Super affletic black corners?

[seattlefan]

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2012/nfl-combine-results.cfm?sort=FortyTime&pos=CB

This link is to the performances for the 2012 combine for corners. All of them are black. Check out some of those numbers. Corner is the position white are most shut out from playing. Even in college, there are very few white corners.

There were 36 black corners that performed at the combine, and we can assume these 36 were the best of the nearly all black corner rosters of the 120 fbs teams. This must mean that the rest of them that did not get combine invites were not much better. There were 15 of those 36 who ran 4.6 or worse.

 

[FootballDad]

Just glancing at the list, towards the top (sorted by 40 time) is Dwight Bentley, who carries a 3rd round grade. If he were white, despite his 40 time, he would be laughed out of any draft consideration and given all of the "whiteboy euphemisms". 13 reps on the bench? 4.5 short shuttle? 12.11 60-yard shuttle? 31.5" vertical? 9'6" broad jump? Weak, tight-hipped, unexplosive, no hops, etc. etc. I guess having dark skin makes him look quicker, stronger, and more explosive than he is, and, ultimately, that's all that matters in the caste system.

 

[JOHNNY REB]

I know of a white 15 year old whose numbers are close to or better than that.

 

[Don Wassall]

More of them ran 4.66 or higher than ran under 4.50. 4.66 excludes a White player not just from playing cornerback in the NFL, but also safety, wide receiver and running back.

 

[FootballDad]

For the guys on the list of "cornerbacks", who are supposedly the "fastest" guys in the NFL, these guys would struggle to be drafted at LINEBACKER if they were white, but many will be.....

Micah Pellerin	Hampton	4.61	14	33.0				9'8 Projected UDFA
Trumaine Johnson	Montana	4.61	19	35.5	7.20	4.15	11.68	10'2 Projected 3rd round
Antwuan Reed	Pittsburgh	4.63	14	36.5		4.20		10'4 Projected UDFA
Charles Brown	North Carolina	4.63	18	35.5	6.94	4.06	11.56	9'6 Projected UDFA
De'Andre Presley	Appalachian St	4.64	8	32.0	7.19	4.28		9'6 No info linked
Mike Harris	Florida State	4.64	14	36.0	6.79	4.19	11.90	9'10 Projected 5th round
Josh Norman	Coastal Carolina	4.66	14	33.0	7.09	4.23		10'4 Projected 3rd round (!)
Robert Blanton	Notre Dame	4.66	12					Projected 5th round
Antonio Fenelus	Wisconsin	4.68	20	32.0	6.80	4.20	11.79	9'1 Projected UDFA
Ryan Steed	Furman	4.68	12	34.0	6.94	4.22		10'1 Projected UDFA
Cliff Harris	Oregon	4.68		36.0	6.81	4.07	11.28	9'9 Projected 4th round
R.J. Blanton	Notre Dame	4.70	12	34.0	6.71	3.97	11.28	9'8 No info linked
Leonard Johnson	Iowa State	4.71	15	32.0	6.96	4.15	11.40	10'0 Projected 5th round
De'Quan Menzie	Alabama	4.74		33.0				9'8 No info linked
D'Anton Lynn	Penn State	4.77	17	31.5				9'3 Projected UDFA

 

[Don Wassall]

http://www.castefootball.us/archives/black-cornerbacks-becoming-slower-than-white-fullbacks/

 

[seattlefan]

Morris Claiborne(5'11, 188lbs) is considered a top 5 overall pick with a 4.50 40 yard dash and a 34.5 vert.

Dre Kirkpatrick(6'2, 186lbs) is listed as a first rounder by most mock draft writers with a 4.51 40 yard dash and a 35 inch vert.

For comparison, Luke Kuechly(6'3, 242lbs, LB) ran a 4.58 and jumped a 38 inch vert at 50+ pounds heavier.

