2020 NFL Draft

[Shadowlight]

Just maybe I am being churlish or petty or displaying a full blown case of sour grapes as this nearly all black Combine brigade grinds on as the media drools all over itself. Each passing year it gets more difficult to swallow. But as someone who was somewhat a serious weightlifter for six years or so when I was much younger ( these days I toss around a light dumbbell every so often ha) I can't help but think that a lot of these so called "great" black athletes are on some juice.

I didn't do anything special back then but because I inherited a wiry muscular frame from my dad I was usually the most defined guy in the weight room. Hell it would only take a few curls for my muscles to start popping and everyone else was envious and wanted to know my secret. Ha. I eventually could lift double my weight in the bench which was a sign you "made it" but while I looked great and strong I wasn't really all that strong. It was a fake strong as my core strength was lacking. Hell for all my weight room feats I couldn't clock a golf drive further than 220 yards. Couldn't launch a softball worth crap. Punch and Judy hitter on my company softball team. I guess the main point of the lifting was to look good for the chicks whose kidding who. Ha.

But hanging around a weight room like I did you see all sorts of different builds and towards the end of my lifting days I started noticing the body builder guys. These dudes were on the juice and they had that extra Arnold S definition. It was very easy to spot the guys who were taking steroids and for the first time I saw guys who were better defined than me.

I am here to tell you these black dudes we see scampering across the TV screen seem to me to be on something. Whether the NFL is deliberately overlooking it in their quest to blacken up the sport beyond recognition is a good question? I know the NFL drug policies are conveniently the weakest among most major sports. Tennis, a sport that requires less strength but is also a hell of a lot whiter has a much stricter drug policy than the NFL. Go figure?

That said we are told in the NFL they "test" for performance enhancing drugs so it is also possible like the Latinos in baseball these athletes have found clever ways to beat the tests.

But the bottom line is based on my experience around weight rooms these builds I am seeing do not look to be the result of natural weight lifting or new wave aerobic exercises. Too many of these black dudes look to have unnatural bodies with their exaggerated comic book hero builds and fast running times. I smell a big giant rat. Keep in mind these black athletes are around 20 years old yet they have the muscle definition of guys who have been training as body builders for years! You know the type. The body builder ads that were plastered in the back of comic books. The old "Charles Atlas" build! Guys like Joe Weider!

There has been much discussion and deliberation over the years when it comes to juicing in track and field sprinting and while questions loom most of the time things are pushed aside in a haze as most but not all of the black sprinters are deemed "clean."

Again maybe it is just sour grapes on my part but I swear looking at these black dudes every year with their exaggerated muscular builds makes me suspicious. Damn suspicious!

 

[Leonardfan]

This is the first combine I have not watched in probably 15 years. I don’t miss it to be honest - the recycled cliches, the hype for guys who will bust, the overly critical analysis of white athletes - it’s all the same.

I did watch Herbert’s workout on mute on youtube - he looked really good and it’s interesting with such a strong dominant combine performance and a very good collegiate career I still see more criticism of him than I do of Jordan Love - further proof of an agenda against white qbs. I want to see how the other white qbs fared in the throwing drills. Cole McDonald being the most athletic qb at the combine was a nice little win. James Morgan supposedly threw well too.

I’ve been checking out message boards, reading updates and I find it funny how the excuses roll in when a black athlete does not run a fast 40...it’s like they go into panic mode.

The only physical difference outside of skin color is that blacks have longer arms so this gets played up so much. I do think there are some baselines that positions should meet but fawning over sumos with long arms is beyond bizarre because we are told when sumos aren’t cranking out the most reps in the bench press its due to having longer arms. Meanwhile when someone does put up a ton of reps but are not part of the magical race it’s written off as due to having short arms - to me that would indicate better strength and conditioning. This draft is godawful on the oline. I predict a lot of sumo busts and wr busts - the two “deepest” positions in the draft.

 

[dwid]

This is the first combine I have not watched in probably 15 years. I don’t miss it to be honest - the recycled cliches, the hype for guys who will bust, the overly critical analysis of white athletes - it’s all the same.

