Dirk Nowitzki

Discussion in 'NBA' started by JD074, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Despite being very sick, Dirk still scored 21 points! Mavs tie it up. Dirk is indeed a Warrior! My question is do fans still think Lebron is the best player on the planet? Give me a break. Other than some good defense, and assists, I haven't seen anything special out of him. Wade has carried Miami on his back with alot of help from Bosh. They don't even need Lebron. Haha.

    Way to go Mavericks. I'm so happy they got the win. Especially with Dirk being so sick!
     
  2. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    A broken finger, and now the flu, and yet still able to lead Dallas (especially in the 4th period) to 2 crucial wins. We are all witnesses to a TRUE LEGEND, and 2 more wins will validate this.
     
  3. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Wade and Dirk are both far better players than James. This is what all the "King James" hype has been about all these years?? Other than being able to makeDWF-pleasing dunks on occasion, he's been far from a superstar in this series.

    Great to see the Mavericks pull it out with Dirk so sick, but there was a lot of lousy shooting by both teams.
     
  4. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Great News! Dirk needs at 12 hrs of sleep and fluids. When he awakes should feel alot better and well rested. I hope LeBrown continues to bee bop,up and down the court, thinking about why his father left his baby mama. 8 pts ! Something is bothering his affeletic brain. Another great epic comeback. Turning out to be a great series.
     
  5. texasheat

    texasheat Newbie

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    You guys hit the nail on the head -- what the heck has LeBron done so far to justify all the hype?? I don't want to jinx anything but check out this interesting stat of the night for all you basketball afficianados --

    4th quarter scoring in the series so far:
    Dirk Nowitzki = 44 points
    LeBron James = 9 points

    Pretty interesting point differential wouldn't you say?! I'm sure the media will pick up on that on the off day. GO MAVS!!!
     
  6. pistol pete

    pistol pete Guru

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    Dirk played great. Two game winning shots this series to go along with his epic 48 point game in the last series.
    Mentally tough. Great focus. And he finished off the Heat down the stretch.

    What happened to LeBron? This was the biggest game of his career and he disappears. If the Hear had won, this series would have basically been over.

    The Mavs bench played a lot better. They need a great game from their bench the rest of the way, especially in game 5. JJ Barea needs to keep attacking. Brian Cardinal gave them a few good minutes. LeBron steamrolled him once and it should have been a charge but they called it on Cardinal, but Cardinal played hard and is another big body to throw at the Heat. Cardinal also had a nice pass. Hopefully he gives the Mavs a few good minutes in Game 5. I really like the toughness of Haywood, Barea, Terry, and Cardinal. Peja needs to make some shots. Hopefully he has a couple of big games in him. If he has a great game and if Barea has a great game in another game then the Mavs will win this series.

    I liked Dallas' toughness a lot. Chandler and Marion played great inside and Dirk got some big rebounds down the stretch. They don't fold then they hit big shots. What I liked about Dirk in this game was that even though he missed a lot of shots he kept attacking and tried to get layups and get to the line. He didn't settle for jumpers.
     
  7. Deadlift

    Deadlift Hall of Famer

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    Lebron played well in Games 1 and 2, but has really looked lousy/shaky/desperate in Games 3 and 4.

    Just because Lebron is on Miami, that does not make him responsible for the Game 2 loss/collapse.. remember, Chris Bosh shot horribly in Games 1 and 2. If he was marginally better at shooting in Game 2, there wouldn't have been a comeback.

    Now, in this Game 4, Bosh had 24 points, but I wouldn't say he played that well. He bricked an easy (straight-up) jumper in the 4th and had the bad turnover when he was driving to the basket. He also finished with a pathetic 6 rebounds which is fairly typical for him..


    P.S. -- This series has been satisfying because it looks like the winner will have to EARN IT, and that's all we can ask for. I'm glad that Lebron (and Dirk) haven't gotten "all the calls." They can both be seen protesting to the refs when they think they are being "slighted" rather than getting down the court to play defense. Just play the game!
     
  8. foobar75

    foobar75 Master

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    Great win by the Mavs, and the last 3 games have been decided in the last few seconds! Either team could easily be up 3-1 right now.

    It's now essentially a best-of-3 series, so the Mavs must win game 5 at all cost because they cannot go back to Miami down 3-2. Hopefully Dirk will have recovered by Thursday because they will need him.