 

[seattlefan]

Here's a list of every corner's 40 yard dash who took part in the combine from 2007-2011. This does not mean all of these players were drafted though:





2007 – 24 cornerbacks


Chris Houston – 4.32
Jonathan Wade – 4.36
Eric Wright – 4.36
Leon Hall - 4.39
Marcus McCauley – 4.39
Josh Wilson - 4.39
Kenny Scott – 4.39
Anthony Arline - 4.43
Travarous Bain - 4.43
David Irons - 4.44
Aaron Ross - 4.44
Bo Smith - 4.44
Tarell Brown - 4.45
Fred Bennett - 4.46
Ryan Smith - 4.51
Michael Coe - 4.53
Reggie Lewis - 4.54
Duane Coleman - 4.57
Trumaine McBride - 4.57
Brandon McDonald - 4.58
C.J. Wilson - 4.62
Daymeion Hughes - 4.65
Tyron Brackenridge - 4.67
Chaz Williams – 4.68




2008 – 30 cornerbacks


Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - 4.29
Tyvon Branch - 4.31
Justin King - 4.31
Orlando Scandrick - 4.32
Michael Grant - 4.37
Tracy Porter - 4.37
Terrence Wheatley - 4.37
Mike Jenkins - 4.38
Jonathan Wilhite - 4.38
Leodis McKelvin - 4.38
Zackary Bowman - 4.39
Antwaun Molden - 4.39
Wilrey Fontenot - 4.40
Patrick Lee - 4.41
Justin Tryon - 4.42
Charles Godfrey - 4.43
Jack Williams - 4.43
Aqib Talib - 4.44
Antoine Cason - 4.45
Terrell Thomas - 4.45
Darnell Terrell - 4.46
Marcus Walker - 4.46
Jonathan Zenon - 4.48
Trae Williams - 4.51
Chevis Jackson - 4.52
Justin McKinney - 4.53
Dwight Lowery - 4.54
Brandon Flowers - 4.55
DeJuan Tribble - 4.59
Brandon Sumrall - 4.60
Matterral Richardson - 4.64




2009 – 31 cornerbacks


Lardarius Webb - 4.35
Vontae Davis - 4.40
Brandon Hughes - 4.40
Darius Butler - 4.41
Sherrod Martin - 4.43
Christopher Owens - 4.44
Kevin Barnes - 4.45
Bradley Fletcher - 4.47
Alphonso Smith - 4.47
Keenan Lewis - 4.47
Asher Allen - 4.48
Don Carey - 4.49
Lydell Sargeant - 4.49
Bruce Johnson - 4.49
Domonique Johnson - 4.50
DeAngelo Smith - 4.50
Donald Washington - 4.50
Sean Smith - 4.50
Morgan Trent - 4.50
Malcolm Jenkins - 4.51
Ryan Mouton - 4.51
Jerraud Powers - 4.51
Captain Munnerlyn - 4.51
DeAndre Wright - 4.52
Ryan Palmer - 4.54
D.J. Moore - 4.56
Joe Burnett - 4.58
Cary Harris - 4.58
Jahi Word-Daniels - 4.59
Coye Francies - 4.63
Victor Harris – 4.68




2010 – 28 cornerbacks


Akwasi Owusu-Ansah - 4.32
Brandon Ghee - 4.37
David Pender - 4.37
Devin McCourty - 4.38
Kareem Jackson - 4.40
Kevin Thomas - 4.41
A.J. Jefferson - 4.42
Crezdon Butler - 4.43
Earl Thomas - 4.43
Chris Hawkins - 4.43
Kyle Wilson - 4.43
Chris Cook - 4.45
Dominique Franks - 4.46
Patrick Robinson - 4.46
Chris Chancellor - 4.49
Joshua Moore - 4.50
Jerome Murphy - 4.50
Trevard Lindley - 4.51
Joe Haden - 4.52
Amari Spievey - 4.52
Alterraun Verner - 4.52
Jamar Wall - 4.52
Perrish Cox - 4.58
Cornelius Brown - 4.59
Javier Arenas - 4.60
Syd'Quan Thompson - 4.62
Devin Ross - 4.64
Brian Jackson – 4.65




2011 – 34 cornerbacks


Demarcus Van Dyke - 4.25
Patrick Peterson - 4.31
Buster Skrine - 4.37
Prince Amukamara - 4.38
Chimdi Chekwa - 4.38
Ras-I Dowling - 4.40
Shareece Wright - 4.41
Curtis Marsh - 4.42
Jimmy Smith - 4.42
Brandon Hogan - 4.43
Byron Maxwell - 4.43
Davon House - 4.44
Marcus Gilchrist - 4.45
Justin Rogers - 4.45
Brandon Harris - 4.46
Josh Thomas - 4.46
Chykie Brown - 4.49
Cortez Allen - 4.50
Brandyn Thompson - 4.50
Brandon Burton - 4.50
Curtis Brown - 4.51
Jalil Brown - 4.52
Rashad Carmichael - 4.53
Vance Cuff - 4.53
Niles Brinkley - 4.54
Richard Sherman - 4.54
Chris Rucker - 4.55
Aaron Williams - 4.55
Kevin Rutland - 4.58
Johnny Patrick - 4.59
Mario Butler - 4.65
Devon Torrence - 4.68
Kendric Burney - 4.71
Andrew McGee – 4.71




144 total through these 5 years.


