west african are faster on avarage

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Lastly, that is a good point looking back on the history of 100 meters. When I did research I noticed that in the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 60s and even into the 70s, the black and white times were virtually even (although black participation rates were less than now in the 1930s and 40s although Jesse Owens was famous). Then in the 1980s, blacks started to pull ahead.

i'd like to see the evidence that you have apparently seen in order to draw this bold conclusion, please.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

JC, I should have said "I think" rather than stating it as fact. I do think though that before the civil rights movement that poor blacks had less opportunities in pursuing sports in the days of segregation and that even includes track somewhat. Heck, in baseball in the 30s, blacks were relegated to the Negro leagues and forbidden to play in MLB. I ask, who here is overly convinced that blacks had equal access to the best coaches before the 1960s, training methods and any financial opportunities in most sports comparative to today that make black culture obsessed with making it professionally in sports etc. Add to this the mindset amongst blacks- before the current pop culture era where black culture and morals in America have declined- (due to breakdown of the family, "gangster rap culture" values and addiction problems) that more blacks dreamed of achieving academically. Now there is a culture problem with inner city blacks that academic achievement is a nerdy white thing and some even frown upon students that put their nose to the grindstone studying in favour of being obsessed to become a professional athlete.

I could be wrong, but I still think that the 5 most elite black times would be about 0.15 seconds faster over 100 meters than the top 5 white times in a given year without steroids, brainwashing and lack of participation problems for whites. This doesn't make blacks "overall" better athletes JC, in fact if I had to pick, I'd give the edge to whites. I think elite whites are better at both American and European football too, I'd give the edge to elite blacks in basketball. Just my two cents JC and I admit this isn't fact, but simply an opinion.

 

[white lightning]

Please take the time to read this article guys. It's a very good read and again it backs up what I have been saying for years.

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/2007/08/06/white-sprinters/

 

[white lightning]

Here is a black Olympic Coach Brook Johnson admitting there is racism against whites in sprinting!

http://edition.cnn.com/2000/books/beginnings/01/31/taboo/Edited by: white lightning

 

[white lightning]

I have read this book by Jon Entine. It's called "Taboo". While the book is pure garbage, I just wanted to point out what a Olympic Coach had to say about this subject. I have hear many other coach's from around the country say the same thing. Even Wariners long time Coach Clyde Hart used to be a sprinter. He has said countless times that your skin color has nothing to do with running fast. Hart says it's a mental thing and a numbers thing. I couldn't agree more.

 

[white lightning]

http://www.jonmulkeen.com/

 

[white lightning]

Here is a little clip from the 1997 S.I. Article "What Ever Happened to the White Athlete"?


On the other hand, what the SI article said most tellingly was that while young whites admire black athletic figures, they are afraid to play sports that blacks dominate, another example of whites leaving the neighborhood when blacks move in. This white "double-consciousness"--to admire blacks for their skills while fearing their presence in a situation where blacks might predominate--is a modern-day reflection of the contradiction, historically, that has produced our racially stratified society. To be white can be partly defined as not only the fear of not being white but the fear of being at the mercy of those who are not white. Whiteness and blackness in this respect cease to be identities and become the personifications not of stereotypes alone but of taboos, of prohibitions. Sports, like all of popular culture, become the theater where the taboos are simultaneously smashed and reinforced, where one is liberated from them while conforming to them. Sports are not an idealization of ourselves but a reflection.

 

[white lightning]

This is called "White Flight" and sports has been affected just like the neighborhoods have. Again I ask you guys, do you really think whites are not steered away from the sprints the same way they are from cornerback and running back in football? Think about it. Give me more numbers across the globe and you will see sub 10's and 20's from white sprinters on a normal basis! I could post on this subject all day but sadly some would still deny the evidence.

 

[white lightning]

http://www.sprintstrong.com/

Again we see here with the analogy of the video of the "4 minute mile". If you don't believe something is possible, you are not likely to acheive it. Exactly what I've been saying forever.

