2013 Hall of Fame results

[white is right]

Well the high priest let nobody in today. It looks like Biggio, and Morris were the two highest vote totals. Among the PED users only Clemens and Bonds have a realistic chance of being elected by the voters down the road. The rest will have to have friends on the veterans committee. Morris only has 1 year of eligibility left and 2014 has locks in Maddux and Glavine as first time nominees. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8828339/no-players-elected-baseball-hall-fame-writers

 

[Don Wassall]

Biggio (68.2%) was a borderline first time entrant. I'd like to see him and Bagwell (59.6% his first time eligible) get in next year, would be cool to see the long-time teammates inducted at the same time.

I'm pleasantly surprised Bonds (36.2%), Sosa (12.9%) and Palmeiro (8.8%) were rejected as decisively as they were. Schilling only drew 38.8% his first time eligible, which is fine with me as I've always found him to be the rare over-rated White athlete.

Piazza received 57.8% his first time so he should get in within a few years. Clemens slightly outdrew Bonds at 37.6%, but he deserves induction, especially in lieu of being vindicated of steroids usage, but I doubt he'll ever get in because he's so hated by the media for his "arrogance."

Biggio, Bagwell and Piazza should get in at some point, maybe also Raines and Lee Smith due to sentimentality as their years of eligibility begin to shrink. Jack Morris fell short, which like Schilling doesn't bother me; he was a very good pitcher but a little short of being a Hall of Famer.

Overall this year's much anticipated vote turned out to be anti-climactic, but I'm happy Pumpkinhead, Sosa and Palmeiro were given the Mark McGwire treatment by the voters.

 

[white is right]

Biggio (68.2%) was a borderline first time entrant. I'd like to see him and Bagwell (59.6% his first time eligible) get in next year, would be cool to see the long-time teammates inducted at the same time.

I'm pleasantly surprised Bonds (36.2%), Sosa (12.9%) and Palmeiro (8.8%) were rejected as decisively as they were. Schilling only drew 38.8% his first time eligible, which is fine with me as I've always found him to be the rare over-rated White athlete.

Piazza received 57.8% his first time so he should get in within a few years. Clemens slightly outdrew Bonds at 37.6%, but he deserves induction, especially in lieu of being vindicated of steroids usage, but I doubt he'll ever get in because he's so hated by the media for his "arrogance."

Biggio, Bagwell and Piazza should get in at some point, maybe also Raines and Lee Smith due to sentimentality as their years of eligibility begin to shrink. Jack Morris fell short, which like Schilling doesn't bother me; he was a very good pitcher but a little short of being a Hall of Famer.

Overall this year's much anticipated vote turned out to be anti-climactic, but I'm happy Pumpkinhead, Sosa and Palmeiro were given the Mark McGwire treatment by the voters.

This story summarizes my view on the voting pattern of the writers...http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_/id/8826383/what-mlb-hall-fame-be

 

[Don Wassall]

Stark raises many good points. The owners haven't been punished, Selig hasn't been disgraced, the record books haven't been altered, only individual players are being shamed for doing what management encouraged them to do to put fans in the stands, or at the least turned a knowing blind eye to it. If their career records and individual season marks are allowed to stand, then they should be in the Hall. And so should Pete Rose.

 

[Leonardfan]

I wish Biggio would have made it. He deserved it - really remarkable career - played catcher, 2B and OF at a high level. In the era of steroids I think its safe to say he was a clean player and a damn good one as well.

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

I was shocked at the results and also quite happy with them. I expected pumpkinhead to get in since all you hear from the "experts" is that he was the greatest player ever even before he started taking roids (as though they know when he started taking roids)

I agree Biggio and piazza should get in. I'd vote for Bagwell if he had played a premium position, but i'd say he just fell short since he was a 1B.

Maddux is a lock.

Saves have to be the cheapest stat in all of baseball, so I could never vote for Lee Smith. And even though he's a *****, i'd give Raines some serious consideration.

I also agree on Morris - he was good, but not good enough. I kind of feel the same way about Glavine to be honest even though i would bet he makes it in on the first ballot. Schilling had some great years, but just going off memory i didnt' think his lifetime stats were that great.

I hope the roid users, white or black, never get in.

 

[Tannehill17]

I was always disappointed that Dale Murphy never got more consideration as this was his last year of eligibility. I guess maybe because his production dropped off later in his career but during the 1980's he was just as good as anyone in baseball. He just had the misfortune of playing on some really bad Braves teams. If a marginal player like Jim Rice could get, there is certainly room for the 'Murph.

