UFC 118 in Boston

[Howard]

August 29th in Boston 2 big Caste match-ups. Champ Frankie Edgar defends belt at 155 pounds against "proud Hawaiian" BJ Penn. And the other big one is James Toney against RRandy Couture in a heavyweight bout. Couture is a huge favorite in the sports books here in Las Vegas. Couture is 47 and could show his age in this fight.

 

[icsept]

I'd be worried if Toney was in his prime, but he'll be 42 at the time of the fight. I'm not sure why Penn gets such a quick rematch title shot.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Howard, James "YOney" has only a (lucky) punchers chance. Once it goes to the mat (or against the cage), his afrolete @ss is grass. I don't give a rat's @$$ about YOney's training BJJ & takedown defense for 9 months, that's a mere drop in the bucket compared to Couture's 13 year MMA career, wrestling since grade school & Olympic level Greco-Roman prowess.

icsept, Penn gets a rematch (so quickly) because he's more "marketable"/recognizable to the UFC, so they want him to have the strap.

As of today, here's the planned card for UFC 118...

Main card

* Lightweight Championship bout: Frankie Edgar (c) vs. United States B.J. Penn
* Heavyweight bout: Randy Couture vs. James Toney
* Lightweight bout: Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard
* Welterweight bout: Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis

Preliminary card (Spike TV)

* Lightweight bout: Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger
* Lightweight bout: Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz

Preliminary card

* Welterweight bout: Nick Osipczak vs. Greg Soto
* Welterweight bout: Mike Pierce vs. Amilcar Alves
* Middleweight bout: United States Gerald Harris vs. United States Joe Vedepo

*** - I'll be pulling for Couture, Maynard, Davis, Lauzon, Vedepo (vs. afflete Harris), Lentz (vs. afflete Winner), Osipczak (vs. mestizo) Soto.

UFC 118 Card

Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Liverlips]

Toney has a zero percent chance in this fight and will go to sleep or tap to the superior fighter in round 1.

 

[Howard]

I was listening to "Fight Club" on SiriusXM satellite radio last night and the hosts were saying that Frankie Edgar is talking sh*t on BJ Penn. Allegedly he is mad that he is getting no respect for being the champ. Hopefully he pulls a Chael Sonnen except for the part where he taps with 2 minutes left.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Hopkins knows the deal...

Hopkins Warns Toney

Friday, August 13, 2010
by Jake Rossen (jrossen@sherdog.com)

There are many, many reasons for James Toney to feel uncomfortable in the Octagon on August 28, but there are two factors that aren't getting a lot of play: gloves and shoes. One is shrinking, and one is disappearing.

Boxers wear shoes for traction: they plant their feet and throw, driving up from the ground to generate power. If you spend two decades wearing shoes and then begin throwing punches without them, I guarantee it's going to feel alien. Toney had them, and now he doesn't.

The boxer is also moving from the big foam clubs to four-ounce grappling mitts, and while that's usually a sign of sadism -- if he can maul with bigger gloves, imagine what he can do without -- it's also going to affect Toney's defense. Boxers can protect themselves with the same tool they use as a weapon. If Toney instinctively puts his hands up expecting coverage, a hand is going to slice through.

These are not points Bernard Hopkins brought up during an interview with Hardcore Sports Radio (and uncovered by Cagewriter) this week, but the argument is still the same: Toney is out of his element.

"When you step out into a situation where, against a legend too in his own sport. I believe, and I'll go on the record, that the best MMA guy or UFC guy go up against the best boxer in the world in their arena, in their arena gets their ass kicked,"Â￾ he said. "I don't care who it is, whether Floyd, Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, they get their ass kicked. That is not what we do."

Hopkins is 90% there. Two kinds of boxers would have modest success in MMA: the highly athletic and the highly aggressive. Mike Tyson had the fuel injection momentum of Melvin Manhoef without the kicks, and Manhoef has earned wins despite having no ground aptitude whatsoever. Sometimes a guy's sheer steamrolling is enough.

The second contingent would resemble the early Mirko "Cro Cop"Â￾ Filipovic: a hyper-athletic striker who can pick up defensive wrestling quickly. A few years ago, maybe the Klitchkos could've pulled it off.

I'm not willing, as Hopkins is, to totally dismiss any boxer's chances in MMA. But Toney, with his plodding, gut-slop style, ain't the guy.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Hopkins-Warns-Toney-26285

Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Howard]

Why do I get the feeling that Toney will pull out of the fight?

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Why do I get the feeling that Toney will pull out of the fight?

The only thing fatbody YOney is gonna "pull out"...is Randy's fist out of his big, ebonics spewing yap...courtesy of some old-school G&P!

Boxing vs. MMA? More Like Boxer vs. Reality
Monday, August 16, 2010
by Todd Martin (TMartin@sherdog.com)

The Ultimate Fighting Championship was originally sold on the concept of fighting style against fighting style. Masters of kung fu, karate, muay Thai and of course jiu-jitsu would battle to prove which fighting discipline was superior.

