Did the Outcomes of Super Bowls 19 and 20 Accelerate the Caste System?

[footballenthusiast]

It has been noted over the years on this forum that the caste system really kicked into high gear in the mid-1980s. I can't help but wonder if the outcomes of two back-to-back Super Bowls in that time period had a part to play in that acceleration.

Super Bowl 19 - Dolphins majority White defense (7-8 White starters) collapsed and was clobbered by the significantly darker 49ers in an unexpected 38-16 blowout.

Super Bowl 20 - Bears majority black defense (3 White starters) utterly destroyed the Patriots in a 46-10 rout that lives in on NFL legend.

I can't help but wonder if these two games were a kind of death knell for White athletes in the caste non-approved positions, specifically White defensive players. The connection is there, a colossal failure of a mostly White defense was followed up immediately by the immense success of a mostly black defense. Something like that has to be noticed by the entire football world, from those who make a living out of the game to casual fans who tune in every once in a while.

What really brought this up in my mind was reading Bill Walsh's book, Building a Champion. He talks about that Dolphins defense. Maybe this is just me reading way too much into it, but some of it reads like thinly-veiled caste speak:

"As I walked through the Dolphins, I could see a distinct difference between the two squads. We were a much more physical, more athletic football team than Miami. Maybe it was just the color of their uniforms, but the Dolphins didn't look physical. We weren't really a big team, but we were very athletic. At that moment my confidence soared."

"...I thought we could attack their defense effectively. It wasn't difficult to recognize that they didn't have outstanding speed and quickness."

"Working against a physically weaker Miami defense..."

I realized that Don Shula had done it with mirrors, because he didn't have the physical ability we had. For the Dolphins to have gone 14-2 and won two playoff games was a real tribute to Don."

Am I reading too much into all this or is there something here? Both in Walsh's comments and in the idea of these games having a substantial impact on the development of the caste system. I really want to hear everyone's input on this.

 

[white is right]

It has been noted over the years on this forum that the caste system really kicked into high gear in the mid-1980s. I can't help but wonder if the outcomes of two back-to-back Super Bowls in that time period had a part to play in that acceleration.

Super Bowl 19 - Dolphins majority White defense (7-8 White starters) collapsed and was clobbered by the significantly darker 49ers in an unexpected 38-16 blowout.

Super Bowl 20 - Bears majority black defense (3 White starters) utterly destroyed the Patriots in a 46-10 rout that lives in on NFL legend.

I can't help but wonder if these two games were a kind of death knell for White athletes in the caste non-approved positions, specifically White defensive players. The connection is there, a colossal failure of a mostly White defense was followed up immediately by the immense success of a mostly black defense. Something like that has to be noticed by the entire football world, from those who make a living out of the game to casual fans who tune in every once in a while.

What really brought this up in my mind was reading Bill Walsh's book, Building a Champion. He talks about that Dolphins defense. Maybe this is just me reading way too much into it, but some of it reads like thinly-veiled caste speak:





Am I reading too much into all this or is there something here? Both in Walsh's comments and in the idea of these games having a substantial impact on the development of the caste system. I really want to hear everyone's input on this.

The Patriots only had one starter who was White on their defense their middle linebacker also the Bears had a majority White roster and one White cornerback(caste stooge Jeff Fisher). The 49ers also had a majority White roster and had White skills players.

 

[footballenthusiast]

The Patriots only had one starter who was White on their defense their middle linebacker also the Bears had a majority White roster and one White cornerback(caste stooge Jeff Fisher). The 49ers also had a majority White roster and had White skills players.

Jeff Fisher's last season was 1984 so he wasn't on that Super Bowl team. And the 49ers were a darker team on defense with 4 White starters and an all black secondary. Conversely, the Dolphins had 2 White starting safeties in the Blackwood brothers.

 

[white is right]

Jeff Fisher's last season was 1984 so he wasn't on that Super Bowl team. And the 49ers were a darker team on defense with 4 White starters and an all black secondary. Conversely, the Dolphins had 2 White starting safeties in the Blackwood brothers.

Yes he was on the injured reserve that season. He really was a special teams player who was a reserve corner, I recall him returning punts for the Bears in the early years of Ditka.

