1/2” vertical, 4.73 40

Looks like Cannella is attempting to make it as a tight end, smart move by him. He has the high point ability and the speed for a tight end, he just needs to become a sound blocker.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lionsw...cial-interest-in-auburn-wr-will-hastings/amp/

 

[Leonardfan]

Damn what a beast! Huge Combine snub, be cool to see him still get drafted! Strong and can move.

Sounds like another “muscle shark” (remember that one @Bucky ). But yea Marino had beastly workout numbers and would be a great fit as a 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE.