UFC 64

[White Shogun]

Cheick Kongo, the African fighter from France, is being fed another can. He has made the televised portion of the fight card for UFC 64, in a bout with Carmello Marrero.

The UFC site lists Kongo's record as 19-2-1, and Marrero's as 5-0-0. Marrero has two wins by decision, two wins by submission, and one win by doctor stoppage.

The last can that went up against Kongo almost beat him. I don't know anything about Marrero other than what I've posted here. It will be interesting to see if he is an even less experienced and capable fighter than the last man they put up against Kongo. It would be evident then (even more than it is now) that they are grooming Kongo for a title shot in the heavyweight division.

 

[agoodleap]

who are your favorites/predictions? Franklin over Silva, but Silva will be the toughest test for Ace so far. Silva has some serious punching power and mad ground skills. I think that Franklin will squeeze out a good decision.

 

[Poacher]

Yes this will be a tough test for Franklin as Dana White is desperate to get a belt around the waist of a non-white. We can can expect much more of these kinds of match-ups.

That said we can stop the diversity by winning in the Octagon. The long arm of political correctness cannot reach in there. Dana can schedule as many non-whites as he wants to fight but he cannot make them win.

I really hope Franklin wins. This would show what a rugged champion he really is. I don't think Silva has any heart. I think if he gets hit a couple of times he will quit.

 

[cleverone]

I think Dana sees Silva as another demographic to market if he beats Franklin. Silva does not have a very good ground game, soRich has a big advantage there.


It does bother me that they keep showing the Silva/Leben knockout over and over. Leben is tough but he's young and needs much more experience. I really want to see Rich knock his *ss out.

 

[agoodleap]

Here is the final nine-bout UFC 64: "Unstoppable" card, which will take place at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, Nevada, on October 14:
185 lb: Rich Franklin (22-1) vs. Anderson Silva (15-4)
155 lb.: Sean Sherk (29-2-1) vs. Kenny Florian (7-2)
170 lb.: Jon Fitch (16-2) vs. Kuniyoshi Hironaka (10-2)
Hvywt: Cheick Kongo (19-2-1) vs. Carmelo Marrero (5-0)
155 lb.: Spencer Fisher (19-2) vs. Dan Lauzon (4-0)
205 lb.: Keith Jardine (11-3-1) vs. Mike Nickels (4-1)
185 lb.: Yushin Okami (18-3) vs. Kalib Starnes (9-1-1)
155 lb.: Justin James (22-5) vs. Clay Guida (20-3)
155 lb.: Kurt Pellegrino (14-2) vs. Junior Assuncao (5-1)

what did you think about the match between Shamrock and Ortiz? I really hated to see a legend go out like that..

 

[White Shogun]

Of course the Cheick Kongo bout is going to be televised, right? They always say the UFC is trying to boost their homegrown TUF guys, but will we see Jardine v Nickels during the PPV?

I'm not sure if you guys know it or not, but the UFC has all the undercard fights available on UFC.tv - for a fee of course. So I pay big bucks to watch the PPV, then I have to pay extra to watch the undercard fights. wtf?

I know everyone is saying Silva will be Rich's toughest test yet, but I've been giving this some thought, and I think Rich will win outright, by KO or some other stoppage.

I will be suprised if Sherk doesn't beat Florian down really bad.

 

[White_Savage]

Shogun, I don't know how many people Franklin is going to have to knock completely unconscious before people realize he's like a MW Chuck. Everyone talks about his cardio or his well-roundedness, but damn, the man can bang! Louisseau only left on his feet because of getting on his bicycle in the last fight, I think Quarry is STILL out, and Evan Tanner, even though he has a great chin, was only saved from the inevitable by the stoppage.

 

[aussieaussie]

Sean Sherk is one hell of a fighter. It is a shame the UFC disbanded their lightweight champion sometime ago because I believe Sean Sherk would have dominated it in the same fashion in which Matt Hughes dominates the welterweight division. I believe he has only two losses.(Corect me if I'm wrong) One to the Canadian kid George St. Pierre, and another loss to the great one.(Matt Hughes)I seen Both those fights and could not stop thinking that his ground skills dare I say were comparable to those of Matt. The big difference was in the stregnth department which Matt obviously has a huge advantage. In this upcoming UFC I believe Sean will win in convincing fashion either stopping Florian, or in a one sided decision that sees Florian merely trying to survive. The UFC seems to be grooming this black bloak Guillard to be their lightweight champion. Although I believe both Florian and Sherk would beat this Bloak I think that it may be a bad matchup for Florian. Sherk on the other hand would dominate Guillard from bell to bell with his superior stregnth, and more significantly his superior grappling skills. While Florian may catch Guillard in a submission, Sherk will outright own him, and punish him, and the search for a great black bloak will have to continue. Also, they seem to be grooming this African who lives in France for a title shot. He is like 20-2, or 20-3 and he is fighting guys that are 4-3, 5-0, 7-5. That is absurd. Before prepping him for a shot at the title, he should have to go through some quality competition. Atleast someone like a Paul Buentello who has some big wins over Justin Eilers, or Mabye even square up against Andrei Arlovski. Well sorry about the long post, but I thought I would put my two cents in.