 

[Don Wassall]

Am I reading too much into all this or is there something here? Both in Walsh's comments and in the idea of these games having a substantial impact on the development of the caste system. I really want to hear everyone's input on this.

You're reading too much into it. The '85 Bears had 10 White starters, 3 of them on defense. They had two backup White receivers and the fullback was Matt Suhey, who was heavily used despite the team having Walter Payton. From '83 through '85 Suhey averaged 870 yards of offense rushing and receiving. I don't think he's in our pinned Current and Past Fullbacks Who Should Have Been Starting Power Backs in the NFL but he should be. Mike Ditka coached teams were always among the relatively White friendliest in the NFL. After Suhey, Ditka used Brad Muster quite a bit, who also should have been a featured back but was heavily used for the time compared to how White RBs and "fullbacks" who were allowed to run were all but phased out by the rest of the league.

The '84 49ers also had 10 White starters with 4 of them on defense -- Jim Stuckey at right end, and a snow plow at LB -- Reynolds, Ellison and Bunz.

The '85 Patriots were one of the blacker teams in the league with just 6 White starters and just the one on D as White is Right mentioned. They did have Craig James, who ran for 1,227 yards, the last White RB to do so until Peyton Hillis's big season a full quarter century later.

I rooted for the Bears in that Super Bowl because they were clearly the "whiter" team. The 49ers-Dolphins was more of a draw, and as WIR said San Fran had a majority White roster, which was becoming a rarity by that time.

The Caste System was baked into the NFL cake well before those two Super Bowls. 1968 was the year everything began rapidly accelerating, culturally, racially and also in sports. By circa 1985-'86 defenses had become noticeably darker and there were few White receivers and running backs. Ironically enough, Cris Collinsworth was the last White WR drafted early (second round in '81) for a long time and as older ones like Largent and Watson faded they weren't replaced, while Collinsworth retired after just eight seasons.

I watched both of those Super Bowls with a discerning eye and noticed nothing different one way or the other as far as the Caste System goes.

 

[footballenthusiast]

You're reading too much into it. The '85 Bears had 10 White starters, 3 of them on defense. They had two backup White receivers and the fullback was Matt Suhey, who was heavily used despite the team having Walter Payton. From '83 through '85 Suhey averaged 870 yards of offense rushing and receiving. I don't think he's in our pinned Current and Past Fullbacks Who Should Have Been Starting Power Backs in the NFL but he should be. Mike Ditka coached teams were always among the relatively White friendliest in the NFL.

The '84 49ers also had 10 White starters with 4 of them on defense -- Jim Stuckey at right end, and a snow plow at LB -- Reynolds, Ellison and Bunz.

The '85 Patriots were one of the blacker teams in the league with just 6 White starters and just the one on D as White is Right mentioned. They did have Craig James, who ran for 1,227 yards, the last White RB to do so until Peyton Hillis's big season a full quarter century later.

I rooted for the Bears in that Super Bowl because they were clearly the "whiter" team. The 49ers-Dolphins was more of a draw, and as WIR said San Fran had a majority White roster, which was becoming a rarity at that time.

The Caste System was baked into the NFL cake well before those two Super Bowls. 1968 was the year everything began rapidly accelerating, culturally and also in sports. By circa 1985-'86 defenses had become noticeably darker and there were few White receivers and running backs. Ironically enough, Cris Collinsworth was the last White WR drafted early (second round in '81) for a long time and as older ones like Largent and Watson faded they weren't replaced, while Collinsworth retired after just eight seasons.

I watched both of those Super Bowls and noticed nothing different one way or the other as far as the Caste System goes.

Thanks for the info! Was really hoping you would chime in seeing as how you were there and can give a firsthand account of it all. The bolded section is very pertinent and essential. It's pretty easy to understand the caste system's workings in a vacuum but the history of it can be murky if you weren't there and have to analyze it after the fact.

 

[sport historian]

You're reading too much into it. The '85 Bears had 10 White starters, 3 of them on defense. They had two backup White receivers and the fullback was Matt Suhey, who was heavily used despite the team having Walter Payton. From '83 through '85 Suhey averaged 870 yards of offense rushing and receiving. I don't think he's in our pinned Current and Past Fullbacks Who Should Have Been Starting Power Backs in the NFL but he should be. Mike Ditka coached teams were always among the relatively White friendliest in the NFL. After Suhey, Ditka used Brad Muster quite a bit, who also should have been a featured back but was heavily used for the time compared to how White RBs and "fullbacks" who were allowed to run were all but phased out by the rest of the league.

