Top 9 Rookie and Hitting on MLB

[sport historian]

Tonight, Monday the 19th, the MLB Network has the Top 9 rookie seasons at 8 pm ET. It follows with the Top 9 hitting seasons at 8:30. A special on the Negro Leagues comes right after.

 

[sport historian]

The Top 9 Rookie Seasons were:

1. Jackie Robinson 1947
2. Ted Williams1939
3. Albert Pujols2001
4. Fernando Valenzuela 1981
5. Fred Lynn1975
6. Ichiro Suzuki2001
7. Joe DiMaggio1936
8. Dwight Gooden1984
9. Mike Piazza1993

 

[sport historian]

The Top 9 Hitting Seasons were:

1. Babe Ruth 1921
2. Ted Williams 1941
3. Barry Bonds 2001
4. Rogers Hornsby 1922
5. Ty Cobb 1911
6. Mickey Mantle 1956
7. Lou Gehrig 1927
8. Honus Wagner 1908
9. Mike Piazza 1997

 

[PhillyBirds]

Ho, boy. How about some numbers comparing rookie seasons numbers one and two?

TW: .327avg (185 hits/565 at-bats)
JR: .297avg (175 hits/590 at-bats)

TW: 31 HR, 145 RBI
JR: 12 HR, 48 RBI

TW: 107 walks
JR: 74 walks

Are these even seriously comparable?
Edited by: PhillyBirds

 

[Don Wassall]

Mark McGwire hit an amazing 49 home runs as a rookie but doesn't make the list. His smashing of Roger Maris' home run record isn't included in the other list either. Given that Roger Clemens has been similarly exiled from the pitching lists that isn't surprising. Of course the same can't be said of pumpkin head Bonds.

 

[Bart]

Ho, boy. How about some numbers comparing rookie seasons numbers one and two?

TW: .327avg (185 hits/565 at-bats)
JR: .297avg (175 hits/590 at-bats)

TW: 31 HR, 145 RBI
JR: 12 HR, 48 RBI

TW: 107 walks
JR: 74 walks

Are these even seriously comparable?

No!More affirnative action nonsense. This is as bogus asthe Pedro Martinez farce we discussed the other day.

 

[sport historian]

Mark McGwire hit an amazing 49 home runs as a rookie but doesn't make the list.  His smashing of Roger Maris' home run record isn't included in the other list either. Given that Roger Clemens has been similarly exiled from the pitching lists that isn't surprising.  Of course the same can't be said of pumpkin head Bonds.

McGwire and Clemens aren't allowed to be on Best Ever lists, but Barry Bonds is? Has someone explained this?

 

[jaxvid]

Notice the only black on the top hitting list was Bonds. Which I guess means that blacks need steroids to compete with whites.

 

[GWTJ]

Any top ten list will bring on the arguments but the truth is that the blacks who are at the top of the career lists did it through longevity. Aaron, Mays and Frank Robinson never had a top ten year.

I am actually struggling to come up with a black other than Bonds who did have a top ten year.

Maybe Rice had a good year. Foster hit 50 HR's once. Carew batted .388 once. That's about it.

 

[jaxvid]

Any top ten list will bring on the arguments but the truth is that the blacks who are at the top of the career lists did it through longevity. Aaron, Mays and Frank Robinson never had a top ten year.

I am actually struggling to come up with a black other than Bonds who did have a top ten year.

Maybe Rice had a good year. Foster hit 50 HR's once. Carew batted .388 once. That's about it.

I don't know about that. Mays won 2 MVP's 1954 and 1965 and led the NL in most significant catagories those years and of course he was a 5 tool player. Frank Robinson won the triple crown in 1966-the numbers might not look that great but it was a down era for hitters, and he had another MVP season in 1962. I would rank both of their best years above Bonds.

 

[GWTJ]

Any top ten list will bring on the arguments but the truth is that the blacks who are at the top of the career lists did it through longevity. Aaron, Mays and Frank Robinson never had a top ten year.

I am actually struggling to come up with a black other than Bonds who did have a top ten year.

Maybe Rice had a good year. Foster hit 50 HR's once. Carew batted .388 once. That's about it.

I don't know about that. Mays won 2 MVP's 1954 and 1965 and led the NL in most significant catagories those years and of course he was a 5 tool player. Frank Robinson won the triple crown in 1966-the numbers might not look that great but it was a down era for hitters, and he had another MVP season in 1962. I would rank both of their best years above Bonds.

Mays and Robinson did have some great years. Years that any hitter would love to have. But if Hack Wilson's 1930 season(.356/56 HR's/ 191 RBI's/ 146 Runs) didn't make the top ten, and Jimmie Foxx's 1932 season(.364/58 HRs/169 RBI/151 Runs) didn't make it, how can any of May's or Robinson's make it?

Aaron, Mays and Robinson had some great seasons, just not all-time great seasons.

