Mcnair retires

Discussion in 'Baltimore Ravens' started by Guest, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Mr. Wassall,


    I would like to respectfully point out that you side stepped my question about your feelings on Boller's poor play if he were black. I'm curious to know what you'd say. I'm pretty sure I already know the answer but I could be wrong who know's.


    To answer about Boller's play at the end of 2005 being an abberation, if the organization thought he was the answer, why did Steve Bischotti pony up to get a "moderatley talented, oft-injured, inconsistent black QB" instead of turning the reins over to the "marginally talented, overdrafted, inconsistent white QB"? Is it because Ray Lewis and they other blacks on the team said so? Was it the drunken white fans? It wasn't any of that, the reason is because there was an option available to the Ravens that was better than the one they had. If they felt at all comfortable with Boller they wouldn't have made a move for Mcnair or drafted Flacco for that matter. Bischotti is signing the checks, he's a businessman and you don't become a multi-billionaire by accident.


    Look at the Boller/Mcnair situation like this. If you had a car that was only 3-4 years old but ran very inconsistently and had poor overall performance would you go out and spend alot of money for an older car that performed pretty well, but was noted for having significant problems. Not if you trusted the car that you already had.


    Akili Smith is an example of a first round black QB in and out of the starting lineup with no continuity. Smith was in and out because of hispiss poor performance. By your account being black should have kept him on the roster and in the starting lineup, but he wasn't because hewasn't a good QB.


    You turned my question around on me about if Jackson, Young, and Kordell were white and had poor seasons. Would they be treated with kid gloves because they weren't black? Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch are my answers to that. Both very mediocre to say the least. Both given every chance to live up to their high draft status. Both complete failures and out of the league well before the age of 30.


    Whitlock's article means nothing to me really. All it says IMO is that the black players of yesterday respected the game and kept their mouths shut. The black players of today are loud and obnoxious and rap music is to blame. Really the article has nothing to do with Kyle Boller being a flop.


    Where was I when Eli and Drew were being proclaimed immediate busts? Where is it written or universally understood that white QB's have to perform at some super-human level to stay relevant? Again, see the Couch and Leaf examples, they underperformed and stayed relevant for a while.


    IMO no matter what I say about Boller you have some kind of excuse for his inconsistent play. I don't know if you are related to this dude or what, but for some reason you refuse to hold him accountable for his poor play. It is possible for a white QB to completley suck. Couch, Leaf, Carr, Carmazzi, Druckenmiller, Mcnown are all fine examples of such. In a year we'll be adding Boller to that list as well.


    To me if you are anti black QB's or black players as a collective whole orfeel that white players are superior,then just say so. If that's how you feel so be it. At leastI would know that it would be futile for me to say anything contrary.
     
  2. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I mentioned that I didn't think Boller was necessarily star material, only thatBillick never gave him a consistent opportunity to succeed, and that the one time he did do well he was promptlydemoted. You should try getting a feel for this site before making assumptions; for example check out what I wrote in the Vince Young thread in the Titans forum about black quarterbacks a couple of days ago. There's no need for me to reiterate the same things I've already written about Boller and the Ravens as it just goes in one of your ears and out the other.


    From what you've written in this thread and the Maryland Terrapins thread, it's clear that you don't think the fans and media have different standards and expectations for white and black players, that personnel and recruiting decisions are made by coaches on strictly a color blind basis, and that team owners consider only the bottom line without any social or racial considerations. In other words youbelieve white players always get a fair shake and that thereisno Caste System in football. So then why are you here?
     
  3. KG2422

    KG2422 Mentor

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    Tim Couch didn't "suck". His stats weren't that bad despite playing for an expansion team that protected him poorly and gave him little to work with. He even took them to the playoffs once. Shoulder injuries have probably ended his career. I think he is a good example of the media double standard. His stats:

    http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid =COUCHTIM01

    Keep in mind that football is a team sport. You are highly dependent on how others do their jobs so you can do yours. Anyone who ever played the game knows that.
     
  4. Thrashen

    Thrashen Hall of Famer

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    "Would excuses for his inept play be made? All the excuses in the world can be made for any player. We can go on for days about the "culture" of the orginzation, but in the end poor performance is poor performance period."