 

[white lightning]

Another fine article on the subject.

http://racehist.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-have-white-sprinters-stagnated.html

 

[white lightning]

<a href="http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0416.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0416.htm



</A>

 

[white lightning]

Another thing to prove my theory. There have been many articles discussing older white males dominating older black males. If fact from 45 or 50 years on up, the whites that compete in Masters Track hold all of the world records in the 100 &amp; 200 meters! Why is that? For one that were not brain washed back in those days like whites have been for the last three to four decades. The mental apsect of sprinting is just as important as the physical aspect. Here is a list of the world record holders in the sprints for their age groups. From 50 on up the whites destroy the black sprinters.

http://www.world-masters-athletics.org/records/outdoor-men

 

[Observer]

JC, I should have said "I think" rather than stating it as fact. I do think though that before the civil rights movement that poor blacks had less opportunities in pursuing sports in the days of segregation and that even includes track somewhat. Heck, in baseball in the 30s, blacks were relegated to the Negro leagues and forbidden to play in MLB. I ask, who here is overly convinced that blacks had equal access to the best coaches before the 1960s,

White rural America still doesn't have many of these opportunities; and even if they did, a bunch of these kids are working.

I would suppose there have been studies done on "accessibility" through these different time periods.

 

[white lightning]

Here's a video of Sime racing Hary: http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/215227/887507

Note the info on Hary's reaction time and later on when they show his fantastically fast first, second, third steps.

You also can't help but notice the lack of trash talk from Sim - then again, here's a sprinter who went on to become a top tier ophthalmologist. Don't see much of that these days.

I should add that going into the '60 Games, the bolshevik run press was pushing for Ray Norton, the noble black, against the evil German Hary, who was somehow cheating. Norton ended up the goat of the games, being shut out (after the press hyped the "negro" as the sure winner in the 100/200) and then fouling up the US 4 x 100 meter team. They were disqualified because Norton screwed up his exchange. A harbinger of things to come for afflete dominated relay teams from the US. Yes, he's the same Norton who played a few seasons for the SF 49'ers.

As a side note, if you watch films of Dave Sime and another top notch white sprinter, Bobby Morrow (1956 100/200 champ with Sime injured before the games) you can't help but notice how smooth they both are. So much for whites being awkward.

Here's one more point on Sime: He went to Duke on a baseball scholarship - he had never run track in his life until college! His speed was noticed right away, the track coaches begged to have him come out and run, and in his first ever meet he ran the 100 yards in 9.6. The record at the time was 9.3. Probably no coach today would ever pull some fast white kid aside, from another sport, and see him as a top sprinter. That's how far we've sunk. Once can't help but wonder how many Simes, Morrows, Harys, Wariners and more have been overlooked or never even took up the sport at all.

Why? It's lack of interest, after decades of brainwashing. Up through 1967, white sprinters in the US were not considered out of the ordinary. But the people now in charge kicked off their revolution with the US public completely unaware, and they went to town on many aspects of US culture, including sports, via their media control. Way back when I can remember mentioning 1968 as the turning point - as it seemed to me after much reading (I was a little kid in '68, not exactly interested in politics) and Don chimed in with the info that 1968 was in fact the worst and bloodiest, the most vicious year of the whole bolshevik revolution that most people didn't realize was happening. Sports Illustrated, when you thumb through old issues, literally turned on a dime, going from even handed stories and positive news on white athletes, to suddenly stating the superiority of blacks in all sports, not just certain areas. Hyping American blacks over all others.

Despite all the 'scientific' probing, not one bit of work has shown that whites can't sprint. All that has been shown is that different populations, like blacks, might have a higher incidence of certain traits that will allow them to do well in a particular event. But that doesn't mean other cannot compete at the same level.

Anything that has been discovered to be in whites' favor is not mentioned, as in the fact that whites have faster reactions on average than blacks. Ignored by the MSM. Anything positive in favor of whites is never to be mentioned, anything remotely positive in favor of blacks and most non-whites is exaggerated.

 

[white lightning]

Here are some American 100/200 sprinters not to be forgotten from the 30's to the 70's.