I did watch Herbert’s workout on mute on youtube - he looked really good and it’s interesting with such a strong dominant combine performance and a very good collegiate career I still see more criticism of him than I do of Jordan Love - further proof of an agenda against white qbs. I want to see how the other white qbs fared in the throwing drills. Cole McDonald being the most athletic qb at the combine was a nice little win. James Morgan supposedly threw well too.

I’ve been checking out message boards, reading updates and I find it funny how the excuses roll in when a black athlete does not run a fast 40...it’s like they go into panic mode.

The only physical difference outside of skin color is that blacks have longer arms so this gets played up so much. I do think there are some baselines that positions should meet but fawning over sumos with long arms is beyond bizarre because we are told when sumos aren’t cranking out the most reps in the bench press its due to having longer arms. Meanwhile when someone does put up a ton of reps but are not part of the magical race it’s written off as due to having short arms - to me that would indicate better strength and conditioning. I predict a lot of sumo busts and wr busts - the two “deepest” positions in the draft.

It's like that every year lol. People keep saying I'm racist on YouTube for saying Chris Finke and Ryan Skibinski are top 10 prospects at WR so I looked up previous years. Most years if you put up a few 300 yard seasons, then you rank in the top 10 of your draft class. I think if they actually get utilized correctly they could exceed that easily so saying top 10 isn't a stretch at all.

For instance,Will Fuller is technically is in the top 5 in his draft class and he's never gotten more than 600 yards in a season. Sterling Shephard is also a top 5 guy from his draft class. Same thing with the year before. 3 guys in the top 10 taken had 1k seasons, and only one of those 3 eclipsed 1k twice (Amari Cooper had 2 1k seasons out of 5).

There's only a couple of years where you can't say that, like 2014 and 2004. So dozens of guys every year and only 2 out of 20 years there was a good class of wideouts , but apparently I'm the one who needs to be questioned for my picks when I had Hartline as a top 10 wr in 2009, technically he's a top 5 from that class. He had the same amount of 1k seasons as Maclin and Crabtree (who was given way more leeway) . The best receiver in the class was Edelman, a college qb taken in the 7th. Eric Decker is someone I also had in top 10 and he was a top 5 wr from his draft.

Yes I've had other guys that didn't pan out listed as top 10 but many weren't given fair chances but let's play their game and say they suck, im still predicting at a better rate than many "experts". I had Rudolph, Pitta, Juszczyk as top 5 at their positions, and they are for their draft class. Had Harrison Smith as THE best safety and also hit on that.

 

[dwid]

Thanks for the breakdown @Shadowlight . To me Finke ran what I expected, but jumped better than I thought. Solid showing for him assuming his agility timing was pretty good. His 4.57 stacks up well to The Wisconsin WR invited in Cephus who clocked a painfully slow 4.73..

Also @Leonardfan was spot on about McDonald. Didn't realize he had jets like that.

I was expecting him to run a high 4.4. I just read he had a hamstring injury that he's dealing with from the East West Shrine game which is why he didn't participate in any drills outside the 40 and jump. I'm thinking maybe this could have affected him a little bit.

 

[Shadowlight]

This is a late breaking story and I hate to diss the guy but GD under no circumstances should a white skill player like Finke run a 40 yard dash at the combine when dealing with an injury that could negatively affect your time. Who the hell is his agent? Are they idiots? The reporting come in said in order for Finke to get drafted he needs a good 40 time. Logic dictates you skip the 40 and wait to run it when fully healed.

I know that being invited he probably thought it best he perform some drills but he avoided the change of direction drills because of the injury and it does not take a genius to understand a bad hammy will likely slow down your 40 yard dash.

Very bad decision making here. He needs to do two things. Make it public that he wasn't 100% to run. And heal up and run a properly fast 40 time at the ND pro day. Even if he does kill it on his pro day it might be too late to convince the scouts. They have that 4.57 time emblazoned on their minds.

 

[Shadowlight]

I was expecting him to run a high 4.4.

So was I!!!

