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White Shogun
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My test for whether a person is white or black is what happens when that guy walks through South Central. Goings, Kidd, and Hoger are probably the only three of that group who would pass the 'cracker' test, based on appearance only. The rest of those guys would definitely be "white boys" to the blacks, even if your last name is "Fujita."
A person of "Hispanic" ancestry can be white, black, or mestizo, well, even Asian, as we've discussed on this forum before. I know plenty of Gonzalez' and Garcias who are fair skinned, or have green eyes, etc. Surnames do not determine race (see McNabb, Culpepper, et al).
Do you consider any of the men who's pics you posted to be 'white?' Or of those who's pics I posted? Not even the beloved Jack Dempsey? Do you consider Slavic people to be 'white?' I listed the two men in my post whom I think are white; what about you?
As for Bloom and Co. there are plenty of "Jews" of European stock everywhere. I personally know of Jews with red hair and green eyes, brown hair and blue eyes, and so on. What are they?
I think splitting hairs over who is 'white' is detrimental to bringing down the caste system and fighting for equal rights for whites in the business and social climate we find in today's America. How you see yourself is one thing, how others see you may be totally different.
And one more thing:
Nick Goings is one ugly mo-fo.
A person of "Hispanic" ancestry can be white, black, or mestizo, well, even Asian, as we've discussed on this forum before. I know plenty of Gonzalez' and Garcias who are fair skinned, or have green eyes, etc. Surnames do not determine race (see McNabb, Culpepper, et al).
Do you consider any of the men who's pics you posted to be 'white?' Or of those who's pics I posted? Not even the beloved Jack Dempsey? Do you consider Slavic people to be 'white?' I listed the two men in my post whom I think are white; what about you?
As for Bloom and Co. there are plenty of "Jews" of European stock everywhere. I personally know of Jews with red hair and green eyes, brown hair and blue eyes, and so on. What are they?
I think splitting hairs over who is 'white' is detrimental to bringing down the caste system and fighting for equal rights for whites in the business and social climate we find in today's America. How you see yourself is one thing, how others see you may be totally different.
And one more thing:
Nick Goings is one ugly mo-fo.
Scott Fujita is white. He was adopted by an Asian family, but it's interesting that some might look at his picture and see a little "oriental" simply because of his name.
White people come in different shades and facial characteristics. Having brown hair or brown eyes or darker skin doesn't make one the least bit non-white imo. If whites are ever going to unite to defend their rights and heritage -- and their right to live -- it's going to have to be on a broad basis. I like and admire all the different kinds of people who make up the white race.
White people come in different shades and facial characteristics. Having brown hair or brown eyes or darker skin doesn't make one the least bit non-white imo. If whites are ever going to unite to defend their rights and heritage -- and their right to live -- it's going to have to be on a broad basis. I like and admire all the different kinds of people who make up the white race.
White Shogun said:
So you think that blacks wouldn't differentiate between whites and mestizos? Ginobili and Lowell could definitely pass as "Latino," in the broad definition of the word.
White Shogun said:
I know, but the issue is certainty. Are you certain that Lowell and Gonzalez are white? And what does the average sports fan think?
White Shogun said:
I don't know how many of them are 100% white. That's the point. Obviously, Fujita's white; I didn't know he was adopted. Bloom's ancestry may be European, rather than Semitic, so he could be white. But Ginobili, Lowell, Gonzalez, Arroyo? Who knows. As for Slavs, if there's no Asian or other non-white ancestry, they're white.
White Shogun said:
Either European or Semitic.
White Shogun said:
I think embracing a person who we think is white, only later to find out they're not white- and I don't just mean someone with a Spanish surname, but also someone with a black daddy, like Kris Humphries- is detrimental to bringing down the Caste System because it makes us look foolish, and underscores the preconception that an athlete benfits from having some non-white ancestry, even if it's a small amount. It also underscores how many white women apparently prefer non-white men, which is even more emasculating to white men than sports.
White Shogun said:
Don't tell that to his white girl. Edited by: JD074
Don Wassall said:
And his eyes. I've seen plenty of Asian/ White biracial people who basically look white except for their eyes. But you're right, if his last name wasn't Fujita I probably never would've noticed them.
Don Wassall said:
Unless one is actually non-white.
Sorry, guys. The one drop rule still applies, even in 2006.
White_Savage
Mentor
The one drop rule cannot be literally applied because it would be difficult to find a person of ANY race ANY where who literally does not have any genes from another race. However, it would be ridiculous to call you non-White JD, if you happen to have a Mongol horsemen in the line 30 or 40 generations back, or because my Grandfather was an eigth Indian or so. To consider most "Whites" to be genetically just that nessecarily involves a reasonable approximation.