    As for LeBron, we're seeing why he can never lead a team to a championship and had to join up with Wade and Bosh. He simply lacks that alpha-dog gene, that killer instinct that players like Jordan, Bird, and Kobe had in their primes, and Wade and Dirk have now. Dirk has developed into an incredible clutch player. How many big plays has he made in these play-offs with the game on the line?

    Without Wade, the series would be over for Miami, he's clearly the one carrying his team now.

    LeBron is a talented player for sure, but it's beyond ludicrous when some jock-sniffing sports-writers think he'll one day be a top 5 player all-time.
    Edited by: foobar75
     
  9. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    I'd be careful to bash Lebron at this point, because anything happen in the next 2-3 games. He's clearly a great and talented player, it's just the hype from the media that makes him "overrated." The man after all (like Dirk), has his own demons to exorcise.

    I could be wrong here, but I think there might be some sort of "egotistic" power struggle happening within the ranks of the Heat players. While it has gotten them this far, it's becoming difficult for a team to continue like this when ONLY 3 players have the green light to shoot the ball. While Erik Spoelstra has proven himself a great coach, his inexperience is starting to unravel.

    It's clear that Wade is calling the shots, with James & Bosh "reluctantly" trying to be the 2nd and 3rd bananas. One thing this game has proven is, how wrong a backstabber named Pippen is, for considering Lebron to be better than Jordan. Way to show your true colors and be jealous for your teammate.

    Still, Miami remains a dangerous team, and Dallas had better prepare themsleves for Game 5. The winner of Game 5 "often" wins the series, so let's hope Dirk steadily recovers from his flu, while getting continued contribution from ANY of the other Mavs.Edited by: j41181
     
  10. Borussia

    Borussia Guru

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    I'm going to try and be objective, yet I am really hoping Dirk and the Mavs can pull off this upset. And yes, it would be an upset since Miami is the favorite to win the series.

    Dallas won Game 4 because they (finally) had key contributions from other players besides Dirk and Marion.
    JJ Barea must play most of the the game in Game 5 and he must continue to drive and penetrate. Terry also needs to hit baskets. He is still missing way too many shots.
    Chandler and Marion are playing well and they must continue to do so for Dallas to pull this out.

    Besides this, Miami's lack of chemistry at key instances and the fact that they make stupid turnovers did them in in Game 4.
    I'd love to see Dirk and Kidd get rings.

    However, Miami has a tendency to play better when feeling slighted and this 'back to the wall' gimmick.
    Personally, Spolstra does not appear to be totally respected as head coach and this team is nothing short then a player's team.
    Wade, James or Bosh can get one of those red hot games so Dallas must continue to keep the pressure on and stay within striking distance in all games.

    Refs did a much better job in Game 4, then in 3.
    Again, Dirk can not to everything and it looks like the Mavs finally got the memo.
    It's a damn entertaining series and you can clearly tell most of the media would love the Mavs to pull this out - better copy for the big 3 to fall flat of their goal.

    Something about James in the crunch this year is way off.
    I don't perceive it at all as a 'power struggle', it's just basic chemistry of who is the go to guy. You basically have 3 players used to this role.
    Miami's x factor believe it or not is Bosh.
    When he's off and ice cold, things tend to snow ball toward more ineptitude.

    Mavs missed some key shots down the stretch. Good looks, baskets just didn't fall.
    It shouldn't have even been that close.
    Game 5 is frankly and cliche as it is 'another must win' - for both teams.
     
  11. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Yeah, what Pippen said to discredit Jordan, pales in comparsion to what Parker did to Brent Barry his teammate at the time with the Spurs. Parker attempted/did to have sex with his wife. What a prick. This affair is what caused Eva Longoria to divorce Parker. Sorry to go on a rant here.
     
  12. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    [<div>I guarantee a victory tonight. You heard it hear first. I am positive that they will win.</div>[/QUOTE]

    The post heard around the forums! Good call White Lighting. As I read this post, a feeling of the Mavs winning this game came over me. Finally, Dirk is starting to get help from his teammates at critical times as well. Lets hope this tread continues Thursday with the team running on all cylinders.
     
  13. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I'll be so happy if "Pig" James and company lose this series. This egotistical prick tried to create a "Dream Team" of himself, Wade, and Bosh and to see it backfire would be priceless.