Want to add Penn State media hero WR KJ Hamler didn't run the 40 because of a hammy issue. He knew better.

 

[Leonardfan]

Its good to see a little conversation here in the draft thread during the combine but it’s sad to see that it’s died down so much. There used to be a lot more members posting about the combine as it was going on.

I hope the LBs and DL all perform well today. Unfortunately for white defensive players especially LBs they have to run solid 40s to get much consideration as draftable prospects or they will be deemed as being poor in pass coverage and not suitable for the “modern” NFL.

 

[La France Blanche]

Whenever a position is proclaimed to be "deep" by the so-called mainstream sports media it's always blatantly obvious castespeak for super dark (more so than usual). There have been supposed "deepest ever" tight end classes, heavily black, which unsurprisingly turned out to be full of busts. TE will always be dominated by the White man.

 

[Bucky]

Whenever a position is proclaimed to be "deep" by the so-called mainstream sports media it's always blatantly obvious castespeak for super dark (more so than usual). There have been supposed "deepest ever" tight end classes, heavily black, which unsurprisingly turned out to be full of busts. TE will always be dominated by the White man.

Yup just like this TE class is getting labeled weak aka no black Superheroes to carry it. (Besides the Nigerian Mulatto from Mizzou)

 

[Leonardfan]

Willekes with a 4.93 - should be interesting to see what his 10 second split was. Hopefully he is still drafted in the 4th/5th round as he is more than capable of being disruptive in the passing and running games.

 

[Bucky]

Willekes with a 4.93 - should be interesting to see what his 10 second split was. Hopefully he is still drafted in the 4th/5th round as he is more than capable of being disruptive in the passing and running games.

Looks like they dropped it to 4.88. He's a true football player that doesn't excel in the Underwear Olympics. Let's hope he still gets drafted and doesn't have to go Marcus Rush route..

32 Bench Reps for Willekes though!

Tuszka with a 4.79

 

[Leonardfan]

Looks like they dropped it to 4.88. He's a true football player that doesn't excel in the Underwear Olympics. Let's hope he still gets drafted and doesn't have to go Marcus Rush route..

32 Bench Reps for Willekes though!

Tuszka with a 4.79

Officially a 4.87 (10 yd split was 1.69 on the unofficial time so should be slightly improved) - 32 reps and a solid vert - 32.5 and broad jump of 119 - should show that he is explosive and can be a solid pass rusher. I hope he does not end up like Marcus Rush - dominating the preseason only to be cut and screwed over by several different teams.

 

[Leonardfan]

Joe Bachie with a 4.67 - should answer questions about his all around abilities when it comes to the caste stooges and dwfs. He also stated that his suspension was due to an over the counter supplement. Decent article in which he provides an explanation as well as some mentions of the caste hurdles he faced.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...oe-bachie-michigan-state-football/4892115002/

 

[Shadowlight]

There were no caste busters this year. Kind of a hum drum depressing step backwards overall but that was expected. The D line was covered above.

Along with the very solid Bachie ( see above) other linebacker numbers of interest. David Woodward ran a 4.79 which surprised me. Thought he would run faster then again his "mysterious" injury was never explained. Should still get drafted though.

Dante Olson had a 42 inch vertical but didn't run well (4.87).

Logan Wilson at 4.63.

Two edge players Carter Coughlan ( MN) and Casey Toohill ( Stanford) displayed excellent athleticism. Coughlin ran a 4.57 and leapt 36 inches. Toohill ran a 4.62 and had an impressive 39 inch vertical. Kind of like Kyler Fackrell types and I think they boosted their stock,

MLB Evan Weaver ran a 4.76 which was expected. More of an instinct player.

 

[Leonardfan]

So Evan Weaver - one of the most productive LBs in college over the past few years runs a .10 of a second less than Baun - they have similar verticals and Weaver a better broad jump but Baun is viewed as the third best LB in the class and Weaver has essentially been written off


Wisconsin LB Zack Baun ran the 40-yard dash in 4.65 seconds at the NFL Scouting Combine.
Baun (6'2/238) was less than impressive in his jumps (32.5 inches vertically, 115 inches broad) but that 40-yard dash time was solidly where it needed to be, if unspectacular. The Athletic's Dane Brugler ranks Baun as the No. 3 linebacker in the class, with Brugler a fan of Baun's combination of base athleticism, never-say-die motor and general instincts/football IQ.