 

[agoodleap]

It was sad to see him go. But it was a great thing that Ken wanted to be the better man and go up to Tito and talk out there ways. At first he did not want to do it but then he did. It was awesome to see them work it out.

franklin will win. yes silva beat leber pretty easily, but leber is also incredibly sloppy. yea silva's good, but franklins the best.

http://64.ufc.com

 

[Poacher]

Well Silva beat Franklin. Knocked him out via knees to the head. Silva introduced the Thai clinch to the UFC. Franklin didn't seem to know how to defend against it.

Cheik Kongo was exposed finally. Merrero, a good wrestler, took him down almost at will. Kongo has no takedown defense. The fight was a split decision but I think it should have been unanimous. I also thought they stood them up a little often.

The lightweight fight was the best of the night. A five round bloodbath that was dominated by Sherk. Man he's a monster. Guillard would be eaten alive by this guy.

Sad to see Franklin lose but all in all a decent night of fights.

 

[JD074]

That's terribly disappointing. I didn't see the fight but it sounds like another nasty KO for Silva. I didn't want to admit it, but I was pretty nervous about this fight. The fact of the matter is that Franklin has not really beaten great competition. He beat an old Shamrock, an overrated Loiseau (at the time anyway,) and Tanner. Not that impressive. Hopefully they'll have a rematch and Franklin will do much better.

It was only a matter of time. It was great having only white champions in the UFC, and we could again soon, but I knew it wouldn't last forever. On the other hand, whoever beats the black champion should get plenty of respect.

If Franklin can't beat Silva in a rematch, who else can beat him at 185?

 

[White Shogun]

Interestingly enough, in the post-fight interview, Franklin said that Silva was stronger in the clinch than he expected. Rich then said he thought the clinch would be his (Franklin's) sweet spot.

We all looked at each other when he said that. wtf?

I wonder what weakness in Silva's clinch Franklin saw on tape that he thought he could exploit. Everything I read about this guy, and saw in his highlight reels, focused on his striking, particularly in the clinch.

I agree with Poacher, if Franklin thought he would win in the clinch, he seemed to lack a plan of action if that failed him. Which in itself is very surprising, because Franklin has always been thought of as an intelligent fighter who game plans well and adapts in the octagon as needed.

Those watching at my house felt that Silva injured Franklin's ribs with his knees before he went to the head with them, which contributed to Rich's eventual KO.

Silva made it look rather easy, unfortunately.

But I expect Frabklin will be back, better than ever - although after he gets his nose fixed.

I have to give some respect to Ken Florian, because he went the distance with Sherk. Yeah, he was pretty much dominated throughout, but considering that I expected Sherk to bludgeon him into a 'living death' (to quote Ken Shamrock), the fact that he lasted five rounds with the Muscle Shark says something about him.

I was glad to see Cheick lose to an unknown. The fight should not have been scored a split decision, either, and I felt they were definitely looking to put them back on their feet quickly to give the favored son a better shot at ekeing out the win. But oh well!

Maybe this will diminish the hype somewhat. The UFC was grooming this guy for a title shot, but a funny thing happened on the way to the coliseum... lucky for Cheick, too, because I believe Sylvia would have beat the crap out of him.

The fight should not have been scored a split decision, either, and I felt they were definitely looking to put them back on their feet quickly to give the favored son a better shot at ekeing out the win. But oh well!

Edited by: White Shogun

 

[White Shogun]

If Franklin can't beat Silva in a rematch, who else can beat him at 185?

That was the same problem Franklin faced: who is there at middle weight to challenge the champion? Mike Swick? Tanner, Loiseau...??

There was a rumor going around that Matt Hughes said he would move up to middle weight to fight Silva if he beat Franklin. Personally, I think this is a bad idea. What do you think?

It will be interesting to see if they give Rich an immediate rematch like other fighters, or if they feed Silva a few cans first to cement his 'legacy' as a UFC champion before actually having him fight someone good enough to beat him.

And yes, I think Franklin is good enough to beat Silva - just not tonight.

