Solomon Kane
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Oops sorry, I was wrong about Hartmann not surviving or leaving a memoir--my bad!
Tuskegee Airmen; superpilots
- Thread starter yanling
- Start date
Jimmy Chitwood
Hall of Famer
SK, you brought up an interesting point when you mentioned how truly amazing the fighting capabilities of the Germans were.
a friend of mine who lives in Bulgaria and is a student of military history likes to tease me about many of America's tales of military genius. he insists that much of what we are taught with regard to America's victories are misleading, and after i have done a little bit of digging (and with all the other lies we are taught in our history courses) i can easily believe him.
for example, he points out that America claimed to have shot down several thousand Bulgarian aircraft during WWII... which is confusing seeing as how Bulgaria never had more than the 800 or so aircraft that it began the war with.
a friend of mine who lives in Bulgaria and is a student of military history likes to tease me about many of America's tales of military genius. he insists that much of what we are taught with regard to America's victories are misleading, and after i have done a little bit of digging (and with all the other lies we are taught in our history courses) i can easily believe him.
for example, he points out that America claimed to have shot down several thousand Bulgarian aircraft during WWII... which is confusing seeing as how Bulgaria never had more than the 800 or so aircraft that it began the war with.
White_Savage
Mentor
Yep, the Tuskeegee Airman thing is annoying. Of course, what is more annoying, sickening, and inexplicable, is that these admittedly heroic Black pilots are NOT the best known or most admired Black people. What percentage of Blacks even know who Buddy Archer is? Instead we get one street in every town in every state named after proffesional protestor MLK, we get heroizing of such of loudmouthed scum "affaletes" as Jack Johnson or Ali, or even worse street criminals. Why not George Washington Carver boulevard for Pete's sake? He actually did some useful work for mankind. Just goes to who you how
perverse Black culture is and how stupid Whites are for going along with it.
Keep in mind, German pilots had astounding records partly they were flying in combat since the Spanish Civil war, and were not rotated out, and were oftimes flying against vastly inferior East European air forces in the beginning of WWII. That said, you can't argue with the skill or bravery of the Luftwaffe under basically impossible conditions. Another glorious waste of young White men killing each other, courtesy of their oh-so-wise political systems.
I'm glad someone else realizes the F4U4 generally outperformed the P51D, although one must realize it took a 2500HP radial engine the size of a small car for it to do so. The P51H hit 480MPH! when the Mustang finally got a much-needed engine upgrade, alas, just a little too late to make it into WWII
P51's Airframe+ FW190D9's Jumo 213 engine...now that would be the GodPlane(tm).
perverse Black culture is and how stupid Whites are for going along with it.
Keep in mind, German pilots had astounding records partly they were flying in combat since the Spanish Civil war, and were not rotated out, and were oftimes flying against vastly inferior East European air forces in the beginning of WWII. That said, you can't argue with the skill or bravery of the Luftwaffe under basically impossible conditions. Another glorious waste of young White men killing each other, courtesy of their oh-so-wise political systems.
I'm glad someone else realizes the F4U4 generally outperformed the P51D, although one must realize it took a 2500HP radial engine the size of a small car for it to do so. The P51H hit 480MPH! when the Mustang finally got a much-needed engine upgrade, alas, just a little too late to make it into WWII
P51's Airframe+ FW190D9's Jumo 213 engine...now that would be the GodPlane(tm).
sport historian
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Jimmy Chitwood said:SK, you brought up an interesting point when you mentioned how truly amazing the fighting capabilities of the Germans were.
a friend of mine who lives in Bulgaria and is a student of military history likes to tease me about many of America's tales of military genius. he insists that much of what we are taught with regard to America's victories are misleading, and after i have done a little bit of digging (and with all the other lies we are taught in our history courses) i can easily believe him.
for example, he points out that America claimed to have shot down several thousand Bulgarian aircraft during WWII... which is confusing seeing as how Bulgaria never had more than the 800 or so aircraft that it began the war with.
Your Bulgarian friend is the one who is misleading. America did not claim to have shot down "several thousand Bulgarian aircraft during WWII." The US 15th Air Force flew many missions over Southeastern Europe. They often encountered Hungarian and Rumananian-flown aircraft. Sometimes Bulgarian and Slovakian pilots were encountered.
