The troll makes a point...HWs then&now.

[White_Savage]

The troll did make one good point...George Foreman is about the only HW from his era who could compete with the modern crop. Foreman destroyed the guy who broke Ali (Frasier won twice IMO) and was only defeated by Ali because his low I.Q. allowed Ali to destroy him mentally. Which is not to say George would be champ today, Vlad has beaten big Blacks who punch just as hard and probably have more speed and skill, but a prime Foreman could at least compete.

Let's put aside myth or romance. The modern HW is bigger and stronger and more scientifically trained than ever before. Very few of the old timers could stand up to them. Jim Jeffries had the physical tools to go far probably, Jack "Giant Killer" Dempsey could maybe make it into contendership. But most HW champs of the past would have to fight as cruisers or LHWs these days.

It is bogus that the HW division is smeared as "weak" partly because these athletic behemoths aren't always moving like lightweights. FOR THEIR SIZE, many of them, Wlad in particular, display amazing speed, agility, and stamina. The reason we have weight classes is because speed and stamina DOESN'T overcome size, beyond a certain point. Dempsey, Louis, and Ali were all very fast, but all of them would get hammered down by Wlad Klitscko's power and reach. And never forget that when Blacks came to dominate the HW division in the 60s, they tended to be bigger and taller than their White counterparts. People who dominated by being 210-220 pounders mostly fighting guys who weighed 185-195 have nothing to complain about if 230+ lbs Russians suddenly take the division from them.

 

[jaxvid]

I was looking some stuff up on Jerry Quarry and found out that he was never knocked out and that he never fought at a weight over 200 lbs. Amazing! Most shortstops weigh over 200 now and Quarry, a quality heavyweight never weighed more. Wikipedia says he was the inspiration for the cruiserweight class. Also I noted that most of his loses were stoppages due to cuts. This seemed a frequent problem of white heavyweights of that era. However that doesn't seem to happen as much anymore. Is anyone aware of any advances in treating cuts or skin prep that could explain why the Eastern Europeans rarely lose to blacks due to bleeding?

 

[Charles Martel]

Interesting question - Byrd cut Povetkin with a head butt, but it stopped bleeding when it was treated between rounds. Holyfield cut Ibragimov in the second round, but he didn't bleed much after that.

Sometimes one just needs to know how to deal with an incoming head butt. I remember Bika tried to cut Bute with his head (like he did more successfully against Calzaghe), but he ended up getting the worst of it himself. The worst cuts are usually from head butts, and many black fighters like Hopkins are very good at such dirty tactics. The trick is to slam one's head into the rim of the bone that surrounds the eye.

 

[Don Wassall]

And never forget that when Blacks came to dominate the HW division in the 60s, they tended to be bigger and taller than their White counterparts.

Also they usually hadvery notablereach advantages.

 

[Guest]

Lewis beat Vitali by cuts. I think that there is a very good chance that Lewis' gloves were fixed. Vitali had never even been cut before, in the amateurs or the pros - and a lot of Lewis' wins were very suspicious.

Too true about Gerry Quarry. He should have been Cruiserweight champ. Boxing badly needs more heavy weight divisions, another thing I've been going on about for years. Right now there is essentially no place in boxing for a man who weighs just over 200, unless he is willing to give up a big weight handicap - in the case of a Valuev, that handicap could be over 100 pounds! And meanwhile the lighter weight classes are seperated by an absurd three pounds.

As for headbutting and cutting, poltically incorrect though it is, and shocking to the metrosexual ear though it might be, the Negro skull and the Negro skin are considerably thicker than that of humans. Nature is politically incorrect.




ww

 

[Guest]

The last thing boxing needs is more classes. Again, 1 gallon of water = 8 pounds.

There are several boxers who easily go back and forth between heavy and cruiser.

The lack of basic boxing knowledge around here is huge.

 

[White Shogun]

The lack of basic boxing knowledge around here is huge.

According to you, no one around here knows anything. Not about boxing, mixed martial arts, offensive linemen, or even football in general.

It's so nice of you to stick around and share your profound knowledge with the rest of us ignoramuses. I don't know how we'd ever manage to figure out anything without you leading the way.

 

[Charles Martel]

The lack of basic boxing knowledge around here is huge.

The one who lacks basic boxing knowledge here is you, Nevada. You recently posted that the only good white boxer in the US is Brian Minto. If you think unified Middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik isn't a good fighter, then you're an idiot.

 

[Don Wassall]

The lack of basic boxing knowledge around here is huge.

This from the genius who still hasn't figured out that threads about individual football playersand teams are to be started in the appropriate team forum, not the NFL forum.

 

[Tired old White]

the fewer cuts may also be a matter o the referees becoming better. If a white fighter is cut you have red blood against red skins, a noticeable contrast, if a black fighter is cut you have red blood against usually some shade of brown when will blend in with then blood.I think the referees have learned to evaulute this difference over the years and not stop the fight too soon. And I think the refs are getting better at detecting head butts except when they are not suppose to because the powers that be have preference for who wins.

 

[freedom1]

Good point, Tired old white. The lighter the skin, the more the contrast.

 

[White_Savage]

It is you who have apparently never heard the old axiom that "A good big man beats a good small man Nevada."

Sure, there are smaller HWs who can beat alot of their less talented opposition. Ibragimov for instance. But I don't see him beating Wlad.

Boxing doesn't need more weight classes on the lighter end, thats certain. No one with a lick of sense thinks a 200 pounder fighting a guy who weighs a trim 240 is completely fair, though.