Cal LB Evan Weaver ran the 40-yard dash in 4.76 seconds at the NFL Scouting Combine.
Weaver (6'2/237) really could have used a strong showing at the combine, as athleticism questions are a real bugaboo in his evaluation. Alas, that did not come to pass on Saturday. Weaver not only ran a sluggish 40-yard dash, but additionally struggled to differentiate himself with his jumps, managing modest marks of 32 inches (vertical) and 117 inches (broad). There is no questioning the production Weaver put up at Cal, but as much as we love his more intangible qualities (leadership, motor, smarts, etc), his lack of athleticism leaves him only a narrow path to finding NFL success. Not impossible that he can walk that path, but again, it's very narrow.

 

[Bucky]

Really Good times from Bachie,Wilson, Coughlin, and Toohill!

Don't know much about Olsen, not a good 40 but 42Inch vert is insane. Is he an OLB?

I thought Woodward and Weaver would test better athletically, but you can't test instincts and both of those guys can be tackling machines if allowed. Still a 4.79 and 4.76 should not be death sentence times for LBs with insane productivity.

Good point about Weaver, basically only a step behind Baun in the 40.

Assuming Muse turned down working with the LBs today?

 

[Leonardfan]

Really Good times from Bachie,Wilson, Coughlin, and Toohill!

Don't know much about Olsen, not a good 40 but 42Inch vert is insane. Is he an OLB?

I thought Woodward and Weaver would test better athletically, but you can't test instincts and both of those guys can be tackling machines if allowed. Still a 4.79 and 4.76 should not be death sentence times for LBs with insane productivity.

Good point about Weaver, basically only a step behind Baun in the 40.

Assuming Muse turned down working with the LBs today?

I think Muse will work out with the DBs but they will just put him through LB drills tomorrow. Hopefully he tests out well, would really like to see him in the NFL as a DB.

I think Garret and Olson will probably be viewed as undraftable after their 40 times.

Bachie, Wilson, Coughlin, Toohill, Woodward and Weaver should all get drafted. Toohill has had a strong pre draft process as has Wilson.

As for d-line - the few that were invited fared pretty well. I would guess Lynch, Windsor, Willekes and Tuzka had a strong enough combine to be drafted. In this terrible draft if we get 10+ white defenders drafted I would consider that the "glass half full" perspective. It's a shame Jordan Fehr from App St was not invited as he would of been a potential 4.4/4.5 LB as well.

 

[Red Raider]

I was surprised at how slow Cale Garrett ran (4.92, worst among LB) but he did show impressive agility/athleticism with a 6.91 3 cone (2nd among LB), top 10 LB broad jump (10’4”), 4.13 20 yard shuttle (1st among LB). However, I think a lot of teams will stay away do to his 40 time. Whoever gets him will get an athletic albeit slow middle linebacker who can contribute on special teams immediately while he learns how to be an NFL LB.

Honestly it was not a very great combine for our guys overall. Luckily this will probably be the worst one we see for a while, it would be hard to have a worse draft than this year. Looking forward to seeing who the 2021 prospects are.

 

[Leonardfan]

I was surprised at how slow Cale Garrett ran (4.92, worst among LB) but he did show impressive agility/athleticism with a 6.91 3 cone (2nd among LB), top 10 LB broad jump (10’4”), 4.13 20 yard shuttle (1st among LB). However, I think a lot of teams will stay away do to his 40 time. Whoever gets him will get an athletic albeit slow middle linebacker who can contribute on special teams immediately while he learns how to be an NFL LB.

Honestly it was not a very great combine for our guys overall. Luckily this will probably be the worst one we see for a while, it would be hard to have a worse draft than this year. Looking forward to seeing who the 2021 prospects are.