The '84 49ers also had 10 White starters with 4 of them on defense -- Jim Stuckey at right end, and a snow plow at LB -- Reynolds, Ellison and Bunz.

The '85 Patriots were one of the blacker teams in the league with just 6 White starters and just the one on D as White is Right mentioned. They did have Craig James, who ran for 1,227 yards, the last White RB to do so until Peyton Hillis's big season a full quarter century later.

I rooted for the Bears in that Super Bowl because they were clearly the "whiter" team. The 49ers-Dolphins was more of a draw, and as WIR said San Fran had a majority White roster, which was becoming a rarity by that time.

The Caste System was baked into the NFL cake well before those two Super Bowls. 1968 was the year everything began rapidly accelerating, culturally, racially and also in sports. By circa 1985-'86 defenses had become noticeably darker and there were few White receivers and running backs. Ironically enough, Cris Collinsworth was the last White WR drafted early (second round in '81) for a long time and as older ones like Largent and Watson faded they weren't replaced, while Collinsworth retired after just eight seasons.

I watched both of those Super Bowls with a discerning eye and noticed nothing different one way or the other as far as the Caste System goes.

When Walter Payton contracted his fatal illness, Matt Suhey helped him. Payton said, "We're doing Brian's Song over again. This time the brother dies."

On the ESPN channels, the 30-30 series is on usually early in the day to fill time. They often have the one on the 1985 Bears.

 

[Don Wassall]

I neglected to mention that the 1984 49ers had WR Dwight Clark as one of their 10 starters. He finished his career with over 500 receptions and led the league with 60 in the strike shortened 1982 season, also totaling 913 yards that year in just 9 games. Clark wasn't a burner and at 6'4" and around 215 pounds would probably be beefed up into a tight end today if he got any opportunity at all to play in the NFL.

 

[Truthteller]

The consecutive Super Bowls, I always believed, accelerated the Caste System on defense where Buffalo vs. Dallas in the early 1990's. If you really care about this subject, look up "Brian Burwell". Burwell was a USA Today feature writer that often commented on racial issues -- always slanted 100% pro black and 100% anti-white.

After Dallas beat up a talented, majority white Buffalo squad in the SB he wrote a front page article claiming Dallas had a "unwritten rule" during the "Landry Era" that the Cowboys roster had to be half white. Burwell, also, claimed Jerry Jones and Jimmy J. (head coach) were to be given full credit for scrapping that "unwritten rule" and fielding a predominately black team -- which led to the Super Bowl wins. He insinuated the Bills and every other should do the same, if they want to win. By the way, it's very possible Burwell was falsely claiming Landry had this "unwritten rule"!

After those 2 Dallas wins vs. Buffalo, all the Cowboys top rivals went from starting 3, 4 or even 5 whites on defense (mostly front 7 players) in the early 1990's to starting 1 or zero whites. For example, 49ers under Walsh and Seifert used to regularly start 4 or 5 white defenders. When they won the SB in January of 1995, they had 1 white starting linebacker -- and only 1 white backup, I think.

Green Bay's 1996 team had zero white starters on defense and very few whites overall. Even the Mike Shanahan Broncos had just Bill Romanowski (and a Mexican LB) starting on defense when they won in 1997/98. Most of the other teams in the NFL rapidly followed suit.


P.S: I know football historians have often referenced the K.C. Chiefs of the latter 1960's and early 1970's as being "special" for their "courage" to field teams loaded with black stars. They won Super Bowl IV (4). That might be something worth researching, if you care enough about this. I know almost nothing about those teams.

 

[Don Wassall]

The consecutive Super Bowls, I always believed, accelerated the Caste System on defense where Buffalo vs. Dallas in the early 1990's. If you really care about this subject, look up "Brian Burwell". Burwell was a USA Today feature writer that often commented on racial issues -- always slanted 100% pro black and 100% anti-white.

