TUF 4

[White Shogun]

One thing you notice right away; there are lots of black guys on this show. I don't know if thats because this show features a a B-list of also rans, or if there is already a move afoot to balance out the ranks and bring more 'diversity' to the UFC.

What's more, some of these guys must think they're competing for the NFL's best dressed gangsta award or forgot to change out of their pimp uniform before they came to the show. Did you see that ridiculous outfit that Shonie Carter was wearing? Complete with big hat, walking cane, huge amounts of bling bling, and an attitude, Shonie Carter is the personification of pimp. And that's not a good thing, in case you're wondering.

At any rate, the first fight pitted the aforementiond Pimpie Carter against a white guy named Clementi. Boring fight won by Carter via unanimous decision. Matt Serra acted as Carter's corner man, and his voice was loud and obnoxious. I actually had to turn the volume down, it was that noisome.

Oh, and in case you hadn't heard, the winners of this season's show get a shot at the title in their respective weight class: Matt Hughes or Rich Franklin.

 

[White_Savage]

I don't know what kind of f*cked up scoring system they are using for TUF fights, but I sure thought that was robbery. Clementi easily won the 1st round. I'd give the second round to Shonie, but certainly not a 10-8 round-Clementi took him down, Shonie got a reversal, maintained top position, but couldn't do any damage and Clementi escaped before the end of the round. That's a draw in my book and a good reason to go to the 3rd round the judges are allowed to call for. I think these fights should be 3 rounds anyway, I suspect they are two rounds so they can pack less fighting and more "drama" into an hour format..sheesh, drama also being the reason Carter got the gift no doubt.

I'm quite sure they deliberately stacked the house with blacks. Shonie was a decent undercard entertainer before he got too old, Serra would kill him in a rematch 9 times out of ten, don't know about Din Thomas, Ray and Spratt are cans.

 

[JD074]

I'm so indifferent about that show at this point that I wasn't even bothered by that fight. That dreadful third season was the end of it for me. When I first heard about this season, I thought, "Hmm, maybe we'll see some actual heart and passion for a change," but then I thought, "why should I give a damn about some also rans who will never be champs?" At least with the up and comers there's a miniscule chance that one or two could be something someday.

Also, did Carter say something about Clementi being Japanese? I wasn't really paying attention when he said it, but I thought I heard him say something about a Japanese translation or something or rather.

And why should Hughes and Franklin take the time to fight these guys? And risk injury fighting these guys when they should be fighting top contenders? Speaking of which, do you guys think that they'll give Sanchez a shot at Hughes? I would love to see that.

 

[White Shogun]

In each of the previous TUF seasons, there has been at least one or two of the contestants who have came out and performed well and made a name for themselves; Forrest Griffin, Diego Sanchez, and I believe Michael Bisping would be considered the top tier, with Stephan Bonnar, Chris Leben, Nate Quarry, Mike Swick, and a couple others in the second tier.

I like the shows better now that they have done away with the contests, and make sure that each fighter has to fight at least once before advancing, unlike in TUF 1.

Having said that, what we saw on TUF 3 was pretty sad. No one wanting to step up and fight. I don't think Ross Pointon is all that great, but at least he stepped up and I think he'd make an exciting fight on any undercard, just because he shows up and gives it all.

I agree that having the winner of TUF 4 automatically qualify for a title shot is a bit of a reach. But then again, so far there are only a few fighters in the UFC that warrant a shot at the title. That's why Anderson Silva can step right in and get a shot against Rich Franklin without so much as a Hello, how are you? Who else is going to fight Franklin?

Outside of GSP, who is going to give Hughes a run for his money? BJ Penn? But he already lost to GSP. Some complain that BJ Penn should have been granted a shot the same way Silva has with Franklin, but like I said - who else is going to fight Franklin?

I'd like to see a title eliminator between Diego and BJ Penn, before I see them fight Hughes.

 

[freedom1]

I'm very excited to see Mikey Burnett back in action. He was awesome when he was in the UFC. I thought his loss to Milletich was a ripoff. I felt Burnett won that fight easily, then the judges gave it to Pat. Mikey disappeared after that.

 

[White Shogun]

I'm very excited to see Mikey Burnett back in action. He was awesome when he was in the UFC. I thought his loss to Milletich was a ripoff. I felt Burnett won that fight easily, then the judges gave it to Pat. Mikey disappeared after that.