I agree. I don't know how much better next year will be. The o-line is probably the most sumo is has ever been at OT, OG and even Center.

 

[La France Blanche]

At this point it's looking like this draft will be just barely better than the nightmare of 2015.

 

[Bucky]

Would have been great to see Fehr there no doubt.

Garrett has good tape and agility. Let's not forget the legendary Vontaze Burfict and his 5 second 40. Still turned out to be a decent LB despite all his issues.

Here's to hoping Muse goes sub 4.5 tomorrow!

 

[Carolina Speed]

Here's to hoping Muse goes sub 4.5 tomorrow!

I'm hoping he breaks 4.6, but wont' be surprised if he runs a high 4.6.
To say that I'm a little concerned about Muse is an understatement.
I can't find a combine time or any other official 40 time for Muse anywhere. I watched Muse live from about the time he was 13-14 years old. He and my son played on the same travel baseball team for a year or so. He was a huge kid for his age, but wasn't all that fast. In fact, he wasn't in the top 2 on the baseball team speed wise. He was a pretty good player, but wasn't as serious about football as he was baseball. (At the time). I never saw him at any football combines then or since. (I've seen Berrios and Switzer). That's why I'm a little concerned. Participating in combines helps and gives you confidence and experience. Also, Muse was a one of those kids that was held back a year. So, not only was he big, he was a little older than the kids in his grade, making him more intimidating. So, being big and athletic, why would you hold your son back a year?
I hope he's been training hard for this, because it could make or break him as far as the draft is concerned. He's already on the bubble as far as some are concerned. He needs a really good combine to get drafted.
All that said, he's a young man that plays better than his speed. Hopefully, a team will understand that if he has a sub-par combine.
Here's to hoping he does well!!

 

[Shadowlight]

During the summer of 2017 Tanner Muse was timed in the 40 at 4.36. Now that was hand timed and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

The media has been blasting him regarding his "lack of speed" and I know I speak for everyone here hoping Tanner shoves it up their noses and runs a good time. A 4.6 40 would hurt his draft status.

Officially a 4.87 (10 yd split was 1.69

For defensive linemen the only important speed number is the 10 yard split. The 40 is useless. As you can see above Kenny Willekes at 1.69 is very good. Derrek Tuszka also recorded a 1.69 split. Add in their awesome on field production you have two no brainers when it comes to the draft.

Compare those splits with two top tier NFL all stars. Joey Bosa ran a 1.68 split and Nick Bosa ran a 1.65. Anything under 1.7 is like a wide receiver running under 4.5 seconds in the 40 yard dash. So a 1.69 split is like a 4.49 40 yard dash for defensive linemen roughly speaking.

Willekes and Tuszka also were in the upper half of other skill events like the vertical etc. But the bottom line is those 10 yard splits suggest they have the requisite quickness and burst to cause havoc in the NFL.

 

[Carolina Speed]

During the summer of 2017 Tanner Muse was timed in the 40 at 4.36. Now that was hand timed and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

The media has been blasting him regarding his "lack of speed" and I know I speak for everyone here hoping Tanner shoves it up their noses and runs a good time. A 4.6 40 would hurt his draft status.

We had people hand timing HS kids at 4.3 in my area. One school had 3-4 kids on the same HS team run a hand timed 4.3. However, when they got to a laser timed combine, they ran 4.8-4.9. Very few, very few people on the planet run a 4.3 much less 3 in one HS.
Generally one doesn't go from 4.9/5.0 speed down to 4.3 from age 14 to 18. Most kids are showing elite speed, 4.5/4.6 by 12, 13, 14 range.
As I said there's no OFFICIAL time for Muse anywhere. I'm concerned for lack combine participation.
Again, I hope he's been working hard to get his time down.
And again. I hope he does well! Hoping he breaks 4.6.
Please post his 40 time as soon as you know.
Thanks

 

[dwid]

Doesn't look good for Muse at DB

"There is some love out there for him as a cover linebacker. I could see him going late in the draft but his safety days are over." -- Director of scouting for NFC team

Al of the draft analysis seems to say the same stuff, that he will change positions