After Dallas beat up a talented, majority white Buffalo squad in the SB he wrote a front page article claiming Dallas had a "unwritten rule" during the "Landry Era" that the Cowboys roster had to be half white. Burwell claimed Jerry Jones and Jimmy J. (head coach) were to be given full credit for scrapping that "unwritten rule" and fielding a predominately black team -- which led to the Super Bowl wins. He insinuated the Bills and every other should do the same, if they want to win. By the way, it's very possible Burwell was falsely claiming Landry had this "unwritten rule"!

After those 2 Dallas wins vs. Buffalo, all the Cowboys top rivals went from starting 3, 4 or even 5 whites on defense (mostly front 7 players) in the early 1990's to starting 1 or zero whites. For example, 49ers under Walsh and Seifert used to regularly start 4 or 5 white defenders. When they won the SB in January of 1995, they had 1 white starting linebacker -- and only 1 white backup, I think.

Green Bay's 1996 team had zero white starters on defense and very few whites overall. Even the Mike Shanahan Broncos had just Bill Romanowski (and a Mexican LB) starting on defense when they won in 1997/98. Most of the other teams in the NFL rapidly followed suit.


P.S: I know football historians have often referenced the K.C. Chiefs of the latter 1960's and early 1970's as being "special" for their "courage" to field teams loaded with black stars. They won Super Bowl IV (4). That might be something worth researching, if you care enough about this. I know almost nothing about those teams.

I remember a post you made about how dramatically the NFL Draft changed in 1990. The '89 draft had a number of Whites taken in the first round, kind of a last gasp old school type of draft in retrospect, but the '90 draft saw QB Jeff George taken first overall followed by nothing but blacks the rest of the round other than an o-lineman. That set the template for the NFL Draft ever since as far as the low number of Whites usually taken in the first round and the low number taken overall.

Bill Cowher was a Jimmy Johnson acolyte who took over the Steelers after the '91 season and turned that team much darker overnight, including demoting Merrill Hoge, the last White RB for a long time to lead his team in rushing. Like Johnson, Cowher had a lot of early success. In the mid-1980s the decline of White defenders along with WRs and RBs had become very noticeable; then beginning in the early '90s the league went very dark. Quarterback was still an overwhelmingly White position, but I would check box scores to see how the very few notable Whites at other positions were doing, like Ricky Proehl on offense and Bryce Paup on defense.

Defenses weren't quite as dark as they are now, but unlike now there were few White stars on that side of the ball. And no White starters at WR other than Proehl, who never hit the thousand yard receiving mark, and no running backs other than the occasional one like Gil Fennerty who started a few games for the Saints, did well and then promptly disappeared into the memory hole. Later in the '90s, Wayne Chrebet, Ed McCaffrey, Bill Schroeder and a few others started and broke the thousand yard barrier after a long drought, and the long, slow improvement when it comes to White receivers began. As I've written about numerous times, in the second half of the '99 season White receivers led by Patrick Jeffers broke out in a big way only to see that progress pretty much smashed to smithereens the following year.

The situation at WR, TE and RB is better today than in the '90s, and most of the Whites allowed to start on defense are stars or close to it. But the Caste System continues to relentlessly advance at quarterback and the offensive line. But given how many black QBs are struggling and how many sumos are lousy even while admitting some are very good, it's possible there can be a turnaround at those positions to some degree.

The decline of the black talent pool in the ghettos, an undeniable product of the deliberate destruction of the black family structure, continues to expose the declining quality of the NFL and I don't see how that can be changed. I believe the announcers are much more careful now not to engage in too much Caste-ese, and the number of fans catching on to the Caste System has grown though it is still too small in number to cause a sea change in awareness. I like to call it the Caste Football Effect.

 

[Truthteller]

Excellent points. Researching the 1989 draft, there were a lot whites drafted in the top 3 rounds. First round was almost half-white (14/30), adding in two white QB's selected in the supplemental draft that year (Walsh and Rosenbach). 1989 was also "historic" in terms of overall talent (white and black) -- quite a few went to the Hall-Of -Fame. Some of those rookie trading cards from 1989 are worth a small fortune.

