Why I am forced to vote for McCain

[Bart]

For the record, the United States no longer has an agency dedicated solely to the enforcement of immigration laws. INS was disbanded and merged with other agencies with the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.

And guess who runs that department. Unreal, isn't it?


That quote by Obama says it all. He has everything turned upside down inside out. Edited by: Bart

 

[Kaptain]

"But I just don't get how all you guys really think we can deport every illegal. The ammount of resources and time to do this would be incredible. Secure the boarder! And then let the ones here pay fines and begin a process to naturalization if they have a clean criminal record. Plus it just wouldn't work to deport them all anyway b/c most of them have families and sometimes kids that were born here!"

How have other countries today and throughout history control immigration? They did, so why do you think we can't? End birthright citizenship (it wasn't intended for illegals), end all entitlements for illegals including public education, severely punish employers of illegals (you know, like how they would punish you if you cheated on taxes), line the border with an armed national guard, and deport every stinking last one of them. That's how - other countries do it - common sense.

The resources and time we put into keeping these criminally inclined people far outways the costs of deporting them.

as a country, we are not going to deport every illegal already here. you would need armed force for that, and if you think the average american is going to be cool with watching armed national guards herd illegals into deportation camps, you are way off. the only opton is securing the border now and stop all future illegal immigration.

Really dude, we can't? Have we even come close to trying? So the mightest nation in the history of the world can't deport illegals? I guess that means you are for Amnesty and that explains how you voted. Who is the "average American" in your view anyway?

Let's see who is being more realistic. We'll try your approach: The borders are secured, however every illegal now knows that if he can somehow (by boat, Semi's, holes in security etc.) get here he will be rewarded with American citizenship or at the very least be allowed to stay and enjoy everything American taxpayers do. The surge of illegals will continue as a result and eventually the border guards will wonder what purpose they are serving. The idea of a secure border will eventually be dumped with the words "see I told you so" coming from LaRaza and Ted Kennedy. We gave it a shot and it just didn't work, besides America is a nation of immigrants a wonderful melting pot etc. Nice plan.

My plan: Most Americans will applaud deportations, while a small minority of Americans will vigorously oppose it(say about the number of illegals and relatives of illegals). We'll enforce the law and deport them anyway - over a period of time of course - it's called deportation by attrition. They will have no incentive to return. No citizenship, no entitlements, no jobs - no returning. Their countrymen will have no incentive to try to get in either. Border security will become a rather easy task. Any civil unrest from the initial deportations will be met with necessary force (easily achieved). We've already seen deportations in meat-packing raids and nothing more than a few protests happened. I think we can handle it. I'm cool with this plan.

you misunderstand me, the logistics are a breeze, what i'm talking about is the tolerance of most americans. as soon as images of INS raids deporting women holding babies hit CNN, the deportation would stop and people would protest the whole process as a Gestapo-like crime against humanity.

now americans will probably tolerate a commitment to secure the border. i could see americans buying into that if it was presented to them with an emphasis on counterring the terrorist threat, or stemming the flow of possible criminals into the country, or helping win the war against drugs. that's something americans could tolerate. armed guardsmen...not so much. too Kent State ish.

its neat to talk about possible scenarios for mass deportations, but i think its important to be cogniscent of the fact that most americans will not tolerate the idea of armed national guardsmen (many of which are of latino descent) lining up school buses to deport all illegals, including the old ones, the babies, the women, the frail ones, etc etc. thats just not going to happen. before you type anything keep in mind that you live in a country that elected a black man, with a kenyan dad, and a muslim name. so, lets maybe try to stick within the parameters of 'reality' while formulating plans for dealing with illegals.

dude, way to bring up McCain again. i don't know how to dumb this down anymore than i already have but here goes....you harp on McCain more than any guy here. i voted for the guy bc in a two man race, if one guy is white and the other is black...i'm always gonna go with the white guy. 99.99999999999% of the time anytime. thats it. thats the only reason i voted for him. i get that you like Obama better than McCain, apparently most americans share your point of view. and i am cool with that man. i think you went 3rd party right? thats great, kudos to you. ive already stated how i feel about it so, unlike you, i'm not trying to harp on it forever. let it go man. especially if you're gonna comedown on guys who even mention McCain. write this down so you wont have to harp on it anymore.