Since the Hungarians, Bulgarians, Slovakians, and sometimes the Rumanians were flying Me-109's, our pilots thought they were fighting Germans. The victory claims by American fighter pilots were generally accurate, as has been shown by post-war research.
screamingeagle
Mentor
The German pilots that most impressed me were Hans Joachim Marseille who shot down 158 British planes and Werner Molders who was an great leader and shot doewn 115 aircraft mostly, British. The Germans considered the British the best pilots.
The Germans had better scores because they flew all the time. The Allies had tours of duty that when completed the aces would instruct student pilots. German pilots flew until they were captured or killed. The result is that they had twice the number of hours and missions that allied pilots.
German pilots flew in a "Target rich environment." Lots of oppotunities! They also flew against the Soviets. Stalin's purges depleted the ranks of experience pilots. For the first year and a half, the soviet pilots were of poor quality.
Now if they had to face the T-Airman from the beginning, we know they would have been defeated in a week.
The Germans had better scores because they flew all the time. The Allies had tours of duty that when completed the aces would instruct student pilots. German pilots flew until they were captured or killed. The result is that they had twice the number of hours and missions that allied pilots.
German pilots flew in a "Target rich environment." Lots of oppotunities! They also flew against the Soviets. Stalin's purges depleted the ranks of experience pilots. For the first year and a half, the soviet pilots were of poor quality.
Now if they had to face the T-Airman from the beginning, we know they would have been defeated in a week.
screamingeagle
Mentor
Another T-airmen alert. In an article in thursday La Raza, ....er Chicago Tribune, The state that over a 1000 t-airman flew 15000 missions.That sounds impressive. Then you realize that it comes out to an average of 15 missions per pilot- about average. (The standard tour was 50 missions. The average for the group would be smaller because some pilots would be shot down or die in crashes.)
The T-airman served and did their part, but they were an average group. Others won the war.
The T-airman served and did their part, but they were an average group. Others won the war.
White_Savage
Mentor
The thing that amused me, was how some have acted like keeping them in reserve and allowing them to train more before actually sending them into combat was some great racist slap in the face...
What was actually criminal was how LITTLE training some of their White counterparts recieved before being sent out to fight the Experten.
What was actually criminal was how LITTLE training some of their White counterparts recieved before being sent out to fight the Experten.
Tom Iron
Mentor
gsm1988,
I don't think they're being attacked. All that's being done here is setting the record straight. Wouldn't you call the MSM coverage of the Tuskegee airmen, "bit out of line?" I would, to say the least.
Tom Iron...
I don't think they're being attacked. All that's being done here is setting the record straight. Wouldn't you call the MSM coverage of the Tuskegee airmen, "bit out of line?" I would, to say the least.
Tom Iron...
reclaimsocal
Guru
Yes, for THEIR service, not for the service of others for whom they are being given credit. Likewise, for THEIR actual service, not some bloated lie that lessens the true service of others when compared to it.
screamingeagle
Mentor
I respect the Tuskegee airmen. They served and they did their part. In today's Politically correct world they are the only air group that is ever mentioned. The young kids of today never heard of Don Blakelee and the 4th fighter group, the escort to Berlin, or Zemke's wolfpack, or the American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) in China.
I do not feel that I am attacking them. Their reputation has been overblown for political and racial reasons. I feeling that I am putting them in the place that they earned. They served, but others who were white did more to win the war.
I do not feel that I am attacking them. Their reputation has been overblown for political and racial reasons. I feeling that I am putting them in the place that they earned. They served, but others who were white did more to win the war.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
The Doolittle family married into mine years ago, and it seems that the exploits of Jimmy Doolitle's Tokyo Raiders are overlooked and almost forgotten now in favor of the TA.
Colonel_Reb said:
I don't think that It's right that the Tuskegee Airmen get more attention then the other World War II heroes. I personally think that their exploits are overhyped and made into more then they actually are. However, they served this country with honor and dignity and we should all respect them for that. Some people here don't seem to though.