    Sportsfan #1, I think the problem is that you "true fans" (in this case, of the thug-ridden Ravens) allow the line between making excuses and describing reality to blur. The point Don was trying to make with the Jason Whitlock article was just that.

    Do you think it's a "fun" situation for white players to be inundated with convicted felons as co-workers? Not to mention the "racial unity" that an NFL team tends to have. Don is also correct in saying that "community" is important to NFL success. Look at the Colts and Pats for instance....no thugs, criminals, baffoons, etc. Contrast that with teams like the Bengals, who've had over a dozen players arrested (and several suspended) in the past couple seasons.

    Also, if you really don't believe in the caste system in american athletics....simply discontinue posting here.

    Trust me, you won't find any supporters of your cause on forums like this one. We're dedicated, organized, and best of all...we all saw through the lies long ago.
     
  5. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

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    Well, the Ravens have, shockingly enough, named Troy Smith the starting QB for the 3rd preseason game, which effectively means he'll be the starter when the regular season opens. I guess it was his 3 completions last game that did it. Or perhaps just his innate athleticism.

    Troy Smith is a complete joke of a QB. There is no way a white QB of comparable skills would even be drafted, let alone have any chance at all of starting in the NFL.
     
  6. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    The writing was on the wall when Kyle Boller gave himself the death sentence by performing well at the end of 2005. How silly would the Ravens have looked if Boller would have turned in a pro-bowl season this year? Since my prediction was spot-on, I now predict that Boller will be demoted to third string. Maybe not now but if and when Smith gets injured you will see Joe Flacco instead. The reason being that Flacco's success can't be looked at as a several seasons long mistake - rookies are not expected to start.

    Kinda like when the Buffalo Bills unexplicitly benched Doug Flutie and then watched Rob Johnson sink the team as Flutie never played for the Bills again. Egos need to be protected above all - winning is secondary in today's NFL.
     
  7. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Good post, Poop. You've highlighted an aspect of the caste system that often goes unmentioned - protecting egos.
     
  8. Quiet Speed

    Quiet Speed Mentor

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    Does anybody remember the Ravens firing offensive coordinator Jim Fassel? I suspect that episode was about protecting egos and saving face. A lot of egos were heavily invested emotionally in their man McNair. It came when the McNair led offense was sputtering along. When McNair had a terrible outing on a nationally televised night game, it was hinted that "team leaders" wanted to oust the OC. Sure enough Fassel got the ax. I can't say for sure how Kyle Boller would rank ordinarily. As an outsider, it looks like he has been put in an extra-ordinary situation, though. Good luck, Kyle.
     
  9. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    Yes that was certainly a good post. I think a perfect example of egos at work can be seen with the Bears and Mike Hass. I think Don Wassal already mentioned this phenomenon but it is spot on. Hass clearly should have been in the mix with all the dropped passes and struggling offense last season. Racist no Lovie Smith still refused to play him. Even the GM made a comment about how he thought Hass should have been activated and played in a few games when the Bears were mathematically out of the playoffs to see what they got in him.

    Now Lovie and the GM that stands by him will have to protect their egos. Hass will never get playing time in Chicago because they know in their hearts he is "at least" a decent NFL WR from what they have seen of him in pre-season and college (won the best WR in college award). Playing Hass now and having him succeed would infuriate all the newly overpaid black FA WRs they just brought in. The black WRs, marxist media and drunken fans would all be asking "who the hell is this random white boy, the next Ricky Prohl I guess, where'd he come from... duhhhduhh?" even if he only made slot WR. There are egos to protect. Or if you are one of the new overrated black FAs signed by the Bears you might say "who is this no-name white veteran that's never played before stealing my limelight?" Hass could make a lot of people look bad!
     
  10. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Tough J, you're exactly right. Hass will never get a chance now that Lovie has sunk his heels in against some opposition from the GM.

    BTW, last night Boller was not given even a chance to win the starter spot and Smith was not given a chance to lose it (he was only in for one pass). Flacco, being a rookie, has no chance of being named the opening day starter. A perfect recipe for a pre-selected position. All this talk about competing for positions is mostly just talk - they've been selected long ago.
     
  11. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

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    Boller is conveniently injured, and may not be ready for the season opener. Hmmm. Kind of clears the way for that affletic black QB, doesn't it? Something tells me that Troy Smith will be given just a bit more of a chance to succeed.
     