He posts on MMA.tv forums. From what I saw on the show and read in his own words, the guy has overcome some major drama in his life. Other posters on that board have said some really nice things about the guy, those that have met him in person.

 

[dkr77]

I met Burnett a few years back and he was a very nice guy. I think he maybe better suited at 155 instead of 170 though. I also imagine it would be very hard to get back to top form when you have been away from the action as long as Burnett has.

 

[JD074]

That's a good point, Shogun, that there aren't many challengers to Hughes and Franklin. Who knows, maybe the two winners will be relatively impressive; I'm probably being too harsh.

I also agree that preferably a fighter should earn a title shot, but since there aren't many contenders, they should get whoever is available- in other words, any decent fighter who will promptly put his John Hanc*ck on the dotted line. And if that means Penn or Sanchez, and Silva, I'm fine with that. And of course those fighters bring a racial dynamic to the fights, which is always fun.

Hughes/ GSP II would be great, too.

Who else is out there to fight Franklin besides Silva? I can't think of anybody! Edited by: JD074

 

[White Shogun]

Did you see tonight's episode? (8/24)

wtf??

How did Clementi - Carter end with a decision in two rounds, but DeWees - Ray go three rounds?

DeWees manhandled Ray almost the entire fight, dominating in mount, take downs, even exchanges in the stand up, which was supposed to be Ray's forte, and the fight goes three rounds??

I thought for sure they would stop the fight on that cut. I appreciated the fact that they showed a clip of the doctor stating that the amount of blood loss was no where significant enough to be threatening, despite how it looked. Anyone who has ever had a gash on their scalp knows how bad it will bleed, no matter how shallow.

Kudos to the UFC for letting the fight continue.
Jeers for seeing the first two rounds of this fight a draw.
Jeers to Gideon Ray for saying the fight should have been stopped because of blood.

 

[White_Savage]

Shogun:
Yeah, that fight was wierd on both counts. It was nowhere as near being a draw as Clementi-Carter.

I've seen fights stopped on bleeding/cuts that weren't as bad, including Tanner/Loisseau and Ray's own fight against Louisseau. But it was nowhere near the eye so maybe that made the difference.

I wasn't too terribly impressed with either man's performance. Dewees is obviously stronger and more dominant as a wrestler, but it looks like he gassed and couldn't finish off Ray. Maybe if he develops more endurance he'll be a better fighter.

 

[White Shogun]

Savage:
We were not impressed with either fighter, either. You can see in the first two fights why no one on the show is a champion.

It is always is to criticize a fighter while you're sitting on the couch, but one can still offer observations I suppose. IMO DeWees had several opportunities to submit Ray but did not make a concerted effort. He was in position in side mount several times for an armbar or kimura. He did attempt a couple of triangle chokes but appeared to be unsure of what to do or, how to do it. From the pre-fight interview, DeWees seemed to be a more proficient grappler, but other than takedowns and passing the guard I didn't see much that indicated he was that well-versed in submission grappling.

Having said that, Gideon Ray is obviously even worse at grappling than DeWees. He didn't appear to attempt any of the most basic moves to prevent DeWees from passing guard. He seemed incapable of even thinking about positioning.

None of the four we've seen so far will end up as the "Ultimate Fighter" from this series, of that I am confident.

 

[freedom1]

Yes, I saw the fight, and they did seem like second tier fighters. Gideon had minimal technique on the ground. DeWees, even though he seemed to have technique, lacked the physicality or explosiveness to apply his knowledge.

Also, what was with DeWees' blood coagulation? Man, that guy is a bleeder! He should really consider another line of work.

I still have high hopes for Mikey Burnett. I hope his time away has not eroded his skills to the point where he can't come back.

 

[White_Savage]

. DeWees, even though he seemed to have technique, lacked the physicality or explosiveness to apply his knowledge.

Also, what was with DeWees' blood coagulation? Man, that guy is a bleeder! He should really consider another line of work.

.

You know Freedom, I had exactly the opposite impression. Dewees is obviously strong, I mean, he threw Gideon around like a rag-doll, and pretty much moved his limbs where he wanted them. But it looked like he was gassed and didn't have a strategy for forcinge Gideon into a sub.