 

[Freethinker]

Good comments guys. The buzz around NYC is that Mike Piazza didn't get any love from the voters and I tend to agree. Piazza retired as the greatest offensive catcher in history. His defensive short comings were well documented but what other offensive force at a premium position did not get in first ballot? Is there a chance that Piazza also got dragged down in the steroid mess? I've never heard an accusation leveled against him but it seems that whole era may collectively catch some flack come voting time.

I have no problem with Bags and Baggio falling short as I've always seen them as Hall guys but not 1st ballot. Mike Piazza should have been the class of 2013!

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

I was always disappointed that Dale Murphy never got more consideration as this was his last year of eligibility. I guess maybe because his production dropped off later in his career but during the 1980's he was just as good as anyone in baseball. He just had the misfortune of playing on some really bad Braves teams. If a marginal player like Jim Rice could get, there is certainly room for the 'Murph.

I agree 100% on Murph. He deserved it. Played C and CF and was the best player of his day. Nobody was hitting HRs in the 80s.

I still remember the agonizingly boring Braves announcers from the 80s saying in the most monotone voice "another home run for dale murphy. way to go dale."

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

Blyleven was an all time great white player that never got the true credit he deserved. It took him way too long to get into the Hall. 5th all time in strikeouts and 9th all time in shutouts, yet he was ignored because he didn't play for New York. It would always rub me the wrong way how the writers came up with excuses to not vote for him.

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

Good comments guys. The buzz around NYC is that Mike Piazza didn't get any love from the voters and I tend to agree. Piazza retired as the greatest offensive catcher in history. His defensive short comings were well documented but what other offensive force at a premium position did not get in first ballot? Is there a chance that Piazza also got dragged down in the steroid mess? I've never heard an accusation leveled against him but it seems that whole era may collectively catch some flack come voting time.

I have no problem with Bags and Baggio falling short as I've always seen them as Hall guys but not 1st ballot. Mike Piazza should have been the class of 2013!

Defense is overrated IMO except at SS and CF

 

[Don Wassall]

Just about every year in the Hall of Fame voting thread I lament how little support Dale Murphy has gotten through the years. He was a five tool player and though a little weak in the batting average department, he was the best all-around player in the National League in the 1980s. At the very least he should have had vote support equal to that of Jack Morris and Tim Raines, i.e. borderline Hall of Famer.

 

[white is right]

Just about every year in the Hall of Fame voting thread I lament how little support Dale Murphy has gotten through the years. He was a five tool player and though a little weak in the batting average department, he was the best all-around player in the National League in the 1980s. At the very least he should have had vote support equal to that of Jack Morris and Tim Raines, i.e. borderline Hall of Famer.

The hall doesn't respect defense for outfielders that aren't centerfielders, first basemen and third basemen need to be spectacular. If gold gloves were respected Dewey Evans would have made the hall instead of being elminated on his first ballot. It's a shame but he was a better overall outfielder than Jim Rice.

 

[white is right]

I was shocked at the results and also quite happy with them. I expected pumpkinhead to get in since all you hear from the "experts" is that he was the greatest player ever even before he started taking roids (as though they know when he started taking roids)

I agree Biggio and piazza should get in. I'd vote for Bagwell if he had played a premium position, but i'd say he just fell short since he was a 1B.

Maddux is a lock.

Saves have to be the cheapest stat in all of baseball, so I could never vote for Lee Smith. And even though he's a *****, i'd give Raines some serious consideration.

I also agree on Morris - he was good, but not good enough. I kind of feel the same way about Glavine to be honest even though i would bet he makes it in on the first ballot. Schilling had some great years, but just going off memory i didnt' think his lifetime stats were that great.

I hope the roid users, white or black, never get in.

I disagree on Morris he was too clutch and if Schilling gets in then Morris must get in. Normally when guys are this close with a year to go they make it, but Morris will be a 4th choice at best as Maddux, Glavine and Biggio should make it next year. I think only once has 4 players made the hall in the same year. If he is very close he should eventually make it on the seniors committee. Ps if Goose Gossage is on the committee Sammy Sosa will need to do a complete Michael Jackson make over as he is a vocal protestor against any roid user ever making the hall.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

I agree 100% on Murph. He deserved it. Played C and CF and was the best player of his day. Nobody was hitting HRs in the 80s.

I still remember the agonizingly boring Braves announcers from the 80s saying in the most monotone voice "another home run for dale murphy. way to go dale."