BTW, Nevada, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you're the same Negrophilliac who used to post under a different name, alwaying mentioning how much time you spend in Vegas. I believe your argument then was that Whites dominate MMA because Blacks go in for the higher boxing paychecks. Now that Whites completely dominate boxing, I suppose you've had to come up with anoter line of anti-White agitprop.

 

[Guest]

Boxing clearly needs LESS weight classes on the lower end, and a few more on the higher end - and boxing also clearly needs less BS alphabet things and in your face gangsters, like Don King.




ww

 

[white is right]

The problem with eliminating the redundant divisions is that Asian and Latino promoters would lose their business if you eliminated 105, 115, 122 and a few other divisions. So they will never be eliminated. Eventually boxing will get a super cruiserweight division as the chances of another 200-210 fighter winning a belt and holding on to long are nearly impossible these days. Chris Byrd was life and death with every large heavyweight and you could argue he never really beat any.

 

[Guest]

What is this nonsense of boxing having more weight divisions. This is the reason why there are so many "champs" in boxing. Alot of these fighters once they win a belt, fight marginal foes and avoid the other champs. Case in point, the heavyweight division. There are four or more claiming to be the champ. Hopefully Wlad will finally consolidate the HW title. I believe that boxing should go back to the 50's and have the original 8 divisions. It makes creates less titles and better and more discliplined fighters.

Who really cares about the cruiserweight division? No one, it should be abolished. No hall of famer will ever fight the majority of his fights at this division. This is just a scheme to create another "championship" and take hard earned money from dumb boxing fans.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Wladimir Klitschko has been knocked out 3 times.

All to smaller men.(Although most boxers are smaller than him)

Once to Ross PurittyTKO 11
Once to Corrie Sanders KO 2
Once to Lamon Brewster TKO 5

(None of these guys are Hall Of Fame fighters)

He's been knocked down 11 times I believe in his career & seeing him get knocked down from a SHOULDER punch by Sam Peter & eventually knocked down 3 times in that fight, I'm sorry but bigger doesn't neccessarily mean better, & I'm not all that impressed with Wladimir.

I've seen Wlad on queer street way too easily dating back to his amatuer days even. I must say IMO, Jack Dempsey in his prime would have bum rushed him getting inside & beaten the living hell outta Klit. Klit doesn't fight well at all when guys get inside on him, the thing is most guys taste a couple of his shots from a distance & don't want to take anymore of his pop in order to get inside & quit trying, Jack Dempsey would get inside on ANY fighter that ever lived.

Edited by: Doc Holliday

 

[white is right]

Only Lamon would be classified as a small heavyweight and that would be his height not his girth. Both Sanders and Ross Purrity are large heavyweights. Wlad has learned how to tactically hold now so he could slow down a Dempsey by holding and leaning on him. The Wlad that lost to Sanders could lose to Dempsey and other bob and weavers too. I don't think Wlad is nearly as good as the prime Vitali because of his chin issues.

 

[White Shogun]

I think Wlad was drugged in his fight against Lamon anyway. Anyone who watched that fight objectively can't say otherwise.

 

[dkr77]

Corrie Sanders is one of the biggest punchers in the heavyweight division so I see no shame in that loss. Purity and Brewster were a result of fatigue more than anything else. Look at Sam Peter getting knocked down several times by Jameel McCline and he certainly isn't known for his punching power. When men this large mix it up there is always potential for someone to go down regardless of how good of a chin you have. Todays heavyweights are a much more powerful, destructive force then their peers of the past. If you doubt me just take a look at Lennox Lewis utter destruction of the supposedly invincible "Iron" Mike Tyson.

 

[Guest]

I think Wlad was drugged in his fight against Lamon anyway. Anyone who watched that fight objectively can't say otherwise.

Yes, I think so, too. There were so many mysterious elements - that disappearing water bottle, the disappeared hospital test records, Wlad's sudden unprecedented collapse after totally dominating the fight. And this all appears to have been swept under the rug now, like almost all of the crookedness in the dirty boxing business. The gangsters are careful not to leave paper trails.



ww

 

[reclaimsocal]

I'll admit, I've never participated in a combat sport unless JR High Wrestling counts, but why do they allow so much time between the weigh-in and the fight? Seeing these guys drop a bunch of weight, then put a bunch back on before the fight always seemed kind of strange to me. Why not have the weigh in like 4 hours before the fight instead of 24 or whatever it is now? Seems like this would stop some of these 225 guys from fighting natural 205 guys and such (in MMA, as I'm not familiar with Boxing weight classes)

 

[nopictures]

I wonder how big mildenberger was, he always looked pretty small next to Ali :c

 

[Guest]

Seeing these guys drop a bunch of weight, then put a bunch back on before the fight always seemed kind of strange to me


_______________


I agree.


ww

 

[JD074]

What is this nonsense of boxing having more weight divisions. This is the reason why there are so many "champs" in boxing.

The reason there are so many champs is because there are multiple belts in each division.

Alot of these fighters once they win a belt, fight marginal foes and avoid the other champs.

I wish champs weren't removed from the rankings of other organizations, so that they could become mandatory challengers for other champs. (Or one belt per division would be fine, too.)

Who really cares about the cruiserweight division? No one, it should be abolished.

I do.

Adamek, Maccarinelli, Jirov, Huck... these are good fighters and I want to seem them fight. Why should smaller guys have to bulk up and fight giants like Wlad? I would like to see smaller HW's like Minto move down; this division should be loaded with talent. If people were less close-minded and set in their ways, maybe they would see the value in fighters this size. Edited by: JD074