The elephant in the room during MMA's discipline versus discipline days was the sport of boxing. A few boxers did compete in the UFC. Most memorably, Art Jimmerson wore one boxing glove for his bout with Royce Gracie at UFC 1. But a top-flight boxer never competed in the UFC and for many years top MMA fighters like Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn would field questions about how they would fare against a Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield.

Those in MMA recognized that boxers would struggle to pick up the many disciplines needed for what was then labeled no holds barred fighting. However, boxing was still America's most popular combat sport by a wide margin. To the general public, boxers were perceived as the toughest fighters alive. Boxing was on a completely different level than MMA in the public imagination and there was no incentive for boxers to try out MMA.

That changed with the UFC's pay-per-view explosion of 2006. All of a sudden huge revenues were coming into American MMA. Top MMA fighters were getting rich off their skills. The sport of MMA continued to grow and reached a level of popularity comparable to if not greater than once mighty boxing.

As a result, the stage was finally set for the long anticipated showdown between an elite MMA fighter and an elite boxer. Multiple division boxing champion and future boxing Hall of Famer James Toney saw the opening and began a campaign to get a fight in the UFC. UFC decision makers were initially cold on the idea, but Toney eventually talked himself into a fight with UFC Hall of Famer Randy Couture Aug. 28 at UFC 118.

UFC is billing the bout between Couture and Toney as boxing vs. the UFC. It would seem to be the culmination of the longstanding rivalry between MMA and boxing. Only, it isn't.

Boxing fans, once strongly dismissive of MMA, now by and large recognize the skill and ability of top MMA practitioners. Top-shelf boxers like Bernard Hopkins and David Haye have acknowledged the great difficulty pure boxers would have transitioning into MMA. Only boxing's ignorant and insecure are left fighting an imagined battle with MMA.

On the flip side, MMA fans no longer need proof of their sport's legitimacy. Capacity crowds, strong pay-per-view buy rates and greatly enhanced media coverage demonstrate broad acceptance of the sport. MMA can no longer be dismissed with the flick of a wrist.

There is no real answer to whether MMA or boxing is "better."Â￾ In 2010, it's a question that's rarely even asked. By now everyone recognizes that the rules of the competition will dictate how a boxer fares against a mixed martial artist. Everyone, seemingly, except James Toney.

Toney is not without a chance against Couture. Between Toney's boxing ability and MMA's 4-ounce gloves, he will be extremely dangerous for as long as the fight stays on the feet. Unfortunately for the boxing great, that isn't likely to be a very long time given the wrestling ability of Couture. A crafty wrestling specialist who knows every trick in the book is pretty much the worst possible first MMA opponent for Toney.

A prime world-class boxer could eventually do well in MMA. However, it would take years of cross training in wrestling and jiu-jitsu. Toney is already 41 years old and has less than a year of MMA training. If Usain Bolt decided to give the NFL a try, no team would expect him to be a starting receiver in less than a year.

If Toney is aware of the difficulty of the challenge in front of him, he has done a great job masking it. Toney in promoting the fight has not only spoken with the bluster you would expect of a PPV hype man but has blown off legitimate questions about his training and MMA learning curve.

In recent years, many aspiring MMA fighters with a strong background in an individual discipline have taken similar paths. The trend is to join an established gym with experienced trainers and training partners like American Top Team or American Kickboxing Academy. Those teams offer consistency, knowledge and focus.

By contrast, Toney has done things his way. He has rotated in and out a number of trainers and training partners. There is widespread doubt that Toney is taking his training seriously or that he has a contingency plan if he isn't able to knock out Couture in the first couple minutes of the fight.

While the boxing versus MMA angle has not garnered a lot of momentum heading into UFC 118, there is no shortage of discussion about Toney. The clash of MMA and boxing no longer has the intrigue it once did. Instead, the intrigue is about James Toney himself, the human oddity still oblivious to the long established fact that MMA and boxing are two very different sports.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Boxing-vs-MMA-More-Like-Boxer-vs-Reality-26343

Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Liverlips]

Toney may have a chance if he can flap Randy with one of his man boobs or with his double chin.

This is gonna be fun to watch in a bar with the DWFs feeling all sad and blue after their boy gets KO'd by the superior white fighter (as usual).

 

[Thrashen]

Toney may be old, washed-up, and morbidly obese, but he's never been KO'ed (or TKO'ed) in over 80 professional fights. If nothing else, the fat, loud-mouthed slob can take a punch. Couture only has average punching power, so I doubt he will be able to KO Toney. Dirty boxing with an eventual submission by Couture is the most likely outcome. Toney also lacks KO power, but certainly has a "punchers chance."Â￾

Hopefully Couture smashes this fat, racist turd into oblivion. Edited by: Thrashen

 

[Howard]

I just saw a recent picture of Couture and he looks ancient. Hate to write it ,but Toney is like a 4 for 1 dog so I might bet a small amount on him.Couture gets hit on the jaw and he's going to sleep. I'm nervous about this one and Lesnar/Velasquez. Lesnar is going to have the whole world against him because he's fighting a guy that could become the first "Mexican-American" heavyweight champ. Got a feeling Lesnar could gey screwed.