Almost half in the top 3 rounds were white, with plenty of white linebackers and defensive ends. By 1990, there only 2 white first round picks. Jeff George, who some claim is Arab, and a center that went to the L.A. Rams. Things picked up in subsequent rounds in 1990, but not appreciably. The shift was sudden. One thing that has to be considered, is this coincided with "legendary" commish Pete Rozelle being replaced with Georgetown educated, Keith Olberman-esh liberal Paul Tagliabue.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/rounds/_/season/1989

As you noted, white RB's, WR's and DB's were already being phased out by 1989. And they were almost totally absent from the top 3 rounds of that 1989 draft. Exception, the "weird" case of Illinois native Don Beebe, who walked into Mike Ditka's office asking for a try-out (show-off his speed) in the mid-1980's. He had never gone to college and was working construction and Ditka told him to go to college and play. Any college. He took the advice and went to tiny Chadron State, then turned into a 3rd pick at like age 25?

But I really think, in reference to footballenthusiast's point, the Bills/Cowboys had a huge effect going forward. Perhaps the blackening of defenses would've happened anyway, even if the Bills had blown out the Cowboys in the Super Bowls. As you noted, the drafts were heading in that direction, anyway.

 

[footballenthusiast]

Whoa this turned into a really great thread! Thanks for all the info, guys. I will do some research on this topic, particularly on the late 60s and early 70s Chiefs. Speaking of that time period, one thing I seem to remember reading is that the Steelers under Chuck Noll began looking at HBCUs to draft players, and that the practice started in the 1969 draft with L.C. Greenwood. I can't remember if I read that on here or somewhere else. But I'll look into that too. Lots of research to do.

 

[Truthteller]

Whoa this turned into a really great thread! Thanks for all the info, guys. I will do some research on this topic, particularly on the late 60s and early 70s Chiefs. Speaking of that time period, one thing I seem to remember reading is that the Steelers under Chuck Noll began looking at HBCUs to draft players, and that the practice started in the 1969 draft with L.C. Greenwood. I can't remember if I read that on here or somewhere else. But I'll look into that too. Lots of research to do.

Chiefs were, also, profusely praised for "poaching HBCU" talent by historians. Not sure who it was, but read that on this site. Steelers and others would soon follow suit. I believe Art Shell, first black HC in NFL history, claimed most of the top black OL's during his era came from HBCU schools, because the "white schools" were only interested in "speed", when they were recruiting blacks in early 1970's and prior.

Here's a boxscore from that Super Bowl: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197001110kan.htm

*** Looks like Chiefs might have started only 2 or 3 whites on defense that day? I mostly guess (their race) based on their names. I don't know the majority of these players and have no desire to Google them. Only ones I know positively are those that went into coaching or broadcasting decades later. I know, to this day, blacks still have a special fondness for Willie Lanier, who some say was the first black middle linebacker of prominence in NFL. Middle linebacker, was always seen as the QB of defense -- hence it was deemed a position that requires extra brain-power?

*** When I did the research for the 100 yard rushing games by whites years ago, I looked up most the white RB's from 1970 and beyond. I recognize both Vikings RB's that day as white. I assume the Chiefs had all black RB's and WR's.

*** One of my favorite CF posters goes by the name "DwightmansBurden". He wrote the great Dolphins teams he grew up watching in the early 1970's started 10/11 whites on defense. So the black "thang" with the Chiefs didn't take hold for a while.

*** Looking at the stats, Joe Kapp, did not seem like a very good QB. He did have one fine season for the Vikings, but was probably a big reason they lost. Team had exiled Fran Tarkenton and it clearly hurt that day, I assume. Although, the Vikings would lose all 3 SB's with Tarkenton at the helm, so????

 

[Don Wassall]

Whoa this turned into a really great thread! Thanks for all the info, guys. I will do some research on this topic, particularly on the late 60s and early 70s Chiefs. Speaking of that time period, one thing I seem to remember reading is that the Steelers under Chuck Noll began looking at HBCUs to draft players, and that the practice started in the 1969 draft with L.C. Greenwood. I can't remember if I read that on here or somewhere else. But I'll look into that too. Lots of research to do.