  12. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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  13. Poacher

    Poacher Mentor

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    Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.
     
  14. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    The McNair shooting should have it's own thread. No? backrow, want to start one?
     
  15. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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    i don't know WS, i think this thread and its name is quite suiting.

    *too soon for dark humor?
     
  16. Thrashen

    Thrashen Hall of Famer

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    The "Sports Reporters" (jock-sniffers supreme) on EPSN were seronading McNair this morning. Obviously, they were only touching on the positive aspects of his life....they left out the little domestic abuse issue from a few years back. The news-media PTB will only remember the items we're "permitted" to hear and see.

    His death is looking pretty scadalous.Edited by: Thrashen
     
  17. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    As of now, it looks like a murder-suicide. The woman, one Saheel Kazimi, was a waitress whom McNair had been going with for several months. She appears to have shot McNair several times and then shot herself in the head.

    David Climer, Nashville Tennessean sports columnist, wrote: "He was one of us. That's how we'll remember Steve McNair."
     
  18. NorCal831

    NorCal831 Newbie

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    i don't get it, isn't that common courtesy in the U.S., celebrity or not? whenever someone passed away that i knew everybody would only remember the good times and good things about that person. im sure if a friend or acquaintance of any of yours passed away and did something (a domestic abuse instanse) like that you guys wouldnt be talking about it the day, or day after he died, itd be dissrespectful. i dont see why itd be any different for a celebrity, black or white.
     
  19. WHITE NOISE

    WHITE NOISE Mentor

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    Actually, it is a means to identify with the good in someone. In that regard, the loved ones that are left behind have a balm of sorts for their grief. In the world that McAdulterer lived in, when you dance with the scarecrow sometimes you get the straw.

    McSpousalabuse was no friend of mine... Look to see ConVick in a similar situation someday.
     
  20. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    [​IMG] ok, good point!
     
  21. NorCal831

    NorCal831 Newbie

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    i was talking to my friend (a comedian) after one of his shows and he said, "well i guess now we know a head injury is the only thing that can keep mcnair off the field. too soon?"

    i actually really liked mcnair, but i had to laugh at that one. i told him he has to work that joke on stage for sure.
     
  22. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    McConcussion looks like his death was the ethnic sequel to Fatal Attraction. Out goes Michael Douglas, in comes Denzel Washington. Out goes Glenn Close in comes Eva Mendes. Also look for somebody in congress to propose burying McConcussion in Arlington National Cemetery. Edited by: white is right
     
  23. Thrashen

    Thrashen Hall of Famer

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    Norcal, suppose that James Von Brunn had died during his attack on the Holocaust Museum last month. Do you think the same news-media you're defending would extend the "common courtesy" of which you speak? I SEVERELY doubt that. In fact, I'm positive that they'd outright celebrate the death of any racially conscious white male on planet earth.

    The members of the media are the judges in determining that Von Brunn is an evil racist and McNair's is a fallen saint. Therein lies the problem, as the media (and nearly every member of the american government) are convinced that pleasing american minorities is simply more important than pleasing white americans.

    If you truly believe the media would "celebrate the good" in a man such as James Von Brunn....then you're correct about one thing: "you don't get it." If you truly believe that white and black celebrities are not "treated any different"Â￾ by media members...then you are clinically insane.

    As others have suggested, when moronic athletes such as Mike Vick, Ray Lewis, Pacman Jones, or Leonard Little eventually pass away due to their own stupidity"¦.I'm sure ESPN, NFL Network and the like will collectively weep over their darling little fallen angles.
     
  24. NorCal831

    NorCal831 Newbie

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    your comparing steve mcnair to a guy that shot up the holocaust museum? obviously murderers are going to be treated differently by the media, and they should be.
     
  25. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree that it would be wrong and pointless to bring up negatives about him right after he is killed at the age of 36. If he turns out to be the murderer that would be different but that doesn't appear to be the case. McNair wasn't an angel, but compared to most NFL players heplayed with a lot ofcharacter and unselfishness. He tailed off prematurely as a player, but he cared only about winning games not his personal statistics, and in his prime he had a nice combination of arm strength, brute strength, and running ability. He's the best black QB after Warren Moon and Donovan McNabb, and probably better than Moon in getting the best out of his team as the Houston Oilers were chronic chokers in the playoffs during Moon's playing days.
     

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