    It's crucial the Mavs win game five because it's a home game. If they can win it they should win the series. If they lose, it would be incredibly hard to win two games in Miami.Edited by: whiteathlete33
     
  14. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    Mavs will win game five, I wanted to post that before White Lightning beat me to it(LOL) and besides I predicted a Mavs win in 6 and need to be consistent. If Dirk pulls this off and gets his ring he will shoot from superstar status straight to icon, legendary status and a inspiration to white kids around the world with a basketball in their hands. Dirk should be finals MVP at end of this.Edited by: guest301
     
  15. Vanilla_Sky

    Vanilla_Sky Mentor

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    I was actually glad to see Cardinal get some minutes for the Mavs. DWFs criticize him as "unathletic" and "Confused", but he's quite the opposite.

    I would still be careful if I were the Mavs. Even if they take a 3-2 lead, they have two games in Miami and that's a tough place to win in.
     
  16. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    I think the Mavs have been careful, Walnut. They are a humble veteran team that is led by their very humble superstar(perhaps too much so) in search of a ring. They know they have to do more than just step out on the court and win games, The Heat are the exact opposite. I think karma is working against the Heat in this series, they don't deserve a title and hopefully they don't get one.
     
  17. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Think positive guys. I will post my prediction tommorow. My point though is that we need to believe that Dallas can win just like they need to believe in themselves. We have a tendency here at this board to be very negative. I have done it too many times. Time to change the mindset. Let's go with positive energy and thoughts and just see what happens.



    Last year was an incredible year at this board. We had Duke win the National Title. The Klitshko Brothers dominated all year again. Christophe Lemaitre went sub 10 and then went on to win 3 gold medals at the European Championships. Then to cap it off, Peyton Hillis rushed for over 1200 yards! Who would have predicted all of those great things happening? Probably very few of us. My point is that there is no reason why it's not possible for Dallas to win the title. They have smart veterans who have been here before. Let's stay behind these guys and especially Dirk. We are watching one of the greatest players of all time!

    One last thing. With Dirks free throw shooting lately being almost perfect, he has passed Larry "Legend" Bird for the highest career free throw percentage in the playoffs ever! Wow is Dirk great! Let's go Mavs. Let's go Dirk Nowitzki! Edited by: white lightning
     
  18. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    Maybe it's just me, but I don't believe the Mavericks have played even close to their capabilities yet. I do believe that they are starting to figure out how to stop the Heat offense. It's not that LeBron was not trying to score, he was, he was just faced with contested shot after contested shot. The longer this series goes the better the Mavericks chances of winning it. Miami has been in control every game and has lost two of them. Does anyone really think they are going to control every game? Sooner or later the Mavericks will control one and the Heat better hope it is not game seven.
     
  19. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I've really been enjoying sports lately. The Stanley Cup playoffs are always great, the tennis has been superb this year, and golf is so much more enjoyable without the media talking about the injured and now almost forgottenTiger Woods 80 percent of the time. Whites are more than holding their own in baseball again this season, and Lemaitre is going sub-10 again. And Nowitzki's play has been sensational whether Dallas ends up winning the championship or not. If not no one will be blaming Dirk, unlike past seasons. It's all good right now.
     
  20. GiovaniMarcon

    GiovaniMarcon Mentor

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    White Lightning -- don't forget also the awesomeness of Chris Solinksi being the first White guy to go sub 27:00 minutes in the 10k track race. Fantastic!
     
  21. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    The praise and fanfare for Dirk has increased astronomically, starting with sweeping the Lakers, to 40-point games against the Thunder, to unbelievable heroics in the Finals. It's now safe to say that Dirk has finally stepped out of Bird's shadow, to become a legendary, iconic white player on his own. No matter the outcome, Dirk has finally earned long overdue respect and fame.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6641871

    Dirk Nowitzki has answered questions</font>
    By Howard Bryant
    ESPN

    For all the coronations of the Miami Heat not only as a great basketball team but as the future face of the league -- LeBron James is the first NBA superstar for the generation in which television and Internet sports coverage has surpassed in influence newspapers and magazines -- the real winner in these Finals is not Wade, James or the forever maligned Chris Bosh.

    Dirk Nowitzki has always been a great shooter, but his ability to score multiple ways is what makes him truly great.

    Regardless of the outcome, Dirk Nowitzki finally has answered all questions about his abilities and his greatness as a basketball player, questions that were never fair in nature.

    Nearly as much as James, Nowitzki has been the subject of the fickle discussions that surround a star: what he did or did not do in crunch time, whether he came up small in the final moments of Game 3, whether he should have jumped ship in the offseason, too. These discussions existed when print was king but have been accelerated to recklessness in the age of runaway television punditry and a social media culture that assesses legacy -- a term that by definition cannot be discussed without appropriate distance -- minute-to-minute, timeout-to-timeout.