Frank Wykoff
George Simpson
Robert Packard
Sam Stoller
Perrin Walker
Clyde Jeffrey
Hal Davis
Payton Jordan
Jack Weiershauser
Mel Patton
Donald Campbell
Donald Anderson
Charles Parker
Chuck Peters
Lindy Remigino
Dean Smith
Jim Gathers
Thane Baker
Charles Thomas
Bobby Morrow
Dave Sime
John Haines
Dick Blair
Bill Woodhouse
Tom Jones
Earl Horner
Gerry Ashworth
Darel Newman
Fred Kuller
Larry Questad
Jerry Bright
Ben Vaughn
Mark Lutz

 

[Deadlift]

Here is a little clip from the 1997 S.I. Article "What Ever Happened to the White Athlete"?
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>On the other hand, what the SI article said most tellingly was that while young whites admire black athletic figures, they are afraid to play sports that blacks dominate, another example of whites leaving the neighborhood when blacks move in. This white "double-consciousness"--to admire blacks for their skills while fearing their presence in a situation where blacks might predominate--is a modern-day reflection of the contradiction, historically, that has produced our racially stratified society. To be white can be partly defined as not only the fear of not being white but the fear of being at the mercy of those who are not white. Whiteness and blackness in this respect cease to be identities and become the personifications not of stereotypes alone but of taboos, of prohibitions. Sports, like all of popular culture, become the theater where the taboos are simultaneously smashed and reinforced, where one is liberated from them while conforming to them. Sports are not an idealization of ourselves but a reflection.</font></div>

To me, it sounds like he's not just saying that Whites might not want to be on a coal-black team (high school & college), but that the blacks are "more skilled" and "fearsome" anyways....

In my view, there aren't many White kids that want to go to "Thug U" as the program currently stands now -- that being uber-ghetto... but MANY White athletes do WANT to go to an FBS program, rather than get "forced-down" to Division 2 or 3. I mean, come on!


And, don't forget, there are many White athletes from Whiter states, that are on Whiter high school teams, but what can they do when their local FBS (college) program is enfatuated with recruiting/importing negroes from Texas, Florida, Georgia, the JC ranks, etc?? The Idaho Vandals just had a short, slow-footed, super-obese, negro left tackle! That's one White kid, from the Northwest, that got screwed right there. It's extreme pandering, and to someone that has no interest in trying to be in good physical condition.

There's a Caste System!! DUHHH! At this site, we always talk about talented White athletes that WANT to be in the NFL/NBA, but they get cut over-and-over again.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Tough, i think white lightning answered your questions pretty well.

sinceyou brought up some other questions about coaching, training methods, and financial opportunities before the 60s ... i'll try and answer your questions with questions.

1) if they are so much faster than White kids, why do blacks need White coaches totrain them? and why aren't black coaches good enough to do the job? isn't that racist?

2) what training methods existed in the 40s and 50s that helped Whites but not blacks, when blacks were setting records back in the 30s? besides, it's not like Whites were in some fancy high-tech training facility. they were running on dirt tracks, too.

3) if i've readcorrectly, all the aforementioned White sprinters were running part-time as amateurs. so they received no financialcompensation whatsoever. how, then, does lack of financial rewards for blacks play a negative role? it obviously doesn't.

 

[white lightning]

Thanks Jimmy. As Jimmy Chitwood told me the other day, if someone repeats a lie long enough, it becomes the truth or is perceived to be the truth.

According to some peoples logic, Lemaitre should just quit track. He has no chance due to the color of his skin. Thank God he doesn't believe that way like so many brain washed people in this country and around the world. What an insult to Christophe and to the many white sprinters that train their ass off and go out there and compete. It sure would be an asset if more people would believe in them and encourage them. I have heard some sprinters say that even their own family had doubts about their ability and tried to discourage them from becoming a sprinter!

So in the U.S. we have over 63% of the country being of european ancestry while 13% of blacks of african ancestry. Are you going to tell me that with 5 times as many prosepective athletes that none of them could become very talented sprinters? It's a joke. We may never see the numbers necessary to prove my point but that doesn't change the fact that whites always have been able to and will continue to be able to compete.

Just for the record. At the moment Lemaitrehas the fastest times in the 100 &amp; 200 in all ofEurope. There are alot of black sprinters inEurope yethe has beaten every single one overboth distances. Heis tied for the 6th fastest 100 meters time in the world this year! He has the 7th fastest 200 meters time and he rarely runs that event. Oh but I forgot, we can't compete because of our skin color! What a joke!Edited by: white lightning

 

[Observer]

white lightning, you're a great guy and really keep this section of the forum going, but please get some rest!!
If Pickering suddenly drops a killer time, you're going to have a stroke -- and then we won't have you anymore!