34 out of 144 (24%) ran under 4.40 or faster
65 out of 144 (45%) ran 4.50 or slower
32 out of 144 (22%) ran 4.55 or slower
16 out of 144 (11%) ran 4.60 or slower

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

nice research, seattlefan. :thumb:

it should make intelligent folks wonder where the White corners are, but of course "intelligence" and "football fan" rarely seem to work at the same time in a human. even if said human is an otherwise smart guy ...

take for example, why was All-American cornerback Eric Weddle made into a safety? why was record-setting All-Big East cornerback Steve Gregory made into a strong safety? why was Jon McGraw and his 4.3 speed turned into a safety? why were BYU cornerbacks Brandon Heaney and Nate Soelberg (both the fastest cornerbacks in their respective draft classes) not even invited to an NFL camp? the list could go on and on.

the facts are there, but few are willing to actually look at them.

 

[jaxvid]

I just think the NFL wants to have the worst cornerbacks possible without it being too obvious. High passing numbers sell tickets. If you had a bunch of white guys in the defensive backfield you would have 10 times the interceptions and pass break ups, 5 times the tackles--very few long TD's. And almost no media attention from blatent violent criminal activity!!! The league would go under in a few years!!! What's wrong with you rayciss people!! Are you trying to kill the game???

 

[NDfootball06]

nice research, seattlefan. :thumb:

it should make intelligent folks wonder where the White corners are, but of course "intelligence" and "football fan" rarely seem to work at the same time in a human. even if said human is an otherwise smart guy ...

take for example, why was All-American cornerback Eric Weddle made into a safety? why was record-setting All-Big East cornerback Steve Gregory made into a strong safety? why was Jon McGraw and his 4.3 speed turned into a safety? why were BYU cornerbacks Brandon Heaney and Nate Soelberg (both the fastest cornerbacks in their respective draft classes) not even invited to an NFL camp? the list could go on and on.

the facts are there, but few are willing to actually look at them.

I wholeheartedly agree that a sizeable percentage of white athletes could play the cornerback position. However, being of the younger generation I grew up playing madden. Jon McGraw was consistantly rated as one of the slower safeties in the league. According to a google search, he ran a 4.5. That is a great time for someone his size and there are many black safeties that don't run that fast. I'm wondering where you get a 4.3 40 from?

 

[Deadlift]

Morris Claiborne(5'11, 188lbs) is considered a top 5 overall pick with a 4.50 40 yard dash and a 34.5 vert.

Dre Kirkpatrick(6'2, 186lbs) is listed as a first rounder by most mock draft writers with a 4.51 40 yard dash and a 35 inch vert.

For comparison, Luke Kuechly(6'3, 242lbs, LB) ran a 4.58 and jumped a 38 inch vert at 50+ pounds heavier.

Here is why Claiborne is considered a top 5 pick:

[video=youtube;4hzI2BCNyl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hzI2BCNyl8&feature=related[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0N68k1a9Y

McShay pointing out Claiborne's exceptional reach which aids him in making plays. Patrick Peterson only had 2 picks for the Arizona Cardinals last year as a rookie. Barring injury, Claiborne should be able to top that.

 

[dwid]

I wholeheartedly agree that a sizeable percentage of white athletes could play the cornerback position. However, being of the younger generation I grew up playing madden. Jon McGraw was consistantly rated as one of the slower safeties in the league. According to a google search, he ran a 4.5. That is a great time for someone his size and there are many black safeties that don't run that fast. I'm wondering where you get a 4.3 40 from?

He ran a 4.3 at his pro day.

 

[whiteathlete33]

He ran a 4.3 at his pro day.

Pro Days are almost always a .1 of a second faster than Combine times.

 

[dwid]

Pro Days are almost always a .1 of a second faster than Combine times.

yeah but usually not more than .15 so if he ran a 4.3 even Id say his average time is somewhere around 4.45-4.48. I still say Riley Cooper got into the sub 4.5 range and they rounded up to 4.5. McGraw's affletic cornerback teammate ran a 4.57 at the same combine, ben leber a 4.62. Yet Jon was at free safety...