Well dude, I remember your support for McCain and his immigration stance. I remember you calling me a "sock puppet for Olberman" and accused me of campaigning for McCain. Totally ridiculous that you act so offended now. You do know that most white nationalist leaders such as David Duke, Lew Rockwell, etc. did see McCain as the most evil of the two choices. I'm not exactly alone on my opinion.

Now as for this topic. I'll try to keep it dumbed down and not talk over your head. The American people would absolutely tolerate deportation. In fact, they would applaud it. However, our bought and paid for politicians and our media would not. Therefore, it won't happen - we all know that just as we know the NFL won't have a bunch of white running backs anytime soon. This doesn't mean we should just lay down and compromise our opinions.

As for not being able to deport some because they have families or their kids were born here. I think if pressed we could make Mexico take them back into their citizenship. What do other people do who are on a vacation here and they have an early birth? Do their families now have to stay here? Of course not. They go back to their countries and their kids are citizens of their native countries.

Why are Europeans - kids, families, whatever - deported when illegal and not illegal Mexicans? Why is European immigration severely restricted while Mexican legal immigration is almost unrestricted? And yet we're to believe that white people will be offended by us deporting Mexicans, but not Europeans. I don't think so.

 

[johnnyboy]

"But I just don't get how all you guys really think we can deport every illegal. The ammount of resources and time to do this would be incredible. Secure the boarder! And then let the ones here pay fines and begin a process to naturalization if they have a clean criminal record. Plus it just wouldn't work to deport them all anyway b/c most of them have families and sometimes kids that were born here!"

How have other countries today and throughout history control immigration? They did, so why do you think we can't? End birthright citizenship (it wasn't intended for illegals), end all entitlements for illegals including public education, severely punish employers of illegals (you know, like how they would punish you if you cheated on taxes), line the border with an armed national guard, and deport every stinking last one of them. That's how - other countries do it - common sense.

The resources and time we put into keeping these criminally inclined people far outways the costs of deporting them.

as a country, we are not going to deport every illegal already here. you would need armed force for that, and if you think the average american is going to be cool with watching armed national guards herd illegals into deportation camps, you are way off. the only opton is securing the border now and stop all future illegal immigration.

Really dude, we can't? Have we even come close to trying? So the mightest nation in the history of the world can't deport illegals? I guess that means you are for Amnesty and that explains how you voted. Who is the "average American" in your view anyway?

Let's see who is being more realistic. We'll try your approach: The borders are secured, however every illegal now knows that if he can somehow (by boat, Semi's, holes in security etc.) get here he will be rewarded with American citizenship or at the very least be allowed to stay and enjoy everything American taxpayers do. The surge of illegals will continue as a result and eventually the border guards will wonder what purpose they are serving. The idea of a secure border will eventually be dumped with the words "see I told you so" coming from LaRaza and Ted Kennedy. We gave it a shot and it just didn't work, besides America is a nation of immigrants a wonderful melting pot etc. Nice plan.

My plan: Most Americans will applaud deportations, while a small minority of Americans will vigorously oppose it(say about the number of illegals and relatives of illegals). We'll enforce the law and deport them anyway - over a period of time of course - it's called deportation by attrition. They will have no incentive to return. No citizenship, no entitlements, no jobs - no returning. Their countrymen will have no incentive to try to get in either. Border security will become a rather easy task. Any civil unrest from the initial deportations will be met with necessary force (easily achieved). We've already seen deportations in meat-packing raids and nothing more than a few protests happened. I think we can handle it. I'm cool with this plan.

you misunderstand me, the logistics are a breeze, what i'm talking about is the tolerance of most americans. as soon as images of INS raids deporting women holding babies hit CNN, the deportation would stop and people would protest the whole process as a Gestapo-like crime against humanity.

now americans will probably tolerate a commitment to secure the border. i could see americans buying into that if it was presented to them with an emphasis on counterring the terrorist threat, or stemming the flow of possible criminals into the country, or helping win the war against drugs. that's something americans could tolerate. armed guardsmen...not so much. too Kent State ish.

its neat to talk about possible scenarios for mass deportations, but i think its important to be cogniscent of the fact that most americans will not tolerate the idea of armed national guardsmen (many of which are of latino descent) lining up school buses to deport all illegals, including the old ones, the babies, the women, the frail ones, etc etc. thats just not going to happen. before you type anything keep in mind that you live in a country that elected a black man, with a kenyan dad, and a muslim name. so, lets maybe try to stick within the parameters of 'reality' while formulating plans for dealing with illegals.