 

[Don Wassall]

The Top 9 Hitting Seasons were:

1. Babe Ruth 1921
2. Ted Williams 1941
3. Barry Bonds 2001
4. Rogers Hornsby 1922
5. Ty Cobb 1911
6. Mickey Mantle 1956
7. Lou Gehrig 1927
8. Honus Wagner 1908
9. Mike Piazza 1997

Piazza had a tremendous '97 season, maybe the best ever by a catcher, but Larry Walker was even better that year -- .366 BA, 49 HR, 130 RBI, 143 runs scored, 46 doubles, 33 SB, .452 OBP, .720 slugging average. That may have been the best all-around season by any batter since the heyday of the lively ball in the days of Hack Wilson, Jimmy Foxx, Ruth, et. al.


It's a shame Walker couldn't stay healthy because he would have been an all-time great. 1997 was the only time in his career he played in more than 142 games. He was a helluva fielder too, winning 7 Gold Gloves.

 

[bigunreal]

That top ten rookie season list is quite "diverse." Jackie Roosevelt Robinson, as the odious Howard Cosell always used to refer to him, is perhaps the overrated baseball player in history. I'm sure the political prejudices of those who compiled this list didn't influence them whatsoever. The idea that his rookie season was the best ever is absurd, but then we are now living a true Obamanation, and this is Don King's America.

I agree with GWTJ- Mays, Aaron and Robinson were all consistently good for many years, but never really had "great" seasons to compare with the best of Ruth, Cobb, Foxx, Williams, Musial, etc. As GWTJ also noted, Hack Wilson and Foxx both had seasons that put to shame anything that black triumverate ever produced.

 

[Gary]

How could anybody in there right mind have Jackie Robinson over Ted Williams on any hitting list?

 

[sport historian]

How could anybody in there right mind have Jackie Robinson over Ted Williams on any hitting list?

Robinson was ahead of Williams on the rookie list, not the hitting list.

 

[Gary]

How could anybody in there right mind have Jackie Robinson ahead of Ted Williams on ANY type of baseball list. Williams was simply better then Robinson!!!!Edited by: Gary

 

[sport historian]

Any top ten list will bring on the arguments but the truth is that the blacks who are at the top of the career lists did it through longevity. Aaron, Mays and Frank Robinson never had a top ten year.

I am actually struggling to come up with a black other than Bonds who did have a top ten year.

Maybe Rice had a good year. Foster hit 50 HR's once. Carew batted .388 once. That's about it.

I don't know about that. Mays won 2 MVP's 1954 and 1965 and led the NL in most significant catagories those years and of course he was a 5 tool player. Frank Robinson won the triple crown in 1966-the numbers might not look that great but it was a down era for hitters, and he had another MVP season in 1962. I would rank both of their best years above Bonds.

In 1954, Willie Mays had around 35 home runs at the end of July. He shortened his swing and raised his average to .345, his highest which led the league that year. He also had 41 home runs.

Mickey Mantle's 1956 Triple Crown numbers were 52 HR, 130 RBI, and a .353 average. Mays had better career numbers than Mantle, but Mantle's two best year's (1956 and 1961) were better than Mays had.

Frank Robinson and Carl Yazstremski won Triple Crowns in 1966 and 1967. This was in a poor era for hitters and they did more for their teams than some players who had numbers that looked better on paper. Frank Robinson's best hitting season was with Cincinnati in 1962 with 39 HR, 136 RBI, 51 doubles, 134 runs scored, and a .342 average.

Hank Aaron had many years with around 39-45 HR with an average well over .300, which added up over the long run. I always thought that Frank Robinson at his best was a litle better than Aaron. Robinson tended to injure himself on the bases and running into fences.

I would take any of these players at their best over Barry Bonds without steriods.

 

[Bart]

The Top 9 Rookie Seasons were:

1. Jackie Robinson 1947
2. Ted Williams1939
3. Albert Pujols2001
4. Fernando Valenzuela 1981
5. Fred Lynn1975
6. Ichiro Suzuki2001
7. Joe DiMaggio1936
8. Dwight Gooden1984
9. Mike Piazza1993

I do not know why Fernando Valenzuela is on that list. According to the record book he pitched the year before, not a lot of games, but he was 2-0 for the Dodgers.


Okay, so he was 13-7 in 1981 with an ERA of 2.48, which was under the league ERA of 3.35.For the hell of it I checked the ( genuine) rookie season of Mark Fydrich. He was 19-9 in 1976,had an ERA of 2.34, which was well under the league ERA of 3.70.What gives? Edited by: Bart

 

[jaxvid]

I do not know why Fernando Valenzuela is on that list.  

To fill the hispanic quota.

BTW I remember every game of Mark Fidrych's season that year. He was a true sensation. What a fun guy to watch. The animated way he was on the mound, the way he talked to the ball, there really has never been anything like him. He was truly unique and all the more so because he only really pitched one year due to injury. If you were going to pick great rookie seasons that would have to be one of them.

I also remember Fred Lynn's rookie season well, he also won the MVP that year, if there ever was a guy that seemed destined for the Hall of Fame it was him, injuries did him in but he was the "Natural" personified, that guy could really play the game.Edited by: jaxvid