The combine isn't totally electronic yet, only at the finish. This year they used full electronic testing from start to finish but didn't release the results to anyone, including teams. I think combine times are becoming more accurate and fans can't handle the fact that the college affletes they adore don't run 4.3's and 4.4's.

It would make it even harder to figure out what a player's speed is since many players (mostly White) aren't invited to the combine and run at pro days with varying conditions and different tracks.

 

[NDfootball06]

yeah but usually not more than .15 so if he ran a 4.3 even Id say his average time is somewhere around 4.45-4.48. I still say Riley Cooper got into the sub 4.5 range and they rounded up to 4.5. McGraw's affletic cornerback teammate ran a 4.57 at the same combine, ben leber a 4.62. Yet Jon was at free safety...

The combine isn't totally electronic yet, only at the finish. This year they used full electronic testing from start to finish but didn't release the results to anyone, including teams. I think combine times are becoming more accurate and fans can't handle the fact that the college affletes they adore don't run 4.3's and 4.4's.

It would make it even harder to figure out what a player's speed is since many players (mostly White) aren't invited to the combine and run at pro days with varying conditions and different tracks.

If we're going to use the combine 40 yard dash for black cornerbacks, I'd like to use the combine 40 yard dash for white players if available. Matt Jones has 4.3 speed. No one would argue with that. Can you imagine one of us going on a sports debate show at BSPN and saying Jon Mcgraw has 4.3 speed? They would laugh at us.
Maybe you guys remember Jon McGraw at Kansas State, but their website has him at free safety. He's also listed at 6'3", 208 lbs, which I believe would make him the tallest cornerback in the NFL, if he played there. It seems to me were barking up the wrong tree with this one. He was a second round pick and has a 9 year NFL career. Maybe he was moved to safety because that suits him better, not to discriminate against white football players.
Having said that, I fully believe a guy like Eric Weddle would have been a great talent at cornerback. So I do believe lazy stereotypes put him at safety. But he has the richest contract for a safety in NFL History anyway. :ranger:

 

[seattlefan]

McGraw ran a 4.50. I can't find any data for his pro day in 2002.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=59995&draftyear=2002&genpos=SS

Also of note are McGraw's vertical,3 cone and shuttle times. His 3 cone and shuttle are close to the all time records. I agree that his size/height may have put him more in the safety category.

 

[dwid]

McGraw ran a 4.50. I can't find any data for his pro day in 2002.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=59995&draftyear=2002&genpos=SS

Also of note are McGraw's vertical,3 cone and shuttle times. His 3 cone and shuttle are close to the all time records. I agree that his size/height may have put him more in the safety category.

I saw it in the archives with Jimmy Chitwood saying it, he is usually accurate with his info.

"a safety that should be getting more playingtime, but not at safety, is Jon McGraw. the guy is too small and too tough for his own good to play safety. that's why he's always hurt. but he ran a 4.3 on his pro day, and rumor has it that he actually has played corner in practice and looked outstanding. only his skin disease prevents him from making the switch. smileys/smiley11.gif"

I know that over the years our players times are changed and information can just go missing. I noticed Peyton Hillis had his time reduced after he became popular and with Dallas Clark as well, by finding an old SI article with times.

I get your point ND but I think we should list both for both black and White because of the way our guys are treated unfairly when it comes to times, plus many of our guys don't get invited to the combine. There is a site dedicated to providing measurables like 40 yard dash, when looking up McGraw it says "4.5 (combine)" and the SS below him is "4.43 (Pro Day)".

It seems like they go with a black's pro day time if they don't think its fast enough, or their unofficial nfl combine time, but with Whites they just list the slowest time they ran or at best an average of both times at the 40 for the combine (or pro day if no invite, Sharp was listed as 4.4something). With blacks, even the ones that do crack sub 4.5, they just list the fastest one instead of averaging them out.

at least things are looking up, found this when looking it up

"
backrow
10-13-2006, 02:19 PM

he will most likely be late second/early third rounder, which means he will be a freakin steal for a team that gets him (i prey for Bucs to take this guy and Leonard as well - reminiscent of Lynch and Alstott)...