 

[manor777]

Regardless what anyone says, there is a definite genetic advantage(even if it is small) comparing blacks to whites when it comes to speed. I have done my own projects over this same type of study and people always get the same results, EXAMPLE: http://run-down.com/guests/je_black_athletes_p2.php<div>Not that whites CANT run fast, but they are less likely to possess the genes needed and even if they do they tend to not have them in the quantity that blacks have them. You simply cant argue with genetic differences. The same reason blacks have the edge in sprinting is the same reason whites have the edge in swimming. Im also aware that there is a slight stigma for whites to compete in sprinting but a stigma alone simply cant account for the sheer dominance blacks have over whites. I read a post earlier by someone on here about how whites dont want to compete in sprints because they think they cant keep up with their black counterparts. This may be slightly true, but people tend to pursue things they are good at. If whites were equal in speed as blacks then this wouldnt be the case because they would realize how good they are at it and pursue it and thus the stigma wouldnt exist. Byram was a stand out because he had always been fast, even in middle school, so its no surprise that he eventually pursued a career in sprinting. Now please dont take my post the wrong way. Im not saying whites cant run with blacks, im just saying there is factual hard evidence that supports whites not being as fast as blacks in general.</div>

 

[mastermulti]

lots of us here hold to this point of view.

The key here is perspective. Just because someone is superior at sprinting or superior at swimming or superior at chess..... these gifts don't point to actually BEING superior. I think many people seem to worry that being really good at something is a pointer to our intrinsic worth (which is nuts!).

"Viva la difference" I say. We've all developed the way we have due to generations of adaptation to the particular environments our forebears had to cope with.

 

[waterbed]

there is a lot of difference and geograhical distance between east and west africa, europe is much smaller and there have been more mixing between tribes.A dutch professor said that he thinked that whites are because of this good overall but less pure sprinter or pure long distances types most of the time.

 

[jaxvid]

Regardless what anyone says, there is a definite genetic advantage(even if it is small) comparing blacks to whites when it comes to speed. I have done my own projects over this same type of study and people always get the same results, EXAMPLE: http://run-down.com/guests/je_black_athletes_p2.php<div>Not that whites CANT run fast, but they are less likely to possess the genes needed and even if they do they tend to not have them in the quantity that blacks have them. You simply cant argue with genetic differences. The same reason blacks have the edge in sprinting is the same reason whites have the edge in swimming. Im also aware that there is a slight stigma for whites to compete in sprinting but a stigma alone simply cant account for the sheer dominance blacks have over whites. I read a post earlier by someone on here about how whites dont want to compete in sprints because they think they cant keep up with their black counterparts. This may be slightly true, but people tend to pursue things they are good at. If whites were equal in speed as blacks then this wouldnt be the case because they would realize how good they are at it and pursue it and thus the stigma wouldnt exist. Byram was a stand out because he had always been fast, even in middle school, so its no surprise that he eventually pursued a career in sprinting. Now please dont take my post the wrong way. Im not saying whites cant run with blacks, im just saying there is factual hard evidence that supports whites not being as fast as blacks in general. </div>

The problem with your post is that you are only talking about "small advantage" and "in general". Olympic track athletes aren't at the peak of the bell curve, they are freaks and exceptions. Any "slight" genetic advantage would be nearly invisible at the extremes. Some "slight" advantage would not incur any advantage amongst a black and white person at the extremely fast ends of the spectrum. Slight genetic advantages do not increase as you move towards the high end of the scale. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Deadlift]

I'm faster than Aunt Jemima!

She said, "You fast, for a White boy. Let's go play with some syrup."

 

[white lightning]

Like jaxvid said, at the edge of the bell curve, it is pretty much equal. If the advantage was .15 on up, why would they need to take steroids as much as they do. I know they can make more money but running faster but the use is so wide spread that is has really hurt the image of the sport.

I still believe that it is possible for white sprinters to not only compete but to set world records. We need more numbers which correlates to more elite white sprinters in the starting blocks. To think with all of the hundreds of millons of whites world wide that there are not many more Lemaitre types is just crazy. Just my opinion.