    The truth, given time to breathe and be analyzed, is this: Nowitzki will go down as one of the greatest players in the history of the game, the greatest player of his franchise, the best (NBA) player Germany has ever produced. He has proved it this year -- especially during these playoffs, when the Mavericks have transformed themselves from a team not tough enough to win into a formidable out -- and in previous years that he can carry a team early or late. The outcome of the 2011 NBA Finals will do nothing to change that.

    The concept of the "instant legacy" has permeated sport and lowered the level of intelligent discussion regarding how the game is played and the players who play it. TV commentators assess a player's entire career based on two minutes at the end of each game. Meanwhile, the second-by-second instant analysis on social media doesn't stop when the buzzer sounds. James has been in the playoffs for seven years, carrying a nondescript Cleveland team that without him is once again invisible after six straight postseasons -- and his critics are legion. Peyton Manning was once a weak playoff performer, but that changed when he won the Super Bowl against Chicago. Then he lost to the Saints and was somehow relegated back to being subpar in the clutch. Before last year's seventh and deciding game between the Lakers and Celtics, the ESPN pregame roundtable asked aloud if Kobe Bryant -- already the greatest player of his generation -- needed to win that night to "cement his legacy."

    Newspapers and magazines have always engaged in the same type of hero construction and deconstruction. The difference now is the speed of the technology and its volume. For his career, Nowitzki has averaged 23.0 points and 8.4 rebounds on 47.6 percent shooting. In 11 straight playoffs, he has averaged 25.9 points and 10.4 rebounds on 46.5 percent shooting. He has won one fewer conference title (two) than Isiah Thomas, Hakeem Olajuwon, Walt Frazier and Karl Malone, with a far weaker supporting cast. He has been one of the most consistent players in the game since the day he entered, and the only perceived negative in his game is he's never won the last game of any season.

    Nowitzki has re-emerged after four seasons of early playoff exits.

    Nowitzki has been brilliant all postseason, destroying the Lakers, outgunning Kevin Durant in the West finals and now against Miami. In losing Game 3, Nowitzki scored 34 points with 11 rebounds, at one point scoring nearly all of Dallas' points. In the Game 4 win, he scored 10 of his 21 points in the fourth quarter, including a lay-in on a drive to the basket with 14.4 seconds left, despite battling illness. The Mavericks have won two games in the series, and Nowitzki has scored the final field goal in each.

    While he is playing with another Hall of Fame-level player in Jason Kidd, Kidd is no longer an iconic, impact player. Kidd, in fact, has looked invisible during this series, unable to penetrate, spot up for 3-point shots or lock on Dwyane Wade defensively. As far as A-list talent goes, Nowitzki has been alone.

    The narrative in basketball the past dozen years is to compare every player to Michael Jordan, the greatest individual postseason performer in league history. Even Bill Russell lost once in the Finals. But the world changed how it perceives and absorbs the NBA in the past decade more than Jordan changed the world. While it is true that once Jordan became a champion he never would lose again, it is also true that Jordan was not an infallible postseason performer, evidenced by his struggles early in his career, when the league boasted three legitimate powers in Boston, Los Angeles and Detroit.

    Nor did Jordan, because the technology did not exist, have to deal with the instant legacy phenomenon. How differently he would have been viewed in the social media/television world after missing an easy 12-foot game winner at the end of the first overtime in his 63-point masterpiece loss to the Celtics back in '86, or after his frustrations at the hands of the Pistons, or in light of the fact that even 17 years later, he has never quite explained why he retired from basketball.

    Plenty of examples exist of A-list players who suffered spectacular failures during the biggest games of their careers, where it appeared the moment was too big, and they wanted to win so badly the pressure prevented them from playing their game. Chris Webber comes to mind, as did, for a time, Alex Rodriguez and Barry Bonds in baseball. Those players had to learn how to become playoff performers, how to allow the game to slow and how to be themselves.

    Nowitzki has never fallen into this category. He has always been a formidable player. He was not immune to the bitter loss against Miami in the 2006 Finals, which was considered a collapse because the Mavericks led in games 2-0 and were up by 13 points with six minutes left in Game 3, only to lose. The Mavericks would not win another game, losing three of the final four games by two, one and three points. His worst postseason came the following year, when the driven Mavericks were embarrassed by Golden State, the eighth seed.