Every Black fighter in MMA gets called "explosive" and "strong". It's a standard label, whether it's Randleman (indeed strong, though probably behind Fedor, Crocop, and certainly Coleman), Rampage (appears to be about average for a man of his weight class), or TUF's Shonie Carter, cannot figure out what that skinny little ***** has done to be called "so damned strong". It's like, a Black gets throws and takedowns "enormous strength and explosiveness", a White hits the same moves, "excellent wrestling technique." More Caste propaganda IOW, no doubt unconcious on the part of the announcers, but still annoying.

 

[White Shogun]

I didn't think it was physical on the part of DeWees as much as uncertainty. He didn't seem to know how to finish a technique or work for a setup.

 

[JD074]

Rampage (appears to be about average for a man of his weight class),

Well, Matt Lindland thought he was pretty strong. Even after Jackson said that he smelled bad, he again complimented his strength. I'm not saying his strength isn't overrated, I'm just saying that a guy who fought him thought he was strong.

It's like, a Black gets throws and takedowns "enormous strength and explosiveness", a White hits the same moves, "excellent wrestling technique."

That's a great point.
Edited by: JD074

 

[freedom1]

Yes, I could very well be brainwashed by the system, but that was the way I perceived the fight as I watched it. To be specific, I don't think he lacked strength, I think he lacked power. His technique looked pretty sound to me.

Could what I perceived as lack of power be lack of aggression, or lack of confidence? It's possible. Again, from what I saw, he was doing the right things, making the right submission attempts on another guy who had limited skills. I started watching the UFC beginning with UFC 3. I've seen them all and most of the Prides. I'll watch it again when they show the rerun.

 

[White_Savage]

JD074: But Matt Lindland is a natural middleweight. And in the course of the fight, he also lifted and slammed Rampage. Not saying the guy is weak, either, but theres no reason to think he's another Matt Hughes either.

You'll notice some Black fighters seem stuck on slams. This is not because they are stronger than White fighters, you'll notice even Matt Hughes doesn't go for all that many dramatic slams anymore, it's because it often doesn't do any real damage to a fighter-for an example, watch Jackson's fight with Sak-and uses a lot of energy, when the highest percentage strategy in groundfighting is to put them on the ground anyway at all and work for position and submission, or GnP. Typical Black preference for spectacle over performance. It's akin to how Blacks tend to hit alot of homeruns, Hispanics tend to have high batting averages, but White players get on base more than either-smart playing of the percentages.

 

[White Shogun]

Did anyone watch last night's episode (8/31?) that featured a fight between Pete Spratt (black) and Chris Lytle (white)?

Spratt was a college football player at Southeastern Oklahoma State in the mid '90's, and a Golden Gloves novice division winner in Dallas, Texas. Spratt boasted about his'athleticism' during the pre-fight interviews.

Lytle beat Spratt within the first minute or so of the fight by reverse guillotine.

In the dressing room after the fight, Spratt said,"Man, I'm sicka this bullsheeit! I'm the best athlete here! I'm the most athletic guy here! I shoulda won this fight! I'm sicka this bullsheeit!"

Apparently, Spratt was a little upset that his ripped muscles and athleticism counted for so little in his fight against a a career fireman.

 

[White_Savage]

Boy, this is just more TNB that gets me steamed.

He complains about being "bumrushed". You expected something other than a guy coming at you throwing punches? This ain't basketball. He cops an attitude like he "won" the fight in some way. The fool didn't loose because of the scorecards, or a questionable stoppage, or even a lucky strike. He got taken down, put in a sub, and GAVE up because his neck was being cranked. Sheesh, you don't get anymore cleanly than that. Is this a genetic ******* trait, does one EVER lose (at least to a White man) without this behavior?

Anyway, half of the Blacks (who are going to take over MMA any day now) have been eliminated and they are 1-2 on TUF.

 

[JD074]

He complains about being "bumrushed".

Yeah, that was hilarious!! What the f*ck did he expect?! LOL!

And this is the same guy who turned down a championship fight with Hughes once upon a time. I think we know all we need to know about his character and courage.


And of course you're right about Lindland being naturally smaller than Jackson. They showed the Shogun/ Jackson fight on FSN recently and Shogun OWNED him. I guess Jackson needs someone smaller than him in order to have a chance.

 

[dkr77]

Chris Lytle and Matt Serra are the two to watch. Lytle is very well rounded and Serra is a great ground technician.