as for white safeties in NFL it's a dying breed... we have stars: Lynch and Archuleta, Schweigert is almost there as well but after that? Kaesviharn plays with Bengals, Russell plays with Browns and that's about it for starters at the moment...
and there's not that many talented white back ups - Todd Johnson and Jon McGraw are playing some but not enough, they could easily be top safeties in the league...
Matt Giordano, Aaron Francisco, Sean Considine are getting some playing time but will they have a chance to actually start one day? Ethan Kilmer, Eric Smith play very little, even for rookies...
Nick Turnbull and Dustin Fox dwell on practice teams with few others...
Matt Bowen hasn't played this season, Kevin McCadam is getting screwed over in Carolina...

it's not too bright of a picture for white defensive backs..."


Looks like things have changed for the better since 2006 Giordano starts, Smith has gotten a ton of playing time. Leonhard, Weddle start etc.

as far as height, both Cromartie's are 6'2, Patrick Peterson is 6'2 as well. I believe there was a corner that was 6'4 playing, not sure if he is still in the league. Sean Smith and appears to be doing well I'll have to look him up to see how good he has been doing but i have to run and he is 6'3. Chitwood also says on that post that they put him at cornerback in practice and h looked good.

 

[NDfootball06]

I saw it in the archives with Jimmy Chitwood saying it, he is usually accurate with his info.

"a safety that should be getting more playingtime, but not at safety, is Jon McGraw. the guy is too small and too tough for his own good to play safety. that's why he's always hurt. but he ran a 4.3 on his pro day, and rumor has it that he actually has played corner in practice and looked outstanding. only his skin disease prevents him from making the switch. smileys/smiley11.gif"

I know that over the years our players times are changed and information can just go missing. I noticed Peyton Hillis had his time reduced after he became popular and with Dallas Clark as well, by finding an old SI article with times.

I get your point ND but I think we should list both for both black and White because of the way our guys are treated unfairly when it comes to times, plus many of our guys don't get invited to the combine. There is a site dedicated to providing measurables like 40 yard dash, when looking up McGraw it says "4.5 (combine)" and the SS below him is "4.43 (Pro Day)".

It seems like they go with a black's pro day time if they don't think its fast enough, or their unofficial nfl combine time, but with Whites they just list the slowest time they ran or at best an average of both times at the 40 for the combine (or pro day if no invite, Sharp was listed as 4.4something). With blacks, even the ones that do crack sub 4.5, they just list the fastest one instead of averaging them out.

at least things are looking up, found this when looking it up

"
backrow
10-13-2006, 02:19 PM

he will most likely be late second/early third rounder, which means he will be a freakin steal for a team that gets him (i prey for Bucs to take this guy and Leonard as well - reminiscent of Lynch and Alstott)...

as for white safeties in NFL it's a dying breed... we have stars: Lynch and Archuleta, Schweigert is almost there as well but after that? Kaesviharn plays with Bengals, Russell plays with Browns and that's about it for starters at the moment...
and there's not that many talented white back ups - Todd Johnson and Jon McGraw are playing some but not enough, they could easily be top safeties in the league...
Matt Giordano, Aaron Francisco, Sean Considine are getting some playing time but will they have a chance to actually start one day? Ethan Kilmer, Eric Smith play very little, even for rookies...
Nick Turnbull and Dustin Fox dwell on practice teams with few others...
Matt Bowen hasn't played this season, Kevin McCadam is getting screwed over in Carolina...

it's not too bright of a picture for white defensive backs..."


Looks like things have changed for the better since 2006 Giordano starts, Smith has gotten a ton of playing time. Leonhard, Weddle start etc.

as far as height, both Cromartie's are 6'2, I believe there was a corner drafted from Utah that was 6'4 I will have to look him up to see how he has been doing i have to leave for a bit. Chitwood also says on that post that they put him at cornerback in practice and h looked good.