dude, way to bring up McCain again. i don't know how to dumb this down anymore than i already have but here goes....you harp on McCain more than any guy here. i voted for the guy bc in a two man race, if one guy is white and the other is black...i'm always gonna go with the white guy. 99.99999999999% of the time anytime. thats it. thats the only reason i voted for him. i get that you like Obama better than McCain, apparently most americans share your point of view. and i am cool with that man. i think you went 3rd party right? thats great, kudos to you. ive already stated how i feel about it so, unlike you, i'm not trying to harp on it forever. let it go man. especially if you're gonna comedown on guys who even mention McCain. write this down so you wont have to harp on it anymore.

Well dude, I remember your support for McCain and his immigration stance. I remember you calling me a "sock puppet for Olberman" and accused me of campaigning for McCain. Totally ridiculous that you act so offended now. You do know that most white nationalist leaders such as David Duke, Lew Rockwell, etc. did see McCain as the most evil of the two choices. I'm not exactly alone on my opinion.

Now as for this topic. I'll try to keep it dumbed down and not talk over your head. The American people would absolutely tolerate deportation. In fact, they would applaud it. However, our bought and paid for politicians and our media would not. Therefore, it won't happen - we all know that just as we know the NFL won't have a bunch of white running backs anytime soon. This doesn't mean we should just lay down and compromise our opinions.

As for not being able to deport some because they have families or their kids were born here. I think if pressed we could make Mexico take them back into their citizenship. What do other people do who are on a vacation here and they have an early birth? Do their families now have to stay here? Of course not. They go back to their countries and their kids are citizens of their native countries.

Why are Europeans - kids, families, whatever - deported when illegal and not illegal Mexicans? Why is European immigration severely restricted while Mexican legal immigration is almost unrestricted? And yet we're to believe that white people will be offended by us deporting Mexicans, but not Europeans. I don't think so.

i accused you of campaigning for Obama, not McCain.

if your supposed "white national leader" espouses voting for Obama then i would advise you to find a new white nationalist leader to listen to.

way to bring up McCain yet again. its bad enough that we have a black president elect now, but do you really have to gloat in it?

its not about laying down and compromising your position. i'm simply talking about maybe formulating a position based on what is the american reality. i say close the borders, and when appealing for closing the borders, using a non racial based argument in the hopes of securing bipartisan national support for a secure border. your talk of mass deportations is a fantasy at best. why not advocate for building a giant space shuttle and shooting all illegal immigrants to the moon. its an equally absurd idea, and it has a little more flair than your "school bus" proposition.

are you serious when you say that mexican illegals aren't deported? dude, i live in california, believe me there are deportations here. the problem isn't that there aren't enough deportations, the problem is that the border isn't secure. it's like trying to shovel water out of a sinking ship. 2 steps forward 3 steps back. as far as european illegal immigration being more restricted the answer is a matter of simple geography. its easy to deny someone entry to your country when THEY HAVE TO FLY HERE, OVER THE ATLANTIC OCEAN, ON A COMMERCIAL AIRLINER. its a lot harder to crack down on illegals that are ABLE TO SIMPLY WALK OVER/HOP OVER A BORDER THAT "EXISTS" ONLY IN THE ACADEMIC SENSE OF THE WORD. (for further explanation, see world map)

i know i can't get you to understand anything i'm saying. i know you're going to keep harping on McCain and ignoring the fact that i only voted for him bc he's white and Obama is black. i know that if you only had a choice between Obama and McCain you would of voted for the black guy. i get that. i also get that your going to keep bringing up my McCain vote and at the same time throw a fit when anybody else dares mention voting for McCain. i've made my peace with your role here. have at it. if you want to keep talking about McCain, keep doing so, trust me i understand the nature of the internet. i wont get offended.

my advice to you, read and then reread White Shogun's post. study the Obama quote then wake up and smell the coffee.

cheers.

PS- do i make sense to anybody here. at this point i am starting to wonder if maybe my position is way off. i know everyone has there own point of view and i respect that but my conversation with Kpt Poop makes me think that maybe i'm not making any sense. any input, positive or negative would be appreciated.