We must also consider the point of this site, whose main purpose as I see it is to stand against the prevailing tide of ******* supremacism, an ideology used to defame Whites, but which, intentionally or not, works against Asians and Latins on some level. Therefore, certain non-Whites and half-breeds must be considered excellent evidence points, since no one seriously believes that Whites comes in behind Asians, Amerinds,Semites, etc, as athletes. Therefore, excellent perfomances by individuals of these groups tends to undermine the caste system.
Two big and interesting data points are Latin performance in boxing-why should White+Amerind genes do so well when neither race is considered great boxers, hence it must be cultural factors, and American blacks themselves, nearly all of whom have large White admixture, yet are superior athletes in comparison to their more purely ******* African cousins.
We must also consider the point of this site, whose main purpose as I see it is to stand against the prevailing tide of ******* supremacism, an ideology used to defame Whites, but which, intentionally or not, works against Asians and Latins on some level. Therefore, certain non-Whites and half-breeds must be considered excellent evidence points, since no one seriously believes that Whites comes in behind Asians, Amerinds,Semites, etc, as athletes. Therefore, excellent perfomances by individuals of these groups tends to undermine the caste system.
Two big and interesting data points are Latin performance in boxing-why should White+Amerind genes do so well when neither race is considered great boxers, hence it must be cultural factors, and American blacks themselves, nearly all of whom have large White admixture, yet are superior athletes in comparison to their more purely ******* African cousins.
White Shogun
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One drop rule??
Look, I'll give you a pass on half-breeds, but there is no way I will not consider a person white who looks white, acts white, and faces the same discriminatory practices I do as a white, just because his great-great grandmother was a Cherokee Indian. No way.
What you are advocating will only make it harder for white people to reunite as a PEOPLE. Its bad enough that we have to scorer higher on entrance exams and SAT tests than blacks; discrimination among our own people about who is white is worse. Frankly, I am appalled that a white person who wants to end discrimination against whites and bring down the caste system would even consider such a notion.
I agree 100% with White Savage: any one who wins against a black man helps break down the stereotype.
Look, I'll give you a pass on half-breeds, but there is no way I will not consider a person white who looks white, acts white, and faces the same discriminatory practices I do as a white, just because his great-great grandmother was a Cherokee Indian. No way.
What you are advocating will only make it harder for white people to reunite as a PEOPLE. Its bad enough that we have to scorer higher on entrance exams and SAT tests than blacks; discrimination among our own people about who is white is worse. Frankly, I am appalled that a white person who wants to end discrimination against whites and bring down the caste system would even consider such a notion.
I agree 100% with White Savage: any one who wins against a black man helps break down the stereotype.
I am not so enthusized about the success of non-white blacks. In my experience it just reinforces the belief that whites are even less of athletes.
I remember watching the Olympics with some clueless friends when Wariner won the 400. They refused to belived that he was white, they insisted he must be hispanic because whites never win that race. Never mind that hispanics never win any race, it is just so ingrained in their minds that whites are not good at anything. This thinking is typical.
Look at the success of Somoan football players. Does that do anything to break down the caste for whites? Hell no. It just makes whites look even worse by comparison.
Even Manu Ginobilli is a mixed bag for us. We know he is white but everyone else thinks he is hispanic, because we all know whites stink at basketball.
As soon as Asians have a little success in the Olympics we will be put even lower on the totem pole. Non-white success is never good for us.
I remember watching the Olympics with some clueless friends when Wariner won the 400. They refused to belived that he was white, they insisted he must be hispanic because whites never win that race. Never mind that hispanics never win any race, it is just so ingrained in their minds that whites are not good at anything. This thinking is typical.
Look at the success of Somoan football players. Does that do anything to break down the caste for whites? Hell no. It just makes whites look even worse by comparison.
Even Manu Ginobilli is a mixed bag for us. We know he is white but everyone else thinks he is hispanic, because we all know whites stink at basketball.
As soon as Asians have a little success in the Olympics we will be put even lower on the totem pole. Non-white success is never good for us.