 

[Bart]

It will be interesting to see if they give Rich an immediate rematch like other fighters, or if they feed Silva a few cans first to cement his 'legacy' as a UFC champion before actually having him fight someone good enough to beat him.

And yes, I think Franklin is good enough to beat Silva - just not tonight.

Shogun, what type of strategy or game plan should Franklin utilize if there is a rematch. What type of clinching/kicking does Silva do that is such a problem?

 

[White Shogun]

Bart,
Silva uses what is called a 'Muay Thai' clinch, taken from the sport of the same name. The opponent wraps his hands around the back of your head and pulls your head down and throws knees to the body. It isn't like making a person bend completely over, just tucking the head. You can control a person who isn't trained in MT by using their head to direct them while you throw knees.

There are some defenses to it of course, like everything else, but in this case it just seems that Franklin was woefully unprepared for them in this fight. Or like he himself said, he thought he'd win in the clinch. Anyway, a typical defense is to pull the person close into your body instead of trying to maintain distance. In MMA you could then try to execute a throw or takedown. In traditional martials arts type sports, if you clinch they will just eventually separate you the way they do in boxing.

Although it looks like one could just duck the head and move out, you are asking to have your nose rearranged, (like Franklin) because you're moving directly into the path of the knee. If you time a takedown once the knee has landed, you can avoid taking one to the face but you have to execute it well or risk being KO'd.

I think Franklin merely needs to learn better MT technique, learn the defense and come up with a plan that doesn't play to Silva's strength. I believe Rich was injured in the first couple of exchanges, maybe a broken rib or something, which wouldn't necessarily happen in the next fight if Rich is better prepared.

Edited by: White Shogun

 

[Bart]

Bart,
Silva uses what is called a 'Muay Thai' clinch, taken from the sport of the same name. The opponent wraps his hands around the back of your head and pulls your head down and throws knees to the body. It isn't like making a person bend completely over, just tucking the head. You can control a person who isn't trained in MT by using their head to direct them while you throw knees.

Thanks for the explanation, nowI havea much better understanding and can visualize what happened.

 

[Poacher]

Yes, the Thai clinch is a nasty weapon for those fighters that know how to use it. You either have to prevent your opponent from wrapping his hands around your neck in the first place or, as soon as he does, shoot in as close as possible and wrap your arms around him before he gets his feet set to start throwing knees and go for the take down. Franklin did neither and in fact was thrown around the Octagon by Silva which really surprised me. I would love to see a rematch provided Rich starts studying tape on Muay Thai. Otherwise he would get beat badly again.

We're forgetting the fight with Fitch (from Minnesota) and that Japanese fellow. Fitch, another wrestler, took down his muscular opponent at will, GNPing him unto death. This guy Fitch is at 170 I think. Looked good against what seemed to me to be a tough opponent.

I swear it's so nice to watch a sport filled with mid-western, blue-collar white guys that are tough as nails. What is it with these wrestlers...they are monsters in MMA.

Don't feel too bad gentleman, remember, just a month ago we watched Cro-Cop and Barnett dismantle two Brazillians, including Wanderlei Silva and his Thai clinch. Hey Rich...watch the Cro-Cop/ Silva fight again!

One last thing and I'll shut-up. Over at Sherdog the posters were almost orgasmic with joy that Franklin lost. That site is filled the most obnoxious little white-hating commies you've ever seen. There are Franklin and Hughes fans but they seem badly out-numbered to me. I'm not a member, I just lurk. Edited by: Poacher

 

[White Shogun]

Poacher,
I noticed the same thing about Sherdog. Seems to be worse there than at MMA.tv.

I noticed also that most are happy that someone besides an 'American' (read: white man) has one of the belts, but they can't stop crying about the fact that heavyweight boxing is dominated by 'Europeans' (read: white men,) and can't wait for an 'American' (read: black man) to take the belts back.

This kind of situation makes it difficult for me to root for Silva, or anyone like him. He is a nice enough guy, and is a very capable fighter, but when morons like these are rooting for him it makes me just want to see him lose, quickly, painfully, and efficiently, at the hands of another 'American' (read: white man.)

 

[Bart]

Poacher,

I noticed also that most are happy that someone besides an 'American' (read: white man) has one of the belts, but they can't stop crying about the fact that heavyweight boxing is dominated by 'Europeans' (read: white men,) and can't wait for an 'American' (read: black man) to take the belts back.

Many of the postersdisplayavatars of Blacks and Brazillians and comprise lists of their favorite fighters which usually are top heavy with non-whites.Fighters such as Tito Ortiz and Wanderlei Silva who are notorious showboaters and often classless are held in high regard by legions of fans. But if a fairly well mannered white man even appears to be somewhat cocky or confident he will be routinely condemned for his arrogance.