PPS- I just finished watching the beat down of Jones by Calzaghe. i'll be smiling for the rest of the month!!! ear to f**king ear. Edited by: johnnyboy

 

[Kaptain]

Yes, I meant "Obama". Same difference. Check my posts I didn't like either and you purposely misinterpret everything I write as "pro-Obama". What a joke.

Nowhere did I say WN leaders "espouses" voting for Obama. I think all of the prominent ones condoned voting third party. Why should I find new WN leaders? Because they disagree with you? You know better? Fat chance.

Who's gloating? As a somewhat new poster here, you are clearly embarrassing yourself by trying to tell others these tall tales.

BTW, where do you stand on our Middle East wars? I find most posters that are ardently Pro-McCain also support the war - a minority view on this board and in the WN movement.

Dude, your arguements sound exactly like the pro-amnesty crowd and the pro-immigration crowd. Any deportations that have been done are simply window-dressings - no serious attempts. The word "Mass" deportations is meant to confuse everyone into thinking that overnight the secret police have to nab children out of their beds. Deportation through attrition absolutely can happen, but not with people like you shaping public opinion.

As I've gone through in previous posts, if you don't deport them then you can't realistically secure the border. The incentive needs to disappear as well as border security needing to happen. This isn't rocket science and frankly I don't see how you aren't getting it. Again it seems like I'm arguing with someone that is pro-immigration - they use the exact same arguements that you do.

Edited by: Kaptain Poop

 

[Menelik]

Gentlemen...don't let the election cause infighting between us. This is just the internet remember?

 

[johnnyboy]

Gentlemen...don't let the election cause infighting between us. This is just the internet remember?

haha. thanks Menelik. i needed that. lately i've been short tempered. it's been a tough month man. i din't think Obama's victory would have such an effect on me, but it has. i keep thinking that something will happen and invalidate his election. i keep hoping for a miracle. but until that miracle comes, there's no denying, "there's something rotten in the state of Denmark"

 

[johnnyboy]

Yes, I meant "Obama". Same difference. Check my posts I didn't like either and you purposely misinterpret everything I write as "pro-Obama". What a joke.

Nowhere did I say WN leaders "espouses" voting for Obama. I think all of the prominent ones condoned voting third party. Why should I find new WN leaders? Because they disagree with you? You know better? Fat chance.

Who's gloating? As a somewhat new poster here, you are clearly embarrassing yourself by trying to tell others these tall tales.

BTW, where do you stand on our Middle East wars? I find most posters that are ardently Pro-McCain also support the war - a minority view on this board and in the WN movement.

Dude, your arguements sound exactly like the pro-amnesty crowd and the pro-immigration crowd. Any deportations that have been done are simply window-dressings - no serious attempts. The word "Mass" deportations is meant to confuse everyone into thinking that overnight the secret police have to nab children out of their beds. Deportation through attrition absolutely can happen, but not with people like you shaping public opinion.

As I've gone through in previous posts, if you don't deport them then you can't realistically secure the border. The incentive needs to disappear as well as border security needing to happen. This isn't rocket science and frankly I don't see how you aren't getting it. Again it seems like I'm arguing with someone that is pro-immigration - they use the exact same arguements that you do.

no one on this entire website is against deporting illegals. man you're not even trying anymore.

 

[Westside]

Johnnyboy, when debating you make perfect, logical sense. By the way we were wondering what happeaned to you over at the boxing forum. Joe's domination of RJJ was a great and needed victory for us. WA was hooking us with streams to view the fight one after another. It seems that the PPV companies would close them down, once morons bloggers kept running their perverbial mouths.

Anyways, we were able to see the fight until the 8th round. It was great seeing WA plucking these stream site on the internet.

 

[johnnyboy]

Johnnyboy, when debating you make perfect, logical sense. By the way we were wondering what happeaned to you over at the boxing forum. Joe's domination of RJJ was a great and needed victory for us. WA was hooking us with streams to view the fight one after another. It seems that the PPV companies would close them down, once morons bloggers kept running their perverbial mouths.

Anyways, we were able to see the fight until the 8th round. It was great seeing WA plucking these stream site on the internet.

thanks for your kind words Westside. i payed for the PPV fight but it wasn't bad bc 12 of us split the fee. man it was a great fight. i just wish Joe would have knocked him out. doesn't matter though, this was a crowning achievement for him and he deserves all the credit.

cheers man.