The Steelers had one of the first black scouts, Bill Nunn, and he scoured the HBCUs for talent. L. C. Greenwood was indeed from one of them, as was Hall of Famer John Stallworth, drafted in 1974 as part of what was arguably the best draft ever by any NFL team. First round pick Lynn Swann, second round pick Jack Lambert, Stallworth in the fourth round and Mike Webster in the fifth round all made it to Canton, along with free agent safety Donnie Shell. Greenwood was taken in the 10th round in 1969, Chuck Noll's first draft. Joe Greene from small college North Texas was their first pick that year. So the HCBUs were tapped for talent, but the Dakotas, Montana, Minnesota, and many other places that produce lots of White talent no longer are (if they ever were).

 

[footballenthusiast]

Chiefs were, also, profusely praised for "poaching HBCU" talent by historians. Not sure who it was, but read that on this site. Steelers and other would soon follow suit. I believe Art Shell, first black HC in NFL history, claimed most of the top black OL's during his era came from HBCU schools, because the "white schools" were only interested in "speed", when they were recruiting blacks in early 1970's and prior.

Here's a boxscore from that Super Bowl: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197001110kan.htm

*** Looks like Chiefs might have started only 2 or 3 whites on defense that day? I mostly guess (their race) based on their names I don't know the majority of these players and have no desire to Google them. Only ones I know positively are those that went into coaching or broadcasting decades later. I know, to this day, blacks still have a special fondness for Willie Lanier, who some say was the first black middle linebacker of prominence in NFL. Middle linebacker, was always seen as the QB of defense -- hence it was deemed a position that requires extra brain-power?

*** When I did the research for the 100 yard rushing games by whites years ago, I looked up most the whites RB from 1970 and beyond. I recognize both Vikings RB's that day as white. I assume the Chiefs had all black RB's and WR's.

*** One of my favorite CF posters goes by the name "DwightmansBurden". He wrote the great Dolphins teams he grew up watching in the early 1970's started 10/11 whites on defense. So the black "thang" with the Chiefs didn't take hold for a while.

*** Looking at the stats, Joe Kapp, did not seem like a very good QB. He did have one fine season for the Vikings, but was probably a big reason they lost. Team had exiled Fran Tarkenton and it clearly hurt that day, I assume. Although, the Vikings would lose all 3 SB's with Tarkenton at the helm, so????

The Chiefs' defense started 3 White players: Jerry Mays, Jim Lynch, and Johnny Robinson. And yes, the Chiefs' starting RBs and WRs were black. They did have a snow plow OL, White TE, and of course Len Dawson at QB. So that puts the Chiefs at 10/22 White starters on the day. The Vikings' defense started 7 White players, which included an all White linebacking corps and a 3/4 White secondary. The offense started 8 White players (Kapp is half-Mexican). So that puts the Vikings at 15/22 White starters on the day.

Shula was apparently White-friendly on defense, first with the Colts in the 1960s and then with the Dolphins up until the mid-late 1980s. I do know that he drafted Eric Kumerow and John Bosa in the late 80s, but the overall composition of his rosters was darkening such that by the early 1990s he had gotten with the program and fielded an almost all black defense. I think the only White starter on those teams was John Offerdahl.

About 1 of those 3 SB loses, I recall Fran Tarkenton complaining that the Steelers cheated by taking anabolic steroids, specifically the offensive and defensive linemen. Apparently Jack Lambert and Jack Ham outright refused to take them. And if I'm not mistaken the Steelers weightlifting coach at that time had a history with olympic lifting and the steroid programs that were being used to enhance the performance of olympic lifters.

 

[HaywoodZarathustra]

The Chiefs in that Superbowl had white rookie Ed Podolak, though not sure if he did anything, although he became a much better running back than any Chief playing that game. The Vikings' problem during their four Superbowl years was having terrible running backs: Clint Jones, Brent McClanahan, Bill Brown, Dave Osborn, Robert Miller, Oscar Reed, Sammy Johnson, and the ill-used Chuck Foreman. Foreman was an excellent pass catching running back, but should never have been rb #1. They had no speed or size at running back like a Csonka, Riggins, van Eeghen, Franco Harris, or even a Marv Hubbard. I think only Clint Jones and johnny come lately Johnson averaged SLIGHTLY more than 4 yards a carry.

 

[HaywoodZarathustra]

Forgot to include the stupendous Ed Marinaro of Hill Street Blues fame. He was another better receiver than runner, and a willing blocker.