It is also a fact of life that if a black faces a white, you can be sure white posters will be divided in their allegiances, where as the Blacks and Brazillians will invariablycheerfor one of their own.Edited by: Bart

 

[Triad]

It is also a fact of life that if a black faces a white, you can be sure white posters will be divided in their allegiances, where as the Blacks and Brazillians will invariably cheer for one of their own.

That's exactly how our country works now. Other races have solidarity and the whites are split. Excellent formula for disaster.

 

[Zrazys]

It is also a fact of life that if a black faces a white, you can be sure white posters will be divided in their allegiances, where as the Blacks and Brazillians will invariably cheer for one of their own.

This can be seen either that whites have reached a higher level of racial colorblindness and, can judge the fighters by the content of their character or, have been bitten by the same hyper political correctness that many seem to have.

But if a fairly well mannered white man even appears to be somewhat cocky or confident he will be routinely condemned for his arrogance.

Strange, but this doesn't seem to affect professional wrestlers. The more arrogant, the better, it seems.

 

[White Shogun]

Strange, but this doesn't seem to affect professional wrestlers. The more arrogant, the better, it seems.

Professional wrestling isn't a sport, it's entertainment. Different expectations. Edited by: White Shogun

 

[JD074]

Just saw the fight. Man, Silva has the perfect body type for striking. He's so lanky. He's 5-11 but he fights so much taller, so to speak. It was definitely the knees to the body that did it. Rich Franklin fought better before the clinch than I would've thought, but once they clinched it was over. I also just saw the Silva/ Rivera fight on Youtube and Rivera was better in the clinch than Franklin! Silva beat Rivera with punches mostly.

Franklin said he sparred with Muy Thai fighters but clearly that wasn't enough. Who knows, maybe Franklin needed this loss in order to get to the next level. Like I said before, he hasn't faced great competition. Now he must learn from this painful lesson and become a better fighter.

That was the same problem Franklin faced: who is there at middle weight to challenge the champion? Mike Swick? Tanner, Loiseau...??

It may have to be someone outside of UFC. Anyone in Pride (whatever race) at 185 who could come over and take him? How do you think Lindland would do? Would the clinch eat him alive, too?

There was a rumor going around that Matt Hughes said he would move up to middle weight to fight Silva if he beat Franklin. Personally, I think this is a bad idea. What do you think?

Scary. Silva would have such a huge size and reach advantage. Hughes is not a great striker. He has a good chin though. I've never seen Silva on the ground. How good is he there? You would think a strong wrestler would be a bad match up for him, assuming that the wrestler can avoid any serious damage before he gets him to the ground, of course.

It will be interesting to see if they give Rich an immediate rematch like other fighters, or if they feed Silva a few cans first to cement his 'legacy' as a UFC champion before actually having him fight someone good enough to beat him.

The extent of Franklin's injuries could come into play as well.

And yes, I think Franklin is good enough to beat Silva - just not tonight.

I... tentatively agree.

PS I believe Silva has lost six times. Anybody know the fighters who beat him? Thanks. Edited by: JD074

 

[JD074]

This can be seen either that whites have reached a higher level of racial colorblindness and, can judge the fighters by the content of their character or, have been bitten by the same hyper political correctness that many seem to have.

But many of these non-white athletes have very little "content" in their character.

 

[Triad]

Wikipedia has Silva listed at 6'2', 185 pounds and his MMA record as 17-4 (one of those losses by DQ). I've only seen him fight Leben (still waiting for youtube for the Franklin fight) but he's obviously very impressive standing up.

Silva fought in the Mecca organization in Brazil. Silva lost his first fight to Luiz Azeredo by decision.

At PRIDE 26, Silva faced Daiju Takase. Considering his record at the time - with only four wins to seven losses - most predicted that Takase would not win. Surprisingly, Takase submitted Silva with a triangle choke late in the first round.

That year, Silva returned to PRIDE on December 31. His opponent was Ryo Chonan. The fight was back-and-forth, with no fighter gaining a dominating advantage up until the third round, but Chonan executed a slick flying scissor heel hook, forcing Silva to submit.

Hawaii's Rumble on the Rock promotion, where he fought Yushin Okami in the first round of the 175 lb tournament. Although he was labeled as the favorite to win the tournament, Silva lost his fight when he kicked Okami in the face from the guard position. Okami's knees were on the ground at the time, making the attack an illegal strike to the head of a downed opponent. Silva was disqualified, and returned to Cage Rage once again.