I noticed this year with Blackmon once he ran I believe a 4.48 at his proday, everyone at ESPN was saying he had 4.4 speed. I'm fairly sure he did not want to show up with a time in the mid-high 4.5 range.
For safeties it is looking up. I'm high on Conte out on Chicago. I know in practice he was in some cornerback drills so who knows. I just want him on the field. You might be able to tell from the username but i'm expecting big things from Harrison Smith.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

I wholeheartedly agree that a sizeable percentage of white athletes could play the cornerback position. However, being of the younger generation I grew up playing madden. Jon McGraw was consistantly rated as one of the slower safeties in the league. According to a google search, he ran a 4.5. That is a great time for someone his size and there are many black safeties that don't run that fast. I'm wondering where you get a 4.3 40 from?

are you seriously using the speed ratings in a video game as a legitimate source? i don't know how to convey how stupid that is. hell, you contradict your "legitimate" source by saying, "(4.5) is a great time for his size and there are many black safeties that don't run that fast" while also saying, "McGraw was consistantly (sic) rated as one of the slower safeties in the league." which is it? i mean, really? pfft.

i got the 4.3 time from his Pro Day performance which was confirmed to me via email by multiple draft sites, including but not limited to the site i prefer: DraftDaddy. i hope that is good enough for you.

If we're going to use the combine 40 yard dash for black cornerbacks, I'd like to use the combine 40 yard dash for white players if available. Matt Jones has 4.3 speed. No one would argue with that. Can you imagine one of us going on a sports debate show at BSPN and saying Jon Mcgraw has 4.3 speed? They would laugh at us.

who is this "us" of which you speak? and all you have to do is watch old game tape and you can see McGraw's speed is clearly superior to most other players on the field. this is especially evident when he's on special teams, where he has spent a lot of time during his caste-plagued career.

Maybe you guys remember Jon McGraw at Kansas State, but their website has him at free safety. He's also listed at 6'3", 208 lbs, which I believe would make him the tallest cornerback in the NFL, if he played there. It seems to me were barking up the wrong tree with this one. He was a second round pick and has a 9 year NFL career. Maybe he was moved to safety because that suits him better, not to discriminate against white football players.

feel free to bark up whatever tree you wish to find. maybe McGraw should've been a big corner, especially considering various coaches and reporters over the years have raved about his man coverage ability during practice. one wonders why he's not had opportunities to showcase those skills during game situations. oh, i guess it's because he's tall. thanks for the insight. and he was only about 200 pounds or so coming out of college, as if that's important.

Having said that, I fully believe a guy like Eric Weddle would have been a great talent at cornerback. So I do believe lazy stereotypes put him at safety. But he has the richest contract for a safety in NFL History anyway. :ranger:

Weddle isn't the highest paid safety in NFL history, either. do you even bother to think or research things for yourself? or do you just repeat one ridiculous claim you stumble across after another? Weddle's 5-year $40-million contract with $19-million guaranteed isn't the richest for a safety in League history. it wasn't even the richest safety contract signed that year. hell, it wasn't even the richest contract for a safety in the AFC West.

before he ever played a single snap in the NFL, Eric Berry (KC Chiefs) signed a 6-year $60-million contract with $34-million guaranteed.

please, if you're going to disagree with me, at least be correct so that i may learn something. will you?

but, i suppose i should be polite and ask ... who would be better examples to use for White athletes who were screwed out of playing corner in the League? how about Jeremy Unertl? or Tony Lukins? or Josh Golden? or Hal Hula? i mean, there is an abundant pool of cast(e) aside talent to choose from.

lastly, if you are indeed a sincere new member of Caste Football, then welcome. but don't buy into the media's mantra of White athletic ineptitude. and certainly don't try and spout some nonsense and expect me to accept it. the facts speak for themselves, if you look hard enough to find them. and around here, most of us look pretty damn hard.

 

[Carolina Speed]

are you seriously using the speed ratings in a video game as a legitimate source? i don't know how to convey how stupid that is. hell, you contradict your "legitimate" source by saying, "(4.5) is a great time for his size and there are many black safeties that don't run that fast" while also saying, "McGraw was consistantly (sic) rated as one of the slower safeties in the league." which is it? i mean, really? pfft.

i got the 4.3 time from his Pro Day performance which was confirmed to me via email by multiple draft sites, including but not limited to the site i prefer: DraftDaddy. i hope that is good enough for you.



who is this "us" of which you speak? and all you have to do is watch old game tape and you can see McGraw's speed is clearly superior to most other players on the field. this is especially evident when he's on special teams, where he has spent a lot of time during his caste-plagued career.



feel free to bark up whatever tree you wish to find. maybe McGraw should've been a big corner, especially considering various coaches and reporters over the years have raved about his man coverage ability during practice. one wonders why he's not had opportunities to showcase those skills during game situations. oh, i guess it's because he's tall. thanks for the insight. and he was only about 200 pounds or so coming out of college, as if that's important.