    When the Mavs have needed a basket late in the game, Dirk Nowitzki has been able to go to the rim.

    But Nowitzki was merely a part of the bad energy that surrounded the Mavericks, their coach, Avery Johnson, and the negative momentum that is a part of surviving losses that should have been victories. Devastating losses have devastating consequences to a franchise.

    The Mavericks suffered a hangover and then were simply not a great team in an extremely competitive conference, losing to the Spurs last season, beating them the year before but losing to Denver in the conference semifinals and losing in 2008 to an inspired New Orleans club. Since losing to Golden State, at no point had the Mavericks been anything but a good to very good team in a conference full of them, until their playoffs resurgence this spring.

    If he is guilty of anything, it is that Nowitzki's game is not suited for the playoffs. He is at his best when he is using all of his weapons -- his height and agility going to the rim combined with a deadly shooting touch -- and at his worst when he is a one-dimensional jump shooter.

    Traditionally, jump shooting big men struggle in the playoffs. Defenses are sharper. Officials allow for a more physical style of play and offenses get pushed further out, taking some players out of their comfortable shooting range. Kevin Garnett in his postseasons with the Timberwolves and Karl Malone in two Finals battles with the Bulls were examples of this. Nowitzki has always been at his best when he buttresses his shot with penetration, his breakthrough coming in the second round of 2006, when he almost single-handedly destroyed the San Antonio Spurs, his greatest rival, with a devastating array of long- and mid-range shots and dribble penetration. That was Nowitzki at his best, as it was with his game winner in Game 2.

    Nowitzki's legacy, which will change because he's still active, is nevertheless secure as a great player. Charles Barkley never won a title. Julius Erving won one, lost in the Finals three times, and blew a 3-1 lead to the Celtics in '81, yet he is an unassailable, great player.

    Nor should we forget that in Larry Bird's first four years, his Celtics were dusted in five by Philadelphia in 1980, lost to the Sixers in seven in 1982 despite having home court and winning Game 1 by 40 -- yes, 40 points -- and were swept in the second round despite having home court in 1983 by Milwaukee. Only in 1981 did Bird come through, winning a title but only after the 76ers blew a 3-1 series lead in an epic Game 7. Superstars don't always win, but they carry their teams beyond their capabilities.

    Nowitzki suffers less from an inability to play championship-level basketball and far more from the narrow-mindedness of the instant legacy attitude. Everyone talking needs to take a deep breath.

    Championships can be won in the final minutes of the fourth quarter, but they are often lost long before that. Perhaps Nowitzki will win a championship during his NBA career, perhaps as soon as this week. If he does, he will not have to answer the question of whether he was a big-time player. If he does not, the public and media should know better than to ask.
     
  22. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    I have to admit that ESPN's basketball analytical team of Stuart, Jon Barry, Wilbon and Magic have been excellent. They have been spot on in their reasons why the series has flowed the way it has thus far.

    They all have lauded Dirk in every concievable way, and some of his supporting players, like JJ, Matrix and Terry.

    They have rightly praised the greatness of Wade and savaged LeBrown at every turn.

    This ESPN team has not used caste speak or spoke of coded mythical black affeletism. Its quite enjoyable listening to their analysis especially when the Mavs win. [​IMG]
     
  23. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    I noticed the other night that on a play of that a bogus call was called against the Mavs on replay the announcer said something to the effect of "those kind of call is what makes the game a farce." A strong statement for an NBA announcer. Surely he and others have had the farce of the 2006 finals on their mind.

    This year replay has really been revealing. Dirk may complain from time to time, but he is almost always vindicated on replay whereas Wade and Lebron are rarely vindicated by the replay.

    I've learned from years of playing softball that human nature plays a part in almost all umpires/refs. If you have two equally talented teams and one is meek and mild mannered while the other is loud and brash, the loud and brash will ALWAYS get all the calls. It's amazing how much that plays into how a game is called. A lesson in life - if you don't stick up for yourself you will always be used as a door mat.
     
  24. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Yeah, Kaptain I agree. Whites for the past 40 years or so based on brainwashing and comfort in what they have, have become a door mat to be stepped on.
     
  25. DWFan

    DWFan Mentor

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    I have not seen any of this series live (that changes tonight) but have had incredible fun watching ESPN2 in the morning. After one of the games Bayless ranked Dirk a 7 out of 10. I hope one of the black dudes (who like/respect Dirk) calls him on it if they win.
     

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