There are genetic tests available now that can determine just how White you are. If you are mostly White you can take another test to find out what regions of Europe you have genetic markers for. The world regional test has been used by the FBI, most famously, to determine that a serial killer around New Orleans was Black despite "witnesses" claiming that the killer was a White man. As far as I can tell, it has a margin for error of at least a few percentage points. In my opinion you are White if you are phenotypically (appear) White. Hypothetically, if there were some sort of revolution/civil war and a White nationalist government were established I think it would be very foolish to exclude those of mostly White ancestry. Benign eugenic srategies or incentives could be established to solve any concerns we might have about the fitness of our population. Most of us have a friend or someone we know who is an eighth or a sixteenth American Indian. We would alienate a large number of people if we were strictly nordicist. That being said, I do tend to cheer less for the athletes who appear to have visually detectable admixture. Also, I know that the whole "race war" scenario sounds far fetched to many ,but if we can cram enough Mexicans in here fast enough they just might start one.Edited by: KG2422
White_Savage
Mentor
Hmmmm...people will be thinking ASIANS and INDIANS are athletically superior to Whites? How odd. According to all the "science" of people like Entine, they are athletically inferior, and they are smaller on average and do less well in sports than Whites, even given the Caste system that works against Whites. The only LOGICAL thing Mestizo or Asian success in sports tells you is how much cultural factors and effort play a part.
White Shogun
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Jax and Bart make some good points. It seems that the caste system is supported by two main ideas:
1) Black men are superior athletes
and the corollary idea that:
2) White men are inferior athletes
The success of a Hispanic or Asian athlete diffuses the first idea, but not the second. In fact, it may enhance the idea that whites are inferior athletes in general.
The success of Samoan athletes in the NFL, for example, may infer that Samoans are better than whites, but are still not as good as blacks.
Nor does the success of the non-white athlete matter to the supporters of the caste system. They see it as we do, a white v. black issue. As long as they're not white, it doesn't matter. The goal of the caste system is to defeat and discourage the white man, not the Chinese and Mexicans.
Interesting conundrum. I still root for non-whites against blacks, mainly because I believe neither of the ideas behind the caste syste to be true. A black loss is a win against the idea that blacks are superior athletes. However, I concede the point that this does not necessarily reflect that whites are better athletes, too. That will have to be proven on the courts, on the fields, and in the ring by white men.
I prefer it that way.
1) Black men are superior athletes
and the corollary idea that:
2) White men are inferior athletes
The success of a Hispanic or Asian athlete diffuses the first idea, but not the second. In fact, it may enhance the idea that whites are inferior athletes in general.
The success of Samoan athletes in the NFL, for example, may infer that Samoans are better than whites, but are still not as good as blacks.
Nor does the success of the non-white athlete matter to the supporters of the caste system. They see it as we do, a white v. black issue. As long as they're not white, it doesn't matter. The goal of the caste system is to defeat and discourage the white man, not the Chinese and Mexicans.
Interesting conundrum. I still root for non-whites against blacks, mainly because I believe neither of the ideas behind the caste syste to be true. A black loss is a win against the idea that blacks are superior athletes. However, I concede the point that this does not necessarily reflect that whites are better athletes, too. That will have to be proven on the courts, on the fields, and in the ring by white men.
I prefer it that way.
White_Savage said:
It's not literal, or at least, I didn't mean it that way. I don't want to be like European whites, who seem to hate other European nationalities (French, British, Irish, etc.) more than the invading Muslims and Africans. I'm referring to those who clearly have non-white ancestry (like Johnny Damon or Kris Humphries,) or someone who the vast majority of sports fans will perceive to be non-white. That's the issue here, not the white person with the "Mongol horsemen" ancestor, with the rest of his ancestry being European.
White_Savage said:
It would be ridiculous to call me non-white because I have blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair skin. (And, I must admit, red cheeks.
White_Savage said:
Reasonable approximation, that's exactly what I mean. If the "one drop rule" comment is a diversion from that basic premise, then I apologize for the confusion. Again, I didn't mean it literally.
White_Savage said:
Please. "Latins" are having no trouble getting whatever opportunities they want here in America.
White_Savage said:
I disagree. Any success by someone who's partially white and partially something else merely reinforces the idea that athletes benefit from non-white ancestry. In other words, it's not about the white mommies, it's about the black and brown daddies.
White_Savage said:
"[N]either race is considered great boxers," who are you talking about, Entine? Who cares. We're talking about sports here, not academia. People think brown-skinned boxers are great, regardless of what Ivory Tower eggheads think about their genetics.
White Shogun
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JD074 said:
See? I knew we were in agreement all along.
White Shogun said:
Relax. That's just three words, I wrote a lot more than that. Don't be like the open borders advocates and cry about how "we can't deport twelve million people!" when that's not the real issue. You're smart enough to understand the basic premise of this argument.
I won't respond to the rest of your post because it's simply beside the point.