Weddle isn't the highest paid safety in NFL history, either. do you even bother to think or research things for yourself? or do you just repeat one ridiculous claim you stumble across after another? Weddle's 5-year $40-million contract with $19-million guaranteed isn't the richest for a safety in League history. it wasn't even the richest safety contract signed that year. hell, it wasn't even the richest contract for a safety in the AFC West.

before he ever played a single snap in the NFL, Eric Berry (KC Chiefs) signed a 6-year $60-million contract with $34-million guaranteed.

please, if you're going to disagree with me, at least be correct so that i may learn something. will you?

but, i suppose i should be polite and ask ... who would be better examples to use for White athletes who were screwed out of playing corner in the League? how about Jeremy Unertl? or Tony Lukins? or Josh Golden? or Hal Hula? i mean, there is an abundant pool of cast(e) aside talent to choose from.

lastly, if you are indeed a sincere new member of Caste Football, then welcome. but don't buy into the media's mantra of White athletic ineptitude. and certainly don't try and spout some nonsense and expect me to accept it. the facts speak for themselves, if you look hard enough to find them. and around here, most of us look pretty damn hard.

Yeah, you really need to do your research, before throwing out numbers, but welcome aboard NDfootball06.

I've done alot of research on high-school athletes and 9 times out of 10 their numbers on their rivals page are not accurate with what I've seen live and in person or at legitimate laser time combines!

JC or anyone, speaking of research, are pro-day 40's done by laser(electronic) time or hand time? It seems that alot of guys throw out really good times at their pro-days!

Does anyone know for sure?

 

[dwid]

pretty sure they are hand timed. Ive heard people mention that scouts compare times and average it out or something, not sure about that and don't know where the reported times come from, because teams each use their own numbers. Proof that pro days are not always .1 faster is Chris Conte who ran .02 slower. Mike Hass only ran .01 faster, maybe they just ran on slow tracks, or maybe there was some sort of bias in timing them...Imagine them trying to write Hass off if he had ran a 4.49 (not too far off from Blackmon's 4.48) both similar, both a shad under 6'1, won awards for nation's best receiver, similar styles of playing.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Carolina Speed,

dwid is correct in that there are a variety of methods used at Pro Days, with a majority using hand-held stopwatches by area scouts. but even laser/electronic timing is faulty since it only effects the end of the sprint (at least usually). most all 40 times are begun based on the timer's reaction to the runner's start; it's not like a track time.

running surfaces/conditions are also wide-ranging. just a couple of extreme cases of which i'm aware:

1) at a Pro Day at BYU a few years ago, for some reason (work on the field perhaps?) the players actually had to run up/down an incline (yes, the players actually ran uphill and downhill!) and the times were "adjusted." how the heck do you correctly "adjust" a time for that?!?!

2) i forget the school, but due to a sudden rainstorm and no indoor practice facility available the players actually ran on a basketball court practice facility.

3) at a historically black college (Southern? i forget.), players actually were caught running a 38-yard 40. you can judge for yourself how this might have happened.

the number of Pro Days that are held with STRONG winds or rainy/cold conditions are also abundant, and those times are either "adjusted" somehow or are just left alone and as a consequence are poor.

typically, the bigger college programs run similar venues, with most colleges these days running on field turf. this is likely why these times are more trusted by "talent" "evaluators." others run on fast, hard track surfaces (like at Oregon), yet are somehow just as legitimate. it simply doesn't add up.

all in all, i find the 40 to be a nearly-useless barometer for football success, with many "slow" 40 runners being among the greatest to ever play the game (Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Wes Welker, etc.) and most elite sprinters being complete crap on the gridiron. if, though, things were to be codified (as with track times), it would at least make for better water cooler conversation.

 

[jaxvid]

I think you guys were a little hard on NDfootball06, I didn't get the feeling he was dissing anyone or trying to spread misinformation. There are a lot of statistics out there, and like Mark Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Lets give the newbies some slack, its good to have more input on the board even if it brings up some arguing back and forth.

 

[Don Wassall]

I think you guys were a little hard on NDfootball06, I didn't get the feeling he was dissing anyone or trying to spread misinformation. There are a lot of statistics out there, and like Mark Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Lets give the newbies some slack, its good to have more input on the board even if it brings up some arguing back and forth.

I agree. I haven't seen anything in his posts to indicate he's not a CF supporter.