Ditto here. Growing up, Murph was my favorite player (he still is towards the top). It's one of the biggest travesties in MLB history that he's not in Cooperstown. :frusty:

• 7× All-Star selection (1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987)
• 5× Gold Glove Award winner (1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986)
• 4× Silver Slugger Award winner (1982, 1983, 1984, 1985)
• 2× NL MVP (1982, 1983)
• 1988 Roberto Clemente Award
• 1985 Lou Gehrig Memorial Award

 

[Hawk]

Good comments guys. The buzz around NYC is that Mike Piazza didn't get any love from the voters and I tend to agree. Piazza retired as the greatest offensive catcher in history. His defensive short comings were well documented but what other offensive force at a premium position did not get in first ballot? Is there a chance that Piazza also got dragged down in the steroid mess? I've never heard an accusation leveled against him but it seems that whole era may collectively catch some flack come voting time.

Jeff Pearlman flat out called Piazza a hardcore 'roider in his book "The Rocket That Fell to Earth". He dared Piazza to sue him but he (Piazza) didn't because he knew he'd be questioned under oath. Perjury was Bond's and Clemen's eventual downfall.

Some of his teammates and reporters stated that Piazza had terrible back acne due to his 'roid use and that it was well known througout the lockerroom and league. To tell you the truth, I was surprised he got as many votes as he did.

As the hundreds of major league ballplayers who turned to performance-enhancing drugs throughout the 1990s did their absolute best to keep the media at arm's length, Piazza took the opposite approach. According to several sources, when the subject of performance enhancing was broached with reporters he especially trusted, Piazza fessed up. "Sure, I use," he told one. "But in limited doses, and not all that often." (Piazza has denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but there has always been speculation.) Whether or not it was Piazza's intent, the tactic was brilliant: By letting the media know, of the record, Piazza made the information that much harder to report. Writers saw his bulging muscles, his acne-covered back. They certainly heard the under-the-breath comments from other major league players, some who considered Piazza's success to be 100 percent chemically delivered. "He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it," says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. "It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched."

"There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids," says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. "Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. 'Power from nowhere,' we called it."

When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn't pause.

"A 12," he says. "Maybe a 13."


http://deadspin.com/5180679/mike-piazza-the-back-acne-was-the-least-of-it

 

[FootballDad]

Welcome, Hawk. I must say that for an opening post, you don't shy away from a controversy.

However, as a big Dodgers fan back in the day, I have to agree with you. Everyone in L.A. knew that Piazza was juiced. I met him in an autograph line after a game once and was amazed at how huge he was. On the field with a loose jersey it wasn't quite as obvious, but there was no doubt. As for him sucking before his "transformation", I don't know about that. Many of the same arguments given for Bonds apply. Sure, the 'roids gave him power, but his ability to see the ball and his catching ability are a separate thing. The question is, is his power what made him a potential hall of fame player, or his innate ability?

 

[white is right]

Welcome, Hawk. I must say that for an opening post, you don't shy away from a controversy.

However, as a big Dodgers fan back in the day, I have to agree with you. Everyone in L.A. knew that Piazza was juiced. I met him in an autograph line after a game once and was amazed at how huge he was. On the field with a loose jersey it wasn't quite as obvious, but there was no doubt. As for him sucking before his "transformation", I don't know about that. Many of the same arguments given for Bonds apply. Sure, the 'roids gave him power, but his ability to see the ball and his catching ability are a separate thing. The question is, is his power what made him a potential hall of fame player, or his innate ability?

I once saw 2 or 3 of the Amigos(Juan Gonzalez and Rueben Sierra) emerge from a hotel in Toronto and they were just huge. Basically they looked like the Barbarian Brothers. This was when I knew baseball had a steroid problem....:scared:

 

[jaxvid]

Piazza and steroids huh? I never heard much about that. Probably why he got some votes, a lotta guys might not have known much about it. I was wondering why he didn't get more love from the voters. He has probably the best batting stats of any catcher ever. I know he wasn't great with the glove but those offensive numbers....

Along with Giambi that makes two of the most recent great paisanos in MLB roiders. Mama mia!! Biggio is going to have to bail them out next year.

I wanted Morris to get in, but I'm biased, I saw him pitch a lot back in the day and he was a gamer. His stats are good enough and he has some of the right credentials. No hitter, big WS victories, multiple 20 game winning seasons. And pitched the best World Series game this side of Don Larson.

My memory might be a little shaky but in 1977 I went to a Tigers game to see the comeback of Mark "the Bird" Fidrych, but the Bird couldn't go that night, the first of many failed comebacks. So they threw out a kid from the minors. Some guy named Jack Morris. I couldn't have been more disappointed. Worked out okay for him though.

 

[Tannehill17]

I agree 100% on Murph. He deserved it. Played C and CF and was the best player of his day. Nobody was hitting HRs in the 80s. I still remember the agonizingly boring Braves announcers from the 80s saying in the most monotone voice "another home run for dale murphy. way to go dale."