White Shogun
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JD,
Since you didn't bother to read it, I wrote an entire other post that conceded some of the points that you, Jax, and Bart made in this thread. In addition, I also told you that I agree with your thoughts regarding half-breeds that their success on the field isn't necessarily a boon for white athletes. I took umbrage at the use of the phrase "one drop rule" which you later stated was an oversimplification as well, when you replied to White Savage.
Further more, I said in the post just prior to this one that I knew we were in agreement all along, and I did not intend that post to be read 'tongue in cheek.'
The rest of your argument was stated in posts written after you wrote the phrase, "Sorry guys, the one drop rule still applies, even in 2006." Since that time you and I both have adjusted our statements on this matter, and from what I gather, see it pretty much the same.
So I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't disparage what I've written by saying its 'beside the point.' It is on point, much as everything you wrote in this thread is, too. I am also PM'ing you with this message just in case you decide not to read this one, either.
Since you didn't bother to read it, I wrote an entire other post that conceded some of the points that you, Jax, and Bart made in this thread. In addition, I also told you that I agree with your thoughts regarding half-breeds that their success on the field isn't necessarily a boon for white athletes. I took umbrage at the use of the phrase "one drop rule" which you later stated was an oversimplification as well, when you replied to White Savage.
Further more, I said in the post just prior to this one that I knew we were in agreement all along, and I did not intend that post to be read 'tongue in cheek.'
The rest of your argument was stated in posts written after you wrote the phrase, "Sorry guys, the one drop rule still applies, even in 2006." Since that time you and I both have adjusted our statements on this matter, and from what I gather, see it pretty much the same.
So I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't disparage what I've written by saying its 'beside the point.' It is on point, much as everything you wrote in this thread is, too. I am also PM'ing you with this message just in case you decide not to read this one, either.
Hey Shogun. I got a little frustrated.
You mean the post that started with, "Jax and Bart make some good points." I read it.
I was still writing my post when you posted that. Oops!
Okay. But in the previous post I wrote about how we look foolish when we mistakenly embrace non-white athletes, that it reinforces the idea that whites benefit from non-white genes, etc. Basically you responded to the one drop comment and not to that post.
My apologies. I just think it's common for people to focus on one comment, and ignore the rest of an argument. Of course I have 20/20 hindsight- as we all do- and I should've simply left out a "throwaway" smartass comment that took the thread in the wrong direction. Oh well.
White Shogun said:
You mean the post that started with, "Jax and Bart make some good points." I read it.
White Shogun said:
I was still writing my post when you posted that. Oops!
White Shogun said:
Okay. But in the previous post I wrote about how we look foolish when we mistakenly embrace non-white athletes, that it reinforces the idea that whites benefit from non-white genes, etc. Basically you responded to the one drop comment and not to that post.
White Shogun said:
My apologies. I just think it's common for people to focus on one comment, and ignore the rest of an argument. Of course I have 20/20 hindsight- as we all do- and I should've simply left out a "throwaway" smartass comment that took the thread in the wrong direction. Oh well.
White Shogun
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Hey JD
I didn't notice until now that you responded - almost six days later, lol. I usually just come in and hit the Active Topics button and read from there. I'm sorry I missed your reply, and appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I've been feeling my oats lately, too, and have probably been a bit too critical of late. I think we're all on edge around here, with whats been in the news lately (Duke, immigration, etc.)
I didn't notice until now that you responded - almost six days later, lol. I usually just come in and hit the Active Topics button and read from there. I'm sorry I missed your reply, and appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I've been feeling my oats lately, too, and have probably been a bit too critical of late. I think we're all on edge around here, with whats been in the news lately (Duke, immigration, etc.)
Maple Leaf
Mentor
I am going to try and make this as succinct and concise as possible. Race and ethnic origin alone will not make anyone a good athlete. Obviously a particular sport demands particular requirements: basketball height, marathon running the contrary, etc. Africans born and raised in the United States are no more "natural" basketball players than Japanese are "natural" sumo-wrestlers. I think the only fair and true observation we can make is that particular body types favour particular activities. Most races have both a stereotypical body type and exceptions, variations of their respective stereotypes.
Sport is an activity, it is a learned and aquired skill. No human being is born with any particular skill.
Sport is an activity, it is a learned and aquired skill. No human being is born with any particular skill.
I LUV asian atheletes because they are like us....they never showboat and just get the job done....besides all that i think that they are our brothers and are the only minority who can even compare with us as far as intelligence. That being said i am white and think of my race first and foremost but that doesnt mean that asians arent good people....you NEVER hear of them committing violent crimes (at least not as much as blacks or hispanics) and they are generally nice people...thanks