 

[Liverlips]

Couture actually looks pretty good - even for a 47 year old. He certainly looks better than James Toney - with his slurred speech, man boobs and white Uncle Remus beard. Go ahead and put money on Toney if you want to but you will lose.

Lesnar is a much bigger man and a much better wrestler than Cain. He has also beaten much better competition.

You are worried about two relatively easy fights for our people.

 

[hawkeye]

Randy's wrestling is good enough to take anyone down. Toney has also faced a lot of week competition. I think Couture goes for a single leg and secures the mount. One other point is that there are a lot of wrestlers with no strikeing ability doing well in MMA, example Cormier, King Mo, Cole Konrad. I think Randy is a better striker then any of those guys. I say Randy takes it in the first round.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Couture via submission or TKO (i.e. - unanswered/defended punches from G&P position). YOney does have a slight punchers chance, but Randy's training control, takedown, GnP + subs like crazy. BTW, Couture's in outstanding shape for a 30 year old...much less a 47 y/o.

Regarding Lesnar vs. "Mud Pride"...Lesnar is bigger, stronger, w/ heavier hands, a better jaw (Cain nearly got KO'd by "Queen" Kongo) & as good or better wrestling. I personally would love to see Brock brutalize "Mud Pride" worst than he did Mir.

 

[guest301]

Couture via submission or TKO (i.e. - unanswered/defended punches from G&P position). YOney does have a slight punchers chance, but Randy's training control, takedown, GnP + subs like crazy. BTW, Couture's in outstanding shape for a 30 year old...much less a 47 y/o.

Regarding Lesnar vs. "Mud Pride"...Lesnar is bigger, stronger, w/ heavier hands, a better jaw (Cain nearly got KO'd by "Queen" Kongo) & as good or better wrestling. I personally would love to see Brock brutalize "Mud Pride" worst than he did Mir.

I also see Brock just rolling right through Cain Velasquez. Carwin/Lesnar II would be a much better fight.

 

[Guest]

Seriously how many cans is the UFC going to feed Gerald Harris to pad this black hype's record. Since being KO'd by White Persian Amir Sadollah on TUF over 2 years ago, Harris has beaten up on like 8 nobodies without facing a single ranked MW.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Seriously how many cans is the UFC going to feed Gerald Harris to pad this black hype's record. Since being KO'd by White Persian Amir Sadollah on TUF over 2 years ago, Harris has beaten up on like 8 nobodies without facing a single ranked MW.

In addition to Sadollah, Benji "Razor" Radach also whooped Harris' @$$ (circa 2007). If/when Harris faces a quality fighter (again), he'll be summarily exposed (again).

 

[Howard]

I think Toney has a good shot against Couture. If he can land an upper cut as Couture shoots or clinches he will KO Couture.

 

[whiteathlete33]

I think Toney has a good shot against Couture. If he can land an upper cut as Couture shoots or clinches he will KO Couture.

Toney only has a puncher's chance. Toney doesn't have the ground skills.

 

[celticdb15]

I think Toney has a good shot against Couture. If he can land an upper cut as Couture shoots or clinches he will KO Couture.

You keep saying that! We'll see on the 29th what happens..

 

[Howard]

I don't want Toney to win,but I got a feeling Couture will get caught.

 

[icsept]

I presume Toney will outweigh Couture by 15-20 lbs, which could negate some of Couture's ground advantage. And, I'm sure he's spent weeks working on his takedown defense. Still, with Couture's mma experience, I can't see him losing.

 

[Liverlips]

Toney was not really a big puncher in boxing. He was more of a guy who could wear his opponents down. James Toney has no shot and will literally be like a turtle on his back.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Does anyone here really care about this fight? I do because it's a caste matchup but let's be serious. This fight is a fraud. It's the same crap David Haye pulled in boxing. Toney want's money and a caste matchup like this is the perfect way to do it. We are all pulling into his game.

Toney is a boxer and nothing else. If he hand any legit skills he would challenge some of the top cruiser or heavyweights who would wipe the floor with him. Sorry everyone but we are buying into his propaganda.
Edited by: whiteathlete33

 

[icsept]

Does anyone here really care about this fight?  I do because it's a caste matchup but let's be serious.  This fight is a fraud.  It's the same crap David Haye pulled in boxing.  Toney want's money and a caste matchup like this is the perfect way to do it.  We are all pulling into his game.Toney is a boxer and nothing else.  If he hand any legit skills he would challenge some of the top cruiser or heavyweights who would wipe the floor with him. Sorry everyone but we are buying into his propaganda.

Good point. This fight is gimmick. At this point, the UFC should be better than to have to put a James Toney or Kimbo Slice fight on their main card.