HA! That announcer was Skip Caray (RIP) son of the famous Cubs announcer Harry Caray. I know a lot of people found Skip to be monotone and boring but I loved that voice of his. Growing up in South Florida, there were no MLB teams here back in the day (the Marlins didn't come along until 1993) so the Braves were kind of the de-facto home team here and Skips voice just oozes memories of my childhood!

 

[Don Wassall]

We're about a month away from what to me is the most interesting HOF ballot ever. No one was elected in '13, with Craig Biggio, Jack Morris and Jeff Bagwell coming closest.

2014 is Morris's last chance before his eligibility run out. Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine are both eligible for the first time. Both should get in the first ballot, or at least Maddux should as he is one of the top ten pitchers in the history of the sport, though never heralded like one.

Frank Thomas is also on the ballot for the first time, along with Jeff Kent. Add in Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Dale Murphy, and you've got a quite a number of former superstars on the same ballot, albeit with some tainted by their association with steroids. Sosa and McGwire will never get in, but Bonds might eventually and Clemens should as he's never been definitively linked with steroids use (not that the media cares as they've always hated Roger).

I'll predict that Maddux and Biggio get in, with Glavine and Bagwell fairly close, and Morris very close but just short on his last try.

 

[jaxvid]

We're about a month away from what to me is the most interesting HOF ballot ever. No one was elected in '13, with Craig Biggio, Jack Morris and Jeff Bagwell coming closest.

2014 is Morris's last chance before his eligibility run out. Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine are both eligible for the first time. Both should get in the first ballot, or at least Maddux should as he is one of the top ten pitchers in the history of the sport, though never heralded like one.

Frank Thomas is also on the ballot for the first time, along with Jeff Kent. Add in Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Dale Murphy, and you've got a quite a number of former superstars on the same ballot, albeit with some tainted by their association with steroids. Sosa and McGwire will never get in, but Bonds might eventually and Clemens should as he's never been definitively linked with steroids use (not that the media cares as they've always hated Roger).

I'll predict that Maddux and Biggio get in, with Glavine and Bagwell fairly close, and Morris very close but just short on his last try.

I agree with your picks and I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Thomas gets in too. The DWF sports writers love him and they might want to put him in before something comes up or he screws up. Even if he doesn't get in he will eventually become the 'most deserving black guy not in the Hall'. So why wait?

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

We're about a month away from what to me is the most interesting HOF ballot ever. No one was elected in '13, with Craig Biggio, Jack Morris and Jeff Bagwell coming closest.

2014 is Morris's last chance before his eligibility run out. Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine are both eligible for the first time. Both should get in the first ballot, or at least Maddux should as he is one of the top ten pitchers in the history of the sport, though never heralded like one.

Frank Thomas is also on the ballot for the first time, along with Jeff Kent. Add in Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Dale Murphy, and you've got a quite a number of former superstars on the same ballot, albeit with some tainted by their association with steroids. Sosa and McGwire will never get in, but Bonds might eventually and Clemens should as he's never been definitively linked with steroids use (not that the media cares as they've always hated Roger).

I'll predict that Maddux and Biggio get in, with Glavine and Bagwell fairly close, and Morris very close but just short on his last try.

Great post great topic Don.

Maddux and Glavine get in.

Personally I would vote for Biggio because he played the most demanding positions on the field even though I dont' feel like he was ever really a great hitter. (I know, I know he got 3K hits, but he was only a .281 career hitter)

Bagwell is very borderline. I wouldn't vote for him, but when you let Jim Rice in you have to let bagwell in.

Jack Morris was good but just not good enough IMO.

It is a crime that Murphy isn't in. His stats just don't look that greatcompared to the roid era but he dominated the 80s.

Where would negro Frank T. be without the DH?

The nuthugger negro wannabees always proclaim that BB was "a HOFer before he ever took roids"as if they know when he startd cheating . Of course the same standard is never applied to McGwire by the nuthuggers. Blacks are always held to the lower standard and glorified for lesser achievements. Unfortunately the nuthuggers will vote him in.

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

Kent def. deserves it. All time great numbers for a 2nd baseman.

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

After all these years, I still have to gripe about the strike zone the umps gave Glavine back in the day. I still remember them calling strikes for him when the pitch was a foot out of the strike zone.

The opposite can be said for BB. Nothing that got pitched to him was called a strike unless it was right in his wheelhouse. And the way he wouldcrowd the plate with his suit of armor on used to make me sick.

Dale Murphy was the Jim Thome of the 80s. Greatest guys you'd ever meet, some of the best players in the game and they got not one bit of respect in the media